Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification

[Pattaya46]

9 minutes ago, giddyup said:

If you are under 40 why does any of this concern or affect you? 

This also affect a lot of people married to a Thai, really many of them !

[Thaidream]

8 minutes ago, elviajero said:

What screws have been tightened?

 

It is very easy for anyone over 50, the spouse/parent of a Thai, or working to get a permit to stay year after year.

 

Your paranoia is messing with your head.

Agreed- The Australian Embassy will still issue the Letter until 7 Jan 2019- It is good for 6 months- that will work in the favor of many people plus in many locations apply 45 days early-others 30 days early.  If you fall in the time frame- you can get another extension using the letter and then take your time finding out the best way forward for your next extension. (The American cut off is Dec 31, 2018 ; while the UK cutoff is to get the request in by December 12, 2018)

[mfd101]

56 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Today I have contacted the Australian Attorney Generals Department who is the controlling body for the Government Statutory Declarations Act and have asked about who I can go to to have a Commonwealth of Australia Statutory Declaration signature witnessed if the notarial section of the Australian Embassy in Bangkok refuses to witness my signature. When I get a reply I will post it on here which I believe will not be before Monday or even Wednesday as everyone stops in Australia for a horse race called the Melbourne Cup which is run on Tuesday 6th.

Which rather puts us in our place as to Aussie priorities ...

 

Anyway, looking forward to the response from Canberra. The notion that you'll get anything of substance in less than 3 or 4 weeks is (I think) unrealistic. You may get a holding reply ("We have noted your letter/email and have these matters under consideration") or a get-stuffed reply ("Thank you for your correspondence on this matter. It has been drawn to the attention of the AG/Minister Assisting/relevant section") or a get-lost reply ("The relevant powers were delegated to the MFAT in 1967. How they are enforced/acted upon is a matter for the MFAT. Your correspondence has been drawn to the attention of his office").

 

But anything of substance would (I guess) involve consultation between AG's & DFAT & that could take weeks or months. They will be in no particular hurry. You wouldn't want them to get it wrong.

 

If you really want action, you need to make the matter a POLITICAL one for the Oz government (who are only a few weeks away from an election they are highly likely to lose). You should write to The Australian newspaper or contact their correspondent in Thailand - setting out THE FACTS of the matter as far as is currently known and pointing out the prospective EFFECTS on several thousand elderly & law-abiding Australians. Remember that, in the modern Western world, if you're not either a victim or a heros, you have no status and noone gives a damn. Good luck.

Edited November 3, 2018 by mfd101

[giddyup]

5 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

This also affect a lot of people married to a Thai, really many of them !

No mention of being either married or living permanently in Thailand by whitemouse. That is who my question was for.

[jimn]

1 hour ago, HappyAndRich said:

Still simple and easy. Out of the reason that you go back and forth during the year, I can understand that you do not want to automatically transfer money to Thailand every month. However, you must have enough to can set aside 3 x 65000 baht.

If you start transfer those 3 month before renewing your extension every year as well as you manually transfer 65K every month you are here. I will think Immigration would accept that. That way you have all your money in UK when you are there, and enough money in Thailand for getting your visa and to live here.

The 3 month you transferred for visa, you bring with you back home when you go back, and do the same procedure with the same money next time. Immigration never said you have to spend the money, only show that you have them.

If that is the case then fine. This could indeed be true, at this point in time everything is speculation without any clarification from Thai Immigration. However whilst it is true that the rule is 800,000 for the bank deposit method there is no guidence other then comments from the 3 embassies that bank transfers of 65k are acceptable. In fact the common belief from most posters is that people will need to show 12 x 65k transfers not 3  65k as you suggest. Great if thats the case but no one knows. Thanks for your comments.

[Russell17au]

13 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Which rather puts us in our place as to Aussie priorities ...

 

Anyway, looking forward to the response from Canberra. The notion that you'll get anything of substance in less than 3 or 4 weeks is (I think) unrealistic. You may get a holding reply ("We have noted your letter/email and have these matters under consideration") or a get-stuffed reply ("Thank you for your correspondence on this matter. It has been drawn to the attention of the AG/Minister Assisting/relevant section") or a get-lost reply ("The relevant powers were delegated to the MFAT in 1967. How they are enforced/acted upon is a matter for the MFAT. Your correspondence has been drawn to the attention of his office").

 

But anything of substance would (I guess) involve consultation between AG's & DFAT & that could take weeks or months. They will be in no particular hurry. You wouldn't want them to get it wrong.

 

If you really want action, you need to make the matter a POLITICAL one for the Oz government (who are only a few weeks away from an election they are highly likely to lose). Your should write to The Australian newspaper or contact their correspondent in Thailand - setting out THE FACTS of the matter as far as is currently known and pointing out the prospective EFFECTS on several thousand elderly & law-abiding Australians. Remember that, in the modern Western world, if you're not either a victim or a heros, you have no status and noone gives a damn. Good luck.

I will see what I get back.

There is still the option of Christian Porter (Attorney General), Brendan O'Connor (Shadow Attorney General), Marice Payne (Foreign Affairs) and Penny Wong (Shadow Foreign Affairs) and as this Australian Government is now a minority government with an election due by May 2019 anything is possible.

[Skeptic7]

OH Canada! You're on deck. ????

[cleverman]

47 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Which rather puts us in our place as to Aussie priorities ...

 

Anyway, looking forward to the response from Canberra. The notion that you'll get anything of substance in less than 3 or 4 weeks is (I think) unrealistic. You may get a holding reply ("We have noted your letter/email and have these matters under consideration") or a get-stuffed reply ("Thank you for your correspondence on this matter. It has been drawn to the attention of the AG/Minister Assisting/relevant section") or a get-lost reply ("The relevant powers were delegated to the MFAT in 1967. How they are enforced/acted upon is a matter for the MFAT. Your correspondence has been drawn to the attention of his office").

 

But anything of substance would (I guess) involve consultation between AG's & DFAT & that could take weeks or months. They will be in no particular hurry. You wouldn't want them to get it wrong.

 

If you really want action, you need to make the matter a POLITICAL one for the Oz government (who are only a few weeks away from an election they are highly likely to lose). You should write to The Australian newspaper or contact their correspondent in Thailand - setting out THE FACTS of the matter as far as is currently known and pointing out the prospective EFFECTS on several thousand elderly & law-abiding Australians. Remember that, in the modern Western world, if you're not either a victim or a heros, you have no status and noone gives a damn. Good luck.

Your spot on. As informative as TV is, it has no power. Weeks ago I suggested  people write to Bangkok Post instead of winging on here, only one person has.Kenyon did give it a passing mention too. 

[Sir Dude]

They are trying to get rid of as many expats as they can.

[brewsterbudgen]

They are trying to get rid of as many expats as they can.

What makes you think that? What does it have to do with the Australian Embassy no longer providing letters to verify income?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, Sir Dude said:

They are trying to get rid of as many expats as they can.

It's been said many times, but no one has given any reasons as to why they would do that.

[sfokevin]

2 hours ago, whitemouse said:

No! That is not the problem!

 

Person living on 45.000 THB can live in Thailand just fine. I'm not really retired, only spend 6 months of Europe winter here, and I spend less than 40.000 THB.

 

If people with 40.000 THB income are now kicked out, it's simply cruel. And stupid, but this is Thailand, do stupid suits it perfectly! I love, and I hate this country, now that my retired friends will very likely have to leave. This is very cruel, but very Thai! 

Cruel!... Really?..

How would a Thai fare visa wise trying to come and stay long term in your country?... 

[elviajero]

8 minutes ago, Sir Dude said:

They are trying to get rid of as many expats as they can.

No they are not.

 

They are simply asking the embassies to validate the income rather than issue a worthless letters/affidavits. You could argue they are trying to get rid of the frauds, but if they wanted to get rid of as many expats as they can they could simply stop issuing visas/permits.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, KenKadz said:

Thai Immigration is not asking for anything new, these regulations have been on the books for years.

The change is that Thai Immigration is asking the embassies that may have been verifying fraudulent document for years to be more diligent.

The onus is on the embassies for their years of possible fraud, and now that they can improve their relationship with Thai Immigration they have chosen to throw their citizens under the bus.

 

That's simply not true. Immigration IS asking for something new, not asking, but demanding that the various embassies somehow verify all the various income sources that their citizens may be receiving, something the embassies have no ability to do, especially for non-government pension income sources. How's my embassy going to verify the interest income I receive each month from this or that private bank?

 

And on top of that, Immigration also appears to be in effect changing the rules for the monthly income method of qualifying for extensions by now apparently beginning to require that the only income funds they'll accept are those deposited into Thai bank accounts. That's not a requirement that's anywhere in the law or in the current police orders, but that seems to be the path they're taking. That's absolutely new and 100% opposite of the current rules and system, that accepted all income, whether or not it came into Thailand.

 

[Russell17au]

20 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's simply not true. Immigration IS asking for something new, not asking, but demanding that the various embassies somehow verify all the various income sources that their citizens may be receiving, something the embassies have no ability to do, especially for non-government pension income sources. How's my embassy going to verify the interest income I receive each month from this or that private bank?

 

And on top of that, Immigration also appears to be in effect changing the rules for the monthly income method of qualifying for extensions by now apparently beginning to require that the only income funds they'll accept are those deposited into Thai bank accounts. That's not a requirement that's anywhere in the law or in the current police orders, but that seems to be the path they're taking. That's absolutely new and 100% opposite of the current rules and system, that accepted all income, whether or not it came into Thailand.

 

It is easy to verify your income via your tax assessment notice, this is a secured government document that cannot be altered and it shows what you taxable income is. All that is needed is for you to attach that document to you Stat Dec

[bearsamui]

6 hours ago, onera1961 said:

Bearsamui stated:

"I earn triple the monthly amount required but don't have the required funds in my thai account"

 

 

 

Wow 7,000 USD monthly income but no money in a Thai account. May be TI don't want people who want to hide their money. ????

Onera, what a stupid comment. Im not hiding my money, I just don't have it in a thai bank account.

Something I will have to do in the future I guess.

[wharria]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

Could you please confirm it was;

1. Multiple Entry;
2. from the London Thai Embassy;
3. you’re not receiving state pension.
4. And what supporting documents (financials) you provided.

I get my multi entry 'O' from the Thai Embassy by post for the past 4 or 5 years, previously I got this visa from the Thai Consulate in Hull until the consulates were stopped from issuing 'O' visas and can only issue tourist visas I also could pay with my debit card at Hull. I have shown Bank statements and also State Pension statement.

Are you implying I don't know what I am stating in my post, check with the London Thai Embassy website where all this information is. You can also download the visa application forms on this site.

[Russell17au]

30 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Try getting a visa to retire (or even a tourist visa) in my country, Australia by a Thai national, and I imagine that there are many countries that impose far harsher and more restrictive immigration practices than Thailand.

Sir Dude does not have any idea. There is no such thing in Australia as a retirement visa, a spouse visa can take up to 17 months for approval and it includes medical checks and police reports and the sponsor must show that they can financially capable of being able to support their spouse and with the medical checks and the police reports, even a child of the applicant who is not emigrating to Australia must have a medical check and a police report done. When the spouse visa does get approved then it is only temporary for 2 years then more paperwork must be done to change it to a permanent visa and the cost is AUD$7,000 (165,680baht) so if he wants reciprocal then Thailand needs to do away with the retirement extension and it should take up to 17 months to get a marriage extension and cost 165,680baht

[GroveHillWanderer]

6 hours ago, certacito said:

The letters as they are now would be fine, IF the embassies verified the income, (which they won't), immigration has not said that they won't accept letters.

As far as I can tell, the letters as they are now would not be fine. According to the embassies, Thai Immigration authorities now require something that shows the embassy has verified the person's income or bank balance. The current letters do not do that so they wouldn't meet the new requirements.

 

For instance, the instructions on the British Embassy's form for getting the letter clearly states that they do not check the amounts stated by the applicant. 

[Pattaya46]

41 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Immigration IS asking for something new, not asking, but demanding that the various embassies somehow verify all the various income sources that their citizens may be receiving, //

Whoa! You deduced all that from the only words "Thai Immigration wants us to verify your income" … 

 

44 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

something the embassies have no ability to do, especially for non-government pension income sources. 

Some embassies can. In some countries official notices can be verified online.

 

44 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

How's my embassy going to verify the interest income I receive each month from this or that private bank?

From the yearly Tax Notice? Don't you declare ALL your revenues in your country?

 

45 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Immigration also appears to be in effect changing the rules for the monthly income method of qualifying for extensions by now apparently beginning to require that the only income funds they'll accept are those deposited into Thai bank accounts. 

There is not even the beginning of a proof of that. Just negative speculation.

[elviajero]

8 minutes ago, wharria said:

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

Could you please confirm it was;

1. Multiple Entry;
2. from the London Thai Embassy;
3. you’re not receiving state pension.
4. And what supporting documents (financials) you provided.

I get my multi entry 'O' from the Thai Embassy by post for the past 4 or 5 years, previously I got this visa from the Thai Consulate in Hull until the consulates were stopped from issuing 'O' visas and can only issue tourist visas I also could pay with my debit card at Hull. I have shown Bank statements and also State Pension statement.

Are you implying I don't know what I am stating in my post, check with the London Thai Embassy website where all this information is. You can also download the visa application forms on this site.

No. I was trying to clarify that you are of state pension age. That is the reason why they will issue you with a non 'O' visa.

 

They will not issue a non 'O' visa to over 50's unless over state retirement age, which is what you were wrongly stating.

 

On 11/2/2018 at 6:47 AM,  wharria said: 

I travel back to the UK every year and obtain an multi entry  'O' visa, The requirements now are over 50 years of age and prove an income of £1200 per month or if over 65 you can show proof of a Government pension. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

8 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

From the yearly Tax Notice? Don't you declare ALL your revenues in your country?

For me personally, no I do not - I have been non-resident for tax purposes in the UK for over 35 years now and have never filed any income tax forms in the UK in my entire life. When I was working in the UK before I became an expat, my employer would deduct tax under the PAYE scheme (pay as you earn) but I have never filed for income tax purposes for myself.

Edited November 3, 2018 by GroveHillWanderer

[wharria]

3 minutes ago, elviajero said:

No. I was trying to clarify that you are of state pension age. That is the reason why they will issue you with a non 'O' visa.

 

They will not issue a non 'O' visa to over 50's unless over state retirement age, which is what you were wrongly stating.

 

On 11/2/2018 at 6:47 AM,  wharria said: 

I travel back to the UK every year and obtain an multi entry  'O' visa, The requirements now are over 50 years of age and prove an income of £1200 per month or if over 65 you can show proof of a Government pension. 

You talking a load of twaddle, Thailand is full farangs  giving misinformed/incorrect advice I have been getting multi entry 'O' visas for 14 years as I am 71 years of age and the state retirement age is 65 work it out use a calculator if needed. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

44 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

It is easy to verify your income via your tax assessment notice, this is a secured government document that cannot be altered and it shows what you taxable income is. All that is needed is for you to attach that document to you Stat Dec

 

Maybe it's different for Australians, but for Americans, it's perfectly possible to have significant sources of income that do NOT count toward one's taxable income, and don't get reflected in those figures on one's national tax return. It's the difference between taxable income and non-taxable income.

 

[ukrules]

14 minutes ago, wharria said:

You talking a load of twaddle, Thailand is full farangs  giving misinformed/incorrect advice I have been getting multi entry 'O' visas for 14 years as I am 71 years of age and the state retirement age is 65 work it out use a calculator if needed. 

To be fair, they have been moving the goalposts around over the last 4 or 5 years with regards to what they will or won't accept.

 

They've been tightening the screws so less people qualify so easily. What worked 14 years ago whilst in your 50's might not be so easy to do today during your 50's.

Edited November 3, 2018 by ukrules

[elviajero]

5 minutes ago, wharria said:

14 minutes ago, elviajero said:

No. I was trying to clarify that you are of state pension age. That is the reason why they will issue you with a non 'O' visa.

 

They will not issue a non 'O' visa to over 50's unless over state retirement age, which is what you were wrongly stating.

 

On 11/2/2018 at 6:47 AM,  wharria said: 

I travel back to the UK every year and obtain an multi entry  'O' visa, The requirements now are over 50 years of age and prove an income of £1200 per month or if over 65 you can show proof of a Government pension. 

You talking a load of twaddle, Thailand is full farangs  giving misinformed/incorrect advice I have been getting multi entry 'O' visas for 14 years as I am 71 years of age and the state retirement age is 65 work it out use a calculator if needed. 

Twaddle LOL!! They used to issue non 'O' to over 50's, but that was stopped. Now it's only state retirement age retirees, which is why you can still get one.

 

If over 50 and under state retirement age can only get a non 'O-A' or 'O-X' visa. This is from the London Embassy website:

"O"	To visit Thai spouse, children, parents, voluntary job, retirement (with State Pension)
"O-A"	For applicants aged 50 and over who wish to stay in Thailand for an extended period without the intention of working.
"O-X"	For applicants aged 50 and over who wish to stay in Thailand for an extended period without the intention of working, and who are nationals of of (1) Japan (2) Australia (3) Denmark (4) Finland (5) France (6) Germany (7) Italy (8) Netherlands (9) Norway (10) Sweden (11) Switzerland (12) United Kingdom (13) Canada (14) United States of America

 

You're never to old to learn!

 

[wharria]

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

To be fair, they have been moving the goalposts around over the last 4 or 5 years with regards to what they will or won't accept.

 

They've been tightening the screws so less people qualify so easily. What worked 14 years ago whilst in your 50's might not be so easy to do today during your 50's.

I only got my last visa in March 2018, as I stated check the Thai embassies website.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

35 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

There is not even the beginning of a proof of that. Just negative speculation.

 

Maybe you should re-read the OP info from the Australian Embassy at the top of this thread, as follows:

 

 

Which, BTW, pretty much parallels the public advice previously handed out by the British Embassy here:

 

 

So yes, let's wait and see what Immigration ultimately says officially, whenever they do. But in the meantime, the notion that they may be heading toward a "income must be deposited into Thai bank account scheme" is anything but negative speculation.

 

Edited November 3, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, wharria said:

You talking a load of twaddle, Thailand is full farangs  giving misinformed/incorrect advice I have been getting multi entry 'O' visas for 14 years as I am 71 years of age and the state retirement age is 65 work it out use a calculator if needed. 

The changed the requirements around 3 years ago. Before that you could get them for being over 50. 

[elviajero]

6 minutes ago, wharria said:

10 minutes ago, ukrules said:

To be fair, they have been moving the goalposts around over the last 4 or 5 years with regards to what they will or won't accept.

 

They've been tightening the screws so less people qualify so easily. What worked 14 years ago whilst in your 50's might not be so easy to do today during your 50's.

I only got my last visa in March 2018, as I stated check the Thai embassies website.

BECAUSE YOU ARE RECEIVING STATE PENSION.