Denied Entry at DMK with 60 day visa from Penang

[Duwanda Nunya]

My husband and I have been coming and going from Thailand for the past 4 years. We've had tourist visas on arrival, multiple entry visas, 60 day tourist visas, extensions, land crossing border runs...Vientiene by bus, Mae Sai by car, and flown in from various counties. We have never overstayed by even one day, as we are counting down to being 50 soon. We follow all rules and laws to a T and were denied entry at DMK at the end of October this year with 60 days visas we got in Penang. Well, I was denied entry, my husband had gone in a different line and got through without a snag. Later he was to join me rather than the other way around. This proves that the rules are not followed, the Officer has ultimate power and they will use it. Since we have never had any problems, we were not expecting any. We have since heard that Big Joke was making a name for himself and we were lucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. In 2018 we left in March, went to India and Bali for 6-7 weeks, then came back to Thailand for 3 weeks. Then we went to California and Guatemala for another 6 weeks. When we got back at the start of July we got 30 days visa on arrivals and extended for 30. Then we flew to Luang Prabang, stayed one night and came back and got new 30 day on arrivals which we then extended. At the end of October we flew to Penang and got the 60 day tourist visa approved. When were asking why they didn't let us in, they told us we have been in Thailand too much to be on tourist visas and need to leave for longer before coming back or (and better yet) come back with a long term visa. I pleaded for a warning, since I will be 50 on my next birthday, but it was clear that once they have you, they are not going to change their minds. Like a spider with a treat in their web they would be embarrassed to let their prey go. At first the officer asked where my boarding pass was and I honestly told her I had left it on the plane. She also asked if I had an exit ticket. I said I did, but had given all my paperwork to the Thai Consulate in Penang and since they approved my visa, I did not have a copy of it with me. At this point, after 30 seconds, she decided to call over a supervisor and pull me out of line. They wouldn't let me talk. They didn't ask many questions. They started making a file on my comings and goings. Said I had been in the country 600 days out of the last two years which was too much as a tourist. I don't think that number is correct, but you don't argue or talk back. They didn't ask about income or give me a chance to show any proof that I own a business and am not working. Their minds were made up. At this point we were sent into the main office and our pictures were taken to accompany the large files they had made on each of us. The supervisors were much nicer and told us we would have better luck at BKK and not to come back to DMK. She also said we were not blacklisted and could even come back as tourists without a problem in the future. They kept our passports (like we would try to make a run for it?). At first they said we had to leave Thailand and could not enter, but were vague and unclear as to what that entailed. Then an hour later they said we had to leave on the same airline (AirAsia) we came on, so we started looking for flight options. It seemed as though they were in cahoots with AirAsia and in the time we were there at least another 50 people from Air Asia flights were also brought in. At a minimum of $100 per new flight, immigration made AirAsia at least 5 grand that evening. Definitely seemed shady. Then another hour later they said we had to go back to the same airport we came from. It would have been nice if they had told us that to begin with. LIke they were making it up as they went along. At this point, there were no flights to Penang until the next day. They required us to purchase the return flight tickets immediately. It had been so many hours we were cooperating just in hopes of getting out of their hold. I wanted to use the toilet and get a bit to eat. But no, it went down hill from there. They treated us like criminals and told us we HAD TO stay in these little rooms that smelled bad and had no windows, one for females and one for males AND pay 800 bhat each for the pleasure. I was stressed, shocked, upset and angry and trying to keep my composure but this was past my threshold of what I could tolerate. I compared the room to a jail cell, and asked if we were being detained. They acted like they were kindly providing us with a hotel accommodation. But we could not leave the rooms, or even be together, we had to stay inside and be supervised by a desk guard...and our flight was 15 hours away. They even took my pens from me. Not sure if they thought I was going to graffiti the walls or attack them. After much conversation and a good excuse of a panic/anxiety attack due to claustrophobia, we got them to agree to let us sleep in the boarding gate area as long as we promised not to leave the designated spot. I have never been so happy to sleep on airport seats! The next day they still wouldn't release our passports to us and escorted through the airport. It was embarrassing and unpleasant . They then gave our passports to the ground transport people who gave them to the flight attendants, who promised once we left Thailand they would return them. This all seemed highly illegal to us. What would the US say about its citizens (who broke no laws or did anything wrong) being treated that way and their passports confiscated? But they did not return them once we took off. Instead, we were escorted us to the Penang Immigration once we landed, again being taken as if in custody, and gave our passports to them to deal with. We have never been treated like criminals and were quite unhappy throughout this experience. If we were not going to be allowed in, the Thai consulate in Penang should not have issued us the 60 day visa. This cost us much time, money and frustration. We are only NOW hoping to return to Thailand after a month in Bali and getting Volunteer Visas. Moral of the story, don't do quickee border runs through DMK or go through female officers lines. And always have your boarding pass, exit ticket, proof of funds, etc with you. Never assume they will follow the rules or that you know how its going to go. Had I just stood in the same line as my husband none of this would have happened.

[KneeDeep]

Quote

And always have your boarding pass, exit ticket, proof of funds, etc with you

Thanks for posting your story.

 

You aren't a newbie. This is why you suffered. 

You stated that they didn't give you a chance, but they did, according to your own statement. She asked to see your exit ticket and you couldn't show it. You just appeared full of excuses.

Most people would be able to show it on their phone.

I'm not an IO, but your actions would look dodgy even to me. They suspect long-stayers of working illegally, so have all of your paperwork in order and find another port of entry. 

 

To get a Multiple Entry Visa you would need to show the Embassy proof of your business and income anyway. But yet you are dependent on Tourist Visas and waivers.

 

So your story isn't coming together for them. Get a better one. ????

 

 

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, Duwanda Nunya said:

The supervisors were much nicer and told us we would have better luck at BKK and not to come back to DMK.

This is proof that they were deliberately denying you entry merely due to their personal discretion.

 

They told you that the immigration officers at BKK are not such c**** as they are.

 

Why are they doing this at DM airport and not so much as BKK ?

 

I would like to think you will tell this story to all available media far and wide, etc to make sure that people know they can be randomly denied entry for no apparent reason other than they feel like it.

 

It would be good to make Don Muang airport a 'paranoid no fly zone' for anyone who comes to Thailand more than once a year by getting the word out on this and see how the airlines operating there appreciate it.

 

How much do targeted facebook adverts cost I wonder?

[Maestro]

Someone else with a tourist visa was denied entry at DMK recently and posted about it here:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1069555-don-mueang-airport-problems-my-tourist-visa/

 

[Briggsy]

Any stamps in your passports?

[jacko45k]

It sounds like you didn't have most of the supporting paperwork required of you! Leaving boarding pass on plane, no exit ticket proof, Enough to make the guy suspicious. Better luck next time.

[ArickChaiyaphum]

What nationality!!

[ubonjoe]

40 minutes ago, ArickChaiyaphum said:

What nationality!!

From the OP.

6 hours ago, Duwanda Nunya said:

What would the US say about its citizens (who broke no laws or did anything wrong) being treated that way and their passports confiscated?

 

[mrwebb8825]

And yet, THIS is the country you are dying to retire in? Just saying. 

[pmarlin]

The OP is a good warning to those who abuse the system.

[CMBob]

Hard and fast immigration rules would help to stop the different treatment given to people in fairly identical situations (such as the OP and her husband); on the other hand, no country really has them as it seems each immigration officer has so-called "discretion."

 

While I'm sympathetic to the OP's situation, I am a bit puzzled as to the OP's statement that she didn't think the given officer's determination that the OP spent 600 days in Thailand was "correct."  Well, was it only 500 days (16+ months) or 400 days (13+ months)?  If I was an immigration officer and somebody coming in as a tourist had already spent 13-16 months in the country out of the last 24 months, it wouldn't take much for me to suspect the person wasn't a simple tourist.  I realize that the OP and her husband want to live in Thailand most of the year but, since they are not 50 yet, there simply isn't a Thai immigration law/rule that currently really allows that.

[Briggsy]

I like the bit about being locked in what is effectively a de facto holding cell and being charged 800 Baht for the room!! These officers are simply not accountable and can do what they like.

[JackThompson]

Very sorry to hear of your experience.  This is becoming more common, as a certain clique within Thai Immigration try to create as many "horror stories" as possible, to prevent Westerners from "sticking around" in Thailand.  They don't care if it undermines the jobs and opportunities our foreign-sourced spending creates for Thais.

 

Please ignore those who will post blaming you - as it is clear you violated no laws, and did not deserve what happened.  In that context, it is not necessary to have an exit-ticket to show when entering with a Tourist Visa - only when entering Visa-Exempt.  As well, a "boarding pass" is generally used "for boarding" (long since completed), so that request was just another "gotcha," used to create a false-rationale for initiating your rejected-entry.

 

7 hours ago, Duwanda Nunya said:

The supervisors were much nicer and told us we would have better luck at BKK and not to come back to DMK.

Don't believe it.  Both Bangkok airports are known to make up "unpublished rules" (number of days on Tourist entries), and deny entry to those with legitimate Visas. 

 

Your tourist-visas were still valid after they sent you back, so could still be used until the "enter before" date on them. The solution was/is to come by train through Pedang Besar from Penang, then fly-onward from Hat Yai airport (domestic - no immigration involved). 

 

We do not have reports of people being rejected-entry for "too many days" at any land-border points other than the Poipet/Aranyaprathet crossing.  Just be sure to have 20K Baht worth of cash or travelers checks (per person) to show as "pocket money," if asked.

 

I am sorry we could not help you with this information just after the incident occurred - or, better yet, warn to prevent your walking into that airport-immigration trap/gauntlet in the first place.

Edited November 23, 2018 by JackThompson

[3421abc]

Pathetic thai immigration. I don't know anyone who would come here to work illegally for a miserable salary. Oh yes many fangs would love to take the jobs from Thais. 

[BumGun]

So, moral of the story is don't take the piss by using a visa exemption when not a tourist ? You've been doing this for 2 years? But got a tourist Visa finally? Did you not at any time think you might be "bending the rules to breaking point"? Hell, I am concerned about doing it twice in an upcoming 3 month trip (side trips to Cambo and Myanmar but based in Thailand).. 2 years really is... suspicious ??

 

I am not sure about claiming some moral authority about how badly Thailand treats citizens of other nations, re the quip about the US. US Immigration seems tyrannical in comparison to Thai officials in that regard.

 

I thought a Visa wasn't a guarantee of entry, it's more like an invitation that you can show up at the door ? that right of refusal is left to the discretion of the immigration official? I'd be suspicious of your behaviour as well.

 

That said, I'd be pissy if I had a Visa and been refused entry, even though I understand they can.

 

 

 

 

[Pattaya46]

11 minutes ago, 3421abc said:

I don't know anyone who would come here to work illegally for a miserable salary. Oh yes many fangs would love to take the jobs from Thais. 

There are hundreds of guys in Pattaya alone who "own" and "manage" a bar even if still using some kind of Tourist Visa to stay here. There are hundreds farangs illegally working as Dive Instructor in the many Thai islands. Hundreds again working as guides for tourists of their country. Etc.

 

[KneeDeep]

8 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Very sorry to hear of your experience.  This is becoming more common, as a certain clique within Thai Immigration try to create as many "horror stories" as possible, to prevent Westerners from "sticking around" in Thailand.  They don't care if it undermines the jobs and opportunities our foreign-sourced spending creates for Thais.

 

Please ignore those who will post blaming you - as it is clear you violated no laws, and did not deserve what happened.  In that context, it is not necessary to have an exit-ticket to show when entering with a Tourist Visa - only when entering Visa-Exempt.  As well, a "boarding pass" is generally used "for boarding" (long since completed), so that request was just another "gotcha," used to create a false-rationale for initiating your rejected-entry.

 

Don't believe it.  Both Bangkok airports are known to make up "unpublished rules" (number of days on Tourist entries), and deny entry to those with legitimate Visas. 

 

Your tourist-visas were still valid after they sent you back, so could still be used until the "enter before" date on them. The solution was/is to come by train through Pedang Besar from Penang, then fly-onward from Hat Yai airport (domestic - no immigration involved). 

 

We do not have reports of people being rejected-entry for "too many days" at any land-border points other than the Poipet/Aranyaprathet crossing.  Just be sure to have 20K Baht worth of cash or travelers checks (per person) to show as "pocket money," if asked.

 

I am sorry we could not help you with this information just after the incident occurred - or, better yet, warn to prevent your walking into that airport-immigration trap/gauntlet in the first place.

 

 

Ignore us at your peril.

There are clearly stated laws that you should have the equivalent of 20,000 baht in cash. She did not have it. So please don't post nonsense about "violating no laws".

 

Most countries will state that entry is at the discretion of Immigration, even yours.

 

She was lackadaisical and suffered for her lack of preparation.

 

The reason why I'm writing this? I got pulled aside because I had visited for more than six months in one year. Perhaps, I didn't check. I spoke to the supervisor and he agreed to let me in, but advised that I should get another kind of visa.

But I am a tourist, no doubt.

So the next time I visited, I took my supporting documents, so when the IO questioned me, I had the supporting documents to show and she let me through.

 

Every now and again, these crackdowns happen, so be prepared. They aren't monsters, but they have to be seen to be doing their jobs.

By the sound of it, they gave her many opportunities to present supporting documents and she had none.

 

Seems that in all of her visits, she hadn't bothered to do her research. Coming here that often, she should have known about Prawit's man, BJ and the need to have supporting documentation on entry.

 

 

 

[warrima]

My last time at DMK there was a very similar case with a middle aged japanese gent in the queue just in front of me (ye i always seem to pick the wrong queue).

 

He seemed to have a passport full of tourist visa's and exemptions. I could hear the young female officer ask why he was staying so much in thailand as a tourist. He had quite broken english but i picked up that he basically had a thai girlfriend (wow who'd a thought)   and was essentially living here with her. She called her sup and my temptation to skip to the next queue was tempered by my nosiness to see how all this would play out :).

 

Quite dull in the end though. Our guy eventually pulled a plastic folder out of his backpack and upon rifling through it the sup found his bank statements, flight itinerary etc.  He Informed the officer to stamp him in and off he went. 

 

So ye ....just have yer paperwork!

 

 

[Media1]

Report these crooks to Big Joke. There scamming and should be fired. You can also talk. l talk always. Ask to record the interview to be transparent lol. Jokers

[DrJack54]

Horrible experience. Its bit of a surprise that you hadnt been "warned" on a previous entry. You mention "visa on arrival" .... Thinking your meaning visa exempt 30 day which you extended. Its too late now but an METV obtained in USA would of been good idea.

You haven't just left Thailand for few days but rather several weeks at a time. I'm really surprised this happened to you both. 

Some small things you mention are not fault of imm or airline. As I understand it they always fly you back to country you traveled from. I fly every week (don mueang) and most often the io asks for my boarding pass (yes the used one)

I think you very unlucky. Don't let it put you off. In a year you can obtain non o and then onto 12 month stays. Obtain a multi reentry permit and continue your love of travel. Good luck.

[Suradit69]

46 minutes ago, BumGun said:

I thought a Visa wasn't a guarantee of entry, it's more like an invitation that you can show up at the door ? that right of refusal is left to the discretion of the immigration official? I'd be suspicious of your behaviour as well.

Yes, many people seem to think the embassies that issue visas and immigrations are one in the same. While in most cases immigrations honors visas issued by Thai embassies, immigrations has access to far more information about the passport holder than do the embassies.

 

While embassies are responsible for weeding out those who may obviously not qualify for a visa, it is the immigrations officers who are given the discretion to make the ultimate decision. If they are being pressured from above to deny entry to people using tourist visas and visa exempt entries despite the amount of time spent in Thailand suggesting they are not tourists, then that's what they'll do. 

 

8 hours ago, Duwanda Nunya said:

my husband had gone in a different line and got through without a snag.

May not be relevant, but it seems odd. Why not stay together? I'm fairly sure family members can present their passports to be checked together at the same time.

[Pib]

 

Quote

They started making a file on my comings and goings. Said I had been in the country 600 days out of the last two years which was too much as a tourist. I don't think that number is correct, but you don't argue or talk back. 

600 days out of 730 days (2 years) is too much for a tourist. I can understand immigration looking at you very closely....flags being raised....sirens going off.

 

And the way you say "I don't think that number is correct" implies you don't disagree it was a lot of days...it just may not have been 600...could have been only approx 400.  Either way approx 400 to 600 days over 730 days via numerous entries doesn't support the "I'm just a tourist" response.   

 

 

 

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

There are hundreds of guys in Pattaya alone who "own" and "manage" a bar even if still using some kind of Tourist Visa to stay here. There are hundreds farangs illegally working as Dive Instructor in the many Thai islands. Hundreds again working as guides for tourists of their country. Etc.

 

Bars that wouldn't exist, that hire Thais, I presume?  But I doubt many of those owners don't get a Non-B Visa.  Arrests of those - even with a Non-B, but w/o a work-permit - for things like "greeting customers" are reported-events, so few would dare to do this.

 

"Dive Instructor" - easy to find, arrest, jail, deport, and ban. 

"Guides" - similarly easy to find, arrest, jail, deport, and ban.

 

"English Teacher" is likely the most common, due to the schools adamantly refusing to provide the proper paperwork.  This, combined with the low-salaries, has led to the employment of low-quality English instructors (fewer Westerners now) and poor results for Thailand.  They should use the Cambodian model as a guide, given its success there.

[CanuckThai]

B20 K in your pocket, is the Thai entry insurance policy.   It allows one to discretely smooth out any entry issues...  Not many posts about people having the 20K, and denied entry (just saying)

Edited November 23, 2018 by CanuckThai

[ubonjoe]

Some off topic and inflammatory posts have been removed.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, KneeDeep said:

There are clearly stated laws that you should have the equivalent of 20,000 baht in cash. She did not have it. So please don't post nonsense about "violating no laws".

I thought the report indicated money / finances never came up?  The IOs claimed the issue was "too many days" over years.  I did advise to carry the cash for entering at safer entry-points, though.

 

1 hour ago, KneeDeep said:

Most countries will state that entry is at the discretion of Immigration, even yours.

My country's laws on the reasons immigration can deny-entry differ from Thailand.  But given the very patterns of entry to my country, and what is possible for those who enter and fail to leave on-time (sanctuary cities), any comparison to Thailand is meaningless.

 

As to...

1 hour ago, KneeDeep said:

the need to have supporting documentation on entry. 

What documents do you carry, and suggest?  When I was using Tourist-Visas, I carried all but the kitchen-sink - bank-statements, proof-of-income, copies of degrees (showing I could take a Thai's job here if so inclined), etc.  But it never came up, because I didn't try to run the airport-gauntlets, and the entry-points I used always followed the published-rules. 

 

The only "made up" rule being reported at a land-border, other than Poipet, is staying out a night on visa exempt out/in trips.  Cash plus visa, and one should be OK.

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, CanuckThai said:

B20 K in your pocket, is the Thai entry insurance policy.   It allows one to discretely smooth out any entry issues...  Not many posts about people having the 20K, and denied entry (just saying)

It is a "must have" item, I agree - but there have been some cases reported of rejection with it.  Unless I am missing it, the 20K Baht did not come up with the OP.

[Media1]

2 hours ago, pmarlin said:

The OP is a good warning to those who abuse the system.

LOL spare us the rant

[ubonjoe]

34 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Some off topic and inflammatory posts have been removed.

And again. From now on there will be no notice made when posts have been removed.

[ParadiseLost]

39 minutes ago, CanuckThai said:

B20 K in your pocket, is the Thai entry insurance policy.   It allows one to discretely smooth out any entry issues...  Not many posts about people having the 20K, and denied entry (just saying)

That goes for all types of visa. A few years ago I was stopped at Sadao (with a non-o), and had to produce 20k. Silly me I only had 19k; true as bob they made me go and find an ATM to draw 1k...

 

When I returned they sent me upstairs to get a medical check! ...The doctor didn't know what to do so we sat and chatted for a while - he enjoyed the chance to use his English.

 

Sometimes it is just down to personal prejudice, if they don't like your face you are already losing ...I have an African country passport. I suspect the OP does not have US/UK/EU passport.