More paperwork needed at Hua Hin Immigration

[AhFarangJa]

O.K. I will begin by stating that I have always supported Hua Hin Immigration, I find them to be mostly Courteous and professional. I am writing this to advise any other members making the trip there soon of a couple of "apparent" changes by head office in Bangkok. This latest tale started last Thursday. Went to the office loaded with the requisite half tonne of paperwork, everything in duplicate, all presented neatly, in order to renew Retirement based on marriage. Lady Imm. officer takes said paperwork and begins to peruse through it. First, the photos, no good, now need show full body shot standing outside house with number AND all the house in background. Fast forward to inside pictures, no good, need to show legs and feet, and also most of the room behind you. OK, no problem. Then, we come to Marriage paper, photocopy of marriage paper, with the stamp on the reverse copied onto reverse....nooooo....need separate paper for front and back also same for Son's birth certificate. Anything else? .....No, you come back next week. Today we go in with new pics. and papers. I jokingly mentioned to Mrs. AFJ while waiting for them to open, I wonder what will be wrong today, only to be berated for being negative. So, we sit down in front of her, she looks through paperwork and says Tabien Bahn no good, need copy of pages 1 and 18 on same page, and also copy of first blank page. Also, bank book no good now, need to put in another 100 Baht to get update. ( it was only done last Wednesday ) ALSO.....need receipt for internet in my name for one month. I dutifully grind my teeth in silent anger, and smile sweetly while asking her why she not say last week, to which I get zero response. We go home, get all the copies, and I also copy the Tabien Bahn in every conceivable combination of pages. Along with three months internet receipts, a trip to the bank, then back to the office. Believe it or not she tried to say she needed more pages of the tabien bahn, to which my wife produced the bundle, put them on the table, and said to her in Thai, my husband thought you may need more paper so take your pick. She was not happy, and proceeded to tell me that next time I need to put all the papers in the order in which they listed on the requirement form. So, I ask her to please tell me where should I put the receipts, and the extra House book pages in the pile, as they are not on the list. Big sense of humour failure, but she processed everything anyway. I also asked her to do my 90 day, and she took all the forms etc, ripped out my old 90 day. When my passport came back 10 minutes later, no 90 day paperwork......another 10 minute wait.

Sorry if this is a bit long winded, but as we were waiting for the second time to give her the extra papers she turned three other applicants away telling them to come back tomorrow with the correct papers. Hence my post. In short, anyone visiting Hua Hin to renew their one year in the near future, please remember to add the papers I mentioned above, it may just save you a wasted trip. As a footnote, when we were leaving with my passport stamped Mrs. AFJ said she thinks the ladies husband is not giving her enough......

[lovelomsak]

Sounds to me like she is waiting for the white envelope to be left  on the desk well you go the washroom.

[jimmjam]

this seems to be happening at a lot of immigrations, I had to go back twice to the immigration in nong khai with extra paperwork which was not needed before, they even wanted my land lord to come to immigration too, which she didn't. last time it took 15 minutes to get it done, this time it took 2 days.

[racyrick]

I am very curious as I have never heard of this before, why did you need to show an internet bill in your name?

[ukrules]

This is taking the piss, it's like they're trying to discourage people from getting extensions based on marriage, we know this to be true already.

 

Over the years it's become very obvious that they would much prefer to do a retirement extension, I guess it's a lot easier for them. With the changes coming to the embassy income letters I imagine there's going to be a lot of people who are married and currently using retirement extensions who will swap back to the marriage method - they won't like this one bit.

 

Did they try and encourage you to go down the retirement extension instead of the marriage extension at all ?

[cyberfarang]

8 minutes ago, ukrules said:

This is taking the piss, it's like they're trying to discourage people from getting extensions based on marriage, we know this to be true already.

 

Over the years it's become very obvious that they would much prefer to do a retirement extension, I guess it's a lot easier for them. With the changes coming to the embassy income letters I imagine there's going to be a lot of people who are married and currently using retirement extensions who will swap back to the marriage method - they won't like this one bit.

 

Did they try and encourage you to go down the retirement extension instead of the marriage extension at all ?

I think you`re right.

 

It seems Imm are trying to push the over 50s into having the 800000 baht retiree money in the bank option and preferably to use agencies.

 

 

[AhFarangJa]

19 minutes ago, ukrules said:

This is taking the piss, it's like they're trying to discourage people from getting extensions based on marriage, we know this to be true already.

 

Over the years it's become very obvious that they would much prefer to do a retirement extension, I guess it's a lot easier for them. With the changes coming to the embassy income letters I imagine there's going to be a lot of people who are married and currently using retirement extensions who will swap back to the marriage method - they won't like this one bit.

 

Did they try and encourage you to go down the retirement extension instead of the marriage extension at all ?

No, there was no coercing, no hint of an early xmas present, just a very officious lady ( I use the term lady very loosely ) who just seemed to be obnoxious. She even spoke to the other half in a curt boorish manner. I did say to the wife afterwards that is seems Thailand doesn't want us here.

[AhFarangJa]

24 minutes ago, racyrick said:

I am very curious as I have never heard of this before, why did you need to show an internet bill in your name?

The Tabian Bahn does not have my name on it, nor any name, but my signature is on page 18.  I do have a separate piece of paper that has my name as owning the house. I think it is called a TOR OR 5. It is issued and stamped by the Land Office. This was always acceptable for the last three years, but now this bill thing is needed too. I asked her what would happen if the internet was in my wife's name.........no answer was the immediate reply......the silence was deafening......

[owl sees all]

OP

 

O.K. I will begin by stating that I have always supported Hua Hin Immigration, I find them to be mostly Courteous and professional.

 

<snip> <snip>

 

As a footnote, when we were leaving with my passport stamped Mrs. AFJ said she thinks the ladies husband is not giving her enough.

 

+++

 

I had very similar at Udon Thani, when immigration was at the airport. The file - all 40 pages of it - sat on the IO's desk from 9 in the morning until 3-30. The IO would occasionally thumb through the file*. About 2 in the afternoon a lady** arrived with 30 or so passports in a cardboard box. They were taken into the back room and a couple of other IOs started sorting them before pulling the blinds.

 

At 3-30, with baby in arms (4 months old), i went to the desk to find out why the file was still sitting on the table. The lady picked up the file and said she would give me two weeks. When I came back in two weeks time I had to bring the head man from the village, unless he was a relative, in which case bring someone else. We took Hum next time, and they interviewed him. Everything OK; apart from me having to redraw the village.

 

Eventually got my 12 month visa based on marriage.

 

 

* The wife said that he was looking for money between the pages; whereupon he would have taken the file into the back room for quick processing.

 

** The lady agent I now use.

[kekalot]

guys, I am getting a headache just reading about this rubbish.

pictures showing legs?

drawing of the village.. ? lol

 

every time I read about this nonsense it makes me more happy with the Elite visa I got for 20 years.

[cyberfarang]

1 hour ago, AhFarangJa said:

The Tabian Bahn does not have my name on it, nor any name, but my signature is on page 18.  I do have a separate piece of paper that has my name as owning the house. I think it is called a TOR OR 5. It is issued and stamped by the Land Office. This was always acceptable for the last three years, but now this bill thing is needed too. I asked her what would happen if the internet was in my wife's name.........no answer was the immediate reply......the silence was deafening......

Let me take a stab in the dark here; you have bought land and a house in your Thai wife`s name without going through the proper channels for foreigners procuring land and property in Thailand.

 

The Tor 5 as you describe it is an evidence showing that the occupier of a plot of land has been issued a tax number and has paid tax for using and the benefit of the land. It appears that the officer wanted to establish some kind of documented proof that the land and house was purchased legitimately and evidence that you actually live there with your wife, because it fact as far as immigration are concerned your wife is your landlord if you don`t legally own the house and land.  I`m guessing this is why the officer made you jump through so many hoops.

 

Immigration are starting to get tough on these practices as for most of us that can tell immigration what they want to hear and show what they want to see have no problems.

[rjwill01]

1 hour ago, kekalot said:

guys, I am getting a headache just reading about this rubbish.

pictures showing legs?

drawing of the village.. ? lol

 

every time I read about this nonsense it makes me more happy with the Elite visa I got for 20 years.

For $60000 I will wait in line for my yearly.

[kekalot]

5 minutes ago, rjwill01 said:

For $60000 I will wait in line for my yearly.

what $60000? 20 years is 1m baht

 

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

This is taking the piss, it's like they're trying to discourage people from getting extensions based on marriage, we know this to be true already.

In some offices, they have separate personnel whose only job is to do family/marriage based extensions.  The policy seems to be, "this is hard - I want extra" - so they make life hell to drive more people to agents.  Agent-submitted applications are not only profitable, but also really easy to process, since most requirements are outright skipped, and the rest rubber-stamped.

 

2 hours ago, racyrick said:

I am very curious as I have never heard of this before, why did you need to show an internet bill in your name?

What she really meant was, "Why are you back here - didn't you get the message?  Go to an agent so I get my 10K Baht tip!!  I cannot possibly afford my lifestyle, without extorting a good percentage of you."

 

1 hour ago, AhFarangJa said:

She even spoke to the other half in a curt boorish manner. I did say to the wife afterwards that is seems Thailand doesn't want us here.

I would swear this was a Jomtien-office experience - exact same methods and attitude to us - treated like crap, for trying to do the right thing.  I think they hate the Thai wife for marrying us, even more than they hate us.

 

1 hour ago, AhFarangJa said:

The Tabian Bahn does not have my name on it, nor any name, but my signature is on page 18.  I do have a separate piece of paper that has my name as owning the house. I think it is called a TOR OR 5. It is issued and stamped by the Land Office. This was always acceptable for the last three years, but now this bill thing is needed too. I asked her what would happen if the internet was in my wife's name.........no answer was the immediate reply......the silence was deafening......

Ok - this sounds like a variation on exactly what Jomtien family-desk does.  If you rent, they ask for things from your landlord you cannot get - end of story.  But condo-owners reported being able to get their extensions, after the requisite 2 or 3 trips for more pictures, etc - as you described. 

 

But now, they are evidently not satisfied with the agent-revenue thus far, so are hitting farangs who own their condos, also - hence the 'internet bill' trick.  I can only assume these IOs trade-notes on how to extort us and punish our wives - probably via some phone-app.

[ubonjoe]

I have just removed several posts and replies to them to get it back on topic.

[Psychic]

So they didn't ask for a witness?

I'm a little surprised by this as Petchaburi did and they are mostly ex HH people. They said "new rule" last time and I have heard other offices doing the same.

 

The HH IO's were generally very nice with the exception of one man who genuinely seemed to the farangs.

 

The photo thing seems to be a perennial source of trouble.

 

They sent an IO to my house two years in a row to take photos with us, posing the question if why I needed photos in the first place.

 

First year the lady who clearly didn't want to be there because she was doing it on her own time said "change shirt inside and outside next year and I don't have to come."

 

The next year Petchaburi opened. The guy who came out said the wife also had to change her shirt.

 

Seemed to work as no visit last year. But, as mentioned, a witness needed.

 

I usually drop in a month or so before renewing to ask if there us anything new.

 

It doesn't seem to worth the effort. Two years ago I asked if I needed my income letter stamped from Chaeng Wattana...no only one time.

 

When I went to apply..."need stamp from Chaeng Wattana every year."

 

Last year, no mention of a witness's until I went with the application.

 

As I've mentioned before, they really should stop calling it THAI Immigration if every office can just make up their own rules.

 

It would take all of an hour, I'd think, for somebody in Bangkok to post a detailed list of requirements online that all offices were required to adhere to.

 

I can't imagine that list would include anything like the silliness being required at different offices.

 

 

[Moonlover]

15 hours ago, racyrick said:

I am very curious as I have never heard of this before, why did you need to show an internet bill in your name?

What on earth has the internet account got to do with an extension at all?

 

If it ever reached this stage of craziness up here in sleepy Sakon Nowhere, it would be 'toys out of the cot' and off to Savannakhet for me.

[MartinL]

The stories about photo requirements always amuse and confuse me.

 

I put my Marriage Extension renewal papers in to Khon Kaen immigration on 1st. November. I've never been quoted specific requirements - I just get information from places like this - so make my own interpretation and have done so for the last 9 years. They apparently want proof of a 'de facto' marriage so I give them things that show just that, along with the house & address photo - birthday celebrations, us at weddings, playing with the grandchildren, photos of us at tourist spots. What could better demonstrate a real relationship than shots of many different occasions, both mundane and special events? NEVER have I given the famous 'bedroom' shot. Photos of us around the house on one particular day prove absolutely nothing IMO, but then I'm not Thai or an IO.

 

Never had my photos questioned or rejected but KK Immi. seems to be among the best offices to have to deal with.

Edited November 27, 2018 by MartinL

[JackThompson]

30 minutes ago, Psychic said:

They sent an IO to my house two years in a row to take photos with us, posing the question if why I needed photos in the first place.

 

31 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

What on earth has the internet account got to do with an extension at all?

Exactly on both counts.  The point of the exercise is supposed to be to verify you have a real and ongoing "live-together" relationship with your Thai spouse at "X" location.  That is all.  End of story.

 

The only thing they can do to verify the legitimacy of your abode, as stated on your application, is show up and check it out.  This is why I have no objection at all to home-visits.  Since they are doing this (unless you use an agent), all the other "prove where you live" junk is completely unnecessary.  It's just harassment and encouragement to use agents, plain and simple. 

 

43 minutes ago, Psychic said:

So they didn't ask for a witness?

I'm a little surprised by this as Petchaburi did and they are mostly ex HH people. They said "new rule" last time and I have heard other offices doing the same.

Solution to this is to speak to neighbors during the home-visit.  Either they've seen you there together or they haven't.  A witness in the immigration-office could be paid-off, and not know the two of you at all.

[nickmondo]

I bet I know exactly what woman it was that gave you this ridiculous grief.

The fattest one!

I think she is the senior woman in there now.

The one that does not even look at you.

Ignorant cow.

Go to another officer and all will be ok.

Seriously, when I read stuff like your post, it makes we want to tell them to shove their country where the sun does not shine, and jump on a plane back to civilisation.

Good job they are not all like her.

[theprice01]

I extended my visa based on Marriage last month at HH, only thing that was missing was a print out stating that we are still married (not sure of the name of the document, from a big building on Route 37) . They overlooked the amount of photos we had as the same officer paid a visit to our house last year. 2 trays of donuts and 6 coffees seem to go down well... 

[slappy]

1 hour ago, MartinL said:

The stories about photo requirements always amuse and confuse me.

 

I put my Marriage Extension renewal papers in to Khon Kaen immigration on 1st. November. I've never been quoted specific requirements - I just get information from places like this - so make my own interpretation and have done so for the last 9 years. They apparently want proof of a 'de facto' marriage so I give them things that show just that, along with the house & address photo - birthday celebrations, us at weddings, playing with the grandchildren, photos of us at tourist spots. What could better demonstrate a real relationship than shots of many different occasions, both mundane and special events? NEVER have I given the famous 'bedroom' shot. Photos of us around the house on one particular day prove absolutely nothing IMO, but then I'm not Thai or an IO.

 

Never had my photos questioned or rejected but KK Immi. seems to be among the best offices to have to deal with.

Me too, been dealing with KK office for ten years now and never had a problem with them. Only sad part now, is that they are moving to a different area of KK. And it's further for me to travel.

[Baerboxer]

17 hours ago, jimmjam said:

this seems to be happening at a lot of immigrations, I had to go back twice to the immigration in nong khai with extra paperwork which was not needed before, they even wanted my land lord to come to immigration too, which she didn't. last time it took 15 minutes to get it done, this time it took 2 days.

 

I noticed that too. 90 day reporting taking longer, used to be 2 mins in and out. Also wanted lots of paperwork with the TM30 when coming home from abroad, never bothered before. 

 

It seems they are all nervous of making a mistake or being considered not thorough enough and so reverting to type by getting lots of extra paperwork to create a comfort zone.

 

They have a big sign up now showing the route map and time to get various things, extensions of stay, re-entry permits, etc etc. Present your passport, with the appropriate form, follow steps, 1 to x, pay and voila, 20-30 mins or less. Now where does it mention photocopies of documents, which ones are required, what order and what format. I guess that's the bit that's left up to the individual officers and their supervisors.

[billd766]

I did my 90 day report at Khampaeng Phet last Wednesday and it took me longer to find the place (they have moved offices 3 times in 4 years) than it did the 90 day report which was about 3 minutes,

 

I also asked them for their requirement for a marriage extension, but they only had it in Thai, so I took it anyway and downloaded an English language from TVF.

Edited November 27, 2018 by billd766
edited for bad spelling after I had posted it.

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, Moonlover said:

What on earth has the internet account got to do with an extension at all?

Proof of address? I usually use my telephone bill but of course for some internet same same.

[Ratt Thai]

18 hours ago, kekalot said:

guys, I am getting a headache just reading about this rubbish.

pictures showing legs?

drawing of the village.. ? lol

 

every time I read about this nonsense it makes me more happy with the Elite visa I got for 20 years.

I second that....

my guess? these "changes in paperwork" are far from over...

Mark my words...

[cyberfarang]

4 hours ago, Moonlover said:

What on earth has the internet account got to do with an extension at all?

 

If it ever reached this stage of craziness up here in sleepy Sakon Nowhere, it would be 'toys out of the cot' and off to Savannakhet for me.

Over the years it has become common knowledge that there are many marriages of convenience between foreigners and Thais for the purposes of property speculating, the running of businesses, criminal activities, human trafficking, drug cartels or to obtain visas for remaining in the country. There are Thai women that pay agencies to arrange marriages for them to westerners for the purposes of obtaining permanent visas to stay abroad. 

 

There are also cases where foreigners have separated from their Thai spouses, no longer living together or have never lived together, still using the address of the matrimonial home and pay their EXs to accompany them to immigration and continue using the Thai spouses addresses.

 

I have it on good word that soon immigration will be clamping down on westerners buying land, properties and running businesses in their Thai wives names without going via the correct procedures.

 

And these are some of the reasons why immigration are being so thorough now with yearly extension applicants. This has nothing to do with any particular officers attitudes, these stricter procedures are orders coming directly from the top. The days of when immigration would overlook many of the formalities and would stamp passports on face value if they considered an applicant appeared legit are over, the rules are going to be much more widely enforced from now on.

 

The only way is for yearly extension applicants to tell immigration what they want to hear and show them what they want to see, without the need for questions to be asked.

 

If not certain, it is advisable to use the services of a specialist Thai immigration lawyer or an agency to guide you through the process.

 

 

[JackThompson]

 

4 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Over the years it has become common knowledge that there are many marriages of convenience between foreigners and Thais for the purposes of property speculating, the running of businesses, criminal activities, human trafficking, drug cartels or to obtain visas for remaining in the country. There are Thai women that pay agencies to arrange marriages for them to westerners for the purposes of obtaining permanent visas to stay abroad.  

 

There are also cases where foreigners have separated from their Thai spouses, no longer living together or have never lived together, still using the address of the matrimonial home and pay their EXs to accompany them to immigration and continue using the Thai spouses addresses.

That is why they come and visit you at home, which is fine.  Extorting us via agents by making up requirements which are not published is a problem.

 

4 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

I have it on good word that soon immigration will be clamping down on westerners buying land, properties and running businesses in their Thai wives names without going via the correct procedures.

That is not immigration's job. And if it has somehow become their job, then they can publish the specific rules we need to meet, to assist them in their new enforcement-role.  That way, when we show up for an extension, all our papers are in order.  

 

4 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

And these are some of the reasons why immigration are being so thorough now with yearly extension applicants. This has nothing to do with any particular officers attitudes, these stricter procedures are orders coming directly from the top. The days of when immigration would overlook many of the formalities and would stamp passports on face value if they considered an applicant appeared legit are over, the rules are going to be much more widely enforced from now on.

You have it backwards.  They are ignoring the written rules, and making up fake-rules.  They only time they "skip" rules, is if you pay them off via an agent.  With that in mind, guess how the "bad guys" - the ones doing all you listed with fake-marriages are doing it.  Well, ...

 

4 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

If not certain, it is advisable to use the services of a specialist Thai immigration lawyer or an agency to guide you through the process. 

Yep.  That is exactly how the "bad guys" do all those things you listed.  They use agents, and all the "rules" become optional.  Of course, many good folks are now coerced to use agents, also - using harassment-techniques, as described above.

 

I 100% support the Thai law prohibiting foreigners from buying up land.  I've seen the damage done in other countries (including my own).  To the extent this occurs, the ability to "buy off" authorities with lawyers and agents is a primary contributor.

 

4 hours ago, Ratt Thai said:

23 hours ago, kekalot said:

every time I read about this nonsense it makes me more happy with the Elite visa I got for 20 years.

I second that....

my guess? these "changes in paperwork" are far from over...

Mark my words...

Yes, that "elite" money is another powerful incentive to make legitimate in-person applications difficult.

[Psychic]

4 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

 

 

I have it on good word that soon immigration will be clamping down on westerners buying land, properties and running businesses in their Thai wives names without going via the correct procedures.....

 

And these are some of the reasons why immigration are being so thorough now with yearly extension applicants. This has nothing to do with any particular officers attitudes, these stricter procedures are orders coming directly from the top. The days of when immigration would overlook many of the formalities and would stamp passports on face value if they considered an applicant appeared legit are over, the rules are going to be much more widely enforced from now on.

 

The only way is for yearly extension applicants to tell immigration what they want to hear and show them what they want to see, without the need for questions to be asked.

 

If not certain, it is advisable to use the services of a specialist Thai immigration lawyer or an agency to guide you through the process.

 

 

Oh pray tell us your sources.

 

If they are that influential perhaps you can pass on my previous request that a specific list of highly detailed requirements be posted online so we poor, uneducated aliens can peruse it at our leisure and not be forced to pay money to an agent.

 

And maybe you could pass on that these requirements be universally applied in every office.

 

Also, since we are cracking down maybe immigration officials receiving money and the agents who pay them will be subject to investigation and criminal charges.

 

Just saying since there seem to be many people breaking the law in your world.

 

I don't know what world you inhabit but all the farangs I know who gave money to their Thai spouses to buy land immediately relinquished title to those lands as required under Thai law.

Seems like a really stupid way to cheat the system.

 

 

 

 

[theprice01]

I would never use an agency to obtain my visa...it's a visa, not rocket science. 

This year i'll have to go down the route of savings in a Thai bank account...cross the T's, dot the I's and you'll get your visa. ????