Extreme Brexit could be worse than financial crisis for UK: BoE

[tebee]

The land of milk and honey promised by the Vote Leave campaign in 2016 has turned into a nightmare.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/opinion/brexit-negotiations-england-eu-deadline.html

 

It has come down to this with a few weeks to go until the March 29 deadline for Britain to leave the European Union, as it voted to do almost three years ago: a jumble of jargon, jousting and gibberish, with everyone sucked into the vortex of confusion, to the exclusion of every other issue in the world. Britain’s biggest political parties are splintering, and there is clarity only on the fact that nobody has a clue what is about to happen.

 

 

 

So much for the panacea offered in 2016 by leaders of the Vote Leave campaign — a land of milk and honey in which an island liberated from European shackles would become “Global Britain,” money would flow, impetigo would be cured, children would become more beautiful, the soil more bountiful, and the world Britain’s oyster. These days, the fantasy has sagged into a mumbled, “Well, Brexit is not the end of the world.

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

This are the weights from the batteries

BMW i3

60 Ah 233 Kg
94 Ah 256 Kg
120 Ah 274 Kg

BMW indicates the maximum range with 260km with the largest battery.

Battery charge time is 45 minutes for 80% power. 

As a city car to the way to / from work already very good. However, you should have your own garage for loading.

 

The 120 i3 is indicated with 1345 kilos total weight.

Battery weight is then 20,37% of the total vehicle weight

All of the current vehicles are small and short range. Fine for a "city car" but no replacement for mainstream. We need a new "high energy density" battery technology. The battery weights you quote are based on 60Ah or 120Ah battery blocks? You don't say how many of each. A 60Ah battery won't get you far if it's just 6 cells!

 

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/i3/first-drive

 

Just found this, which explains all!

 

The 120Ah. Is misleading as it does not give the voltage. The article says the stored energy is about 45kWh which tells all.

 

This is why we are talking tiny, short range cars.

 

We need 10x the energy density

 

Otherwise these cars are massively energy inefficient. We will be wasting huge amounts of energy to lug batteries at 100km/h for 100s of kms

 

Electric cars ARE the way to go but battery technology is not there yet.

 

(oh, and the charger is 50kW - 217A single phase or 72A three phase to charge the battery in 45 mins. That's twice as much as an average house!)

Edited February 24, 2019 by Grouse

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

Any photos of the girls available? Maybe the question could then be answered.

Available photos or available girls? 

[talahtnut]

10 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

Sorry that is wrong.

 

1. formula 1 is still one of the major sources of innovation for the automotive industry

 

2. EU consumers will be able to opt for standard mobile phone charger from 2017. The European Parliament voted in Strasbourg on a corresponding bill from. Manufacturers such as Nokia, Sony, Apple, Motorola and Samsung have within three years to bring a unified plug for mobile phones, tablets and smartphones on the market.

 

3 it is just an idea.

You do not have to buy it.

Have a nice evening.

Indeed there is plenty of room for engine and fuel

development, add to that, reduce engine size.

What is this desire to buy a 150 mph family car, or

a 6 litre twin turbo charged super death box?

The end result being millions of speed bumps.

Go figure.

 

 

 

 

[vogie]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

Vogie, you don't have to argue about everything!

 

I agree that electric cars are the way to go.

 

However, batteries are not good enough yet. Energy density is not high enough yet.

 

The example above shows state of the art is 42.5kWh weighs about 285kg

 

Typical car will require about 10x that density 

 

Current (sic) big problems are

 

Energy density

Charging rate

Infrastructure

 

I'll wait for a great British Breakthrough

 

What do you infer from AA? Most of us would prefer B or even C!

I was having a bit of fun, do remember when you were younger and used to have fun, did you even watch the video?

[dick dasterdly]

12 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

I could easily have sourced material from numerous pro-Brexit sources. But my discovery of two lefty, progressive rags had banged the Brexit drum so enthusiastically following the shock referendum result was simply too mouth-watering not to share. 

 

Of course, they have since seen the folly of their ways and shuffled back shamefaced into the Remainer ranks. But their brief flirtation with edotorial objectivity was fun while it lasted.

 

Just another indication of the unreliability of the mass media, from which - let's face it - we all cherry-pick sometimes to support our arguments.

 

If interpreting this as a "Yes" to your question will help you sleep tonight, then be my guest!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for the above post.

 

I feel the same way.  It's easy to find arguments that support our view in MSM outlets with the same opinion as ourselves, so there's no point.

 

Far more interesting to read articles from pro remain (or leave) outlets that have a different POV from their current 'stance'.

 

Edit - perhaps those of you interested in the current car technology could move your posts elsewhere.  It has precisely zero to do with this thread.

Edited February 24, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[wilcopops]

if you thought Honda leaving UK had nothing to do with Brexit then read this........

[CharlieH]

Reported off topic posts/responses removed.

[7by7]

17 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

I could easily have sourced material from numerous pro-Brexit sources. But my discovery of two lefty, progressive rags had banged the Brexit drum so enthusiastically following the shock referendum result was simply too mouth-watering not to share. 

 

Of course, they have since seen the folly of their ways and shuffled back shamefaced into the Remainer ranks. But their brief flirtation with edotorial objectivity was fun while it lasted.

 

Just another indication of the unreliability of the mass media, from which - let's face it - we all cherry-pick sometimes to support our arguments.

 

If interpreting this as a "Yes" to your question will help you sleep tonight, then be my guest!

 

5 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Thank you for the above post.

 

I feel the same way.  It's easy to find arguments that support our view in MSM outlets with the same opinion as ourselves, so there's no point.

 

Far more interesting to read articles from pro remain (or leave) outlets that have a different POV from their current 'stance'.

 

Edit - perhaps those of you interested in the current car technology could move your posts elsewhere.  It has precisely zero to do with this thread.

 If one approaches the media with an open mind one will find that, apart from sources such as The Sun and Mirror, the media do publish articles and opinions from both sides, and have done since the referendum was first announced.

 

For example, from yesterday's Guardian: Brexit: Rudd, Clark and Gauke should resign, says Andrew Bridgen. Read the whole article and you will see that while it is anti a no deal Brexit, it is not anti Brexit per se.

 

Dick Dastardly has shown on many occasions that she has such an open mind; despite her opening comment above. But she does seem to be in a small minority amongst the Brexiteers here.

 

As for myself; yes, of course I use articles which support my view. But those articles could be from any source. I don't make ridiculous comments about them 'seeing the folly of their ways' and 'brief flirtation(s) with editorial objectivity' simply because they previously published something I agreed with and have now published something with which I did disagree!

 

BTW, why do certain Brexiteers always accuse Remainers of being 'lefty?' As anyone paying attention here in the UK can tell you, Remainers, like Brexiteers, come from the left, the right and the centre.

Edited February 24, 2019 by 7by7
Addendum

[melvinmelvin]

12 hours ago, Grouse said:

All of the current vehicles are small and short range. Fine for a "city car" but no replacement for mainstream. We need a new "high energy density" battery technology. The battery weights you quote are based on 60Ah or 120Ah battery blocks? You don't say how many of each. A 60Ah battery won't get you far if it's just 6 cells!

 

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/i3/first-drive

 

Just found this, which explains all!

 

The 120Ah. Is misleading as it does not give the voltage. The article says the stored energy is about 45kWh which tells all.

 

This is why we are talking tiny, short range cars.

 

We need 10x the energy density

 

Otherwise these cars are massively energy inefficient. We will be wasting huge amounts of energy to lug batteries at 100km/h for 100s of kms

 

Electric cars ARE the way to go but battery technology is not there yet.

 

(oh, and the charger is 50kW - 217A single phase or 72A three phase to charge the battery in 45 mins. That's twice as much as an average house!)

must say I am not into volt-amp vehicles

but I frequently read in Norwegian msm about va cars (SUVs) having a range of 400-500 km,

not so bad

 

feedback systems/charge while rolling - need to be developed

the big highways in Germany/Switzerland/northern Italy/northeast France are suitable

(and I am sure also many other long distance through roads)

some pantograph style device must be developed so va cars can clamp on to the road railings

and charge while cruising at 130 km/hour, then you get long haul va cars

 

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

must say I am not into volt-amp vehicles

but I frequently read in Norwegian msm about va cars (SUVs) having a range of 400-500 km,

not so bad

 

feedback systems/charge while rolling - need to be developed

the big highways in Germany/Switzerland/northern Italy/northeast France are suitable

(and I am sure also many other long distance through roads)

some pantograph style device must be developed so va cars can clamp on to the road railings

and charge while cruising at 130 km/hour, then you get long haul va cars

 

Nurse!

[welovesundaysatspace]

https://www.indy100.com/article/julia-hartley-brewer-border-crossing-free-movement-brexit-skiing-europe-8794226

 

Is this the same nutjob Brexiteers like to post here? I currently can’t decide whether I want to cry or lol about how stupid that chick is. Brexiteers really do make for good comedy material. 

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

https://www.indy100.com/article/julia-hartley-brewer-border-crossing-free-movement-brexit-skiing-europe-8794226

 

Is this the same nutjob Brexiteers like to post here? I currently can’t decide whether I want to cry or lol about how stupid that chick is. Brexiteers really do make for good comedy material. 

What is the gist of that story ?

I just kept reading the same tweets over and over again .

What actually happened ?

[welovesundaysatspace]

Just now, sanemax said:

What is the gist of that story ?

I just kept reading the same tweets over and over again .

What actually happened ?

Read it. Makes for a good laugh and shows you the level of intelligence the average Brexiteer has. And those people got a say in the biggest policy decision in the UK’s history. 

[tebee]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

What is the gist of that story ?

I just kept reading the same tweets over and over again .

What actually happened ?

She pointed out how easy it was to drive from the EU into Switzerland, totally missing the point they are in Schengen which provides free movement of people but not goods.

Try doing the same thing with an artic of farm produce or even with 4kg of beef in your back pocket.

Edited February 24, 2019 by tebee

[evadgib]

Mr Spock talking to Farage :

 

 

[billd766]

23 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

François Englert and Peter Higgs for the theoretical development of the Higgs mechanism got the Nobel Prize for Physics 2013

 

I find the idea of a standardized underfloor battery box interesting.

1.50 m long x 0.80 m wide x 0.25 m high. or what size ever.

I drive to the gas station when the battery is almost empty. I drive over an exchange shaft, press a Button and the empty battery box is removed. 1 minute later, the full battery box is nicked in and i can continue my e ride for some other 100 kms.

 

The market size of the EU would make it possible to introduce such a system EU wide.

 

 

But what will it cost you to swap the batteries?

 

Pennies, pounds, hundreds or thousands of pounds?

 

If you swap a knackered set for some now ones, you will gain and somebody else will lose.

[aright]

54 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Read it. Makes for a good laugh and shows you the level of intelligence the average Brexiteer has. And those people got a say in the biggest policy decision in the UK’s history. 

The nature of Remainers who regard themselves as the epitome of enlightenment and intelligence is of course shown by the extraordinary nature of the arguments they use. Most voters did not know what they were voting for; older voters have no right to an equal democratic voice; working class voters were too ignorant to make a choice and people without advanced education should have their political rights reduced.

All arguments, of course, designed to discredit and potentially overturn a democratic process and for some an opportunity to show their contempt for the UK.

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

18 minutes ago, aright said:

The nature of Remainers who regard themselves as the epitome of enlightenment and intelligence is of course shown by the extraordinary nature of the arguments they use. Most voters did not know what they were voting for; older voters have no right to an equal democratic voice; working class voters were too ignorant to make a choice and people without advanced education should have their political rights reduced.

All arguments, of course, designed to discredit and potentially overturn a democratic process and for some an opportunity to show their contempt for the UK.

Not sure what your point is. A Brexiteer was making a fool out of herself. People are having a good laugh. As so often. 

 

There’s a simple solution: Just don’t post nonsense. No one forced her to take stupidity her to Twitter for the whole world to see. 

 

I really don’t have an issue with uneducated or stupid people. I call some of them my friends. The difference is, they’re not going on the Internet and make a fool out of themselves. They leave that to the Brexiteers. 

Edited February 24, 2019 by welovesundaysatspace

[tomacht8]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

But what will it cost you to swap the batteries?

 

Pennies, pounds, hundreds or thousands of pounds?

 

If you swap a knackered set for some now ones, you will gain and somebody else will lose.

There are many points to consider.
Unfortunately, I do not have the time to calculate that exactly.
Only as a rough estimate:
 

Original price of the battery 7000 Euros
1000 times loading capacity
Range 250 km with one filling
Total range / battery life 250,000 km
Depreciation then 7 Euros per refilling.
Profit on the investment 3 Euros per refilling

plus

At an average price of 24Cent per KWh hour a tank filling (250km) would cost about € 9,09 (0.24Cent x the 37,9 kWh of the battery).
Plus
insurance fee for the battery 1 Euro per filling

Net cost of operation for 1 refilling around 20 Euros.
Or 8 Euros for 100 km

Plus investment costs for a quick change station plus storage capacity for the batteries plus staff costs, if the whole does not run fully automatically.
(All 3 positions would have to be divided by the number of tank / change processes.)
But today the petrol stations earn mainly with their affiliated supermarkets.

You practically buy such a battery by subscription or a form of leasing.
The battery can be insured against breakage.
Of course, the big gas station chains like Shell, etc. check the batteries for their correct condition.
The housing for the battery box are identical for all batteries.
Of course, over time, when battery development is improved, you can have more power within the standard size.
Just as if you use regular gasoline, Super or Ultra.

But you're right, to completely think through such a concept and to calculate it takes a lot of time.
But the big petrol station companies like Shell could easily realize such an investment on the capital side.
First of all, only a coarse network would have to be set up first.
It is currently similar to the network for vehicles with gas LPG systems (in Europe).
 

Edited February 24, 2019 by tomacht8

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, aright said:

The nature of Remainers who regard themselves as the epitome of enlightenment and intelligence is of course shown by the extraordinary nature of the arguments they use. Most voters did not know what they were voting for; older voters have no right to an equal democratic voice; working class voters were too ignorant to make a choice and people without advanced education should have their political rights reduced.

All arguments, of course, designed to discredit and potentially overturn a democratic process and for some an opportunity to show their contempt for the UK.

Arguments brought to you from the guys who wanted Royal Prerogative in place of Parliamentary decision making.

[aright]

8 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Arguments brought to you from the guys who wanted Royal Prerogative in place of Parliamentary decision making.

I'm very pleased with parliamentary decision making

Didn't 80% of MP's vote to trigger article 50?

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, aright said:

I'm very pleased with parliamentary decision making

Didn't 80% of MP's vote to trigger article 50?

We hope that Hard Brexiteers will be equally as pleased if Soft Brexit is passed by Parliament.

[tebee]

4 hours ago, sanemax said:

What is the gist of that story ?

I just kept reading the same tweets over and over again .

What actually happened ?

Another good explanation of why this is so incredibly stupid.

 

 

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.

 

[sandyf]

8 hours ago, aright said:

I'm very pleased with parliamentary decision making

Didn't 80% of MP's vote to trigger article 50?

The Referendum Bill was flawed from day one and as they voted for it they were never going to admit they got it wrong.

Time has moved on and reality has proved how severe the flaws were but feel free to think that 80% of MP's would vote for anything on brexit.

[Loiner]

We hope that Hard Brexiteers will be equally as pleased if Soft Brexit is passed by Parliament.

Parliament also voted 432 against and 202 for her last BRINO agreement.
What do you think her new soft brexit will look like? It will have to be very different to change those numbers.
With her new delay announced yesterday, with only 33 days to go, a meaningful vote on 12 March is cutting it very fine. Unless she has pulled a rabbit out of the hat, it could slip nicely into No Deal exit.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Parliament also voted 432 against and 202 for her last BRINO agreement.
What do you think her new soft brexit will look like? It will have to be very different to change those numbers.
With her new delay announced yesterday, with only 33 days to go, a meaningful vote on 12 March is cutting it very fine. Unless she has pulled a rabbit out of the hat, it could slip nicely into No Deal exit.

While the can is in play and can be kicked down the road, no majority for anything in Parliament right now. So some odds in favour of delay. If there is a delay Hard Brexit is finished and Sterling will rise. On the other hand If there is a 'new' deal then no change other than some additional 'clarifications', specifically re the backstop. If it is 'new deal' vs 'no deal' with no option of delay (as the PM would prefer), then 'new deal' wins. 'No deal' only wins by default by accident. Or Corbyn does something stupid. Hard Brexiteers cannot win on their own numbers.

[Loiner]

While the can is in play and can be kicked down the road, no majority for anything in Parliament right now. So some odds in favour of delay. If there is a delay Hard Brexit is finished and Sterling will rise. On the other hand If there is a 'new' deal then no change other than some additional 'clarifications', specifically re the backstop. If it is 'new deal' vs 'no deal' with no option of delay (as the PM would prefer), then 'new deal' wins. 'No deal' only wins by default by accident. Or Corbyn does something stupid. Hard Brexiteers cannot win on their own numbers.

Even Remainers voted against her last deal. What makes you think they won’t reject her next one, unless there are major changes? You hope they won’t, but not all the MP Remainers are as rabid as you. No deal IS the default.
Corbyn could very easily do something stupid. Alternatively he could do something not stupid, he could come clean as a closet Leaver and tell his MPs to vote down May’s next Amendment.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[billd766]

12 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

There are many points to consider.
Unfortunately, I do not have the time to calculate that exactly.
Only as a rough estimate:
 

Original price of the battery 7000 Euros
1000 times loading capacity
Range 250 km with one filling
Total range / battery life 250,000 km
Depreciation then 7 Euros per refilling.
Profit on the investment 3 Euros per refilling

plus

At an average price of 24Cent per KWh hour a tank filling (250km) would cost about € 9,09 (0.24Cent x the 37,9 kWh of the battery).
Plus
insurance fee for the battery 1 Euro per filling

Net cost of operation for 1 refilling around 20 Euros.
Or 8 Euros for 100 km

Plus investment costs for a quick change station plus storage capacity for the batteries plus staff costs, if the whole does not run fully automatically.
(All 3 positions would have to be divided by the number of tank / change processes.)
But today the petrol stations earn mainly with their affiliated supermarkets.

You practically buy such a battery by subscription or a form of leasing.
The battery can be insured against breakage.
Of course, the big gas station chains like Shell, etc. check the batteries for their correct condition.
The housing for the battery box are identical for all batteries.
Of course, over time, when battery development is improved, you can have more power within the standard size.
Just as if you use regular gasoline, Super or Ultra.

But you're right, to completely think through such a concept and to calculate it takes a lot of time.
But the big petrol station companies like Shell could easily realize such an investment on the capital side.
First of all, only a coarse network would have to be set up first.
It is currently similar to the network for vehicles with gas LPG systems (in Europe).
 

Fortunately at 74 years old, by the time that electric cars are just about the only thing you will be able to buy here in Thailand I will be dead and toasted.