Extreme Brexit could be worse than financial crisis for UK: BoE

[Henryford]

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Ha ha, he can't attend a meeting because an Labour MP is there. Obviously there wasn't enough terrorists in the room for him. A shambolic leader of the Labour party. 

He may be shambolic but i can easily see him getting to be PM. He polled over 40% in the 2017 election, only 2% below Treason May. It wouldn't take too many pissed off Tory voters (and there are millions of them) to push him past 43%.

[Ahab]

21 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

I am sure that some leavers voted that way because they genuinely believed the UK would be better off out of the EU than in; but they are in the minority. By their own admission, Vote.Leave didn't target them, they targeted the undecided with three main areas of attack.

 

1) To stop immigration, to stop East Europeans coming and taking British jobs.

 

Except they weren't!

 

These countries joined The EU in 2004, Bulgaria and Romania in 2007. "Between 2000 and 2007 the (UK unemployment) rate was relatively stable before rising from 5.3 percent in 2007 to 8.1 percent by 2011. This increase was almost certainly due to the onset of the Great Recession in 2008, which saw the United Kingdom's GDP contract by 4.2 percent in 2009. The UK's unemployment rate declined after 2011, but only reached it's pre-2008 levels in 2015 before declining further in more recent years, reaching a low for this period of 4.1 percent in 2018." (Source)

 

Though some seemed confused as to which immigrants leaving the EU would stop! Remember videos like that of the man saying he had no problem with Poles or Romanians coming here; he voted Leave to stop immigrants from Muslim countries! 

 

2) To regain our sovereignty.

 

Whenever a country signs an international treaty of any kind it obviously cedes some sovereignty in matters covered by that treaty. That has been the case ever since countries started to arrange treaties, trade deals etc. between them.

 

Although a sovereign state could ignore the terms of that treaty or deal if it wished. For example, all EU law has to be approved by Parliament before it becomes law in the UK. Of course, if Parliament withheld it's approval there would be some explaining to do. But that will be the same if we break the terms of any treaties or trade deals we sign post Brexit; no matter who they may be with.   

 

Many are still confused as to how little sovereignty we have actually ceded to the EU. Very little is the answer and that only on matters effecting the EU as a whole. In all other areas we retain complete sovereignty.

 

Who passes Acts concerning the control of crime? The UK Parliament.

 

For example laws concerning knife ownership are up to individual member states. There is an EU directive concerning minimum standards required for gun ownership, but member states are free to set more stringent ones if they wish; as we have done.

 

The minimum age to purchase alcohol or tobacco, the minimum age to marry etc. isn't governed by the EU and is not the same in all member states.

 

Who sets our tax rates and public spending? The UK Parliament.

 

Who sets our foreign policy; including if we go to war? The UK Parliament.

 

Etc., etc..

 

The list of what we have sovereignty over is a lot longer than the list of areas where we ceded sovereignty to the EU.

 

3) Because they believed the various Leave campaigns, official and otherwise, when they said that we could leave but still enjoy all the benefits of membership without any of the responsibilities. 

 

That and their dirty tricks. Having realised in a previous campaign against  changing the UK's first past the post electoral system that the ASA had no control over political adverts, they went to it with a will; the infamous Boris bus being one example. Also skillful video editing played a large part; "The most popular videos (on Vote.Leave's Facebook page) are carefully selected TV clips. For example, Mr Cameron was generally judged to have dealt well with 30 minutes of questions from an ITV audience on June 7. But Vote Leave posted an excerpt of an audience member complaining about his record on immigration. The 36-second video — which did not include the prime minister’s response — was billed as the “highlight of tonight’s ITV debate”. It has been viewed 1.4m times on Facebook. That is substantial when compared with 4m people who watched the programme live." (Source)

 

 

A thoughtful and well crafted response.

 

I still think if is such a good deal that the people would have supported staying more strongly. Remember that it was a small tax on tea that highlighted unfair British actions towards the 13 American colonies which eventually ended up with the Revolutionary War (aka the first Brexit).

[Ahab]

On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 8:33 AM, sandyf said:

My son's mother in law told her husband, daughter,son and my son to vote leave because that was what she wanted at the time, changed her mind when my son's employer started to make plans to relocate to Dublin.

Do you really believe that everyone understood the situation rather than discontent from austerity.

Sometimes uncertainty and austerity are not bad things and are more scary before they are faced, than they actually are.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Henryford said:

He may be shambolic but i can easily see him getting to be PM. He polled over 40% in the 2017 election, only 2% below Treason May. It wouldn't take too many pissed off Tory voters (and there are millions of them) to push him past 43%.

In all fairness, I think T May on her bad day is better than Corbyn on his good day. 

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, Henryford said:

He may be shambolic but i can easily see him getting to be PM. He polled over 40% in the 2017 election, only 2% below Treason May. It wouldn't take too many pissed off Tory voters (and there are millions of them) to push him past 43%.

here the latest report on Labour

LABOUR bosses fear election wipeout over Brexit because voters see them as "the Remain party", a leaked dossier reveals.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/8678990/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-brexit-second-referendum/

[dick dasterdly]

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

here the latest report on Labour

LABOUR bosses fear election wipeout over Brexit because voters see them as "the Remain party", a leaked dossier reveals.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/8678990/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-brexit-second-referendum/

Which is why I wouldn't be at all suprised if may is threatening MPs with a GE if they don't support her and the EUs' deal.

 

Both tory and labour know they may lose a large number of seats. ????

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Well, I never - somebody actually reads the Independent and actually quotes what they say!

Well I never - somebody that thinks the Independent speaks on behalf of the EU.

[evadgib]

7 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Constructive criticism?

 

When you made no attempt to counter any of the points I raised! But perhaps that's because you can't.

 

You seem to believe that members here can't understand lengthy written information and need a talking head to explain it to them. Well, based on his comments, in the case of @Krataiboy that does appear to be true.

 

But I believe most are more than capable of reading a lengthy piece of prose and then forming an opinion on it's contents.

 

How often do we see direction from on high requesting posts and attachments be kept short and not to quote an entire post in reply so as not to clog up the page?

 

Back on topic; even Bercow asks members to 'keep it short' in the house!

[talahtnut]

UK democracy is the best that money can buy.

 

 

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

He may be shambolic but i can easily see him getting to be PM. He polled over 40% in the 2017 election, only 2% below Treason May. It wouldn't take too many pissed off Tory voters (and there are millions of them) to push him past 43%.

I can't see UK allowing that:

(They later repeated this for Millipede)

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

He may be shambolic but i can easily see him getting to be PM. He polled over 40% in the 2017 election, only 2% below Treason May. It wouldn't take too many pissed off Tory voters (and there are millions of them) to push him past 43%.

You may also want to consider that over 60% plus Labour voters, voted leave and with the constant changing his stance,  plus now support for a second referendum, he might be lucky to get half of that 20%.

[damascase]

45 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

UK democracy is the best that money can buy.

 

 

A democracy that has to be bought - that doesn’t sound like worth having.........

[evadgib]

8 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Constructive criticism?

 

When you made no attempt to counter any of the points I raised! But perhaps that's because you can't.

 

You seem to believe that members here can't understand lengthy written information and need a talking head to explain it to them. Well, based on his comments, in the case of @Krataiboy that does appear to be true.

 

But I believe most are more than capable of reading a lengthy piece of prose and then forming an opinion on it's contents.

 

Further to my earlier answer (and back to my original point) :

 

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, damascase said:

A democracy that has to be bought - that doesn’t sound like worth having.........

Very true, which is why the electorate has to stop our politicians from reneging on the referendum result!

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Thank you for that, at first glance it's an interesting read; even though it probably did put a certain member to sleep and another would prefer a talking head to explain it all.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have time to read it properly at present; so I hope you'll allow me time to get back to you on details of it's contents.; probably at the weekend.

 

But at first glance it looks very much like the type of policy paper produced by UK government departments by the skip full each Parliament for consideration by their Secretary of State and, maybe, Cabinet. Most of which never come to anything and are ditched.

 

In other words, just because something is in this paper, doesn't mean it will happen. It would take the democratic vote of the European Parliament at least, possibly the consent of all heads of state, for anything in this document to do so. 

That's OK. It merely sets out future EU policy intentions, backed up by Juncker and Macron. Probably just a flash in the pan then?

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, tebee said:

Brexit: 90% say handling of negotiations is 'national humiliation' - Sky Data poll

 

https://www.channel103.com/news/uk-politics/brexit-90-say-handling-of-negotiations-is-national-humiliation-sky-data-poll/

Can't disagree with that one.

[evadgib]

I had to chuckle at photo of the marchers LML bus parked outside Yvette Coopers constituency office yesterday ????

 

& here's something of interest to all sides from last nights 'Peston':

 

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by evadgib

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, bomber said:

your 30-40% stats are from around 3 years ago,they must of done something as its down to 15-20%, not that it has anything to do with us Brits,my partner assures me that the people that want work in portugal always manage to find it,you see its not just benefit scroungers in the UK they are everywhere,remember the stories in the sun a few years ago about them even getting as far away as pattaya

No. Stats are 2019. Link to Statista:

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/ 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Ahab said:

A thoughtful and well crafted response.

 

I still think if is such a good deal that the people would have supported staying more strongly. Remember that it was a small tax on tea that highlighted unfair British actions towards the 13 American colonies which eventually ended up with the Revolutionary War (aka the first Brexit).

 

[nauseus]

11 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

...if you use the time until tomorrow to get yourself up to speed. 

The ECJ put no conditions on revocation as far as I can see. If different please link.

[beautifulthailand99]

40 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Further to my earlier answer (and back to my original point) :

 

Staring down the barrel of a No Deal - MPs vote to revoke Article 50 - with a hop, skip and a jump at the final moment we get to stay in the EU. And the last 1000 days was just a bad dream........EU's happy, Ireland's happy and a majority of the UK is happy to get back to things that really matter to our country like a strong economy, NHS, pensions, and schools and a 50 baht pound. What's not to like?

 

<pic of angry fat bloke in Union Jack suit sitting in pub with his spoons pint of nearly sell by date continental lager.....>

 

Let's take Our Country back .......to June 22nd 2016 

[Henryford]

2 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Staring down the barrel of a No Deal - MPs vote to revoke Article 50 - with a hop, skip and a jump at the final moment we get to stay in the EU. And the last 1000 days was just a bad dream........EU's happy, Ireland's happy and a majority of the UK is happy to get back to things that really matter to our country like a strong economy, NHS, pensions, and schools and a 50 baht pound. What's not to like?

 

<pic of angry fat bloke in Union Jack suit sitting in pub with his spoons pint of nearly sell by date continental lager.....>

 

Let's take Our Country back .......to June 22nd 2016  

I would dare the Tories to do that. It would be political suicide for the next 30 years.

[beautifulthailand99]

5 minutes ago, Henryford said:

I would dare the Tories to do that. It would be political suicide for the next 30 years.

Destroy the country or destroy the party .......Corbyn's line it is necessary to support the economy for jobs etc.....enough Tories put the economy before the party and we are over the line....

[Krataiboy]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

Well I never - somebody that thinks the Independent speaks on behalf of the EU.

Awful lefty rag, only fit to be remaindered.

[Krataiboy]

10 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Constructive criticism?

 

When you made no attempt to counter any of the points I raised! But perhaps that's because you can't.

 

You seem to believe that members here can't understand lengthy written information and need a talking head to explain it to them. Well, based on his comments, in the case of @Krataiboy that does appear to be true.

 

But I believe most are more than capable of reading a lengthy piece of prose and then forming an opinion on it's contents.

 

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

[tebee]

The government petition asking to revoke article 50 and remain in the EU is at almost 400,000

 

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

[beautifulthailand99]

13 minutes ago, tebee said:

The government petition asking to revoke article 50 and remain in the EU is at almost 400,000

 

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Thanks Tebee - signed , just about to do for the missus as well and send to all my mates and relatives. Let's get to a million by COP. 

 

 

Petitions

UK Government and Parliament

400,768 signatures

 signatures

We've added your signature to the petition:

Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.

[talahtnut]

15 minutes ago, tebee said:

The government petition asking to revoke article 50 and remain in the EU is at almost 400,000

 

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

400.000 selfish people ignoring democracy.

[beautifulthailand99]

I minute later and another 8k 

408,262 signatures

We've added your signature to the petition:

Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.

Share this petition

 

[owl sees all]

A couple of have things have come into my thinking today. One important and the other perhaps not so.

 

Firstly; the Eurovision song contest! Will we still be able to participate when we leave the EU?

 

Secondly; would it be worth the Brexiteers promoting our thoughts through a mass rally. I am thinking Pattaya sometime next week (after the Thai elections). Would there be much enthusiasm, among TVForum members, for a rally on the beach perhaps, or Bali-hi pier?

Edited March 21, 2019 by owl sees all