Thailand Now On List Of Countries For Direct Deposits Of Social Security Payments

[srowndedbyh2o]

6 hours ago, Pib said:

Who is "they?"  It sure ain't Bankgok Bank as only SSA can make such changes.

My comment was in reference to your statement about the SSA;

On 12/3/2018 at 9:30 AM, srowndedbyh2o said:

...then my family member's payment today should have been in IAT format....but it wasn't.

I was just throwing out there a (guess) possible explanation of why not all payments are “auto changed” into IAT format. That is if “auto changing” is indeed taking place. I really have no idea. It was just a thought.

Then again, as far as SS payments goes, does it really matter? Why would the SSA even bother "auto changing" any payments? Once DD to Thailand is implemented, it’s irrelevant.

[Pib]

@srowndedbyh2o

 

I stand corrected...you did say "maybe".   I got your earlier post saying "maybe" mixed up with OmarZaid's post below where he said a Bangkok Bank rep in Bangkok told him his payment was "auto changed" to IAT format 2 months ago.    

 

But like the primary Bangkok Bank rep told me face-to-face just a few days ago, Bangkok Bank did not make any changes nor could they.....all they can do is tell customers if their payment is arriving in IAT format or not, prepare a SSA-1199 for submission to SSA, etc.,......only the SSA can make any necessary changes such as changing from PPD format to IAT format. 

 

I should have asked OmarZad where he said his payment was  "auto changed" to the correct IAT format around two months ago, did he by chance submit something to SSA 2 to 4 months ago like maybe a SSA-1199 Direct Deposit form?  If so, maybe that is why his got changed.   You listening in OmarZaid?

 

 

Edited December 8, 2018 by Pib

[Pib]

 

As I mentioned in an earlier post the SSA POMS (i.e., policy/instructions for SSA issue) states IDD payments to Thailand must be to a US dollar account at local Financial Institutions.  Or said another way payment must got to a Foreign Currency Deposit (FCD) account at a Thai bank.  You can click on below SSA weblink to see the full instructions/details....but I have included a snapshot to the key paragraph form the POMS. 

 

From looking at IDD POMS for various countries, for some countries the SSA allows/sends payment only the foreign currency for a particular country (e.g., Vietnam Dong for Vietnam).  For other countries the SSA allows/sends payment in US dollars only and Thailand is one of those countries.   For a few countries like Canada SSA can seen local currency or USD.   But as mentioned, for Thailand payment must be in USD to a FCD only.

 

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202402419

 

With above being said and reading up on FCD at a couple of Thai banks such as Bangkok Bank and K-Bank, below are some FCD weblinks talking FCDs.  Assuming FCD accounts in Thailand have similar rules, the Bangkok Bank weblink has more details.  

 

FCD Bangkok Bank

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Save-And-Invest/Save/FCD-Account-for-Non-residents

 

FCD Kaiskorn Bank

https://www.kasikornbank.com/en/personal/Account/Pages/foreign-currency.aspx

 

But from looking at the FCD accout info at the two banks and comparing to the current Bangkok Bank special Direct Deposit account for U.S. govt payments, a FCD account will have some similar restrictions to the Direct Deposit account.  For example:

 

1.  I don't see where a joint account is allowed...appears to be single name account....just like the current Bankgok Bank Direct Deposit account

2.  No ATM card.  The Bangkok Bank webpage says such...I couldn't find where it says one way or another on the Kbank website so I'm assuming also no ATM card

3.  With a Bangkok Bank FCD account you can only withdraw and deposit at the branch you have the FCD account with; not any branch like the current Direct Deposit account.   But for K-bank is appears you can withdraw or deposit at any Kbank branch with FCD services (209 such branches they say).

4.  At Bangkok Bank the minimum opening balance for a FCD is $1000 and to avoid a $10 monthly maintenance fee you have to maintain a minimum $250 balance.  Kbank says $10,000 minimum opening deposit with a minimum $5000 monthly balance to prevent a $10 monthly maintenance fee.

5.  You can do some ibanking related to the FCD accounts at both banks

6.  For incoming transfers...like that incoming SSA payment....a 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) receiving fee applies at both Bangkok Bank and K-bank just like currently with the Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account (or any account).  I do not know if there is any intermediary bank fee like how the Bangkok Bank New York branch slices off a fee also when money flows thru them onto you in-Thailand Bangkok Bank account.

 

Anyway, you all can review Thai bank webpages regarding their FCD accounts.  I expect all will be similar.  But if anyone was thinking by switching to the SSA IDD program once it actually becomes available that you be able to have a joint account, debit card, etc., it does not appear so unless banks decide to offer a less restrictive FCD just for folks receiving US govt payments---my money bets that is not going to happen. 

 

While IDD will indeed overcome this ACH IAT issue some folks are facing, IDD is not a panacea.   And don't go rushing to Bangkok Bank to sign-up for IDD as they have no more info than we do...do not have an IDD sign up form for Thailand.   They are aware Thailand has been approved for IDD participation but the "details are still being worked out/agreed to between the SSA and whatever Thai banks decide to participate in the IDD."

  

 

 

 

[racyrick]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

 

As I mentioned in an earlier post the SSA POMS (i.e., policy/instructions for SSA issue) states IDD payments to Thailand must be to a US dollar account at local Financial Institutions.  Or said another way payment must got to a Foreign Currency Deposit (FCD) account at a Thai bank.  You can click on below SSA weblink to see the full instructions/details....but I have included a snapshot to the key paragraph form the POMS. 

 

From looking at IDD POMS for various countries, for some countries the SSA allows/sends payment only the foreign currency for a particular country (e.g., Vietnam Dong for Vietnam).  For other countries the SSA allows/sends payment in US dollars only and Thailand is one of those countries.   For a few countries like Canada SSA can seen local currency or USD.   But as mentioned, for Thailand payment must be in USD to a FCD only.

 

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202402419

 

With above being said and reading up on FCD at a couple of Thai banks such as Bangkok Bank and K-Bank, below are some FCD weblinks talking FCDs.  Assuming FCD accounts in Thailand have similar rules, the Bangkok Bank weblink has more details.  

 

FCD Bangkok Bank

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Save-And-Invest/Save/FCD-Account-for-Non-residents

 

FCD Kaiskorn Bank

https://www.kasikornbank.com/en/personal/Account/Pages/foreign-currency.aspx

 

But from looking at the FCD accout info at the two banks and comparing to the current Bangkok Bank special Direct Deposit account for U.S. govt payments, a FCD account will have some similar restrictions to the Direct Deposit account.  For example:

 

1.  I don't see where a joint account is allowed...appears to be single name account....just like the current Bankgok Bank Direct Deposit account

2.  No ATM card.  The Bangkok Bank webpage says such...I couldn't find where it says one way or another on the Kbank website so I'm assuming also no ATM card

3.  With a Bangkok Bank FCD account you can only withdraw and deposit at the branch you have the FCD account with; not any branch like the current Direct Deposit account.   But for K-bank is appears you can withdraw or deposit at any Kbank branch with FCD services (209 such branches they say).

4.  At Bangkok Bank the minimum opening balance for a FCD is $1000 and to avoid a $10 monthly maintenance fee you have to maintain a minimum $250 balance.  Kbank says $10,000 minimum opening deposit with a minimum $5000 monthly balance to prevent a $10 monthly maintenance fee.

5.  You can do some ibanking related to the FCD accounts at both banks

6.  For incoming transfers...like that incoming SSA payment....a 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) receiving fee applies at both Bangkok Bank and K-bank just like currently with the Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account (or any account).  I do not know if there is any intermediary bank fee like how the Bangkok Bank New York branch slices off a fee also when money flows thru them onto you in-Thailand Bangkok Bank account.

 

Anyway, you all can review Thai bank webpages regarding their FCD accounts.  I expect all will be similar.  But if anyone was thinking by switching to the SSA IDD program once it actually becomes available that you be able to have a joint account, debit card, etc., it does not appear so unless banks decide to offer a less restrictive FCD just for folks receiving US govt payments---my money bets that is not going to happen. 

 

While IDD will indeed overcome this ACH IAT issue some folks are facing, IDD is not a panacea.   And don't go rushing to Bangkok Bank to sign-up for IDD as they have no more info than we do...do not have an IDD sign up form for Thailand.   They are aware Thailand has been approved for IDD participation but the "details are still being worked out/agreed to between the SSA and whatever Thai banks decide to participate in the IDD."

  

 

 

 

Thank you so much for your very informative post!!

 

You say to open with Bangkok Bank, you need a minimum opening balance of $1,000. After I open the account, can I take back most of the initial deposit?

 

Kbank with the $10,000 initial deposit is way out of my reach. Thanks again

[Pib]

1 hour ago, racyrick said:

Thank you so much for your very informative post!!

 

You say to open with Bangkok Bank, you need a minimum opening balance of $1,000. After I open the account, can I take back most of the initial deposit?

 

Kbank with the $10,000 initial deposit is way out of my reach. Thanks again

I don't see why you couldn't take it right back out shortly afterwards.  Their website even talks the monthly maintenance fee if you let your balance fall below $250.  So, if you can fall below $250 and just incur a monthly maintenance fee then that means you withdraw funds below the minimum opening amount which was $1000 for Bangkok Bank.  

 

Not uncommon for a bank to require a minimum opening deposit for some types of accounts...but then you can withdraw that deposit if desired (just consider any minimum balance fees that might apply).

 

Just like for a standard/typical Thai savings account a Bt500 minimum opening deposit is required...but after getting the account open you can with that money.

 

I guess minimum opening deposits deter people from just opening accounts for the kick of it.....shows the bank that at least you got some money...lessens the chance you are just a deadbeat account.

 

 

[Pib]

One other and big downside of a FCD account is it's not covered under the Thailand Deposit Protection program.  So if using a FCD account to receive your US govt payment you might want to quickly transfer the funds over to your regular Thai baht savings account so you'll have deposit protection.

 

http://www.dpa.or.th/download/pdf/DPA-FAQ-EN0716.pdf

Edited December 8, 2018 by Pib

[chubby]

On 12/1/2018 at 6:26 PM, Pib said:

Hopefully you are aware that unless Bangkok Bank is receiving your payment in "IAT" format, effective 1 Apr 19 your SSA payment will be rejected back to SSA.

 

Recommend you review below thread/links on subject....and also call the POC on the Bangkok Bank letter at bottom "to specifically ask if your payment is currently being received in IAT format."  For many people (like on of my family members) it's not being received in IAT format but PPD format.  The PPD format will be rejected effective 1 Apr 19.  

 

 

 

 

Also review this Bangkok Bank webpage regarding the policy change

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

 

 

And here is a key letter anyone with a Bangkok Bangkok Direct Deposit account is "suppose" to receive on one of their visit to their branch to withdraw funds from the account.    Personally, I doubt many of the branches are handing out the letter.

 

so, 2nd paragraph seems to say I am supposed to do what?  Go to my local BBL branch and provide them with proof of residence in Thailand and the BBL NYC branch number (which shouldn't they already know that?) and also my BBL number which I would presume they know, though I can bring my passbook and passport.

 

BUT, then the 3rd paragraph is saying to provide something to my "private organization" , which I presume to mean, my banking or credit union ?

 

So, which is it?  whom and what am I to provide to whom, to possibly maintain my ability to use NYC Branch of BBL ? for transfers

 

 

or, is there actually no way to do this ...... though, I otherwise applaud the grammer,  perhaps I'm reading it without enough prior knowledge ....

[Pib]

2 hours ago, chubby said:

so, 2nd paragraph seems to say I am supposed to do what?  Go to my local BBL branch and provide them with proof of residence in Thailand and the BBL NYC branch number (which shouldn't they already know that?) and also my BBL number which I would presume they know, though I can bring my passbook and passport.

 

BUT, then the 3rd paragraph is saying to provide something to my "private organization" , which I presume to mean, my banking or credit union ?

 

So, which is it?  whom and what am I to provide to whom, to possibly maintain my ability to use NYC Branch of BBL ? for transfers

 

 

or, is there actually no way to do this ...... though, I otherwise applaud the grammer,  perhaps I'm reading it without enough prior knowledge ....

Para 2 is saying in order for Bangkok Bank to process/receive you payment in must be rec'd in ACH "IAT" format which means it must include certain information otherwise the bank must reject it.  That certain info is talked later in the letter.  In info numbered 1, 2, and 3.  Plus there is a SEC code of IAT included in the payment versus the PPD code.  PPD and IAT formats are just different; the IAT format includes additional info to clearly identify who is sending and who is receiving.  A U.S. Treasury/NACHA requirement Bangkok Bank must not comply with since the money is leaving the States.

 

To get your payment format changed to IAT "you" must contact your private organization/bank, U.S. govt agency, etc.,...that private org/bank, US govt agency are the ones who must make the change "if", repeat if they will send in IAT format.   Bangkok Bank can not change it for you.

 

And I know of no US bank that uses ACH "IAT" format except certain banks who provide that service to companies you must make foreign payments, pay foreign payroll, etc.   For the retail customer, such as you and I, I know of no US bank that will sent in IAT format....they will only send in PPD format and/or Int'l Wire (SWIFT).  However, all US banks can "receive" ACH IAT format; it's just none I know of support "sending" IAT format for the retail customer.  Plus, Int'l Wires are a real cash cow for them....why kill a cash cow in exchange for free/low cost ACH IAT.  This has been talked extensively in another thread.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2018 by Pib

[longball53098]

I have a BBL FCD account and use it regularly. I have had the account for a few years now. The account is held at the main office in Silom area not your local branch. I opened/processed the paperwork at my local branch but they sent it all to BKK for actual processing. The passbook was sent back to the branch to give to me. No ATM card but I don't mind that. I can use my Ibanking to move USD out of the account into my THB accounts as needed but only during bank business hours during the week.  The exchange rate you get is posted on the account page and that is what you get at the time of the transfer. So if the rate is down you have a choice to hold the funds til the rate comes back up. No transfers on nights and weekends or holidays. I have never used the book to withdraw cash at a branch. SO I do not know if I can draw USD or I must get THB when doing a withdrawal.

A local American friend used his USD FCD account to show funds in the bank for his annual retirement extension. Bank produced the letter and all as normal and Immigration accepted no questions. 

I have made several ACH transfers direct from my US Chase bank account via BKK NY to my FCD account. Transfer in USD all the way. Just did one last week. Moved 10,000 USD from Chase and received 9,990 USD in my FCD account here. Effective time about 2.5 days. Of course in April this ACH method will go away. So I will be stuck with Swift transfers from Chase at 40 USD per transfer for USD.

[chubby]

ah, long story short for retail US banking customers, just ignore the letter, as there is no ACH-like workaround for moving money into Thailand.  ; Swift >$3k  TW <$3k  or  Card Cash advances /ATMs withdrawals

 

thanks for the clarification.

Edited December 9, 2018 by chubby
sff

[Pib]

longball,

Good details on regarding the Bankgok Bank FCD.  Thanks. 

 

Gives those "actual use/fine print details" a person usually can't find out until actually opening & using a FCD.   But I do have a few questions I would appreciate some more info on if you have the time.

 

You said your latest transfer incurred a $10 fee along the way.  I can understand that fee as that is the Bangkok Bank "NY branch" fee slice as it flowed thru them on the way to your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank FCD account. They sliced-off a $10 fee and forwarded the remaining $9,990 to Thailand.  But there should have also been a 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) "receiving" fee on the Thailand for the $9,990 arriving amount. For the $9,990 amount that that would have incurred the max Bt500 fee (approx $15).   See the Bangkok Bank FCD fee snapshot below.   But this fee would "not" have appeared anywhere except in the free SMS Remittance text if you have that service setup.  Can fool a person into thinking no fee was applied.

 

That receiving fee would not have appeared on your FCD account ibanking or in your passbook as separate transactions.  In a Thai baht account it would not appeared either but the receiving fee would have been sliced off the final amount actually posting to your account.  In the free SMS Remittance text for a Thai baht account it always shows that fee right after the amount they posted to your account...maybe it does the same for a FCD account if you have the free SMS Remittance text setup for the FCD account.  Anyway, combining the $10 fee the NY branch sliced off and the approx $15 fee on the receiving end that adds up to $25, with $15 of that being a hidden receiving fee.   Anyway, you sure there was not a receiving fee of 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) on the $9,990 arriving amount?

 

I know this may sound like a stupid question but does your FCD ibanking display in USD Only, USD and THB, or THB Only?   I mention THB Only because if it does the receiving fee would have been disguised (deducted) within that amount.  

 

Partial FCD Fee Schedule

 

  

 

 

 

[longball53098]

PIB, I can show you the account info that is displayed in for my FCD USD. Ledger Balance is in USD, Available Balance is in USD and the Approx. Baht Amount shown is based on the exchange rate that day. You can see the money coming in was 9,990 which is USD and the balance also in USD. I have never known where the exchange fee is figured in. Possible when I transfer the USD in to the THB account there is a hidden fee built in to the rate when I do a transfer? 

 

I have activated the SMS but I have never received one so I am not sure why. I called the number I believe you posted some time back and it says the service is active. Maybe refresh my memory as to the process for that SMS.

 

I hope this posting helps?

 

PK

 

[Pib]

Thanks.  Yea, it sure helps.  Goes to show what they show for their receiving fee apparently really does not apply for a FCD account although their fee schedule says it does. 

 

I just looked at the Bangkok Bank exchange rate webpage and their TT Buying Rate is 32.67.  The TT Buying Rate is used when converting money in a FCD to Thai baht (see second snapshot below from Bangkok Bank FCD webpages).  And just as FYI the TT Buying Rate is the rate used for incoming electronic transfers like if that $9,990 had been going to a Thai baht account. 

 

Exchange Rate for Friday (7 Dec) and Saturday and Sunday (8-9 Dec).  Notice the rate shown matches what your ibanking displays if you would exchange some dollars from your FCD account to baht at this moment in time.

 

FCD Exchange Rate used when converting to Baht

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by Pib

[riclag]

It's astonishing  that with all the threads about the changes on how one receives SS payments and Bangkok Bank NY transfers ,still don't know about it  

[Pib]

56 minutes ago, longball53098 said:

I have activated the SMS but I have never received one so I am not sure why. I called the number I believe you posted some time back and it says the service is active. Maybe refresh my memory as to the process for that SMS.

Below is the Bangkok Bank webpage on how to set up the Free SMS Remittance Alert.   As you will see it requires a debit card linked to the account to activate by phone or at an ATM.  A Bangkok Bank FCD account does not come with a debit card, so how does a person get it activated without a debit card issued with the account?  You go to a branch and fill out a one page form which is used to get it activated....they have a form for it.

 

And although this does not apply in your case since the FCD is only in your name I assume, if it was a joint account Bangkok Bank (not allowed for a FCD AFAIK) "may" not allow the free SMS Remittance Alert to be setup because for their regular pay SMS Service it's not allowed on joint accounts; only single name accounts.  Strange SMS rules for joint accounts.  However, I have two joint accounts...one with debit card and one without...where the free SMS Remittance Alert was setup using the form submission method.

 

Every time I have setup the free SMS Remittance Alert on an account....mine and the wife's....it's been done by completing the one page form they have for it.   It's like a manual override to get around not having a debit card and apparently joint account obstacles.  The form is not on their website...you need to go to branch and explain what your want.

 

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Digital-Banking/SMS-Services/SMS-Remittance-Alert

[Pib]

Around a week ago I asked the Manila SS Office about the Thailand IDD....got a response today that was short and sweet.  Partially quoted it said, "Good morning...We received the instruction but it is not yet implemented."

 

With that being said since the US Embassy said is an Oct 18 Q&A document talking "no more income letters for extensions of stay" that the SSA IDD would become available in the first quarter of 2019 and based on some feedback I got form a Bangkok Bank rep knowledgeable on the subject that the Thailand IDD was supposedly still in the "testing phase" with a few test accounts (not to imply they were Bangkok Bank accounts), that it will indeed be early next year before IDD signup is opened.   Only then will we know the specifics like which Thai bank(s) is participating, account use details/restrictions, etc.  

 

 

[chubby]

On 12/9/2018 at 8:41 AM, longball53098 said:

I have a BBL FCD account and use it regularly. I have had the account for a few years now. The account is held at the main office in Silom area not your local branch. I opened/processed the paperwork at my local branch but they sent it all to BKK for actual processing. The passbook was sent back to the branch to give to me. No ATM card but I don't mind that. I can use my Ibanking to move USD out of the account into my THB accounts as needed but only during bank business hours during the week.  The exchange rate you get is posted on the account page and that is what you get at the time of the transfer. So if the rate is down you have a choice to hold the funds til the rate comes back up. No transfers on nights and weekends or holidays. I have never used the book to withdraw cash at a branch. SO I do not know if I can draw USD or I must get THB when doing a withdrawal.

A local American friend used his USD FCD account to show funds in the bank for his annual retirement extension. Bank produced the letter and all as normal and Immigration accepted no questions. 

I have made several ACH transfers direct from my US Chase bank account via BKK NY to my FCD account. Transfer in USD all the way. Just did one last week. Moved 10,000 USD from Chase and received 9,990 USD in my FCD account here. Effective time about 2.5 days. Of course in April this ACH method will go away. So I will be stuck with Swift transfers from Chase at 40 USD per transfer for USD.

 

so, what would be the advantage if any of a FCD account   after April , if any ? 

 

preferable to a non FCD account for Swift deposits?

[longball53098]

It has been shown that if a US SSA recipient wants an IDD to a bank in Thailand one of the requirements will be the receiver will have to have an FCD account . So should I choose that method to receive my SSA payment after April I already have the account in place and moving cash through BBL NY will not be necessary anymore

[Pib]

41 minutes ago, longball53098 said:

It has been shown that if a US SSA recipient wants an IDD to a bank in Thailand one of the requirements will be the receiver will have to have an FCD account . So should I choose that method to receive my SSA payment after April I already have the account in place and moving cash through BBL NY will not be necessary anymore

As far as I know the ACH method to receive SSA payments will still be in-place...it's just a person needs to confirm the SSA payment is being sent in "IAT" format vs "PPD" format.  Bangkok Bank will reject PPD format; gladly receive IAT format. If being sent/received in PPD format then the person needs to get with SSA to get it changed to IAT format. 

 

However, if for some reason a person can't get it changed to ACH IAT format then they will need to go with IDD.   

 

And I wouldn't assume right now the FCD for a US govt payment will have the same rules as a current FCD.  Hopefully it will be we can't be sure yet until SSA makes more info available and opens up IDD enrollment for Thailand.

 

And I will just repeat a FCD is "not" covered under the Thailand Deposit Protection Program like Thai baht accounts.  For "deposit protection/insurance" a person would probably just want to have the FCD to receive his US dollar payment and then transfer it to his Thai baht account.   

 

 

[KhunFred]

On 12/1/2018 at 6:23 PM, malibukid said:

now if only Thailand would accept Medicare payments

Impossible. It would solve too many problems.

[Bears]

On 12/1/2018 at 2:30 PM, keithet said:

I wonder how much thai bank fees will be? I have Kbank

When I transfer funds via BKK Bank New York, they charge me 5.00 USD there and 200 B when it's in my acct. here...very reasonable.