5 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

Oh, don’t kid yourself that they are ONLY in there....

I don't dare admit to say that there are all about on that island. (concerning Brexit) 

5 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Nonsense. The 'express will of the people' - you mean a small majority of those who voted in an advisory referendum. And where was it ever stated in the legislation that it was a "once in a lifetime referendum", apart from in your imagination?

 

People on the streets - yeah right. I don't think so.

 

The vote was to leave the EU. Nothing was mentioned about under what terms, or when. And certainly nothing was mentioned about this being once in a lifetime never to be repeated no matter how much those who like the result want to pretend.

 

The sensible thing would be to withdraw Article 50, and then fight a general election in which voters could vote for the political parties based on their manifestos which would include details of their attitude towards EU membership; or withdraw Article 50 and hold another referendum after the electorate had been given real, truthful, factual information, not lies and propaganda. But the spineless self interest driven scallywags that call themselves politicians won't dare do this. They'd rather try and fudge a mess to save face and pretend they're not just self interested.

When does "Brexit "  really mean  "No Brexit " ? answer , when T. May is at the helm .

I get annoyed with her when she has the audacity to state " the people of the UK voted for Brexit and that is what I am delivering " . What a load of lies & bullshit , it is a semi Brexit deal , at best ,  she is promoting and in no way satisfies the Brexit voters . How is this woman able to make clandestine decisions without any challenges , or so it seems . Stubborn to the ninth degree , now on her 3rd Brexit secretary and other minister resignations , she is a cause for concern with delusions of grandeur . Someone please put her out of her misery . 

This is not a time to gain political points by JC or others . This is a serious matter that needs cross party involvement to ensure a decent future for the country .

8 hours ago, SheungWan said:

'No deal' cannot get through Parliament. 

That is what has been said but I think May is relying on using that threat to push through her deal and by delaying the vote until late January she leaves little time for alternatives.  She cannot be challenged in her role as leader (forget Corbyn's pathetic attempt) and now the hard core Brexiteers are getting behind her.  Not the deal but they see that after the deal is rejected, then no-deal as the only option.  Unless people accept that May's deal is better.  It actually works for me but it really is Brexit in name only.

6 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Nonsense. The 'express will of the people' - you mean a small majority of those who voted in an advisory referendum. And where was it ever stated in the legislation that it was a "once in a lifetime referendum", apart from in your imagination?

 

People on the streets - yeah right. I don't think so.

 

The vote was to leave the EU. Nothing was mentioned about under what terms, or when. And certainly nothing was mentioned about this being once in a lifetime never to be repeated no matter how much those who like the result want to pretend.

 

The sensible thing would be to withdraw Article 50, and then fight a general election in which voters could vote for the political parties based on their manifestos which would include details of their attitude towards EU membership; or withdraw Article 50 and hold another referendum after the electorate had been given real, truthful, factual information, not lies and propaganda. But the spineless self interest driven scallywags that call themselves politicians won't dare do this. They'd rather try and fudge a mess to save face and pretend they're not just self interested.

The 2016 EU Referendum may not be constitutionally binding; however the Prime Minister (Cameron) who moved the legislation to enable the  referendum repeatedly made it clear, in speeches and in the leaflet (arguing for a remain vote) which his government sent to every household in the UK, that its result would be enacted. He even. I believe used the phrase "once in a lifetime decision. The result of the referendum was confirmed by a subsequent general election in which the two largest parties, Labour and Conservative, both ran on a manifesto of enacting the result. The current government, whose pathetic and feeble efforts are largely responsible for this mess, were both party to (as cabinet members under the doctrine of collective responsibility) Cameron's declarations and were elected (by the skin of their teeth) to the government after running on a manifesto for enacting the result - withdrawal.

 

I have no sympathy for those who didn't vote. The argument about leaving the EU has run throughout British politics for a long time. There can be few politically sentient people who are unaware of it. I doubt that many if any were swayed by Boris and his clownish antics in front of that bus. The argument even spawned a large and successful (in terms of votes won, if not in MPs elected) political party (UKIP) Personally I never voted UKIP, I dislike single issue politics, I dislike some of the company which they keep (Tommy Wilson is a recent example) and my local candidate, whom I knew, was an unsavoury individual who belonged under a flat stone in a boggy place! They did however bring and keep the argument to the forefront of British politics for a considerable time. To overturn the result will probably not produce disturbances on the scale of those seen in recent weeks in France, but it would be regarded by a very large number of voters as a deliberate and cynical refusal of the decision of the people. That will have long-running and far-reaching implications for the British peoples already battered respect for their political institutions.

 

The vote was very simply to leave the EU. it was made by a clear majority of those who could be arsed to vote. Those who couldn't be arsed don't have a say. That is their own fault. It (the vote) handed the government a brief to leave. That decision was confirmed by the general election which followed. The pathetic performance of this government (largely because they as individuals do not want to leave) has rather led to the mess we are in. They should stop faffing around, and get on with it.

7 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Nonsense. The 'express will of the people' - you mean a small majority of those who voted in an advisory referendum. And where was it ever stated in the legislation that it was a "once in a lifetime referendum", apart from in your imagination?

 

People on the streets - yeah right. I don't think so.

 

The vote was to leave the EU. Nothing was mentioned about under what terms, or when. And certainly nothing was mentioned about this being once in a lifetime never to be repeated no matter how much those who like the result want to pretend.

 

The sensible thing would be to withdraw Article 50, and then fight a general election in which voters could vote for the political parties based on their manifestos which would include details of their attitude towards EU membership; or withdraw Article 50 and hold another referendum after the electorate had been given real, truthful, factual information, not lies and propaganda. But the spineless self interest driven scallywags that call themselves politicians won't dare do this. They'd rather try and fudge a mess to save face and pretend they're not just self interested.

JRM explains...

 

Edited December 18, 20187 yr by evadgib

9 hours ago, KiChakayan said:

How about, a no deal exit followed by a referendum on joining the EU? Would be highly democratic wouldn't it? ????

Agree. We should hold it in 2056. That’s if there is still an E.u

4 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Seems as if all clowns are gathered in UK's parliament. 

Not all. As you well know, Your friends in Sin Fein do not take up their seats.

9 hours ago, KiChakayan said:

How about, a no deal exit followed by a referendum on joining the EU? Would be highly democratic wouldn't it? ????

IF they do leave and IF I were a betting man, I'd say we'd see them holding a referendum again sometime in our lifetime to re-enter the EU.

UKIP will dominate .... power to the people ... stuff the intellectuals & mortar board wizards.....mark my words, Viva Tommy robinson    the true Law and order of the future.  clean up gurus of the streets of Britain

13 hours ago, terryw said:

No Deal is the legal default. It can only be stopped if our useless politicians vote through an alternative solution which at the moment seems unlikely.

Mr "Seems" comes to town.

8 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Seems as if all clowns are gathered in UK's parliament. 

Plenty of populist clowns gathered outside.

A post and reply that violates Fair Use Policy has been removed.

 

Is there any extrapolation how much Brexit has cost so far? UK pound down, Euro under pressure.Will not take long, then the US dollar is pari with the pound and the euro. 1: 1: 1.
The Brexit Adventure has already cost a lot, if you look at the currency effects.
Billions have already been burned.
Pensions, life insurance, stocks, land and houses all worth much less on the world stage if you look at the exchange rates global. And the Prices for living going more fast up, than the income from the people. Hooray ot what?

Edited December 18, 20187 yr by tomacht8

Latest waste of money 

 

 

37 minutes ago, tebee said:

Latest waste of money 

 

 

The UK M2 money stock was at the end of 2017 Billion 3.066 valued in US Dollars.
If the exchange rate loss amounts to only 1% of the dollar, this results in a loss of 30 billion US Dollars for the UK currency. And that only measured at the US currency inflated by the printing press. If you look at the currency Chart for the last Year (Dec 2017 to now) , there you have a minus of 5,5 %. This equates to a loss in value of more than 150 billion (measured in US Dollars).
Brexit costs a lot of Money. Fact.

 

USUK1Y.bmp

Edited December 18, 20187 yr by tomacht8

5 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

Is there any extrapolation how much Brexit has cost so far? UK pound down, Euro under pressure.Will not take long, then the US dollar is pari with the pound and the euro. 1: 1: 1.
The Brexit Adventure has already cost a lot, if you look at the currency effects.
Billions have already been burned.
Pensions, life insurance, stocks, land and houses all worth much less on the world stage if you look at the exchange rates global. And the Prices for living going more fast up, than the income from the people. Hooray ot what?

Amazing how in two years we have gone from Brexit being the new Jerusalem - The easiest deal in human history, more money for the NHS, to Not the end of the world. Not exactly setting the bar high, is it?

And STILL The Faithful continue to believe in milk and honey, rather than admit they have been conned...

On 12/18/2018 at 8:17 AM, Jip99 said:

 

 

IMO the politicians won’t let no deal happen.

I thought the same too, but am now beginning to think that it will happen by default.

12 hours ago, tebee said:

Latest waste of money 

 

 

Waste of money?

 

In view of the referendum result this should have been spent two years ago to prepare to leave the eu!

 

It's also FAR less than the 39bn promised to the eu for a leave in name only 'deal'!

 

In fact, a bargain compared to 39bn - albeit FINALLY spent far later than it should have been....

6 hours ago, baboon said:

Amazing how in two years we have gone from Brexit being the new Jerusalem - The easiest deal in human history, more money for the NHS, to Not the end of the world. Not exactly setting the bar high, is it?

And STILL The Faithful continue to believe in milk and honey, rather than admit they have been conned...

You're better than promoting these types of lies and propaganda.....

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

You're better than promoting these types of lies and propaganda.....

All my own thoughts and words, I assure you.

Both the far right and the far left want a hard no deal Brexit.

 

That should tell you something about how good an idea it is.

 

They both want the chaos it will bring as they think the can use it as a smokescreen to push forward their respective agendas.

 

We have given the post - brexit government unprecedented powers to work without parimenter oversight - do you not think that is a tempting target for them?

 

It's the sensible center ground on both sides that doesn't want a no deal brexit - I mean the political class here, not the man in the street who is too easily influenced by calls to his/her emotionions and/or patriotism.

 

Be careful of what you wish for - you may get something very different.  

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I thought the same too, but am now beginning to think that it will happen by default.

Nah, the EU won't let it happen.

Let's do the Brexit Dictatorship checklist, shall we?

 

Enemies of the People denounced - check
Democratic processes circumvented - check
Extreme executive secrecy - check
Election refused - check
Army deployed - check

 

What have I forgotten?

Post violating Fair Use Policy have been removed.   Don't post a photo of something that has more than 3 sentences and you must also credit the source.  

 

 

https://www.ft.com/video/5a71fade-a708-4251-8b6f-64b9c9d6e271

Nah, the EU won't let it happen.

I'd have agreed with that analysis however Brussels continue on it's hardball WA refusal tactics, giving no political or legal status, meanwhile the EU releases it's No Deal white paper.

Makes interesting reading, flights continue, visa free movement for holidays & business for a 12 month buffer period. However the EU says the WA deal is far better than a no deal situation.

Now, they WOULD say that wouldn't they.

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Let's do the Brexit Dictatorship checklist, shall we?
 
Enemies of the People denounced - check
Democratic processes circumvented - check
Extreme executive secrecy - check
Election refused - check
Army deployed - check
 
What have I forgotten?

Maybe best for you Tebee to apply for french citizenship..and renounce your British citizenship.
All you do is bad-mouth the country of your birth constantly.
You obviously do not care at all for all the British people who have lost their jobs due to firms, factories etc re-locating to eastern europe in order cut labour costs.



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