Pentagon chief Mattis quits, citing policy differences with Trump

[Mavideol]

5 hours ago, morrobay said:

The swamp in this area started with the absurd invasion of Iraq after 9/11 (like invading Finland after Pear Harbor ) Then the increasing nation building in 12th century Afghanistan. That that hapless Bush dragged everyone into. And your criticizing Trump for trying to end this ridiculous costly, lives and $$$$ situation ???? Like all above jumping on anti Trump bandwagon. The only reason I don't like trump is because of his weak dollar policy.

 

The only reason I don't like trump is because of his weak dollar policy..... how do you want him to make deals with a strong dollar, who would be stupid enough to buy from the US with a strong dollar, by having a weak dollar he can claim the economy is booming....

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 minutes ago, Just1Voice said:

Who says I have to "pick a side"?  As I said, I tend to agree with most, but not all, of Trumps decisions, and this is one I don't agree with.  Doesn't change my feelings for him as POTUS in the least.  I simply think this is not a good decision. 

 

 

You're not just choosing a side about who's going to be Defense Secretary. You're choosing to follow Trump rather than Mattis on a whole series of U.S. foreign policy / military issues that many consider crucial to U.S. national security -- Syria, Afghanistan, North Korea, combatting terrorism, the proper use of the U.S. military.

 

Mattis leaving isn't about personalities. It's about POLICIES. And he obviously felt, as a professional soldier, he could no longer serve an imposter president who's repeatedly making foreign policy / military policy decisions that directly contradict the professional military advice that Mattis and other leaders in the U.S. military were giving him.

 

That's the illegitimate, uninformed, foreign policy ignorant side you're choosing, even if you can't bring yourself to admit it.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[morrobay]

39 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

The only reason I don't like trump is because of his weak dollar policy..... how do you want him to make deals with a strong dollar, who would be stupid enough to buy from the US with a strong dollar, by having a weak dollar he can claim the economy is booming....

How about making deals based on a strong economy that attracts foreign investment from fundamentals IE infrastructure instead of sugar coated weak currency. And don't forget the US imports more than it exports including the foreign supply chains in export sector. 

Edited December 21, 2018 by morrobay

[Just1Voice]

30 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You're not just choosing a side about who's going to be Defense Secretary. You're choosing to follow Trump rather than Mattis on a whole series of U.S. foreign policy / military issues that many consider crucial to U.S. national security -- Syria, Afghanistan, North Korea, combatting terrorism, the proper use of the U.S. military.

 

Mattis leaving isn't about personalities. It's about POLICIES. And he obviously felt, as a professional soldier, he could no longer serve an imposter president who's repeatedly making foreign policy / military policy decisions that directly contradict the professional military advice that Mattis and other leaders in the U.S. military were giving him.

 

That's the illegitimate, uninformed, foreign policy ignorant side you're choosing, even if you can't bring yourself to admit it.

 

 

There's where you are reading me wrong.  I totally and completely follow and believe in Mathis 100%.  Which is why I stated originally that the decision to let him go was a bad one. 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 minutes ago, Just1Voice said:

There's where you are reading me wrong.  I totally and completely follow and believe in Mathis 100%.  Which is why I stated originally that the decision to let him go was a bad one. 

 

 

There wasn't a Trump decision to "let him go" or fire Mattis like he's done with many others.  There was a Mattis decision to resign after Trump -- who has absolutely zero military or foreign policy credentials or experience -- repeatedly ignored and contradicted the advice he was getting from Mattis and other senior military leaders on all kinds of important military and foreign policy issues.

 

That's the guy you're supporting over Mattis.

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Just1Voice]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There wasn't a Trump decision to "let him go."  There was a Mattis decision to resign after Trump -- who has absolutely zero military or foreign policy credentials or experience -- repeatedly ignored and contradicted the advice he was getting from Mattis and other senior military leaders on all kinds of important military and foreign policy issues.

 

That's the guy you're supporting over Mattis.

 

You are seriously hard headed.  What part of I totally support Mathis do you not understand.  It was a bad decision on the part of Trump to let him go.  Ok, you have serious problems reading English, so I'm through with you.

 

[Joe Mcseismic]

There was no "decision on the part of Trump to let him go". Mattis quit.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 minutes ago, Just1Voice said:

You are seriously hard headed.  What part of I totally support Mathis do you not understand.  It was a bad decision on the part of Trump to let him go.  Ok, you have serious problems reading English, so I'm through with you.

 

 

OK, perhaps we need a bipolar expert psychiatrist come in and interpret you....

 

As in, I totally support Mattis (his name is Mattis, not Mathis). But I also support Trump who pretty much does the opposite of everything Mattis has been advising him to do. With "supporters" like you, I guess I'd be resigning also.

 

[Cryingdick]

2 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

I generally tend to agree with most, but not all, of Trumps decisions and actions, but not this one.  Mathis is a rare breed, even for a Marine Corps General.  As a 20 year Marine myself, I know what I speak of.  And losing him, his insight and input, will be major.  This man knows the enemy.  He knows how to deal with enemy.  And he knows how to kick their butts.  It will be hard to replace him with anyone even close to his qualifications. 

 

 

If we leave the region we no longer need a man who can kick their butts. There is nobody to replace if we exit. 

[rudi49jr]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

Yes, those things really didn't make sense.

But withdrawing from Syria now, and possibly Afghanistan as well, simply doesn't make sense with the present middle East policy in mind. It will strengthen daesh, Russia, Iran, Turkey; it will weaken the Kurds, Taliban and religious extremism.

You are absolutely right about the Kurds and it's them I feel most sorry for. They have been screwed over by world powers for more than a century, but they are probably the only reason that daesh didn't conquer a much bigger part of Syria and especially Iraq. The Kurds fought very bravely, while the Iraqi army, although vastly outnumbering daesh, fled with their tails between their legs and left cities like Mosul to a three year reign of terror under daesh. And now that the Americans are leaving the Kurds will be screwed once more.  

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There wasn't a Trump decision to "let him go" or fire Mattis like he's done with many others.  There was a Mattis decision to resign after Trump -- who has absolutely zero military or foreign policy credentials or experience -- repeatedly ignored and contradicted the advice he was getting from Mattis and other senior military leaders on all kinds of important military and foreign policy issues.

 

That's the guy you're supporting over Mattis.

 

Didn't Trump go to a military cadet academy before or during the Vietnam war?

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Didn't Trump go to a military cadet academy before or during the Vietnam war?

 

ya, Trump went to the New York Military Academy for what was the equivalent of his high schooling, prior to getting 5 deferments during his college years to avoid draft during the Vietnam War, including the final one post graduation from college for supposed bone spurs in his heel/heels.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/donald-trump-draft-record.html

 

Does attending a high school military academy count in your book as military experience?  Like on the same level with a 30 or 40 year career Marine Corps officer?

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Nigel Garvie]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Don't think it will strengthen Daesh at all. Syria, Iran, Hebollah and Russia are more than well equipped enough to handles Daesh. Daesh's only hope is Turkey. But the US and the Kurds were not going to take on Turkey anyway.

Absolutely, the Syrian Army containing Shia's and Sunnis, Shia Iran and Hebollah, and Russia with long experience of Islamic fundamentalism within it's borders, know Daesh only too well, and know how to deal with them the only way, which is brutally IMHO. The West messed up totally from the start by supporting the Sunni terrorists of Nusrah al Fatah (Al Qaeda) and the rest at the behest of the Saudis. The remainers are the groups of Sunni Terrorists being supported by Turkey around Idlib etc.

Turkey is the greatest threat to the West with a Fascist Dictator in command, garnering support from Putin and Trump with arms deals etc (Funny to see Trump and Putin together again - are they having an affair - tax returns anyone!). Erdogan is preparing Genocide against the Kurds, ask the Armenians,  but Dumph hasn't the balls to defend his former allies in the fight against Daesh. Ironically, by accident Dumph might just be right, the US forces might just as well go home for the use they would be fighting Sunni terrorists and Islamofascists. People who buy arms from Uncle Sam are friends, money doesn't talk, it swears.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Nigel Garvie
omission

[mtls2005]

24 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Didn't Trump go to a military cadet academy before or during the Vietnam war?

 

Back in the day, overbearing fathers sent recalcitrant sons bound for hoodlum to military high schools (poor folks got juvie, or had to enlist), mostly as a form of punishment, but in hopes that some discipline would bring them around. trump's older brother, Fred Jr. was the favored son, and that should tell you something about our president's current personality disorder(s).

[Redline]

10 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

As it's a DOD posting, nothing less than a Survivor or American Gladiator fourth runner up or higher will have the necessary qualifications.

I think it depends on ratings ????

[farcanell]

11 hours ago, morrobay said:

The swamp in this area started with the absurd invasion of Iraq after 9/11 (like invading Finland after Pear Harbor ) Then the increasing nation building in 12th century Afghanistan. That that hapless Bush dragged everyone into. And your criticizing Trump for trying to end this ridiculous costly, lives and $$$$ situation ???? Like all above jumping on anti Trump bandwagon. The only reason I don't like trump is because of his weak dollar policy.

 

???????????? and you also like trump because he plays hard and fast with the truth... surely... as it seems to be a shared passion.

 

now... you were saying that the US invaded Finland, in 1943, as that correct?

[spidermike007]

The withdrawal from Syria, when only 2,000 highly trained specialists and special ops guys were over there, getting alot done, was perhaps one of the dumbest moves, of this raging idiot's presidency, thus far. The degree to which he is uninformed, unwilling to take good advice, and listen to the experts, is part and parcel of who this man is. Mattis was the right man for the job. He was well liked, well respected, and smart, with alot of experience, a valuable asset for a man who got five deferments, and refused to serve his nation. Yet, he lost Mattis. He let him get away. Mattis did not resign. He quit the team, because he knew what a moron Trump is, and could not deal with it anymore. His valuable, and hard earned advice was not being listened to. And Mattis is not the kind of guy to take quitting lightly. Not his style at all. 

 

My guess, is that in the little mind of the Don, he figured it might distract from all of the unpleasant news. The opposite has happened. Trump betrayed yet another ally, and gifted yet another adversary. He is weak. And his greatest weakness seems to be foreign policy. What is this now, the 47th person to have resigned or been fired, in 24 months? That has got to be a record.

 

The one lesson to be learned from all of this is that no ally can count on the USA anymore, not while this guy is leading the nation into the abyss. He betrayed the Kurds, and gave Putin a very nice Christmas gift, allowing him to claim victory in Russia, while Trump racks up yet another loss. The degree to which this guy gets played is quite a think to behold. 

 

Donald Trump. Making America less great, less safe, and less relevant, by the day. The art of I cannot negotiate my way out of a paper bag. 

[Jingthing]

People should be marching in the streets by now. It's crystal clear the illegitimate US president cares only about saving his skin and wealth and nothing about the American people. He's clearly compromised by multiple foreign dictators including Putin and Erdogan. Our presidents are supposed to be our servants. He's twisted that around.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[keemapoot]

^ Listening to some foreign policy analysts in Europe tonight who are astounded not at the Iraq move, but rather at the pull out of troops from Afghanistan. They say this is the biggest coup for Putin and that Russia has already been negotiating with the Taliban. So, it's amazing how in one day of errant moves by Trump, alienating himself away from military and foreign policy expertise like Mattis, he has managed to upset the entire global power balance, shifting much power to Russia in the process.

 

Amazing to watch Trump deconstruct the American Empire...Exactly what Russia wanted him to do...

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

People should be marching in the streets by now. It's crystal clear the illegitimate US president cares only about saving his skin and wealth and nothing about the American people. He's clearly compromised by multiple foreign dictators including Putin and Erdogan. Our presidents are supposed to be our servants. He's twisted that around.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

Absolutely true words. Those that have given him support up until now, should pay heed. He is a traitor. The interests of the average American, and the nation mean nothing to him. Trump is a total non patriot, draft dodging, bankruptcy king. Now, he has put the nation in peril, with this incomprehensibly foolish move. The only two people I have heard, that approve of his withdrawal, were Putin and Erdogan. 

 

The fact of the matter is this jeopardizes our ally, the Kurds, who were beating back the ISIS fighters. 

 

An abrupt US withdrawal would mean abandoning Washington’s closest ally inside Syria, the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces, which has done most of the fighting in clearing Isis fighters out of its strongholds. They are being threatened with a cross-border offensive from Turkey, which sees them as indistinguishable from Kurdish Workers’ party (PKK) militants inside Turkey. “We are well along in clearing Isis from the ground that they’ve held in Syria [but] we still have a lot of work to do in terms of the stabilisation phase,” the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, Gen Joseph Dunford, said earlier this month. Dunford said US soldiers had only progressed 20% along the way towards its target of training up to 40,000 local fighters to keep Isis in check.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/19/us-troops-syria-withdrawal-trump

 

Losing Mattis is going to be catastrophic for Trump, and may be his biggest loss to date.

 

Mr Mattis was long seen as a force for stability in foreign policy in an administration that has had to manage crises from North Korea to Syria under a President who prides himself on his unpredictability. But like other senior national security advisers, he was believed to have pushed back on Mr Trump's decision this week to abruptly withdraw American troops from Syria. After Mr Trump said he'd nominate Mr Mattis for the top Pentagon job, the late Senator John McCain hailed him as "one of the finest military officers of his generation and an extraordinary leader who inspires a rare and special admiration of his troops". Short and wiry with a brush-cut haircut, Mr Mattis was known as the "Warrior Monk" and sometimes as "Mad Dog", a nickname he disliked as much as Mr Trump loved invoking it. At the Pentagon, he followed a succession of defence chiefs - Mr Ash Carter, Mr Chuck Hagel and Mr Leon Panetta - who each lasted about two years in office.

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/mattis-resigns-as-defense-chief-citing-differences-with-trump

 

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by spidermike007

[Guest]

Most of you might not be aware that there was, in 2012, a solution to this Syrian mess, on the table. 

 

The solution was talked between Russia and USA. The solution was to oust Syrian leader and to create a stabile state in Syria. 

 

This solution was rejected by USA. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/15/west-ignored-russian-offer-in-2012-to-have-syrias-assad-step-aside

 

 

[Prissana Pescud]

15 hours ago, Tug said:

Kudos gen.Mattis obviously a man with morals and intelligence how can anyone of quality work for someone like trump?

It took him 2 years to come to that conclusion

[bristolboy]

Let's not get too carried away by Mattis. He had a kind of obsession about opposing Iran that led him to oppose confronting Saudi Arabia and more specifically Mohammed bin Salman. Advocating continued US support for that dangerous loon was a huge mistake.

[Prissana Pescud]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Absolutely true words. Those that have given him support up until now, should pay heed. He is a traitor. The interests of the average American, and the nation mean nothing to him. Trump is a total non patriot, draft dodging, bankruptcy king. Now, he has put the nation in peril, with this incomprehensibly foolish move. The only two people I have heard, that approve of his withdrawal, were Putin and Erdogan. 

 

The fact of the matter is this jeopardizes our ally, the Kurds, who were beating back the ISIS fighters. 

 

An abrupt US withdrawal would mean abandoning Washington’s closest ally inside Syria, the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces, which has done most of the fighting in clearing Isis fighters out of its strongholds. They are being threatened with a cross-border offensive from Turkey, which sees them as indistinguishable from Kurdish Workers’ party (PKK) militants inside Turkey. “We are well along in clearing Isis from the ground that they’ve held in Syria [but] we still have a lot of work to do in terms of the stabilisation phase,” the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, Gen Joseph Dunford, said earlier this month. Dunford said US soldiers had only progressed 20% along the way towards its target of training up to 40,000 local fighters to keep Isis in check.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/19/us-troops-syria-withdrawal-trump

 

Losing Mattis is going to be catastrophic for Trump, and may be his biggest loss to date.

 

Mr Mattis was long seen as a force for stability in foreign policy in an administration that has had to manage crises from North Korea to Syria under a President who prides himself on his unpredictability. But like other senior national security advisers, he was believed to have pushed back on Mr Trump's decision this week to abruptly withdraw American troops from Syria. After Mr Trump said he'd nominate Mr Mattis for the top Pentagon job, the late Senator John McCain hailed him as "one of the finest military officers of his generation and an extraordinary leader who inspires a rare and special admiration of his troops". Short and wiry with a brush-cut haircut, Mr Mattis was known as the "Warrior Monk" and sometimes as "Mad Dog", a nickname he disliked as much as Mr Trump loved invoking it. At the Pentagon, he followed a succession of defence chiefs - Mr Ash Carter, Mr Chuck Hagel and Mr Leon Panetta - who each lasted about two years in office.

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/mattis-resigns-as-defense-chief-citing-differences-with-trump

 

 

It is a huge quote by you but 100% correct. Trump has abandoned the Kurds with demands from Russia and Turkey. (And why would that be?)

 If in this case the US voters do not see that scum has risen to the top of the swamp, nothing will.

[bristolboy]

37 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Most of you might not be aware that there was, in 2012, a solution to this Syrian mess, on the table. 

 

The solution was talked between Russia and USA. The solution was to oust Syrian leader and to create a stabile state in Syria. 

 

This solution was rejected by USA. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/15/west-ignored-russian-offer-in-2012-to-have-syrias-assad-step-aside

 

 

The question is could Russia have actually delivered on that offer. They tried the same thing in 2016 and Assad firmly nixed it.

[candide]

I'm lost about the distinction between calling them Daesh or ISIL. What the hidden meaning of calling them Daesh?

[Ron19]

A number of off topic and bickering posts have been reported and removed.

 

Could you please help us and yourselves by stating why you are reporting a post.

 

[Ron19]

Troll post removed.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, candide said:

I'm lost about the distinction between calling them Daesh or ISIL. What the hidden meaning of calling them Daesh?

Daesh is an Arabic language insult. One interpretation is...

 

"bigots who impose their views on others".

[Kiwiken]

Once again the Sane Ones leave. Leaving the Orange Madman and his Cronies to decide the fate of the World. Alienated from all Allies America is great again. legends in your own minds.

Perhaps Sanity may return in 2020