They refused my entry into Thailand

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

Your list of "lawless" entry points is getting longer Jack.

Not really - we have known Krabi and Phuket airports had bad reports - even before the Bangkok airports went bad.  CM Airport still reports green, and all land-borders except Poipet/Aranya.  Let's hope the bad-guys trying to harm Thailand this way don't buy-out any more entry-points.

 

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

Where does it say they need proof? That said, I would appeal on that basis if I was genuinely not working.

What are they basing it on, if not proof / evidence?  "Suspicion" is not in the statute.

 

Maybe they would have let him file a legal appeal at that entry-point.  So far, we just have the one case to go on in Bangkok, and they would not let that guy do it. 

 

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

As I have explained, many times now. Having 20K only satisfies 12.9; not 12.2 or 12.3. Someone with 20K in their pocket could still be working, and 20K is not enough to live on.

In that case, and combined with no need for proof of a violation, all visas are useless at these lawless entry points - it's just a matter of who they are targeting today.  Never know, tomorrow, when the law-books have been thrown into a dumpster fire.

 

After all, anyone could be working illegally.  Never mind that the guy showed bank minimum-money for 6 months, employment, etc - to get his METV.

 

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

These days -- anyone using visa exempt or tourist visas to live in the country -- can at anytime come unstuck. A fact people need to accept. 

He was gone for 4 months this year, and has to leave every 60-90 days, in any case.  As long as he is still eating, traveling, and has 20K Baht, looks like he had the money to sustain himself - it's self-evident.

 

Those using "entry-points gone-bad" are taking a dangerous chance, though - since they cannot rely on the laws/rules being applied.

[farangx]

38 minutes ago, Klaus77 said:

I had the key of my home in Italy because I live alone there and the key of motorbike too it's not difficult to understand and Klaus is my nick name .. Claudio the real name..is difficult to understand that????

I have to say so far your information provided to everyone here makes it impossible to establish a time line of your trip to Thailand since January.  If you are dealing with the IO in the same manner, hardly surprising he refused you entry.  You have a METV, that allows you to stand in front of the IO on arrival as far as it goes, whether you can proceed beyond that depends on the IO.  

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

As for trains etc...I would rather be trapped in doof doof disco

The Malaysian trains / system have been upgraded fairly recently - very nice, and reasonably fast (not "bullet" - but not like the rickety rails in parts of Thailand - though I even enjoyed those for a change of pace/scenery). 

 

Here's a good reference to timetables, etc - looks like 5 time-options which will go KL to Pedang Besar w/o changing trains:

https://www.seat61.com/Malaysia.htm#Singapore_-_Kuala_Lumpur_-_Penang_-_Bangkok

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, farangx said:

I have to say so far your information provided to everyone here makes it impossible to establish a time line of your trip to Thailand since January.  If you are dealing with the IO in the same manner, hardly surprising he refused you entry.  You have a METV, that allows you to stand in front of the IO on arrival as far as it goes, whether you can proceed beyond that depends on the IO.  

 

Having read many similar reports, I know what happened. 

• He entered holding a Valid Visa (METV). 
• The IO (or his boss) doesn't think the law on Tourist entries is restrictive enough, so said there is a "180 day limit" - to spite this rule not existing in any form, ever, for Tourist Visa entries. 
• Then, to cover up his lie about the 180-day rule, the IO made up another lie, claiming the guy was working in Thailand illegally, and stamped his passport with this, as the "official" reason for refusing entry (because, it's totally reasonable to assume an Italian guy wanted to undercut a Burmese maid on an L-Visa, earning 200 Baht / 10+ hour-day). 

This pattern is, unfortunately, not uncommon at lawless entry-points.  It's actually famous Thai-immigration behavior, known to many travelers around the world, including those who have never been to Thailand, who spend Billions of lost-baht per-year elsewhere, as a direct result.

[Spidey]

9 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The Malaysian trains / system have been upgraded fairly recently - very nice, and reasonably fast (not "bullet" - but not like the rickety rails in parts of Thailand - though I even enjoyed those for a change of pace/scenery). 

 

Here's a good reference to timetables, etc - looks like 5 time-options which will go KL to Pedang Besar w/o changing trains:

https://www.seat61.com/Malaysia.htm#Singapore_-_Kuala_Lumpur_-_Penang_-_Bangkok

 

It must have been a recent upgrade. 4 years ago, I travelled from Singapore to Penang on sleeper trains. 1st Class+ tickets. Absolute nightmare. train would have been condemned in any Western country. Never slept a wink. Clackety-clack. External door constantly banging as the porters kept it open for air. Worst train journeys ever - never again.

[farangx]

14 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

 

Having read many similar reports, I know what happened. 

 

• He entered holding a Valid Visa (METV). 
• The IO (or his boss) doesn't think the law on Tourist entries is restrictive enough, so said there is a "180 day limit" - to spite this rule not existing in any form, ever, for Tourist Visa entries. 
• Then, to cover up his lie about the 180-day rule, the IO made up another lie, claiming the guy was working in Thailand illegally, and stamped his passport with this, as the "official" reason for refusing entry (because, it's totally reasonable to assume an Italian guy wanted to undercut a Burmese maid on an L-Visa, earning 200 Baht / 10+ hour-day). 

This pattern is, unfortunately, not uncommon at lawless entry-points.  It's actually famous Thai-immigration behavior, known to many travelers around the world, including those who have never been to Thailand, who spend Billions of lost-baht per-year elsewhere, as a direct result.

 

Like I said before, holding a valid visa does not guarantee proof of entry.

 

You seemed clouded with too many issues, Thailand's loss of investment due to immigration's actions its "lawlessness".  Are you still happy living in Thailand?  

 

Anyway since you claimed to know of his case, how many months had OP spent in Thailand this year.  By the way, that 20K is likely meant for a tourist here on 1 to 2 weeks holidays.  If 1 to 2 months may required to work as part-time tuk tuk driver ferrying ice.

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by farangx

[YogaVeg]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

I would rather be trapped in doof doof disco.

? Doof doof disco?

[scorecard]

13 minutes ago, YogaVeg said:

? Doof doof disco?

 

A doof or bush doof is a type of outdoor dance party generally held in a remote country area, or outside a large city in surrounding bush or rainforest. ... "Doof doof" is an Australian term for loud electronic music centred on a heavy bass drum kick.

Doof - Wikipedia

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doof

[YogaVeg]

The more I read this kind of carp happening the less interesting Thailand becomes.

Too many other fine places in the world to invest in that won't pull this nonsense

 

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by YogaVeg

[BritTim]

47 minutes ago, farangx said:

Anyway since you claimed to know of his case, how many months had OP spent in Thailand this year.  

Based on his posts, January until May (4-5 months) plus September to December (3 months).

The denial for illegal working is questionable. He must have a very understanding employer to allow him to take a four month leave of absence.

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Based on his posts, January until May (4-5 months) plus September to December (3 months).

The denial for illegal working is questionable. He must have a very understanding employer to allow him to take a four month leave of absence.

BritTim, first of all this post surprises me. Your usually on the spot. Anyway I travel a lot. Meet backpackers Vietnam, Thailand, etc etc. They are taking 1 or 2 gap year. Who the F says he is working for someone. There is lot of rubbish on Thaivisa re silly claims. When I was working I made maybe 100k aud a year. Why do you assume this guy is a bum

[smedly]

3 hours ago, YogaVeg said:

The more I read this kind of carp happening the less interesting Thailand becomes.

Too many other fine places in the world to invest in that won't pull this nonsense

 

 

have to agree, I think it comes down to education, seems to me that some of the people working these borders have been there too long and got placed in these jobs through something other than a legit University degree, the guy has money and wants to spend most of it in Thailand - what the hell is the issue - shocking

 

some real good advise posted here, I hope the OP takes it and has a good experience to offset this debacle 

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

Based on his posts, January until May (4-5 months) plus September to December (3 months).

The denial for illegal working is questionable. He must have a very understanding employer to allow him to take a four month leave of absence.

BritTim, first of all this post surprises me. Your usually on the spot. Anyway I travel a lot. Meet backpackers Vietnam, Thailand, etc etc. They are taking 1 or 2 gap year. Who the F says he is working for someone. There is lot of rubbish on Thaivisa re silly claims. When I was working I made maybe 100k aud a year. Why do you assume this guy is a bum

I think you misunderstood my point. The OP was denied entry due to (officially) working illegally in Thailand. I was trying to suggest that most Thai employers would not have allowed him to spend from May until September back in Italy. That made the accusation of illegal working doubtful.

[edwardandtubs]

4 hours ago, Spidey said:

It must have been a recent upgrade. 4 years ago, I travelled from Singapore to Penang on sleeper trains. 1st Class+ tickets. Absolute nightmare. train would have been condemned in any Western country. Never slept a wink. Clackety-clack. External door constantly banging as the porters kept it open for air. Worst train journeys ever - never again.

About the same number of years ago I travelled between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur on a day train and it was absolutely fine. You don't even need a sleeper from Kuala Lumpur to the Thai border. You'd have to be a total wuss if you can't stand a few hours of that.

[SheungWan]

7 hours ago, elviajero said:

These days -- anyone using visa exempt or tourist visas to live in the country -- can at anytime come unstuck. A fact people need to accept.

This appears to be the core issue. Whereas over 50 year olds have alternative visa options to consider, under 50 year olds do not have the same. Like it or not, an under 50 year old might be best planning to base themselves elsewhere. Sure, some may already have established relationships and families in Thailand and will continue as they have taking on board the risks, but the single guys without serious ties, time to seriously consider alternative locations.

 

[GeorgeCross]

9 hours ago, elviajero said:

It is not about not being wanted. The METV visa is not meant to be used to "live" in the country.

 

i agree, my interpretation is it's meant to be used for extended tourist visits with or without multiple entries. the op was out of the country for 5 months and then spent 3 months here which was roughly half the METV's duration and could only be defined as an extended tourist visit (unless a 3 month stay is now classes as permanent residency lol!). 

 

on his allowed reentry he was denied re-entry.

 

it all seems above board to me. otherwise why issue tourist visas with 6 month durations!?

 

 

[YogaVeg]

2 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

About the same number of years ago I travelled between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur on a day train and it was absolutely fine. You don't even need a sleeper from Kuala Lumpur to the Thai border. You'd have to be a total wuss if you can't stand a few hours of that.

Your compassion is underwhelming. The poor guy was on a sleeper in which he couldn't sleep.

You try skipping a night's sleep whilst traveling and see how nice a memory that is 

[YogaVeg]

26 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

all seems above board to me. otherwise why issue tourist visas with 6 month durations!?

Word. The OP got screwed, playing by their rules too.

I feel genuinely sorry for him.

 

What a effin gamble. Pay for a visa, go through the process that entails, buy an international air ticket, make all your plans, just to get turned away.

 

Does this happen at any other SE Asia countries?

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by YogaVeg

[MekkOne]

9 hours ago, Klaus77 said:

I had the key of my home in Italy because I live alone there and the key of motorbike too it's not difficult to understand and Klaus is my nick name .. Claudio the real name..is difficult to understand that????

I'm sorry for what happened amico, but if this was your attitude at the checkpoint at Krabi APT I'm not surprised you've been refused to enter, keep cool and answer the IO questions without getting angry or upset is the best way to get thru. I believe you didn't keep your cool and as result you've been turned away, I'm Italian too and I've seen the attitude of my countrymen put them in trouble several times, you don't have any right at a border checkpoint, you must answer quietly to the IO question and keep cool, and say thank you even if they are not so nice.

 

Now put your shit together and try to enter the border from SADAO or PEDANG BESAR, cash on hands, onward ticket, hotel reservation, nice smile and friendly attitude if you get questioned (assuming that your visa still valid and not expired of course). If you have a Thai GF as you said get her to come down to Malaysia and enter Thailand with you, this is another easy way to deal with the IOs at the border.

 

Buona Fortuna.

Edited December 23, 2018 by MekkOne

[Odysseus123]

8 minutes ago, MekkOne said:

I'm sorry for what happened amico, but if this was your attitude at the checkpoint at Krabi APT I'm not surprised you've been refused to enter, keep cool and answer the IO questions without getting angry or upset is the best way to get thru. I believe you didn't keep your cool and as result you've been turned away, I'm Italian too and I've seen the attitude of my countrymen put them in trouble several times, you don't have any right at a border checkpoint, you must answer quietly to the IO question and keep cool, and say thank you even if they are not so nice.

 

Now put your shit together and try to enter the border from SADAO or PEDANG BESAR, cash on hands, onward ticket, hotel reservation, nice smile and friendly attitude if you get questioned (assuming that your visa still valid and not expired of course). If you have a Thai GF as you said get her to come down to Malaysia and enter Thailand with you, this is another easy way to deal with the IOs at the border.

 

Buona Fortuna.

I see nothing wrong with his attitude.

 

"bewilderment" seems to have been the prevailing reaction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Odysseus123

[TSF]

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

This appears to be the core issue. Whereas over 50 year olds have alternative visa options to consider, under 50 year olds do not have the same. Like it or not, an under 50 year old might be best planning to base themselves elsewhere. Sure, some may already have established relationships and families in Thailand and will continue as they have taking on board the risks, but the single guys without serious ties, time to seriously consider alternative locations.

 

Whole heartedly agree with this. In my own case I'm on retirement extensions and in a very close long-term relationship, and have a pension, so the toughening up immigration regulations in Thailand don't really effect me much. However, if I was younger and unattached I'd be out of there like a shot. 

[stevenl]

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

I think you misunderstood my point. The OP was denied entry due to (officially) working illegally in Thailand. I was trying to suggest that most Thai employers would not have allowed him to spend from May until September back in Italy. That made the accusation of illegal working doubtful.

I know many people working here, e.g. as dive instructors, who are spending months working at home and in season working in Thailand, with a workpermit. And his absence (May to September) does coincide with that.

 

So it is far from unlikely he works in Thailand part of the year.

 

But working or not in this case may not be the real issue. It very much looks like he is living in Thailand on tourist visa. And people who follow what is happening without any prejudices know that that is frowned upon and can lead to difficulties.

Edited December 23, 2018 by stevenl

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, YogaVeg said:

Word. The OP got screwed, playing by their rules too.

I feel genuinely sorry for him.

 

What a effin gamble. Pay for a visa, go through the process that entails, buy an international air ticket, make all your plans, just to get turned away.

 

Does this happen at any other SE Asia countries?

If you have a Visa in advance and coming from a higher-wage nation (i.e. not likely to be coming to work) - not that I am aware. 

 

If you are entering Visa-Exempt / 90-day upon-entry at Singapore or Malaysia, expect problems on your 2nd or 3rd entry, unless gone for some months between.  In the case of Singapore, wages are higher, and they are one of the most notorious police-states on Earth.  In the case of Malaysia, maybe OK if you come from a nation that shares the ruling-party's culture - otherwise, only if you are making big investments. 

 

Laos is still a somewhat closed-society on some levels.  I am not sure about visa-runs, but longer-stayers can buy business visas.  Myanmar - no idea of their tourist-policy.

 

Cambodia, Vietnam, and The PI have no problem what so ever with serial Tourist-Entry users.  Cambodia will give you a year at a time in-country if you pay $5 extra for your VOA ('ordinary' visa vs 'tourist' - no extra documents), and The PI will let you extend a tourist-entry for 3 years in-country then border-bounce and repeat - happily.

 

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

I know many people working here, e.g. as dive instructors, who are spending months working at home and in season working in Thailand, with a workpermit. And his absence (May to September) does coincide with that.

 

So it is far from unlikely he works in Thailand part of the year.

Easy to end that - it's the same solution in all countries.  In this case, go where the boats leave the docks and bust all involved.  Give the illegal-workers and their bosses the max in jail and fines (increase the legal-max in the law, if necessary, to create a sufficient deterrent).  After that, no one will dare to work or hire illegally here any more.  

 

This goal can Never Be Accomplished by immigration - only by officials where the illegal work is occurring.  There is no sense trashing Thailand's reputation having IOs make uninformed guesses, if stopping illegal work were actually the goal.

 

Quote

But working or not in this case may not be the real issue. It very much looks like he is living in Thailand on tourist visa. And people who follow what is happening without any prejudices know that that is frowned upon and can lead to difficulties.

One cannot "be living here" and "spend months at home every year" at the same time. 

 

But, as we all know - considering the cases where the IOs counted back past a year to get "180 days" - or the ones where they went after returning-snowbirds, gone for months - there is no "standard" at bad entry points.  All one will find at those locations is someone with authority who doesn't give a flip what the law says; what they "feel like doing" at that moment is all that counts.

Edited December 23, 2018 by JackThompson

[mngmn]

1 hour ago, TSF said:

...In my own case I'm on retirement extensions and in a very close long-term relationship, and have a pension, so the toughening up immigration regulations in Thailand don't really effect me much...

Until of course they start tightening up retirement extensions ????

[GeorgeCross]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

I know many people working here, e.g. as dive instructors, who are spending months working at home and in season working in Thailand, with a workpermit. And his absence (May to September) does coincide with that.

 

So it is far from unlikely he works in Thailand part of the year.

 

But working or not in this case may not be the real issue. It very much looks like he is living in Thailand on tourist visa. And people who follow what is happening without any prejudices know that that is frowned upon and can lead to difficulties.

 

regardless of whether it's possible or not its impossible for the OP to prove he's not working and without solid proof IO's shouldn't be free to just deny entries on a suspicion/gut feeling/skin color/whim/bad day, etc

what the hell happened to this country? it used to be such a fun loving, free, easy going place.

take that all away and all thats left is dirty beaches, corruption and scams. shame.

 

 

[JackThompson]

27 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

what the hell happened to this country? it used to be such a fun loving, free, easy going place.

It still is that place, if you enter at law-abiding entry points, or once you get past the bad immigration points.

[onera1961]

56 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

It still is that place, if you enter at law-abiding entry points, or once you get past the bad immigration points.

No it is not. I could spend all night drinking in Sukhumvit side walk bars. Gone. I am asked to undergo a urine test this year just after I arrived from Amsterdam. You know what happens. Yes, they found something which is perfectly legal in Amsterdam and I had to bribe. This is a police state. People in power can make up any rules they want. This place is also becoming expensive. I just spent one moth in Benidorm and my expenditures are almost the same as a tourist in Bangkok. Bangkok is now in the top 100 most expensive city for the expats. Thailand has lost its charms. 

 

Refusing entry with an METV is outrageous. 

Edited December 23, 2018 by onera1961

[marcusarelus]

25 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

No it is not. I could spend all night drinking in Sukhumvit side walk bars. Gone. I am asked to undergo a urine test this year just after I arrived from Amsterdam. You know what happens. Yes, they found something which is perfectly legal in Amsterdam and I had to bribe. This is a police state. People in power can make up any rules they want. This place is also becoming expensive. I just spent one moth in Benidorm and my expenditures are almost the same as a tourist in Bangkok. Bangkok is now in the top 100 most expensive city for the expats. Thailand has lost its charms. 

 

Refusing entry with an METV is outrageous. 

What country don't the people in power make the rules? 

[DieterK]

Hello,

while reading this, I´m getting a bit nervous about my upcoming border bounce.
My question is, should I pack all my stuff and bring to the border (clothes, laptop, etc.) to have it with me, if they deny my entry?

 

So far my history this year:

- Dec 2017 visa exempt entry by air to BKK
- Jan 2018 leaving TH for neighbor country
- Jan 2018 visa exempt entry by air to BKK
- Feb 2018 30 day visa extension at Samui IO
- March 2018 leaving TH to home country

 

- June 2018 visa exempt entry by air to BKK
- Jule 2018 30 day visa extension at Cheang Wattana IO

- Jule 2018 leaving TH to home country

 

- Sept 2018 applying for METV in home country

- Sept 2018 METV entry by air to BKK
- Nov 2018 Border bounce Kanchanaburi/Myanmar

 

- Planned: Dec 2018 Border bounce at Padang Besar

 

I have 20K, proof of hotel booking, proof of onward flight.

Only the history looks a bit "too much".

 

Whats your opinion?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

EDIT: I plan to do another bounce at Padang Besar end of Feb 2019, few days before my METV expires, to get another 60 days. Should be ok, or?

Edited December 23, 2018 by DieterK

[jackdd]

8 minutes ago, DieterK said:

- Planned: Dec 2018 Border bounce at Padang Besar

 

I have 20K, proof of hotel booking, proof of onward flight.

Only the history looks a bit "too much".

 

Whats your opinion?

 

Thanks in advance!

Should be no problem, the land borders except Poipet follow the written rules