Move to make health insurance mandatory for long-stay visas

[Thaimarkz]

Well, to be true, a health-insurance for expats is long overdue. At least an expat with a Non-Imm-O visa, which have resulted in a retirement visa,  should be insured as an in-patient. Unfortunately, older people tend to be hospitalized and have to be treated as an in-patient for some time. I had a hip replacement and was happy to have an insurance which covered the 600'000 Baht. But to ask for an insurance for out-patients, is ridiculous. Outpatient treatments are not very expensive and expats should be able to cover that. The greater risk is the miserable party tourists, who drive drunk with the hired motorcycles and cause accidents or the drunk who swim and go diving without having a travel insurance.

Personal remark: All foreigners who have settled in a country without a health insurance are stupid idiots. Especially in a country that is number one in traffic accidents worldwide.

And now, Season's Greetings, Helleluya

 

[keemapoot]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I've heard that all bald foreigners will be expected to have an hair transplant before an extension will be issued.

...and those who have hair will be required to dye it black or face deportation.

[marcusarelus]

37 minutes ago, jesimps said:

He didn't mention the astronomical premium either, but that's irrelevant to rich goody-goody types.

My preexisting conditions are covered by VA and my hospital will direct bill.  Does that make me a rich goody goody type? 

[Lizard2010]

17 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Agreed-  Tourists need to be assessed a fee for health insurance coverage each time they book and pay for a trip to Thailand.  There is also a fee already in the ticket cost for security.  A fee of 300-500 Baht per person adds up to a hefty amount and forms a pool of money used exclusively for healthcare issues.

 

Long Term residents need to also be part of the pool but  the cost would be somewhat higher per month/year.  There are 75,000 Americans in Thailand long term and I would guess close to 1 million of all nationalities- Again - a huge pool of money coming in yearly. this should be more than enough to provide adequate coverage for everyone. This would be for catastrophic care. Outpatient would be up to the individual/

I agree

But they want more money

[Pattaya46]

3 minutes ago, Thaimarkz said:

// But to ask for an insurance for out-patients, is ridiculous. Outpatient treatments are not very expensive and expats should be able to cover that. 

Sorry, I may understand it wrongly, but why many people saying that Outpatient insurance is ridiculous or too-expensive ?

For me "Outpatient services are medical procedures or tests that can be done in a medical center without an overnight stay" (thanks Google)

I remember a guy who badly cut is foot with a tool; He arrived hospital on morning and stayed nearly all the day, with X-ray, small surgery, drugs, care and dressings... For his insurance it was Outpatient even if the total bill exceeded 50'000B...

Seems hospital more and more try to do in 1 day what before needed 2 with a 1 night stay.

So doesn't seem ridiculous to me to require such an Outpatient insurance.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Pedrogaz said:

I haven't seen any coverage for 50,000 baht a year....and by age 65 you are looking at about 300K baht a year with some many exclusions you have almost no cover. 

 

 

Absolute nonsense. Rates for expat policies from international companies for someone aged 65 - 69 range from 75 - 150K depending n the company, and that's without deductibles.

 

No exclusions at all unless you have a chronic pre-existing condition.

 

At 66 I pay under 3000 USD a year for 1 million in cover, no exclusions.

 

Even at age over 80 the premiums don't hit 300K.

[giddyup]

37 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Rubbish?? Which part?

My country publishes yearly statistics on its citizens living abroad.

For Thailand, less than 1/3 are retirees, more than 1/2 are working.

Do you know many people on Work Permit who don't have an Health Insurance?

 

Saying that "60% of expats here are not insurable" would suggest that majority of expats are (old) retirees when in reality retirees make less than 1/3 of expats... (at least for my country)

So they publish how many French people living in Thailand and how many of them have health insurance? How does that extrapolate to all the many other nationalities that are either working or retired here, and what percentage are French?

[Sheryl]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Sorry, I may understand it wrongly, but why many people saying that Outpatient insurance is ridiculous or too-expensive ?

For me "Outpatient services are medical procedures or tests that can be done in a medical center without an overnight stay" (thanks Google)

I remember a guy who badly cut is foot with a tool; He arrived hospital on morning and stayed nearly all the day, with X-ray, small surgery, drugs, care and dressings... For his insurance it was Outpatient even if the total bill exceeded 50'000B...

Seems hospital more and more try to do in 1 day what before needed 2 with a 1 night stay.

So doesn't seem ridiculous to me to require such an Outpatient insurance.

Most inpatient only policies cover day admissions and day surgeries as well as outpatient dialysis and outpatient cancer treatment. It is the simple consultation visits that there is no need to cover (and the additional premium cost will equal or exceed the maximum value you can claim).

[samran]

does anyone know if you have worked here for a bit, as an expat, can you still contribute to thai social security once you have left employment. I understand the health coverage is pretty okay for what you pay.

[giddyup]

20 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

My preexisting conditions are covered by VA and my hospital will direct bill.  Does that make me a rich goody goody type? 

No, but it doesn't make you the norm either.

[Baerboxer]

17 hours ago, BestB said:

What are the offers from Thai insurance? Last time i checked to get equally as good cover as my International is same if not more.

 

I am in early 40's and paying around 50 000 per year, and it does not include ODP, if i was to add ODP my premium would almost double.

 

Now why on earth do i need to have ODP?, its 600-1000 per visit, why on earth would i want to have insurance which only covers 400 000 hospitalization? Thats 2-3 nights in a decent hospital with a minor surgery, any thing more serious and surgery alone is 400 000 already 

 

Now for those on NON O, insurance premiums are almost double to what i am paying, All i can see is many packing up. Not saying one should not have insurance, but this policy will hurt a few pockets

 

I have a policy with Thai Life, medical insurance and life assurance etc.  Took it out 3 years ago after comparing with several "international" companies targeting expats. Thai Life much more competitive.

 

Yesterday, I was treated as an Outpatient. Had something removed from the sole of my foot, hole about the size of a 10 baht coin.  All in 5.5k ThB. Insurance will pay. Wife also had to have something removed from a toe, small growth, for 4k which again Insurance will pay. 

[from the home of CC]

Next to the cops and transport industry, insurance is probably the 3rd biggest mafia in Thailand.

[Suradit69]

17 hours ago, Maestro said:

The news article talks about the O-A visa, for which application is made at a Thai embassy or consulate.

Yes, long stayers tend to be on retirement or marriage extensions of stay rather than O-A visas. Some people may opt to go home and get a new O-A every two years, but they'd be a small minority.

 

As usual, a total lack of understanding the difference between a visa or an extension of stay (not renewal or extension of a visa).

 

One wonders what they will accept as proof of foreign medical insurance. Sound like it could run into the same problem as verification of income with immigrations officers unprepared to sift through a multitude of incomprehensible foreign documents in various languages.

 

I hope for this they will give us some time to get verification and not spring it on people renewing their extensions almost immediately.

 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

You wrote, "Most insurance companies won't even look at anyone over 70."  Not only is that singularly unhelpful but it is completely untrue.  ????  I had a heart attack and have hypertension and a number of other things.  Like I said check it out and get a price.  I pay under 100,000 baht per year.

"a number of other things" is sufficiently non-specific for my credence in your statements to go walkabout.

[sqwakvfr]

“The Devil is in the Details”

 

The news article specifically mentions the Non Imm OA. 

 

I got an OA from the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles.  I got almost two years on that.  I am now on an extension of the OA.  Therefore, if this proposal goes into effect am I required to have the required 400k/40,000 plan?

 

What about a new applicant for an OA at a consulate who has not been to Thailand before?  How would this type of applicant comply with the new proposed rule?  

 

A lot of the details have to be worked out before this can be implemented.  

 

I currently have health insurance(way beyond the 400k) but I do not have OPD.  

[Vacuum]

4 hours ago, stubby52 said:

Yes only accident and motorcycle cover is only 50k,i cover myself with a bank account with 3 million balance and a high balance mastercard.

Doesn't the compulsory mc insurance cover 30K?

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

... and the gimp suit.  Don't forget the gimp suit... ????

I had to Google that to understand your meaning. Whatever happened to plain old-fashioned bonking?

[spidermike007]

17 hours ago, darksidedog said:

This is for those on O-A visa. It does not  impact those on retirement extensions, although any with sense will have some form of insurance anyway. We have all seen people getting hurt and having to go fund me to pay their bills. The big question is how long before they start focusing on the tourists and insisting they have some insurance too. There are Thai policies which cover this requirement for a few thousand baht and they have to offer cover to people up to 100 years of age, so no worries on the too old bit.

 

None of us are not sure that is the case. I see some definitions of O and OA as the same type of visa. A long term retirement visa. So, it might apply to both. However, all of us are hoping that this absolutely horrendous administration is shown the door, long before any of this would come into effect. It is time they leave. Nobody wants them anymore. Everyone is tired of the army, their stunning level of incompetence, their inability to run the economy, tourism, or willingness to leave all of us alone. They are beyond a nuisance. 

[jesimps]

2 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

For all those threatening to leave Thailand. Go for it. No one cares, least of all the Thais and their government and certainly not any TV posters.

Most aren't saying it to try to piss off the Thais and TV posters, they're stating the fact they aren't prepared to stay and be fleeced any longer by the authorities. I too may be forced to leave if forced to abondon my self insured status. Although I have a reserve in the bank and quite a good pension, at 75 next birthday, I can't affort to pay upwards of 100,000 baht a year for beggar-all return probably, being a fit healthy type, on top of the 800,000 I'll now have to deposit in a bank here to replace the income method that I've used for the last 12 years. It'll break my heart to have to leave my wife and stepdaughter, but needs must and all that. I thought there was a good chance that I'd end my days here, but that's looking extremely unlikely now.

[jesimps]

2 hours ago, Nanaplaza666 said:

Having insurance is a good thing but i think they should start to look at the short time tourists that come first because i think thay are the ones coming without any kind of insurance and costing the country a lot of money with the motorbike accidents and jetski accidents etc etc not being able to pay their bills in my opinion expats are a lot more carefull and i think thats the only reason why they want them to pay quit a lot of money to cover the daredevils expats should have the same kind of chance as locals like the 30 baht kinds of insurances but thats my opinion 

Think that's the first sensible post I've read on this thread. I reckon you've hit the nail on the head. It'd be nice to know how many long-term visa individuals have been unable to pay their hospital bill. I bet you there aren't many, and like me, they use private medical facilities and settle their bill straight away. I also guarantee that from this group, the few that didn't pay put millions of baht into the Thai economy beforehand. I fail to see why they're having a go at us lot. By and large we're a quiet bunch of family types, have houses, Thai wives and children both natural and adopted. We don't cause the police a lot of work and generally our driving is very good. In other words, a law abiding bunch of senior citizens who bring money into the country and provide financial security for Thai citizens.

[Letseng]

6 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Bangkok Bank sell  a policy that provides the level of cover required for this proposed order, covering accident and medical. Costs around 4,000 baht a year. It is not going to cover serious medical treatments, but for those on an O-A it will do the job, because it offers the out patient and in patient levels specified in the OP.

EDIT: This is a very basic policy. I am only 54, so it may be higher for those older. If you have serious health issues, you probably require something more upmarket.

As far as I know this policy covers medical treatment needed due to an accident. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[BestB]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

It is a reasonable request that foreigners should not be a financial-liability to Thais / Thailand.  As I said in the original thread (now closed), revised and extended ...

 

A "stabilize and send-home" policy - avoiding any long-term care for illness - and required of every foreigner based on the permission-of-stay length being issued, would be the most affordable and practical solution. 

 

This protects Thailand from the cost of care for the young traveler who gets hurt on a moto, as well as the older person with a long-term health problem. 

 

Long term expats could obtain discounts, or bypass the entire thing, by setting aside a deductible or full-amount in a locked "health savings acct," refundable at the airport on the air-side of the immigration booths.

 

Of course, anyone who is able, could also purchase a more extensive plan which provides long-term care, or pay out of pocket, so could stay here to receive that care.  But the only purpose in what I propose, is to take the issue of "foreigners' unpaid medical bills" off the table / stick to beat us with - not to solve everyone's total health-care needs.

 

Some have suggested a buy-in to the Thai Health system at current rates (currently ~750 baht/mo max).  But this would be a huge subsidy handout to foreigners, vs a fair actuarial calculation of the cost of providing full-scale health-care to older retirees - even if care was limited to state-hospitals. 

 

I do suggest that a "stabilize and send home" policy should be limited to state-hospitals, but paid by the insurance to the hospital at the "foreigner rate" - the same cost one would pay as-is today, paying cash.  This rate subsidizes Thai care, rather than the reverse - so we offer yet another benefit to the country by being here. 

You can not just buy into Thai social, you have to be employed and then its 5% from you and another 5% from employer.

 

If you stop to work, you can continue paying it, but you have to be employed first.

 

 

[KhunProletariat]

27 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

However, all of us are hoping that this absolutely horrendous administration is shown the door, long before any of this would come into effect. It is time they leave. Nobody wants them anymore. Everyone is tired of the army, their stunning level of incompetence, their inability to run the economy, tourism, or willingness to leave all of us alone. They are beyond a nuisance. 

Couldn't have put it better myself. 

 

They have long outstayed their welcome. The uninvited guest that has stayed till the end, fallen asleep drunk on your couch and raided your fridge in the middle of the night.

 

KP.

Edited December 24, 2018 by KhunProletariat

[marqus12]

are thaivisa servers now in Beijing? or somalia ?

[jesimps]

1 hour ago, Sparkles said:

Very helpful.I know many long term 70+ residents that dont live that lifestyle and are putting their kids through Uni or International Schools you might like to check the cost of that .Not everyone lives in Pattaya

There're a few posters on here who think that apart from themselves, all farang are chain-smoking, womanising alcoholics. A good shrink would sort them out I'm sure.

[jesimps]

1 hour ago, Thaimarkz said:

Well, to be true, a health-insurance for expats is long overdue. At least an expat with a Non-Imm-O visa, which have resulted in a retirement visa,  should be insured as an in-patient. Unfortunately, older people tend to be hospitalized and have to be treated as an in-patient for some time. I had a hip replacement and was happy to have an insurance which covered the 600'000 Baht. But to ask for an insurance for out-patients, is ridiculous. Outpatient treatments are not very expensive and expats should be able to cover that. The greater risk is the miserable party tourists, who drive drunk with the hired motorcycles and cause accidents or the drunk who swim and go diving without having a travel insurance.

Personal remark: All foreigners who have settled in a country without a health insurance are stupid idiots. Especially in a country that is number one in traffic accidents worldwide.

And now, Season's Greetings, Helleluya

 

A lot of us have been here a long time, from when premiums were obtainable and relatively cheap. I used to be able to return to my home country for any expensive treatment if needed which I can't now. My home currency's bombed and I now have to deposit 800,000 in a local bank. Not so stupid, just cought up in unlucky circumstances. If necessary, I'll move elsewhere. Not a threat, just a fact of life.

Edited December 24, 2018 by jesimps

[cmsally]

1 hour ago, samran said:

does anyone know if you have worked here for a bit, as an expat, can you still contribute to thai social security once you have left employment. I understand the health coverage is pretty okay for what you pay.

My american friend worked here years ago and was in the system and kept up,her payments by direct debit when she left thailand. 

She is still in the system and now spends extended periods in Thailand.

[brewsterbudgen]

I have had 7 Farang friends move to either Vietnam or Cambodia in the last year and at last 5 of my Farang friends and myself will not be renewing of retirement visa but moving out of Thailand FOREVER. 

Thailand is not for everyone but has a lot more to offer than Cambodia

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[keemapoot]

Just now, cmsally said:

My american friend worked here years ago and was in the system and kept up,her payments by direct debit when she left thailand. 

She is still in the system and now spends extended periods in Thailand.

If you work in a company that contributes to Thai Social Security, and you work for more than one year for them, and you are not yet 60 years old, then yes, you have this coverage, and can then continue it indefinitely, so long as you exercise the option to pay yourself 3 months after your 60th birthday, or 3 months after your leave the company. Because of this tricky and short time to exercise the option, many expats can not have this coverage. If you had a job with a qualifying employer, then left that job to move to another company that does not contribute, and you did not exercise the option to pay yourself within 90 days, you are out. 

 

So, this is a hit and miss solution for relatively few expats on this forum I would think.

[bkk6060]

2 hours ago, Sparkles said:

Very helpful.I know many long term 70+ residents that dont live that lifestyle and are putting their kids through Uni or International Schools you might like to check the cost of that .Not everyone lives in Pattaya

I am glad it was helpful for you.

70 + putting their kids thru school? 

Geez, the choices some make..

 

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by bkk6060