Tesla's Musk says British Thai cave rescuer's defamation case should be dismissed

[ttrd]

23 hours ago, Card said:

On 12/28/2018 at 5:58 AM, JLCrab said:

If the Musk defense team shows this video in court, the case might end right there.

Nonsense. There is a difference between telling someone what to do and telling someone what they are.

By saying what he said then you are telling someone without doubt what he is....

[outsider]

1 hour ago, Forethat said:

From a strictly legal perspective, there's a distinct difference between urging someone to shove something up his arse (being rude) compared to accusing someone of being a paedophile (defamation).

With that in mind, I'd say Mr Musk is likely to settle this before the case proceeds any further. I'm even willing to bet he does. Just saying...

 

Unsworth backed his statements with facts - the subs were rigid, too big to go around corners etc. That he thinks this is just a PR stunt - well, there have been precedence of Elaine 'the Publicity Whore' Musk doing that (yeah, I don't like him). Coming from the communications sector, I'd say his stunt did reek of nothing more than a childish show-off.

 

[hansnl]

1 hour ago, neeray said:

I guess I am late age (at 70) but I did not consider the Musk comments as a "generalisation" of my character.

Like you, I am in my 70's.

But I do think that Musk's comments was generalising.

More often as not the older expats living in Thailand are painted as sexually deviant figures, in the press, in documentaries, and because of that thought to be so by many of the public.

[Cricky]

4 hours ago, Katipo said:

I like Musk for the most part

What's to like?

 

What a horrible person.

[NextStationBangkok]

Definitely what he told was an insult, rather than free speech.

Instead of wasting his time in court, Musk can close the case by donating 1 Million dollars to a Thai charity.

 

[spidermike007]

I am sorry. I have paper thin skin, and I just react. I cannot stand it when people say bad things about me, and I just react and say dumb things. I did not mean it. I just lash out. Later, when my stock price drops, and the board wants to remove me from the CEO position of the company I founded, due to my loose cannon behavior, I get real sorry for what I did. Can you please forgive me? 

 

I am a very proud man, and I love it when people call me visionary, a genius, super rich, handsome, a revolutionary, and amazing. I just do not like it when people call me stupid, impetuous, dumb, reactive, angry, vindictive, and petulant. Please, please stop calling me those things. It really hurts me. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by spidermike007

[Guderian]

3 hours ago, Aussieroaming said:

Musk is a maggot scumbag for slurring Vern with those comments, which were a generalisation of all expat mid to late age men who choose to live in Thailand. His wife should sue as well.

Spot on. In fact, there's a good case for a class action lawsuit by all male expats living in Thailand to demand compensation from Musk as he effectively said that we're all child rapists.

[spidermike007]

Besides, I am a big and important man. One of only 2,200 billionaires in the world. The same laws of morals and ethics should not have to apply to me, as to the plebs. So please, treat me with more respect. I deserve it. Be nicer to me. 

[JAG]

3 hours ago, neeray said:

I guess I am late age (at 70) but I did not consider the Musk comments as a "generalisation" of my character.

Whilst I am a mere stripling in comparison to your good self????????, I will confess that I was unimpressed, and offended, by the implications in Mr Musks comments. My reaction is to write it off as the grandstanding of a self impressed plonker, with a demonstrated tenuous connection with the truth and access to a large audience though twitter. He would probably have benefited from a good slapping in early life! That said, I was not the specific target of his observations, groundlessly made on a very public platform. Mr Underwood was, and has chosen to  take it to court. Good luck to him, although I am not convinced that he will get far, chasing the golden boy of California through the Californian courts!

 

The difference between the two men is a contrast. Mr Underwood lives a quiet innocuous life here with his family, and played a significant and entirely creditable part in the efforts in July. His comments were accurate, and he employed a blunt but entirely normal English euphanism (remember he is an Englishman). Mr Musk is a known liar and it seems an attempted fraudster who, despite huge publicity which shamelessly seems little more than an attempt to climb on the bandwagon, played no effective role in the rescue. He did however accuse Mr Underwood, very publicly, of abhorrent actions.

Edited December 28, 2018 by JAG

[unamazedloso]

i think musk and everyone in general should be allowed to speak smack without crybaby defamation. His pedo comment was based on a stereo type. A lot of people associate kiddy fiddlers with this country. People always pick stereotypes to make fun of other countries. Who cares? grow a set!

People should be more worried about why this coach was with these boys in the cave in the first place. ill leave that right there.....

[Cadbury]

4 hours ago, JLCrab said:

If the Musk defense team shows this video in court, the case might end right there.

 

Here is an image of the cave which seems to support the theory that Musk's capsule couldn't navigate the bends. This image comes from the book "The Cave" by Liam Cochrane where he describes the cave rescue as a "shambles" and "chaos". Interesting story.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-02/thai-cave-boys-wild-boars-rescue-the-book-thailand-diving/10514970

[farcanell]

One can’t help but wonder what e musk would do, if comments were made about him,( to the effect that he rapes children and is a deviant)  and splashed such across a broad international platform.

 

one cannot help but wonder what a Californian court would make of a case brought by e musk, against a foreigner, given (perceived by me, at least) widespread xenophobia in the US.

 

anyway... like most, I didn’t take it personally, as an expat, but I can certainly see that others might see it as an attack on all expats, even if it was far from that.... When telling people that I live in Thailand, it often amuses me to watch the reaction pass across their faces, like a dog chasing a ball... lol, You can tell when they are trying to formulate a question, which often amuses.

 

that said, in general, something needs doing about the growing trend to say, or allow people to say, whatever the hell they want, about whoever they want, on social media, regardless of consequences, which might include violent attacks on others.... and  the US rampant litigation system seems to be the logical place for that, especially given that most of these social media sources are US entities.

 

suppress hate speech... don’t encourage it.... likening and reposting tweets encourages it. IMHO, award unworthy a dollar per “like” on the tweets made (which slander his name)... . That would make a statement ????

[Starship Trooper]

1 hour ago, VYCM said:

What's to like?

 

What a horrible person.

A spoilt child and arrogant to a fault.

[Starship Trooper]

33 minutes ago, unamazedloso said:

i think musk and everyone in general should be allowed to speak smack without crybaby defamation. His pedo comment was based on a stereo type. A lot of people associate kiddy fiddlers with this country. People always pick stereotypes to make fun of other countries. Who cares? grow a set!

People should be more worried about why this coach was with these boys in the cave in the first place. ill leave that right there.....

Disagree...any one who calls me a paedo IN PUBLIC is going to feel my fist.

[KKr]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

Musk stated that you (as a Westerner living in Thailand) only choose to live in Thailand to have sex with children .

  Musk also has never retracted that allegation 

really? 
what about a class law-suit , anyone interested to join ?

[JimP]

Welcome to justice, Thai style, prat Musk. 55555

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

We visited the new memorial pavilion at the caves on Boxing Day. Rather good, there is an impressive larger than life bronze statue of a rescue diver, with 13 wild boar piglets frisking around his feet. There is a large mural painting telling the story. The centre is a portrait of the man who died, which is as it should be. Just about every aspect of the operation is depicted, starting with the row of bicycles outside, every nation and contribution features, and some of the key players, Thai and foreign. It really is rather impressive.

 

No sign of Mr Musk or his submarine.

 

Purely a personal view, but I think that it is a great shame that this rescue, which brought together Thais and Foreigners in a combined co -operative effort to achieve what it did, displayed such bravery and dedication, and involved for one brave man the ultimate sacrifice should have ended up as the stage for such a law suite.

Well said!

[Nyezhov]

5 hours ago, JLCrab said:

As mentioned in OP, a hearing is scheduled for April 1, 2019 and, despite Mr. Unsworth's lawyer's protestations as to the basis of the appeal, the case may never get beyond that point.

Nope. Musk wont skate before a trial. BTW, it isnt an appeal, its a hearing on a Rule 12(b)(6) motion to dismiss, a decision denying same  is not appealable as a matter of right.

[millymoopoo]

Musk does seem to suffer from failure to 'start brain prior to selecting mouth'.!

His comments were hideous and he should be brought to task for them.!

[sanemax]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

They also said Musk's "over-the-top" comments came amid a "schoolyard spat on social media," including Twitter, where participants "expect to read opinions, not facts," and that no one could have reasonably believed they were truthful.

Quite interesting , Musks Lawyers seem to be admitting that his allegations had no basis in fact and are trying to downplay the allegations as just being juvenile behavior  

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, hansnl said:

Like you, I am in my 70's.

But I do think that Musk's comments was generalising.

More often as not the older expats living in Thailand are painted as sexually deviant figures, in the press, in documentaries, and because of that thought to be so by many of the public.

 

So that makes it all OK / fully acceptable to make a specific statement that a man who did so much to save these kids and let's not forget put his own life at risk can be called a phedo, with no evidence whatever offered.  Wow. 

 

"More often as not the older expats living in Thailand are painted as sexually deviant figures, in the press, in documentaries, and because of that thought to be so by many of the public." This is a poor excuse to try to defend musk and yourself. You don't seem to be aware that there's plenty of foreign men who have make LOS their new home with Thai ladies who are similar age, similar levels of professionalism, similar levels of honesty and caring. But the bottom line on this point is that age difference is no reason to say they are sexually deviant (your specific words). 

 

I guess the bottom line is your just trying to clutch for reasons / excuses why it's all OK for musk to make such statements. 

 

Can I or anybody make public statements about you, with no explanation, which are blatantly dishonest and insulting? Is that all OK?

 

 

[JLCrab]

11 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Nope. Musk wont skate before a trial. BTW, it isnt an appeal, its a hearing on a Rule 12(b)(6) motion to dismiss, a decision denying same  is not appealable as a matter of right.

Yes your're right - I wrote that at 5 AM. I would note that Lin Wood's defamation cases have usually involved his clients being accused of murder -- especially the Richard Jewell case -- or criminal activity.

 

And regardless of what were the chances of Musk's aiding the rescue, the comment by Unsworth that it was a publicity stunt I would think more problematic than his "stick it" comment.

Edited December 28, 2018 by JLCrab

[Bangkok Barry]

I think that Musk might find that, despite his claim that he was only indulging in free speech, Twitter rules forbid insulting and defaming comments that have no basis in truth. US law might also see it that way.

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

So please, treat me with more respect. I deserve it. Be nicer to me. 

Why don't you just say that -- unlike yourself -- he's a person of "low self-esteem" like you usually do.

[JLCrab]

OOPs computer hiccup

 

 

But OK I certainly do not know if Musk's lawyers have the goods to have the case dismissed or if Unsworth and attorney Lin Wood would prevail in a jury trial. I just don't think the case is the slam-dunk that many on here seem to think that it is.

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by JLCrab

[DJ54]

Never know what will happen....  it might be seen provoked 

 

To prove defamation in California, you must establish four elements:

That someone made a false statement of purported “fact” about you:

That the statement was made (“published”) to a third party;

That the person who made the statement did so negligently, recklessly or intentionally; and,

That as a result of the statement, your reputation was damaged.

California law recognizes two types of defamation: libel and slander. The main difference is whether a statement was made verbally (slander) or in writing (libel).

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, DJ54 said:

Never know what will happen....  it might be seen provoked 

 

To prove defamation in California, you must establish four elements:

That someone made a false statement of purported “fact” about you:

That the statement was made (“published”) to a third party;

That the person who made the statement did so negligently, recklessly or intentionally; and,

That as a result of the statement, your reputation was damaged.

California law recognizes two types of defamation: libel and slander. The main difference is whether a statement was made verbally (slander) or in writing (libel).

Ticks all the boxes .

Musk claimed that Vern married a 12 year old girl .

It was published to a 3 rd party .

It was done intentionally .

Verns reputation was damaged .

 

[JLCrab]

6 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

To prove defamation in California,

This is a US Federal Court case not a State of California case. And I'm not going to get into legal issues that may make statements on here moot point depending upon how a Judge sets the procedural ground rules for the motion to dismiss or any eventual jury trial.

Edited December 28, 2018 by JLCrab

[Sumarianson]

Not an innocent free speech comment. This was very direct and personal and potentially very damaging, shit sticks. This man could have been labelled and avoided by friends and family. The accusation had nothing to do with free speech. It had a lot to do with Musk's media stunt. What use would a sub be in that situation?  

[ChipButty]

In Motion to Dismiss "Pedo" Case, Elon Musk Provides No Proof, Blames Twitter

"When Elon Musk called British cave diving hero Vern Unsworth "pedo guy" in response to Unsworth's criticism of Musk's idea for rescuing 12 teenagers trapped in a Thai cave, many people were stunned by the accusation but eventually just brushed it off.

It was when Musk doubled, tripled and quadrupled down on his claims, further insulting Unsworth and referring to him as a "child rapist" that people – including Unsworth's lawyers – started to pay attention. There were even some whispers and murmurs at the time that Musk may have flexed his power and resources to somehow drum up evidence to support his accusations based on Unsworth's past.

But instead it appears to simply be one more Elon Musk claim that has fallen flat on its face. A motion to dismiss filed by Musk in the United States District Court Central District of California now seems to confirm that Musk was just simply making things up. It offers no evidence, but rather offers 25 pages of largely hollow rhetoric as to why his statements are not actionable. "