Democrat Warren takes step to challenge Trump in 2020

[bristolboy]

15 minutes ago, riclag said:

The last person that won anything big  from the Dem party from Massachusetts was a moderate Dem,J. Kennedy, all the others failed miserably! Ms Warren is no match,to far left

 

A smart candidate running against PT will need to persuade and gain the trust of supporters of change . If they use the deplorable/sick name calling  to go after change supporters they will be going to the same place expecting different results ,only to find the same outcome!

 

 

You want to see what a real supporter of change looks like?

And the Bureau of Financial Consumer Protection, her creation, got back the money it cheated consumers out of and imposed an additional 500 million dollar fine. Of course, Trump's people have now vitiated the Bureau.

[sirineou]

34 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

You would be wrong.  The business was not so slowly strangulated by the employees as they unionized.  They took a family business and destroyed it.  

 

No one will rebuild there.

 

When my client's father first built the business, the area was not dangerous.

I followed your post thread back

You replied to someone who said "I hate unions"

Perhaps I misunderstood but i thought you were agreeing with him with the comment that "The business was not so slowly strangulated by the employees as they unionized.  They took a family business and destroyed it. " 

You must agree a difficult sentence to understand.

Any way, mismanagement, or unionisation, or both, the fact that the neighborhood changed to the point where you needed a gun I am sure did not help.

PS: in an environment where unions are not only not protected , but are discouraged by the plutocrats that control the government, unions can be detrimental to a business. 

 I help run a union business in the US  and hold books in two different unions.

Difficult to compete against non union entities that run roughshod over safety, fair work environment, labor laws, and hire illegal employees . 

trump talks against illegal immigration, he wants a wall.

Simple solution, no wall needed!! go after the employers , remove the employment draw, and illegals will stop coming,

   All the rest are political football , and food for the weak minded. 

 

 

 

[riclag]

19 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

Can you give me an example of a smart candidate?  Please exclude all triggered, lunatic candidates.

I have no names !I'm merely stating the obvious! America is divided ! Has been well before PT ! If Dem's want to win they have to persuade and gain the trust of people for change

In my OP I said ,

A smart candidate running against PT will need to persuade and gain the trust of supporters of change . If they use the deplorable/sick name calling  to go after change supporters they will be going to the same place expecting different results ,only to find the same outcome!

[Tug]

Mrs warren blows trump out of the water in the intelligence dept she displays much much better leadership skills but sadly she doesent stand a chance against the trump stab you in the eye machine

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Tug said:

Mrs warren blows trump out of the water in the intelligence dept she displays much much better leadership skills but sadly she doesent stand a chance against the trump stab you in the eye machine

Probably true but Individual-1 is going to do his perverted negative branding thing to any and all democratic (and republican) challengers. It worked for him in his primary and he won't change. Warren has already been badly damaged by that branding and sadly she shares a good bit of the blame for that with that DNA test fiasco. So moving on from Warren, how is anyone going to fight that branding game? I don't have the answer.

Edited January 1, 2019 by Jingthing

[alex8912]

There was a lot of interesting programs on Boston local radio this past summer and fall and she was a big topic. Most callers as well as the hosts don’t like her at all. The reasons are all over the place and she is not popular. She got to be Senator again because no one else of any value was running. She should just stick to being a Senator and finish her term which just started for God’s sake. No one from Massachusetts should run. I don’t know why so many candidates from there  try to run for pres. Deval Patrick announced he would not run ( a great idea). Let someone else go up against Trump who could really challenge him. Weak  voiced and soon to be a dinosaur Warren just needs to stay out of this race and concentrate on her little Massachusetts. She was a fool to take that DNA test and then brag about it. Very stupid. 

[joecoolfrog]

19 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

She will never get past having used her pretend Cherokee heritage(which was proven to be a lie as per her DNA result fiasco) to further her career. Cultural appropriation is a big deal these days. This is unfortunate as she is my 2nd top choice to run against Trump in 2020. The first being Ocasio-Cortez. This is going to be the best electoral pounding ever.

 

"Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel dismissed the senator as "another extreme far-left obstructionist and a total fraud."

 

Amen.

Doubt that Trump will get the opportunity to run , if he does then a monkey would beat him.

[bendejo]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

So moving on from Warren, how is anyone going to fight that branding game? I don't have the answer.

 

 

The media can't get enough of him, never could.

I recall once MSNBC (yeah the Liberal station, big laugh that!) interrupted their program to show DT's plane landing at a place where he was having a campaign rally.  They blocked out at least ten minutes.  What the...?  That was the moment I realized the absurdity of the whole thing. 

Unfortunately I don't see any reason why things will be different any time soon.

 

Have you noticed he sometimes refers to CNN as "Jeff"?  His fake news battles are like celebrities having bitch-fights on Twitter. 

 

Liz is not going to out-yap him.  I think the only Dem who could would be Al Franken, Bill Maher shares the sentiment.  Wouldn't it be cool if it was discovered Gillibrand received favors from DT for her good work?

 

 

[lannarebirth]

Who are the neo-lib "third way" folks backing? Whoever that is will not be "least worst".

[theguyfromanotherforum]

As important as the upcoming Thai election.

[LawrenceN]

21 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

She will never get past having used her pretend Cherokee heritage(which was proven to be a lie as per her DNA result fiasco) to further her career. Cultural appropriation is a big deal these days. This is unfortunate as she is my 2nd top choice to run against Trump in 2020. The first being Ocasio-Cortez. This is going to be the best electoral pounding ever.

 

"Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel dismissed the senator as "another extreme far-left obstructionist and a total fraud."

 

Amen.

Pay attention to Eric Swalwell, 38-year-old Congressman from CA. He's going to make a name for himself shortly on the Intelligence and Judiciary Committees, and has already made the obligatory visits to Iowa and NH. White male, attractive to women, not a "socialist" (which is becoming less of a smear with young folks these days).

 

As far as what the RNC says, it's utter BS. They'll say the same damn thing right out of their hymnal time and time again. Ignore their character assassination. That's all they've got at this point.

[mikebike]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Klobuchar

Its is still so early. My concerns with K are her donors and her lack o a strong public statement endorsing single payer health care. Her co-authoring o the pharmaceutical pricing bill was nice to see.

 

She is not exactly an inspirational public speaker as well unfortunately.

 

This will be an interesting primary season.

[mikebike]

12 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

I agree, the "leaked tape" was actually kinda funny, because unless you're Henny Youngman or Rodney Dangerfield the stuff that's a little too (uncomfortably) close to the truth is the funniest of all.

Disclosure: I am not and never have been a LCK fan. That said I found the leaked tape as humorous as I have ever found LCK but with an extra dollop of bitterness. The bit about the Parkland kids was just weird. Punching down at the powerless is just less funny that taking on the powerful IMHO.

[mikebike]

12 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

Regarding the Muller investigation;

 

As I understand it the recipient of Muller's finding will be the Secretary of the justice dept.

Who has been critical and negative to the investigation since its conception.

I have read that Muller's material and findings will be classified.

 

What would stop the Secretary from just chucking the reports into a drawer and forget about them?

The report may well be classified rom public view but the relevant Dem congressional committee(s) will get to see it. Leaks and Congressional investigations WILL ensue.

[mikebike]

12 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

Obama was one exception, Kennedy another,

 

but there are too many POTUS hopefuls that are way past retirement age

look at Warren Sanders Clinton

gosh

about 220 years experience in between them - approaching Methusalem

 

should be possible to find runners that are not old enough to be grandmother/father to the

majority of US voters

 

 

 

I couldn't care less about age (or color; or gender; or size; or shape). I care vehemently about policy and consistency.

[melvinmelvin]

11 minutes ago, mikebike said:

I couldn't care less about age (or color; or gender; or size; or shape). I care vehemently about policy and consistency.

I think many would argue that age and policy are not totally independent.

 

[mikebike]

1 hour ago, bendejo said:

I think the only Dem who could would be Al Franken

This Dem who announced 2020 candacy before anyone else may disagree with you...

 

 

Edited January 1, 2019 by mikebike

[mikebike]

4 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

I think many would argue that age and policy are not totally independent.

 

Please elaborate. I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Many would also argue that color; gender; etc and policy are not totally independent either. They would be wrong.

Edited January 1, 2019 by mikebike

[GalaxyMan]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Tariffs are stupid.

Perhaps, but also sadly necessary to level a playing field where one or more of the players cheat. I hate Trump beyond words, but his attitude towards China and their trading practices is spot on. They've gotten fat and powerful by cheating, plain and simple.

[GalaxyMan]

17 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

You're probably confused. Co-0ps don't have a seperate owner than the workers.  I worked in one once in the late 70's. I paid $17k as a buy in to earn $8/hr at a time when the minimum wage was about $3/hour. 3 years later I went off to college and sold myshare for $22k and the then salary was $9.50/hr. Not bad at the time. The best run company I ever worked for except for the ones I owned myself.

I have no issue with co-ops. I was a member of one in London back in the early 80s. Great experience. I was referring to corporations, which is specifically what Warren was referring to. She is either smoking too much or needs to light one up. She's got a few decent ideas, but she's basically a lot of shrill, shallow noise. Just Bernie with tits.

[GalaxyMan]

14 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Which raises this question: Is UPS (United Parcel Service) run by Karl Marx?

And it's not a coincidence that in Northern Europe, where unions are strong, the middle class is a lot better off than in the USA. While worker productivity in the USA has advanced strongly since 1990, virtually all the benefits have accrued to the top 10% and dis proportionately at a  much higher level to the 1 percent. And even more disproportionately to a fraction of that. Social mobility in the USA is actually worse than it is in the so-called socialist states of northern Europe.

I think poor Karl died before UPS was born. ????

 

I am all for intelligent socialism. I had the privilege of living in Holland for 7 years in the 2000s and really appreciated what a socially responsible society can offer. I was never able to purchase health insurance in the US because of pre-existing conditions bullshit -- I broke my back in a work accident. For the first time in my life since leaving home, I had health insurance and at a very affordable rate. I saw all of the benefits of the tax money the citizenry paid being returned to the populace in great infrastructure, schools, and health care, to name just a few things. It's not for no reason that Holland has one of the most successful and contented populations, and the lowest teen pregnancy, alcohol and/or drug abuse problems in Europe, despite weed being freely and legally available. The Dutch realized that education and communication were key.

 

Education in the US has all but disappeared, replaced by babysitting services that don't prepare the students for the future. In Palm Beach County, Florida, the school board decided that handwriting was no longer to be taught in public schools. More dumbing down. As a manager in the restaurant industry, I was appalled by the so-called college graduates applying for jobs that couldn't spell or construct a sentence, not to mention following simple instructions.

[GalaxyMan]

12 hours ago, keemapoot said:

Sorry for only quoting the above of your post but I only wanted to respond to this. It appears that the biggest impetus for resignation will be to save his favorite daughter and husband from prosecution as well. If packaged with a promise of immunity for him too, (or a pre-arranged pardon by Pence upon his resignation) I think he will take that deal. If it's just him alone, he might fight the entire thing through impeachment as well as he doesn't really care about the Republican party getting trashed as he is not a long time Republican party loyalist.

 

Again, complete speculation until we see the Mueller report in February, but many experts (including those involved with both Clinton and Nixon impeachments have weighed in with this view).

I don't think it's going to matter. Everyone is aware of what President Liar is probably going to do, which is why so many States are getting in on the action. The President can only pardon Federal crimes. President Liar, et al, are in for a shit future which they have well earned. I wonder if they have family units at Rikers Island?

[keemapoot]

27 minutes ago, GalaxyMan said:

I don't think it's going to matter. Everyone is aware of what President Liar is probably going to do, which is why so many States are getting in on the action. The President can only pardon Federal crimes. President Liar, et al, are in for a shit future which they have well earned. I wonder if they have family units at Rikers Island?

Yup. New York AG has a hard on for Trump and I expect Trump to be embroiled in state actions for years too. He will not skate free completely, but if he is smart, he can resign like Nixon, get his two dimwits Ivanka and Jared spared, and get Pence to pardon him of federals. However, knowing his "I'm untouchable and smarter than any lawyer" attitude don't be surprised to see him slugging out a full impeachment proceeding, and then a subsequent national embarrassment conviction the world has never seen.

Edited January 2, 2019 by keemapoot
correct

[Longcut]

23 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Two points of note:

 

1. Warren announcing her candidacy is in no sense a declaration that she will be the Democrat candidate.

 

2. Warren is far more likely to become the Democratic candidate than Trump is to survive Mueller’s investigation.

Don't forget, it is a Republican Senate. Trump won't be impeached. Unless he is indicted for some crime. He will be running again in 2020.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 1/1/2019 at 7:25 AM, TopDeadSenter said:

She will never get past having used her pretend Cherokee heritage(which was proven to be a lie as per her DNA result fiasco) to further her career.

I've no particularly strong feelings about Elizabeth Warren one way or the other, but the DNA test she took did not rule out the possibility she has Native American ancestry and she does not claim Cherokee heritage. There is no evidence the fact that she was once listed as being of Native American heritage in a Law directory has had any effect on her career. 

[keemapoot]

Just now, Longcut said:

Don't forget, it is a Republican Senate. Trump won't be impeached. Unless he is indicted for some crime. He will be running again in 2020.

Yes, true, the Mueller report will need to contain real felony substance for impeachment. Currently there is already an unindicted co-conspirator claim that has been laid bare, but we will have to see how much more Mueller has before we can say there is enough for impeachment.

[EVENKEEL]

As much fun as it's been having Trump as POTUS, I seriously doubt he'll run in 2020. But who knows. I just want to recoup my lost investments. If we can get the stock market back to record numbers and job growth continues, GDP stays healthy...….Trump will have a real chance should he decide to run for another term. After all people vote with their pocketbooks.

[Jingthing]

7 hours ago, mikebike said:

Its is still so early. My concerns with K are her donors and her lack o a strong public statement endorsing single payer health care. Her co-authoring o the pharmaceutical pricing bill was nice to see.

 

She is not exactly an inspirational public speaker as well unfortunately.

 

This will be an interesting primary season.

Fair enough.

I think she will run because I think she has a choice to offer that is distinctive enough that she is worthy of being tested.

I don't really expect her to be nominated but I look forward to her (and others) giving it a go.

As far as her policy positions, she has room for them to gel either way.

It is true she isn't the hottest of speakers.

I see that as a potential strength.

It is my opinion that what the nation now wants is to turn hard towards calmness, civility, respect for the rule of law (she's a former prosecutor), and normality. The exact opposite of Individual-1.

There is a wide spectrum of ideologies that will be on offer from the democrats, from far left to center right. I think it's obvious that the democratic party is hungry to nominate some flavor of progressive for 2020. People will argue on how far left to go and many people will still be arguing for a more mainstream moderate. While I agree that the democrats need to be about BOTH offering a clear vision forward and offering the ever popular "not "trump"" it also seems obvious that most ideological purists of any flavor are not going to be fully satisfied with any choice. Meaning that replacing "trump" with anyone that is qualified and sane still needs to be the unifying message. You can't get everything you want but you CAN dump "trump."

 

 

[bristolboy]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

As much fun as it's been having Trump as POTUS, I seriously doubt he'll run in 2020. But who knows. I just want to recoup my lost investments. If we can get the stock market back to record numbers and job growth continues, GDP stays healthy...….Trump will have a real chance should he decide to run for another term. After all people vote with their pocketbooks.

The stock market is irrelevant to the state of most Americans' pocketbooks.

Edited January 2, 2019 by bristolboy

[Jingthing]

Interesting prediction for what it's worth. At this point, very little, but still fun.

This guy predicts Warren won't make it (I agree). But he sees Klobuchar as potentially doing very well (I hope). Also Beto (seems fairly likely). See Item 7. His predictions are b and d.

 

Quote

A look into the crystal ball for Jan. 1, 2020

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-look-into-the-crystal-ball-for-jan-1-2020/2019/01/01/87e92c54-0d43-11e9-84fc-d58c33d6c8c7_story.html

Edited January 2, 2019 by Jingthing