BREAKING NEWS Thai immigration reveals new requirements for retirement, marriage extensions (visas)

[onera1961]

5 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Wrong wrong. They do want all to have sufficient funds. 4 Embassies balked at having to verify it.

That's what you want out of bitterness, I think. Other embassies are fine

Edited January 6, 2019 by onera1961

[KhaoYai]

25 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

When I did my first extension based on marriage, I was advised my a senior IO that funds coming from overseas into my Thai bank account needed to be from a pension. I told him the money comes from rental properties. He said I shouldn't be telling him this because that type of income is not allowed on a marriage extension. I even had a letter from my embassy stating I receive X amount every month. I guess he felt sorry for me because he processed the extension nonetheless.

 

I really do hope that the wording will be as basic "funds from outside Thailand," but I have my doubts. 

Correct, it is likely to say 'Pension' but as Ubonjoe stated earlier, the word pension covers many things. To you, the rental income is your pension isn't it?  Mine is. Why confuse matters and court problems? Just declare it as pension - its doubtful that the Thai banks will be asked to confirm that its pension income, they are less able to confirm that than the embassies were.  As far as I can see, all the banks will be required to do is confirm the amount received and that it came from an international transfer.

[mogandave]

Nothing complex. If over 50, get an O-A and keep your money invested in your home country. Spend as little as 40K per month in Thailand and no body cares.
 
Or, bring 800K three months prior to your application and season it for three months. After the extension, start spending 40K/month and nobody cares. Top it up three months prior to Application.
 
Or, start sending 15K/week and 5K/month and keep spending 40K/month, nobody cares. At the end of one year, you have saved 300K. You can buy a used car.
 
Or hire an agent and spend 38K/month (2K for agent). No body cares. 
 
I don't see any complexity. Why should I donate 500K to Thailand? I can buy a nice new car for that price.
 
If you have few million dollars, you can waste 500K baht but I still think it's wastage of money if you're 50 years or more.  

How is money in the bank wasted?

What, you have to spend it as fast as you get it?

[jesimps]

3 minutes ago, flexomike said:

what new requirement?

He missed out "Possible".

 

[sometimewoodworker]

5 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Some people are requesting to post the original Thai version. Is it officially available? If so, may be you can post it in a new thread for people to interpret it according to their wish.

I posted it yesterday here.

 

i see there is now a reposting

[zydeco]

2 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

o you, the rental income is your pension isn't it?  Mine is. Why confuse matters and court problems? Just declare it as pension -

First rule at immigration. Never, ever, ever, ever volunteer anything. Only provide it when asked.

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Some people are requesting to post the original Thai version. Is it officially available? If so, may be you can post it in a new thread for people to interpret it according to their wish.

It is not officially available. I have been checking the immigration website regularly to see it was post. The copies floating around were given a copy to somebody that got it from an immigration office.

That is why we chose not to post it until the translation from a reputable translation service is available.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Pilotman said:

Or leave to go somewhere that actually values expats and their contribution, both financially and culturally, the Thai authorities don't value either;  their loss.  

Sure, some will leave and some will stay. 

[onera1961]

10 minutes ago, mogandave said:

How is money in the bank wasted?

Buying elite visa when someone is over 50 is wastage. There are lots of option for the person to remain in Thailand on retirements and 500K can be used to buy a new car, for example. 
 

10 minutes ago, mogandave said:

What, you have to spend it as fast as you get it?

In the example I gave, I am spending only 40K a month or 300K savings per year if I bring 65k/month to Thailand.

Edited January 6, 2019 by onera1961

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Pilotman said:

so now you have no choice but to transfer money, not leave it in the home country and transfer only what you need. hardly helping some people is it? 

I know plenty of guys who will continue using agents. Additional others will switch to using an agent. Using an agent does not necessitate a major transfer of magnitude. Which is one of the reasons some guys use them. They are prepared to take the risk which others have said they will not. Up to you as they say.

[elviajero]

41 minutes ago, ginjag said:

55 minutes ago, elviajero said:

If they only have a pension of 30K pm they didn’t qualify for the extension using the embassy letter either!

Wrong  560,000k in a Thai bank to verify, plus the pension of 30k verified.  I did not need agents as the pension and the 560,000 was what was then required.

Not wrong!

 

My comment was to someone saying that this change will stop someone with 30K income getting an extension. If they had 540K to put in the bank they didn’t have a problem then, and don’t have one now.

 

If all they had was 30K pm income before the didn’t qualify for an extension anyway.

[jesimps]

32 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

That actually sounds like a good idea! A bit foolish to be here without some type of health coverage. 

 

34 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

That actually sounds like a good idea! A bit foolish to be here without some type of health coverage. 

Even more foolish to shell out hundreds of thousands of baht annualy to Thai insurance companies when you're fit and healthy and have a good lifestyle. Companies that always seem to find a loophole when it comes to paying out. In my opinion, I have sufficient in my bank at home to self-insure, which I have been doing for the past 12 years. I've even, on occasions, paid out for private treatment for my Thai wife, even though she has govt insurance. If I ever do need treatment, I'll book myself into one of the cheaper hospitals, of which there are plenty around. It's the people like you who make smug statements who're the foolish ones.

[ginjag]

4 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Not wrong!

 

My comment was to someone saying that this change will stop someone with 30K income getting an extension. If they had 540K to put in the bank they didn’t have a problem then, and don’t have one now.

 

If all they had was 30K pm income before the didn’t qualify for an extension anyway.

But they DO have a problem now,  before it was accepted   540k  and a 30k pension.....NOW  as I read it your pension is not sufficient as an offset as they are asking a higher pension to be transferred to a Thai bank, if you only receive 30k you cannot transfer the now said amount.......what you not have you cannot give.......so my posts all along are saying a good % of ex pats only have 3ok old pension UK...so will be eliminated under the new rule.   so what does a UK pensioner do with 30k pension and 540k in the bank  ????  leave or pay 500,000 elite 5 years and live off his pension  but no worries about having to leave.

[Pib]

Using Google Translate on the police order in Thai language several post above it only talks the monthly income method; not a 800K/400K or combo methods.  I sure hope those who say the 800K/400K deposit and combo methods are still in effect are right.

[elviajero]

48 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

So the 800/400K has not been touched?

 

I have the cash in the bank - I really do not want to transfer 40K a month on over here when I have 400K in the bank and I only live on 25K? 

Correct. No change. You can still use 800/400K in the bank.

[JackThompson]

 

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It's hardly easier for someone who used to be able to keep all their funds in their home country accounts, pay no foreign transfer fees, and just get an Embassy income letter once a year.

Correct - it is not easier - it is a higher-bar.  Before, you just needed to HAVE the minimum required income.  Now, you have to TRANSFER the minimum required income here, regardless of if you need that much to live, or if have bills where the money came from, which could require some to send part of the money right back again.

 

That said, if there was a consensus they wanted "all of us gone soon," they could have simply switched to the 400/800K method only.  It seemed some IOs thought it would turn out that way, based on early comments at some offices - but it appears the "farangs out" hardliners were overruled. 

[Mango Bob]

I bet my left nut that the 400K and 800K in the bank will meet the requirement.  Just like it was.  You transfer money to Thailand to meet the requirements verified by your embassy and now but your Thai bank. or you showed 400K and 800K in the bank 3 months prior.   Just good common sense.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Mango Bob

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, JackThompson said:

 

Correct - it is not easier - it is a higher-bar.  Before, you just needed to HAVE the minimum required income.  Now, you have to TRANSFER the minimum required income here, regardless of if you need that much to live, or if have bills where the money came from, which could require some to send part of the money right back again.

 

 

ya, I wasn't making any argument about what might be Immigration's motivations here. Just responding to a couple posters who kept saying the "rules" hadn't changed and everything was/is just the same as it was before, which simply isn't true, for the reasons you and I have both explained here.

[elviajero]

11 minutes ago, ginjag said:

But they DO have a problem now,  before it was accepted   540k  and a 30k pension.....NOW  as I read it your pension is not sufficient as an offset as they are asking a higher pension to be transferred to a Thai bank, if you only receive 30k you cannot transfer the now said amount.......what you not have you cannot give.......so my posts all along are saying a good % of ex pats only have 3ok old pension UK...so will be eliminated under the new rule.   so what does a UK pensioner do with 30k pension and 540k in the bank  ????  leave or pay 500,000 elite 5 years and live off his pension  but no worries about having to leave.

They have no more of a problem than before. Here’s a simple example of someone with a 30K pension...

 

Before: They got an embassy letter confirming 30K pm income and put 540K in the Thai bank.

 

After: They transfer 30K pm to Thailand and put 540K in the Thai bank.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Srikcir said:

They can log in if you want to give the Thai government your log in to your account with ID and password to the VA and SSI web sites. Probably NOT something you want to provide.

But it's not necessary in any event as you can download from VA an Official Benefits Letter ( https://www.va.gov/records/download-va-letters/ ) and from SSI an official Summary of Monthly Social Security Benefits.

As with your copies of your passport signed with your name in blue ink on each copy for your extension, why shouldn't immigration also accept these official government letters with your blue ink signature as evidence?

Because a cottage-industry would quickly appear to generate letters indistinguishable from the "real thing."   Even with the embassy-letters, some offices were insisting the Thai MFA certify the consul's signature was genuine.  

 

If you IO asks for 'backup evidence' supporting the Thai-bank's statement of monthly deposits, you could use those letters for that purpose. 

 

A bank-officer's signature and stamp is more reliable to a Thai official than anything from our home-countries - even if the underlying information is less indicative of "actual income" than "regular foreign-sourced transfers" could ever hope to be.

 

3 hours ago, Moonlover said:

A TransferWise transaction slip shows a clear 'paper trail' of the funds, starting from receipt of the home country funds (GBP in my case) to the payment of the THB equivalent into the payee's account in Thailand.

 

Matched to the same credit entry on the payee's bank statement should suffice I'm sure in proving that the funds came from abroad.

 

I'm downloading and saving all of mine in readiness.

The Primary Document immigration will want to see is the letter from your Thai bank showing the monthly foreign xfers.  As long as your transferwise payments appear as foreign on that letter, you are fine.  If they don't show as foreign xfers, do not expect an IO to care what other paper you attempt to show them.

[jmd8800]

If you transfer 40/65K into Thailand each month and do not spend all of it, at some point in the future your bank balance will be equal to the required 400/800K balance need and you can stop transferring monthly deposits.

[Pedrogaz]

I want to say 'eff' it. I am sick of having to jump through hoops to stay here. Showing 65K a month is no problem for me, I already have that sum paid in here but what normal country changes its immigration requirements even 6 months. This change for change's sake and pettiness is becoming really, really boring.

Next up medical insurance, then some other requirements coming along next year? 

Thailand is not the only retirement destination and it has become very expensive living here depending what currency your pension is earned.

[Pib]

I figure a Transferwise receipt would have as about weight with TI as an ATM slip---that is zero weight.  TI will want "Thai bank" generated docs confirming an international transfer.

[elviajero]

18 minutes ago, Pib said:

Using Google Translate on the police order in Thai language several post above it only talks the monthly income method; not a 800K/400K or combo methods.  I sure hope those who say the 800K/400K deposit and combo methods are still in effect are right.

The document ONLY deals with the additional way we can prove income.

 

There has definitely not been any change to the option of putting 400/800K in the bank, OR the combination of income/cash available for retirement extensions.

[Pib]

Just now, elviajero said:

The document ONLY deals with the additional way we can prove income.

 

There has definitely not been any change to the option of putting 400/800K in the bank, OR the combination of income/cash available for retirement extensions.

How do you "definitely know?"

[Mango Bob]

3 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The document ONLY deals with the additional way we can prove income.

 

There has definitely not been any change to the option of putting 400/800K in the bank, OR the combination of income/cash available for retirement extensions.

That is because the 400k and the 800k did not change.   The only change was how to show you transfer funds to a Thai Bank each month 65,000 at least.

[007 RED]

FYI – In the previous post  now closed - Update: New Thai immigration rules for income!

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1076363-update-new-thai-immigration-rules-for-income/?page=25

 

I informed TV members that I had seen earlier last week a copy of the document that is currently being circulated to all Thai Immigration offices and provided details of its contents.

 

As I pointed out, the document is not a Police Order, but rather a memorandum clarifying the situation with regards to Criteria for Consideration of Granting an Alien Extension of Stay in the Kingdom According to Clause 2 of Order No. 327/2557 of the Royal Thai Police dated 30 June 2014” with particular with reference to Sections 2.18 and 2.22 which relate to the granting of extensions of stay for foreigner being a family member of a Thai National or in the case of retirement respectively.

 

The explanations which I provided in my original post were as a result of translations provided by my wife and her friend (who is a senior officer in the Thai Immigration Bureau HQ).  Although both are not professional translators their Thai – English is far better than mine.  FWIW - Both my wife and her friend are Thai nationals and both hold MA’s obtained at good standing Universities in the UK.

 

In my original post I indicated that I would post a copy of the document and that is attached for those who would prefer to translate for themselves.

 

I hope this helps and will no doubt generate more responses.

TI Memorandum.pdf

[elviajero]

2 minutes ago, Pib said:

How do you "definitely know?"

Because they would have announced a change to cash in the bank and they haven’t.

 

As I said, they’ve just added an additional way to prove income.

[Pib]

1 minute ago, 007 RED said:

FYI – In the previous post  now closed - Update: New Thai immigration rules for income!

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1076363-update-new-thai-immigration-rules-for-income/?page=25

 

I informed TV members that I had seen earlier last week a copy of the document that is currently being circulated to all Thai Immigration offices and provided details of its contents.

 

As I pointed out, the document is not a Police Order, but rather a memorandum clarifying the situation with regards to Criteria for Consideration of Granting an Alien Extension of Stay in the Kingdom According to Clause 2 of Order No. 327/2557 of the Royal Thai Police dated 30 June 2014” with particular with reference to Sections 2.18 and 2.22 which relate to the granting of extensions of stay for foreigner being a family member of a Thai National or in the case of retirement respectively.

 

The explanations which I provided in my original post were as a result of translations provided by my wife and her friend (who is a senior officer in the Thai Immigration Bureau HQ).  Although both are not professional translators their Thai – English is far better than mine.  FWIW - Both my wife and her friend are Thai nationals and both hold MA’s obtained at good standing Universities in the UK.

 

In my original post I indicated that I would post a copy of the document and that is attached for those who would prefer to translate for themselves.

 

I hope this helps and will no doubt generate more responses.

TI Memorandum.pdf

And an outstanding post it was....far better than this OP post.  Recommend all read it.

[Pilotman]

3 hours ago, Pilotman said:

Or leave to go somewhere that actually values expats and their contribution, both financially and culturally, the Thai authorities don't value either;  their loss.  

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by Pilotman