BREAKING NEWS Thai immigration reveals new requirements for retirement, marriage extensions (visas)

[mogandave]

To explain it
I have invested in gold in the past. I sell gold for 400 k THB and put it on my thai account. Will it be Accepted or not?


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If you go the seasoned 800/400k route, I believe the money can come from anywhere, but it cannot be a joint account.

We just transferred funds from our joint account into an individual account in my name, and immigration told us it would be okay. I haven’t had to use it yet, guess I’ll find out next October...

[moogradod]

18 minutes ago, sirineou said:

have you invested it in Thailand or abroad?

  If abroad then your income will be coming from outside Thailand and no problem

   if invested in Thailand ,isn't investment income  in thailand taxed?  

I am interested to know why you are saying that. As far as I know, if you are tax resident (staying in the country more than an aggregate 180 days in one calendar = tax year) then income from abroad is taxed, provided that it is brought to Thailand in the same year in which it was earned.

Income from Thai sources is taxable anyway. This is what I understand according to the tax guides of Price Waterhouse Cooper or Tilleke.

[Delight]

 To my mind these new set of rules are simple.

I read it as month 1 (12 months prior to your 2020 visa extension application date) you bring in 65000 Baht -then you spend some or all of it.

Month 2 repeat

This continues for the full 12 months . They allow some ups and downs -but the average over the 12 months must be 65000 Baht P.M.

With the neccessary certification from the receiving bank in place -then apply for the extension.

If your nett income is less than 780000 Baht P.A. (plus some transaction costs ) then you need a different type of visa.

The benefit of the Embassy letter was that it  quoted your  gross income-now you have to show nett

Edited January 6, 2019 by Delight

[Shiver]

Why not just put a couple of grand (western) on escrow, so if they don't like you they can kick you out at your own expense?

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, wobalt said:

To explain it
I have invested in gold in the past. I sell gold for 400 k THB and put it on my thai account. Will it be Accepted or not?

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It depends.

 

If you apply for an extension of stay they don’t, as a rule, insist on proof that the funds in your bank came from abroad. So yes.

 

However, if you were applying for a non immigrant visa from immigration they do want proof the funds came from abroad. So probably not unless you could prove the funds used to buy the gold came from abroad.

 

Bottom line; the 400/800k is supposed to be from foreign sources, and income is supposed to be foreign income unless you’re actually employed in Thailand.

[MaxYakov]

17 hours ago, Eligius said:

On the face of it, this looks EXTREMELY worrying for British retirees here. The irresponsible action of the British embassy in not confirming a retiree's income flow could be the death knell for many Brits here. Also, as far as I understand it, the British Government will not send pensions into a Thai bank account (only into a British one), and not every British bank will automatically forward a pension to a bank account in Thailand every month. Maybe I am wrong. 

 

Perhaps it is not as bad as I fear. What do other members think?

 

 

 

 

From the beginning I thought this was instigated by Thai Immigration and not the various embassies and I believe this is a logical and verifiable conclusion. I wouldn't consider the embassy's action irresponsible, if Thai immigration demanded that the embassies verify the incomes that were stated on the Income Affidavits and they simply didn't have (or want to provide) the staff to do that. It seems a bit heavy-handed to stop the Affidavits altogether (and a source of revenue for them), but this at least made it absolutely sure we farangs could not try to use them in 2019 and beyond by providing them to Thai Immigration with their various visa requests.

 

My conclusion is that Thailand wants to keep out the riffraff (aka Cheap Charlies/pikers) and to simplify the income verification process for their staff at the same time by having the funds deposited into Thai banks. A secondary (perhaps primary?) benefit for Thailand is that Thai banks would be the deposit/holding of the (840k) lump-sum funds or the passing thru of the monthly (65k) funds - a great financial benefit for Thailand. On the other hand, I believe what they failed to consider is the amount of continuous spending that is being provided by farangs that cannot meet their 840k/65k minimum funding requirements and will choose another retirement country - one with less stringent bank deposit/income requirements.

 

I don't think I'll be going along with this grand scheme. I don't want to even posses a Thai bank account, much less deposit-funds-into or pass funds though one (even if I could). I disagree with their "Big Brother" approach to this and have been using for years a much more streamlined/efficient way to move funds into Thailand at my discretion by way of my home-country's bank account debit card.

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by MaxYakov

[onera1961]

36 minutes ago, Delight said:

This continues for the full 12 months . They allow some ups and downs -but the average over the 12 months must be 65000 Baht P.M.

I read it as average over the month. Not over the year. Averaging over the year is cheaper then keeping 800K in a bank. ON the top  of it, no seasoning required if averaging over the year. I bring 15K baht every week (It still falls short of 5K every month). So I must bring another 5K every month And then I can average it over one month to meet  65K requirements. Based on my spending 40K every month, I can send back 25K using DeeMoney or save it here for future needs if required like buying a health insurance etc. etc. 

Edited January 6, 2019 by onera1961

[wobalt]

I am interested to know why you are saying that. As far as I know, if you are tax resident (staying in the country more than an aggregate 180 days in one calendar = tax year) then income from abroad is taxed, provided that it is brought to Thailand in the same year in which it was earned.
Income from Thai sources is taxable anyway. This is what I understand according to the tax guides of Price Waterhouse Cooper or Tilleke.

Correct, but special conditions applied, government ton government relationship, work, only 30 k baht was taxed, so very little


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[wobalt]

It depends.
 
If you apply for an extension of stay they don’t, as a rule, insist on proof that the funds in your bank came from abroad. So yes.
 
However, if you were applying for a non immigrant visa from immigration they do want proof the funds came from abroad. So probably not unless you could prove the funds used to buy the gold came from abroad.
 
Bottom line; the 400/800k is supposed to be from foreign sources, and income is supposed to be foreign income unless you’re actually employed in Thailand.

Not clear for me, as the funds came from work here used as part of my pension package. I am self-employed , so no state pension from home country. I have to take care of myself ( private investment) so we invested in gold and properties (renting income)


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[sirineou]

1 hour ago, moogradod said:

I am interested to know why you are saying that. As far as I know, if you are tax resident (staying in the country more than an aggregate 180 days in one calendar = tax year) then income from abroad is taxed, provided that it is brought to Thailand in the same year in which it was earned.

Income from Thai sources is taxable anyway. This is what I understand according to the tax guides of Price Waterhouse Cooper or Tilleke.

you would have to follow back the whole string o this particular conversation.

  I am not professing to know , I am simply posting  an opinion and asking a question.

 

  For the purpose of this thread I am not concerned with how or where it is taxed, simply that there is a record so that you can prove income.

If invested  outside Thailand there is a record of expatriation of investment  and repatriation of profits

if invested in Thailand a tax record to prove local income.

  

[ChokDee4213]

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

A letter from the bank confirming 12 foreign transfers of the 40K or 65K. And the bank book showing the 12 transfers.  Seems clear and straightforward.

 

 

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

...It's pretty well clear at this point that 12 monthly transfers from a foreign bank account into one's Thai bank account in the required amount -- either 40K or 65K per month -- is going to satisfy Immigration, provided you bring along your Thai bank book that shows that activity and a bank letter that confirms you had the required foreign source deposits.

Nothing in the OP talks about bank books or letters from banks. It does talk about income tax documents. Did I overlook something in the last 49 pages? Can you show how this is not conjecture?

 

If People just need monthly foreign transfers, what's to stop someone from just moving the same 45k/65k back and forth between a foreign account and local account every month to meet the requirements? Doesn't sound much more credible than waving your hand in the air at your embassy, and saying that you really and truly have income (cross my heart). Tax statements seem far more credible and that's what's written in the OP.

[srowndedbyh2o]

3 hours ago, David Walden said:

At the risk of repeating my self over and over again, "nothing has changed". The requirements are still the same. The long-awaited update of the  Thai Immigration statement is just the same as it has been for the last 18 + year.  What they are suggesting is that is that all the corrupt actions cease.  How they handle that that has yet to be decided.

David, I think the concern for some, are people that could easily qualify using income, but choose, for what ever reason, not to keep a large sum of funds in a Thai bank, and also prefer not to move that amount of money into Thailand each month.

We all know that many retirees live very comfortably in Thailand for under Baht 65,000 a month. If a person has a pension of, lets say, US$5000 a month, but only transfers US$1,200 a month into Thailand, because that’s all they need to live on, the income affidavit allowed them to do that, without being forced to move funds that they do not need in Thailand.

Personally, 800,000 in the bank and be done with it. No worries

[JLCrab]

7 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Many who have the money, are saying making a xfer once a month is too much trouble,

Nah I bring in 65K+ baht per month anyway now by SWIFT FTT instead of ACH or ATM. And I spend more than 65K baht in Thailand each month. Some say they like Thailand because of cheap sex -- there is also expensive sex. Up-to-you.

Edited January 6, 2019 by JLCrab

[gk10002000]

20 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

Evidence of a pension.

They keep using the word pension.  Many people do NOT have pensions.  Most of my passive income comes from Stock and fund dividends and bond and fund interest. Yes I will have social security but that is NOT a pension, at least by most definitions.  And other people will have many other types of income, annuities, book or movie royalties or residuals, rental income, etc.  This is just a mess

[sqwakvfr]

1. The Embassy Income Affidavit/Certification/Letter is now DEAD. 

2. The two options are:  800K Seasoned or 65K per month International Transfer.

3. The actual winners are Thai Banks and Thailand's FOREX reserve accounts

4. The losers are those foreigners who have significant assets and/or ongoing financial obligations back in their home countries.  I just don't think I can use my Thai Bank account to pay any of my bills back in the USA. 

5.  In my case liquidating some of my long term investments( I took a conservative and long term view of how to invest my money) and the two terms I would rather not deal with now are "Early Withdrawal Penalty" and "Capital Gains Tax implications".

 

Everyones circumstances and priorities are different.   

 

On that note my last year in LOS has just begun.

 

 

[KhunFred]

20 hours ago, Eligius said:

On the face of it, this looks EXTREMELY worrying for British retirees here. The irresponsible action of the British embassy in not confirming a retiree's income flow could be the death knell for many Brits here. Also, as far as I understand it, the British Government will not send pensions into a Thai bank account (only into a British one), and not every British bank will automatically forward a pension to a bank account in Thailand every month. Maybe I am wrong. 

 

Perhaps it is not as bad as I fear. What do other members think?

 

 

 

 

Mentions "tax receipts".  Mine show very clearly what I receive annually. Divide by 12 and you have your answer.

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

ya, I wasn't making any argument about what might be Immigration's motivations here. Just responding to a couple posters who kept saying the "rules" hadn't changed and everything was/is just the same as it was before, which simply isn't true, for the reasons you and I have both explained here.

I was under the impression that the rules were actually made easier, adding another option for income. The removal of income verification letters by 4 Embassies was the event that created this drama. Immigration accommodated those affected. You might argue IO asking that the Embassy letters  really did verify income started things off too.

[Mad mick]

20 hours ago, Eligius said:

On the face of it, this looks EXTREMELY worrying for British retirees here. The irresponsible action of the British embassy in not confirming a retiree's income flow could be the death knell for many Brits here. Also, as far as I understand it, the British Government will not send pensions into a Thai bank account (only into a British one), and not every British bank will automatically forward a pension to a bank account in Thailand every month. Maybe I am wrong. 

 

Perhaps it is not as bad as I fear. What do other members think?

 

 

 

 

big problem for aussies on government old age pensions single is or = approx 42,000 baht per month as it stands now with aussie dollar being so weak , unpredictable currency i can see now aussies would better off going to vietnam or cambodia thailand is finished  married or not, would be same choice vietnam, cambodia u dont have to be married to a local to gain any type of visas or buy a house is no issue or work visa start a business so easy , bye bye thailand

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, Danthai said:

I'm sure there are many naysayers that will find some reason to say this wont work, but cant believe IO wont accept

It concerns me as I suspect they want a confirming letter from your bank that 65k has been deposited each month from outside of Thaiand, and by your methodology, they cannot do that.

[mtls2005]

From the OP:

An unconfirmed report submitted by Thaivisa member bkk6060 stated that immigration are likely to offer some leeway to foreigners with regards to submitting 12 months worth of statements for the first applications under the new requirements.

 

 

1.) I assume this applies to any extension of stay application in 2019? It could be your first extension of stay, or your thirteenth?

 

2.) Any clues on "leeway"? Should I assume that as these rules are just being published in January 2019, and that if my application date is 28 Sep 2019, I could show monthly foreign-originated deposits of 65,000+ for January through September? Or should I just be safe, and make sure I have 800,000+ by ~ 25 June? Does the 800,000 have to appear as one single foreign originated deposit?

 

 

 

[mogandave]

From the beginning I thought this was instigated by Thai Immigration and not the various embassies and I believe this is a logical and verifiable conclusion. I wouldn't consider the embassy's action irresponsible, if Thai immigration demanded that the embassies verify the incomes that were stated on the Income Affidavits and they simply didn't have (or want to provide) the staff to do that. It seems a bit heavy-handed to stop the Affidavits altogether (and a source of revenue for them), but this at least made it absolutely sure we farangs could not try to use them in 2019 and beyond by providing them to Thai Immigration with their various visa requests.
 
My conclusion is that Thailand wants to keep out the riffraff (aka Cheap Charlies/pikers) and to simplify the income verification process for their staff at the same time by having the funds deposited into Thai banks. A secondary (perhaps primary?) benefit for Thailand is that Thai banks would be the deposit/holding of the (840k) lump-sum funds or the passing thru of the monthly (65k) funds - a great financial benefit for Thailand. On the other hand, I believe what they failed to consider is the amount of continuous spending that is being provided by farangs that cannot meet their 840k/65k minimum funding requirements and will choose another retirement country - one with less stringent bank deposit/income requirements.
 
I don't think I'll be going along with this grand scheme. I don't want to even posses a Thai bank account, much less deposit-funds-into or pass funds though one (even if I could). I disagree with their "Big Brother" approach to this and have been using for years a much more streamlined/efficient way to move funds into Thailand at my discretion by way of my home-country's bank account debit card.
 
 
 

We’re going to miss you.

[Netease]

7 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

A monthly Transferwise transfer from your U.S. account to TFW and then onto a BKKB account MIGHT cover what Immigration wants to see, given that BKKB records TFW incoming transfers as international ones.

 

The only unknown question about that approach is BKKB confirming that they'll be willing to issue the kind of foreign transfers letter Thai Immigration is going to want to see based on incoming TFW transfers.

This is what mt BKKB shows on my statement from TFW 

International Transfer

23,866.83

 

[luckyluke]

50 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

The Embassy Income Affidavit/Certification/Letter is now DEAD. 

Not at all, only for the citizens of 4 embassies.

 

These embassies didn't even came with an alternative for their citizens.

 

Good the T.I. added a new condition to their directives to try to come to the "rescue" of these people.

 

Will it suit everyone concerned? Is it perfect?

of course not.

 

No one can (should) expect that rules are made for each one in particular.

 

[MrMuddle]

20 hours ago, colinneil said:

I get my UK pension paid directly into my Krung Thai account every 13 weeks, have done now for nearly 5 years, never had any problems.

Hi - can I ask if you get the Pension transferred in Pounds Sterling, and converted to Baht here, or not ?

[colinneil]

1 minute ago, MrMuddle said:

Hi - can I ask if you get the Pension transferred in Pounds Sterling, and converted to Baht here, or not ?

Transferred in pounds then converted.

[sqwakvfr]

"Not at all, only for the citizens of 4 embassies."

 

So in 2020 a citizen from a country not named USA, UK, OZ or Denmark can walk into any Immigration Office with a Embassy Income letter and obtain an extension?  I thought the "New Requirement" for the Income Qualifier was to prove 12 or less(depending on the timing of the extension) monthly transfers into a Thai Bank Account?  
 

 

[sqwakvfr]

JLCrab, I prefer My Way(by Sinatra) but Willie is good as well.  

[bluesofa]

22 minutes ago, colinneil said:

23 minutes ago, MrMuddle said:

Hi - can I ask if you get the Pension transferred in Pounds Sterling, and converted to Baht here, or not ?

Transferred in pounds then converted.

From what I've read on the website (I'm not yet quite old enough), I understand you need to specifically state whether you want in transferred in UKP (then converted where you live), or converted in the UK into your local currency then transferred.

[colinneil]

Just now, bluesofa said:

From what I've read on the website (I'm not yet quite old enough), I understand you need to specifically state whether you want in transferred in UKP (then converted where you live), or converted in the UK into your local currency then transferred.

Correct, i asked for it to be transferred in pounds then converted here, get more baht that way.

[jacko45k]

16 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

"Not at all, only for the citizens of 4 embassies."

 

So in 2020 a citizen from a country not named USA, UK, OZ or Denmark can walk into any Immigration Office with a Embassy Income letter and obtain an extension?  I thought the "New Requirement" for the Income Qualifier was to prove 12 or less(depending on the timing of the extension) monthly transfers into a Thai Bank Account?  
 

 

If it was issued within the last 6 months I guess so. The New Requirement is an alternative.

 

The changes are that applicants must be able to show income going into a Thai bank account and that income proof from an embassy (providing your embassy still issues income letters) will still be accepted.

Edited January 7, 2019 by jacko45k