Britons would now vote to stay in EU, want second referendum: poll

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Everything changed May so let us have a vote to finalize Camerons f* up

 

If Labour had anywhere near a decent team they would annihilate the Tories and May must say "thank you God' every morning.

What you mean Cameron's boomboom up,

disagree-

Cannot see that Cameron boomboomedup at all. The call for a vote had developed over time, Cameron followed suit.

 

In my view, the hefty mess that UK is in now is not Cameron's fault and it is not really May's fault,

it is almost entirely the fault of the UK parliament which has boomboomed up completely in this Brexit business.

 

[BobBKK]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

What you mean Cameron's boomboom up,

disagree-

Cannot see that Cameron boomboomedup at all. The call for a vote had developed over time, Cameron followed suit.

 

In my view, the hefty mess that UK is in now is not Cameron's fault and it is not really May's fault,

it is almost entirely the fault of the UK parliament which has boomboomed up completely in this Brexit business.

 

Cameron led the disaster when he did NOT HAVE TO. He could have said "5% majority is needed" he was a disgrace to our nation and he was arrogant and assumed he would win.

 

Don't believe me?  have another vote!  easy

 

Really hope May lose big time in the vote 

[Jingthing]

Ever hear of lemon laws?
You buy a car from a corrupt slick lying salesman and it turns out to be a piece of garbage.

Lemon laws allow buyers to take the car back within a short period of time.

Brexit is the lemon. 

Brexit actually hasn't even happened yet, so it can be argued that the public is within a reasonable time limit to nix it. 

[Berkshire]

8 hours ago, NE1 said:

You can't have a second vote , that is not democratic. 

It would set a very expensive and trouble making precedent. 

The vote was put to the people and the people voted , that is the end of it.

Otherwise you will end up with a " Red shirt / Yellow shirt scenario" .

General election , Tories won ,  we want another vote. Labour won , we want another vote.

 

 

How about a referendum to determine whether there should be a second vote?  That would be democratic...no? 

[BobBKK]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Ever hear of lemon laws?
You buy a car from a corrupt slick lying salesman and it turns out to be a piece of garbage.

Lemon laws allow buyers to take the car back within a short period of time.

Brexit is the lemon. 

Brexit actually hasn't even happened yet, so it can be argued that the public is within a reasonable time limit to nix it. 

For once I agree with you. Things have changed immeasurably since the vote and we should have a chance to say whether we agree with May's * up or not

[JonnyF]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Ever hear of lemon laws?
You buy a car from a corrupt slick lying salesman and it turns out to be a piece of garbage.

Lemon laws allow buyers to take the car back within a short period of time.

Brexit is the lemon. 

Brexit actually hasn't even happened yet, so it can be argued that the public is within a reasonable time limit to nix it. 

We haven't even left yet, so how do you know if Brexit is a lemon?

 

In your (pretty weak) analogy, it's like declaring the car you've bought is a lemon before you've even put the keys in the ignition and left the car park.

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, NE1 said:

How does anybody know what the majority of the UK public are thinking ?

 

THAT is not sweat at all,

 

ask any argumentative leaver or remainer and you will be drowned in evidence how the public thinks.

 

or ask any msm, they will gladly offer you the same service

 

[Loiner]

Indeed you are wrong - YouGov is an entirely independent organisation. It is YouGov that determine the representative sample - its what they do.
 
Most people would vote to remain now as they hadn't the first idea what carnage would, and will, follow the leave vote. Boris as their leader says it all !
 
 

YouGov is the government, therefore not trustworthy in any aspect of Brexit.
Many more people would leave, now that they have seen the duplicity of the Remainers and EU mafia plot.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ukrules]

They had a referendum in 2016, it doesn't matter what they do now.

 

The results of the 2016 referendum still stand and always will. They are set in stone.

 

We made our membership of the now renamed EEC continuous via a referendum back in 1975 and will now exit via the 2016 referendum.

 

Any new referendum is a separate issue.

 

People did know what they were voting for in 2016, there was a lot of talk about the WTO back then, it was known as 'project fear'.

 

I personally did not expect the EU to do any kind of deal at all and assumed that it would be a case of reverting to WTO rules, I fully expected the leave side to win and posted so on this forum when they announced that there will be a referendum.

 

I was very surprised that Cameron held this referendum and not only that but he did it with relatively short notice because he was never going to win it. He played right into the hands of UKIP and was outsmarted on every level.

 

 

[JonnyF]

12 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

How about a referendum to determine whether there should be a second vote?  That would be democratic...no? 

How about a referendum to decide if there should be a referendum to decide if we should have a second vote?

 

We had a general election which was won based on a promise of having a referendum to leave or stay.

We had the referendum, which Leave won.

We had another general election where the Tories won with a manifesto of leaving.

 

How many more votes do we need? If Remain win a second referendum we should stop when it's 1-1? Not fair right, so let's do best of 3. But then if Remain win the third one, why should Leave accept they've lost with the score at 2-1 when Remain didn't accept they'd lost at 1-0? So, best of 5?

 

Ridiculous. We voted. Leave won. Get on with it.

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

comparing apples and oranges doesn't make a point... apples vs apples and oranges vs oranges it may work

 

comparing oranges and oranges is of no interest - they all look the same

 

comparing grapes and bananas is far more interesting'

 

 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Come on, Brexiteers don’t even understand what WTO rules mean, so much that they even reply with completely irrelevant off-topic taken from dubious weblogs that look like my little nephew has created it in Microsoft Frontpage (see user evadgib).

leavers understand WTO rules very well IT appears that anyone that post a link that doesn't support your view your trot out the same narrative about your little nephew and Microsoft Frontpage as you did when I posted links from https://order-order.com/

a website that has been running since 2004

[puipuitom]

The British system, in which county by county voters, and the majority vote gets all, opens a possibility a governmental majority can exist with only a 20% of the real votes. ( and in a system with special parties in Northern Ireland + Scotland even with less). What I see is better let the UK into the Middle Ages, but under Conservative rule, as to let the government to the opposition.

Do we want such a nation into the EU, with 2016 a 51,88 % leave and 48,11% remain, next month the opposite, and… who knows, a half year later again the opposite ?

Sorry, better without as with such an unreliable member state. 

[melvinmelvin]

31 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Cameron led the disaster when he did NOT HAVE TO. He could have said "5% majority is needed" he was a disgrace to our nation and he was arrogant and assumed he would win.

 

Don't believe me?  have another vote!  easy

 

Really hope May lose big time in the vote 

right,

he could have said 5 or 10 or whatever qualified majority needed for exit

he didn't and you got your 51+ vs 48+ result

 

and then,

the totally useless UK parliament completely fails to take responsibility and direct the floor

they completely miss out on checks and balances and then let an  inexperienced remainer PM and negotiator picked

privately in the Tory backroom to, without any control, deal alone with a vital issue like

UK-EU

 

I will not offer many farthings for your parliament,

it's pretty crappy - not at all capable of directing a way forward for UK in the time of need

 

foggy islands have severe challenges far beyond Brexit

 

 

 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, yogi100 said:

Our being in the EU permitted them to come take our jobs so companies could get cheap labour costing us millions in lost tax revenue and welfare payments. And the destruction of many of our peoples' work ethic forever.

Sorry but you are totally incorrect. Such ideas are not good enough to force through this disaster

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, yogi100 said:

 

What about all the young people who are now seeing jobs that should be theirs going to foreigners? How will they vote if they're given a chance?

what the boomboom do mean jobs that should be theirs?

are you daft? honestly?

in EU there is free movement of labour, jobs are for citizens in EU, not for scousers or geordies.

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, yogi100 said:

Manual workers of all sorts. Myself along with three pals working with for same building maintenance firm were just 4 of 'em. We later discovered that the work had not 'dried up' as we'd been told but Eastern Europeans had taken our jobs for 30 quid a day. I never worked full time again. after that.

 

Tell me how on earth you possibly expect me to prove it!

You go out on the lake in your punt and prove it never happened.

When? What was minimum wage. What hourly rate did you want. We're leaving for that???

[dunroaming]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

LONDON (Reuters) - More Britons want to remain a member of the European Union than leave, according to a survey published on Sunday which also showed voters want to make the final decision themselves.

That may well be true but after all it is just another survey/poll and as with all of these they are easily manipulated.  Only one way to know if it is true and that is still very unlikely to happen.  We are no nearer to knowing what comes next.  Like most people I don't back a peoples second referendum but I do think that people should have a say as to whether we are thrown over the cliff just for the egos of the politicians involved.  They clearly don't give a toss about what is best for the country as a whole, only their own future.

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Come on, Brexiteers don’t even understand what WTO rules mean, so much that they even reply with completely irrelevant off-topic taken from dubious weblogs that look like my little nephew has created it in Microsoft Frontpage (see user evadgib).

'Poster', again...?

Would you care to try again while concentrating on content?

Edited January 7, 2019 by evadgib

[melvinmelvin]

15 minutes ago, Grouse said:

When? What was minimum wage. What hourly rate did you want. We're leaving for that???

now, with a Belhaven in hand, I will opine

smth which tvf'ers will not appreciate (I'll do it once)

 

EU sports free movements of labour (some restrictions where language requirements are absolute for safety reasons,

and also some other limitations linked to the spooks)

 

one of several major objectives of EU is wealth distribution - this is an IMPORTANT political goal

one of several measures to achieve that is free movement of people

 

people from Poland, Bulgaria, Romania have 1-one-1 competitive edge,

that is the lower cost of living where they come from so that they can survive on lower wages

 

that is the only competitive edge they have

disallow them to use that edge and they will remain as piss poor

 

 

---

 

its a bit like child work,

children 4-5-6 years old working long days, forbid it - stop it - families die 'cause kids don't make satang

 

 

there ain't simple answers to wealth distribution'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Spidey]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

May's deal is terrible. We already voted to Leave so there is no need to have a second vote. Her deal should be rejected by parliament and then the referendum result can be implemented. No need for another vote just because she is so incompetent, especially when a clean Brexit is on the table and it costs us nothing.

 

Why would WTO rules be so terrible? That's how we already deal with most countries outside Europe already. The EU will sign a deal with us in a couple of years anyway once they stop sulking and realize how big their trade surplus is with us. I reckon you've been drinking the Project Fear cool aid. Have some confidence in the country (assuming you are from the UK).

 

We are effectively their customer. They'd be mad not to make a trade deal with us once we've left, the only reason they won't do it now is that are trying to stop us leaving. 

May's deal is terrible. No deal is worse. That's why we need another vote.

 

If you don't think that the economy is going to suffer with no deal, just look what's happening now with the threat of no deal.

 

Thinking that "it'll be alright on the night" is, as I said, pure madness. Ask anyone who understands something about the economy. 40 baht/£ ? Say goodbye to the halcyon days of the exchange rate.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Spidey

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Don’t blame me for JonnyF and evadgib not understanding WTO rules. 

------2------????

(Humour and banter are perfectly ok but as yet I haven't noticed any!)

Edited January 7, 2019 by evadgib

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, KiChakayan said:

Is this some sort of a primitive dance? 

Nah, it's an 80s pop group ????

[evadgib]

<dyslexic!>

Edited January 7, 2019 by evadgib

[Grouse]

39 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

now, with a Belhaven in hand, I will opine

smth which tvf'ers will not appreciate (I'll do it once)

 

EU sports free movements of labour (some restrictions where language requirements are absolute for safety reasons,

and also some other limitations linked to the spooks)

 

one of several major objectives of EU is wealth distribution - this is an IMPORTANT political goal

one of several measures to achieve that is free movement of people

 

people from Poland, Bulgaria, Romania have 1-one-1 competitive edge,

that is the lower cost of living where they come from so that they can survive on lower wages

 

that is the only competitive edge they have

disallow them to use that edge and they will remain as piss poor

 

 

---

 

its a bit like child work,

children 4-5-6 years old working long days, forbid it - stop it - families die 'cause kids don't make satang

 

 

there ain't simple answers to wealth distribution'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In 2019 one needs to develop saleable knowledge or skills 

 

Nobody can plan to live their lives based on the strength of their back

 

This should be taught in schools.

 

We are NOT leaving the EU just because some foolish people failed to study or learn a skill.

 

The minimum wage should be higher AND enforced through taxation controls. I would think GBP 12.00 per hour would be about right after tax? 20k per annum. About 10x Thai minimum wage. 

[MarkyM3]

Well.....I would vote for Brexit again (I am a UK resident, unlike most on this thread, living and working in the UK for 2/3 of the year). Not that we should be contemplating a second vote - faith in democracy will surely be at rock-bottom this were to happen as it means the EU becomes the equivalent of Hotel California - you can check out but you can never leave.

 

The way this process has played out has been an eye-opener, but not totally surprising to me. Theresa May handed over all important negotiations to a team led by a senior civil servant who is a self-proclaimed Europhile. The Brexit ministers were mere window dressing and hardly had any hand in proceedings. How on earth she thought she could sell the deal that she agreed is now on the table is unclear but I have more than a suspicion that was the expectation.

 

By reaching this point with only a few few months left and no expectation the deal will be passed in Parliament, there was inevitably going to be a push for another referendum. Get enough voters fed up with the constant uncertainty and lack of clarity and count on enough disaffected people to swing it the other way when they vote again. Ireland had to have a 2nd go at the Lisbon Treaty to get the "right" answer. Meanwhile, Corbyn's shower - who couldn't run a p!ss up in a brewery - can't agree their own Brexit policy so offer nothing else. I do give him credit though for stating he does not support a 2nd referendum. 

 

If the EU had actually offered Cameron any reasonable concessions prior to the referendum- which he actively sought and other EU members proudly stated they would offer nothing - then its likely the vote would never have been lost. The main concession he wanted was some kind of temporary emergency brake on immigration. Net migration has been around 250-300k per annum for years and the public infrastructure is under strain. Not something most posters on this thread have any clue about. Anthony Blair has a lot to answer for in this regard - when the new Eastern European economies joined in 2004 he ignored the transitional arrangments and immediately gave unfettered access to the UK labour market. Ireland was the only other country to do this, others (I believe) did not allow unfettered access until the transitional arrangements ended in 2011. Consequently we now find ourselves where we are. Of course, we also have a very weak system covering non-EU citizens. I work in IT (well paid and therefore have no personal axe to grind wrt wage suppression by cheap labour) and have seen skilled visa abuse for years. 

 

Couple of other points - branding Brexit voters as "old and white" or racists (I consider my neither) is pathetic and lazy. Also, saw an early poster mentioned the EU would love to be shot of the UK. Well.....in 2017, the EU enjoyed a £67 billion annual surplus in trade over the UK. And the UK is one of the few net contributors to the EU budget and has been throughout. Most countries are permanent takers. So the poster of that statement might wish to think more deeply about it. Is it in the EUs interest to lose this plus the £40 billion payoff they are seeking for a negotiated Brexit? If the UK leaves without a deal and reverts WTO (and why not, successful economies like Australia, SIngapore etc operate on said rules) then we ought to pay no settlement imo unless a deal is presented.   

 

Also wondering why we have billionaire George Soros financing the remain camp. What relevance does this guy have to the internal politics of the UK. Would it be appreciated for a UK billionaire to finance a campaign in respect of the Mexican wall, for example?!

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by MarkyM3

[evadgib]

 

[tebee]

22 minutes ago, MarkyM3 said:

 

 

Also wondering why we have billionaire George Soros financing the remain camp. What relevance does this guy have to the internal politics of the UK. Would it be appreciated for a UK billionaire to finance a campaign in respect of the Mexican wall, for example?!

 

Do we have any evidence that Mr Soros is financing the remain camp? 

[yogi100]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

When? What was minimum wage. What hourly rate did you want. We're leaving for that???

 

When? 2004.

 

What was minimum wage. We were earning a bit more than the minimum wage because in London few men would work for the MW.

 

What hourly rate did you want. The question of what hourly rate we wanted was not an issue 

 

We're leaving for that??? I dunno why you're leaving but probably millions of Britons voted for Leave because of THAT because it could happen to themselves and their friends just like it happened to us.

 

We also did not want hundreds of thousands of young single Muslims coming over courtesy of Merkel setting off bombs, raping our daughters and grand daughters and causing more havoc than the lot we had already allowed in were causing.

 

These things affect the working people of the UK and it's why a considerable majority of us voted to quit. 

 

Why did you vote to remain.

Edited January 7, 2019 by yogi100

[steve187]

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am sure the UK is a lot better off within the EU.

are you from the UK. and have you lived in the UK for the last 40 years, under the rule of Germany and France, where all that was British about you was gradually taken away without your permission.