CONFIRMED: Here is exactly what’s needed for retirement & marriage extensions (income method) from 2019

[trd]

The important word missing is "international" consecutive payments

Yes they are international because it's pounds sterling going into an FCD account with a Thai bank.

[scubascuba3]

The 2nd time, you'd use something reliable - like SWIFT.  Personally, I would not mess around with TW, unless some sort of clarity from them on knowing how a transfer will be classified can be reliably determined.

i thought i read that even with swifts it can be hit and miss? or maybe that was specific to Kasikorns coding that doesn't specify Intl?

[farangx]

5 minutes ago, trd said:

13 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

The important word missing is "international" consecutive payments

Yes they are international because it's pounds sterling going into an FCD account with a Thai bank.

That could mean taking a stack of GBP notes to a Thai bank for deposits into a n FCB account.  So no.  The Thai bank here in Thailand needs to see this as a proven transfer from overseas.

[trd]

That could mean taking a stack of GBP notes to a Thai bank for deposits into a n FCB account.  So no.  The Thai bank here in Thailand needs to see this as a proven transfer from overseas.

Why would I use notes? I transfer money by swift transfer from the UK otherwise it wouldn't be an international transfer would it?

[trd]

Wow this is so confusing. I have a simple question. Okay so if I can show 12 previous consecutive payments of 30,000 baht a month going into my account, when I next come to renew my retirement do I then only have to have a total sum of 800,000 - 360,000 (12x30k) = 440,000 baht showing in the account three months prior to renewal date?

So having clarified that this is indeed a swift transfer coming from the UK and that I have successfully used this FCD account two years running for my retirement extension based on lump sum, is what I am asking correct? Do I only need to show a sum of 440,000 baht.

[farangx]

8 minutes ago, trd said:

So having clarified that this is indeed a swift transfer coming from the UK and that I have successfully used this FCD account two years running for my retirement extension based on lump sum, is what I am asking correct? Do I only need to show a sum of 440,000 baht.

Assuming your Thai bank are happy with your said foreign transfers for the 12 months, you will need an additional sum of 440K for seasoning.  The word "only" is "complicating".

[trd]

Assuming your Thai bank are happy with your said foreign transfers for the 12 months, you will need an additional sum of 440K for seasoning.  The word "only" is "complicating".

There's no reason for the bank to be unhappy because they are indeed swift transfers. Why should they be unhappy? It is what it is. Only is complicated? With all due respect I don't think I'm going to get an answer in this forum that I can trust so I'm going to refer this to the Thai agent who does my retirement extension for me. She is in the immigration office everyday. I think I will get an accurate answer from her.

 

[ocddave]

1 hour ago, KhunFred said:

I think the confusion comes over what the various income letters are CALLED. For Americans and some others, it is a statutory declaration. I don't know if the UK Embassy calls it that, but they definitely had been issuing some kind of "income letter" up until they stopped. America followed the lead of the UK, for once. Apparently ALL the embassies were not comfortable issuing letters without concrete proof. My question is: WHY would an income tax receipt not suffice to prove income? it is about as clear as any income letter.

Because who is going to certify it? I still think the US Embassy should do so based on their being part of the US State Department, which does Authenticate government documents, and others that are notarized.

Edited January 10, 2019 by ocddave

[David Walden]

1 hour ago, KhunFred said:

I think the confusion comes over what the various income letters are CALLED. For Americans and some others, it is a statutory declaration. I don't know if the UK Embassy calls it that, but they definitely had been issuing some kind of "income letter" up until they stopped. America followed the lead of the UK, for once. Apparently ALL the embassies were not comfortable issuing letters without concrete proof. My question is: WHY would an income tax receipt not suffice to prove income? it is about as clear as any income letter.

Income tax is often overpaid by taxpayers in Australia  I.E. provisional tax is assessed and you have to pay it by the due date in advance of what the tax man thinks you are going to earn in the following 3 months period, even if your business is running at a loss.  At some later date when you put the tax return in with the final figure it may be that you did not earn anything were in a loss situation and the taxman gives you a refund cheque because you had no income.  trying to use tax figures to get a Retirement Visa in Thailand would have holes than Swiss cheese.

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

If using this service, best to send early in the month, remember to check every month that you got the international-code with the transfer, and have a "spare" monthly-minimum amount to send the same month, in case you don't get the correct code. 

And if it happens again?

Edited January 10, 2019 by jacko45k

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, bloody tiger said:

Does anyone have a link to the actual original Thai version of this new order?

See attachment.

Memorandum 181226 supporting income evidence TH.pdf

[farangx]

12 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

And if it happens again?

It should be a self-imposed personal standing order.

 

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, trd said:

 

 

So having clarified that this is indeed a swift transfer coming from the UK and that I have successfully used this FCD account two years running for my retirement extension based on lump sum, is what I am asking correct? Do I only need to show a sum of 440,000 baht.

 

Yes if you have a monthly international transfer equal to 30k baht. But you must remember that when you apply for the extension they will calculate the amount in baht on the date you do the extension and the bank will calculate the balance in baht based upon the exchange rate for the date they write the letter. You should have some extra in the account 3 months before you do the extension to allow for exchange rate fluctuations.

[trd]

Yes if you have a monthly international transfer equal to 30k baht. But you must remember that when you apply for the extension they will calculate the amount in baht on the date you do the extension and the bank will calculate the balance in baht based upon the exchange rate for the date they write the letter. You should have some extra in the account 3 months before you do the extension to allow for exchange rate fluctuations.

Thanks Joe, I knew I could rely on you. Yes I've used FCD before based on lump sum and the bank writes a letter saying what the baht equivalent is based on that days exchange rate so I always make sure I have more than I actually need particularly considering how the pound's going at the moment.

[ubonjoe]

25 minutes ago, trd said:

Thanks Joe, I knew I could rely on you. Yes I've used FCD before based on lump sum and the bank writes a letter saying what the baht equivalent is based on that days exchange rate so I always make sure I have more than I actually need particularly considering how the pound's going at the moment.

 

For the combination you will have to consider the monthly transfers when you add some for the exchange rate. That could of changed a lot on some of the older transfers.

[trd]

For the combination you will have to consider the monthly transfers when you add some for the exchange rate. That could of changed a lot on some of the older transfers.

I'm not quite clear. My retirement extension is due for renewal December 2019. Are you saying that when I get to December the bank will confirm the exchange rate for the previous 12 sterling swift transfers one by one based on the historical exchange rates at the time they were received.

[mogandave]

I'm not quite clear. My retirement extension is due for renewal December 2019. Are you saying that when I get to December the bank will confirm the exchange rate for the previous 12 sterling swift transfers one by one based on the historical exchange rates at the time they were received.

Assuming you are maintaining a foreign currency account, they will likely use the legal monthly average as a conversion for each month.

[farangx]

2 hours ago, KhunFred said:

I think the confusion comes over what the various income letters are CALLED. For Americans and some others, it is a statutory declaration. I don't know if the UK Embassy calls it that, but they definitely had been issuing some kind of "income letter" up until they stopped. America followed the lead of the UK, for once. Apparently ALL the embassies were not comfortable issuing letters without concrete proof. My question is: WHY would an income tax receipt not suffice to prove income? it is about as clear as any income letter.

The Embassy then will have to liaise with the tax department and/or other government departments and/or private institutions etc. to address your particular needs.  Perhaps it would be nice for the Embassy for offer a paid service for their such liaisons with fees charged depending on complexities.

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes if you have a monthly international transfer equal to 30k baht. But you must remember that when you apply for the extension they will calculate the amount in baht on the date you do the extension and the bank will calculate the balance in baht based upon the exchange rate for the date they write the letter. You should have some extra in the account 3 months before you do the extension to allow for exchange rate fluctuations.

Which exchange rate does immigration use:  The Notes (Cash) rate like used when exchanging hard cash or TT Buying Rate used for incoming international transfers?

 

And which Thai bank exchange rate do they use?  Bangkok Bank, K-bank, the applicant's bank, etc.?

 

Thanks.

[ubonjoe]

32 minutes ago, Pib said:

Which exchange rate does immigration use:  The Notes (Cash) rate like used when exchanging hard cash or TT Buying Rate used for incoming international transfers?

And which Thai bank exchange rate do they use?  Bangkok Bank, K-bank, the applicant's bank, etc.?

I have never noticed what rate they used since I was not concerned about it since the amount on my affidavits were well above the 40k baht I needed.

I have seen posts that said they used Bangkok Bank's rate. Some people have said it was the TT rate and others the $100 cash rate.

 

[Jonathan Swift]

On 1/7/2019 at 4:16 PM, MikeOKitches said:

I got my income affidavit notarized by the US Embassy here in Bangkok on November 30, 2018. I was told by the US Embassy at the time that the letter (income affidavit) I executed (and they notarized) would be valid for 6 months from date of issuance. That would mean it's valid until May 31, 2018.  My Retirement Visa renewal is scheduled for March 31, 2019. I'm hearing conflicting reports from people who've been to different Thai Immigration centers. Some say they won't accept the US Embassy notarized Income Affidavit in 2019 at all. Is there any credible source that can definitely tell me if I can use my November 30, 2018 letter (income affidavit) in March 2019 when I renew my Retirement Visa? Or is just a waste of paper now? I was planning on renewing at Thai Immigration at Chaeng Watthana here in Bangkok.  

I have been told by all reliable sources including the US Embassy and officials from Chaeng Watthana that  everyone will get a 6 month window as you were told. I processed my visa at Chaeng Watthana In December, got my affidavit in November. So you should be fine. If in doubt, call them. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Jonathan Swift
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[Rambo]

7 hours ago, Rambo said:

I am due to apply for extension to stay based upon retirement in mid July 2019 (it will be my 15th consecutive application) using the monthly income method. Whilst some time away I wish to ensure compliance with the new directives. If I have correctly understood the directives I am required to demonstrate the transfer of not less than 65k baht per month for the last 12 months from overseas and paid into bank accounts in Thailand. I must therefore provide the information dating back to July 2018, albeit the new requirements came into effect on 1st January 2019.

 

I have two pensions both of which are transferred directly into Bangkok Bank but in different currencies,  and have been for a number of years. My UK State Pension is paid in Thai Baht into Bangkok Bank Savings Account every 4 weeks whilst my Company Pension is paid monthly in GBP into Foreign Currency Deposit Account. So could I ask :

1. Will I be able to continue transferring money into the two Bangkok  Bank Accounts in this manner?

2. I can download Statements from both accounts on a monthly basis using BKK internet banking. Will this be acceptable ? Would these Statements need to be signed by the Bank or myself ?

3 What do I need to give to Bangkok Bank to obtain Certification Letter ? Would a separate letter be needed for each Account ?

4. Does the Bank Certification Letter(s) have timing constraints given that I normally apply for extension to stay 2-3 weeks before the due date.

5 Given that not less than 65k must be transferred very month does this imply that failure to do so gives grounds for IO to reject an application ?

 

Would appreciate any guidance or clarification.

 

[DogNo1]

Ubonjoe: I didn't get the embassy affidavit because I thought that the proof of income shown on my USAA Bank statement would continue to be accepted without the embassy affidavit.  I guessed wrong.  It is an expensive mistake.  Nobody has offered an opinion about whether immigration will be lenient about the seasoning period required for a deposit of 800,000 in a Thai bank.  I prefer not to go the monthly transfer route because of the cost and trouble involved with SWIFT wires to Bangkok Bank every month.

The reason I mentioned a 60 extension is because someone suggested that immigration would give one to a person who had not yet managed to qualify under the new proof of income rules.

 

And to JL Crab, I would never say that my affairs in another country are more important than my affairs in Thailand.  As a citizen of the US and a permanent resident of Japan, I have responsibilities in those countries that I hope that immigration would be sympathetic to and allow me an extension just this year when my 800,000 has been in the bank less than three months.  Somewhere back many pages ago someone said that immigration would work with people this year.  

I have talked to several people who hoped that they would not have to bring their money into Thailand, because, like me, they do not spend the full year here and have financial responsibilities outside of Thailand.  

I admit though that not getting the embassy affidavit was an expensive tactical error.  I am now thinking of trying Neyzhov's idea of writing up my own declaration of Income and getting it notarized at the US Embassy.  As a last resort, I will use an agent.

[JLCrab]

18 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

And to JL Crab, I would never say that my affairs in another country are more important than my affairs in Thailand.

I have no idea what Thai IMM will or will not do under your circumstances. They may be lenient or they may say:

 

No problem. Just tell the folks in Japan that you're going to be a little late this time.

Edited January 10, 2019 by JLCrab

[David Walden]

8 minutes ago, Rambo said:

 

Rambo...not to many quick answers there.  It all still seems to be up in the air.  Theoretically now that's a big word with lots of options very few of which are clear in Thailand.  I believe the best thing to do to get a retirement Visa is to keep it simple.  One bank account would be better than 2 accounts.  Where a lot of confusion with pensions exists is that some are whole of life, these are usually govt pensions. when you die it stops. They go up as the cost of living goes up. they are paid as long as you are alive.  The other type is that you buy a pension from a provident fund which consists of units.  These units are your property and by arrangement with the fund you download an amount usually monthly to live on e.g you put Aus$200,000 into a fund and that buys you 20,000 at $10 each=$200K.  These units are yours... Each year if the funs go up 6%or 8% and you download $1000p/m at the end end of 12 months you have taken $12,000 you still have $200,000 or more.  The $200,000 is now the surrender value of your asset within the provident fund just a bit like having money in a bank, my fund is managed by the ANZ Bank in Aus.  In Australia and perhaps UK the Thai Embassy will allow to use the surrender value to be treated just as if it is money is in a bank.  So a retirement fund in Australia with a value of only = to Bt800,000 is enough to get that visa.  If you have a whole of life retirement all is much more complicated.  I use the surrender value of my retirement fund which is a bit more than the required amount to get my O-A  M retirement visa in Australia, very simple to do.  Plus of course the paperwork, medical, police report etc all done in 10 days in Aus and arrive in Thailand all done.  I went about putting my affairs in order 4 years ago so I could do it all this way.  I also get an Aussie Aged Pension but the lady at the Thai Embassy reminds me not to mention that as surrender value is enough to get the Visa.  "Don't say what you don't need to say, it will only confuse Immigration in Thailand where all is processed, keep it simple?" she says.

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The 2nd time, you'd use something reliable - like SWIFT.  Personally, I would not mess around with TW, unless some sort of clarity from them on knowing how a transfer will be classified can be reliably determined.

i thought i read that even with swifts it can be hit and miss? or maybe that was specific to Kasikorns coding that doesn't specify Intl?

Possibly if an intermediary bank is used - but that is in the instructions given by the receiving bank, and added to the form, in my experience - so you could know before sending if there was a problem. 

[JackThompson]

35 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

I hope that immigration would be sympathetic to and allow me an extension just this year when my 800,000 has been in the bank less than three months.  Somewhere back many pages ago someone said that immigration would work with people this year.   

... on how many months of monthly-transfers they had, if less than 12, because this is a new procedure.  Getting a break on the 3 mo seasoning for "in the bank" money seems unlikely.   I sincerely wish you the best of luck, though.  The IO does have the power to waive the seasoning, but unfortunately only tend to do this for agent-money applications.

[bloody tiger]

4 hours ago, OJAS said:

See attachment.

Memorandum 181226 supporting income evidence TH.pdf

thanks OJAS, exactly what I was after

[ubonjoe]

It has finally been announced on the immigration website in Thai only.

https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5c37229d2f2641bbe7886e1d

I downloaded it and created a new file name for it. Amendment to police order 138-2557 (Thai).pdf

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by ubonjoe
uploaded file with corrected file name

[ocddave]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It has finally been announced on the immigration website in Thai only.

https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5c37229d2f2641bbe7886e1d

I downloaded it and created a new file name for it. Ammendment to police order 138-2557.pdf (excuse the error in spelling I just noticed).

 

 

"Cannot locate the item error" on your second file.