CONFIRMED: Here is exactly what’s needed for retirement & marriage extensions (income method) from 2019

[Odysseus123]

Until next week,next month or next year.

[farangx]

21 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

This a circular argument that just keeps going round and round. So here I go one last time.

 

The T/W transaction slip could be used to satisfy the bank that the transaction on your statement is a genuine foreign remittance, when requesting the letter.

Based on a TW reply previously, they stated that the funds don't arrive internationally and that it (the funds) comes out from their own Thai account here. The TW transaction slip seemed to be the only proof the funds were foreign.  I am surprise that a local bank would even tagged them as international transfer when it isn't.  Perhaps that is what TW meant when they say they cooperated with 3 locals banks, but not all 3 cooperated fully.  Please correct if necessary.

 

[roobaa01]

i would obtain a second savings passbook soly for the pension receipt then after 12 months 12 entries and 12 withdrawals easiy for the io to check.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[scubascuba3]

 

 

 

 

I would say at this point, there's zero indication that ATM withdrawal slips from machines here in Thailand are going to satisfy Thai Immigration. Because, among various other reasons, you'd still need a Thai bank to issue a letter certifying that you had 12 monthly foreign deposits into your Thai bank account. And ATM withdrawals aren't that!

 

 

 

You could make a better case for ATM withdrawals from a farang card being more an international payment than one of Transferwises transfers.

 

Although people have ruled out the above, 12 withdrawals from a farang account may be worth discussing with their Thai bank

 

[farangx]

7 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

You could make a better case for ATM withdrawals from a farang card being more an international payment than one of Transferwises transfers.

 

Although people have ruled out the above, 12 withdrawals from a farang account may be worth discussing with their Thai bank

 

It might just work. ????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

Although people have ruled out the above, 12 withdrawals from a farang account may be worth discussing with their Thai bank

 

 

I was specifically addressing the prior poster's question about using Thai bank ATM/foreign card withdrawal slips as documentation.

 

Under the new rules, supposedly, the two things TI will want to see as documentation of foreign deposits INTO A THAI BANK account are 1] the Thai bankbook showing those deposits, and 2] a Thai bank letter confirming those deposits.

 

I don't think Thai ATM withdrawal slips of withdrawals from a foreign account are going to get a person either of those requirements, if for no other reason that ATM withdrawals don't ever constitute a foreign DEPOSIT into a Thai bank account. (Nor would withdrawing the funds in cash from a foreign account, and then depositing that cash into a Thai bank account, since that would be a local cash deposit).

 

And beyond that, at least when I do foreign card/Thai ATM withdrawals here, my Thai bank ATM slips don't seem to give any indication of the SOURCE of the withdrawn funds, just a portion of the funding account number, but not even any bank name or other identifying info.

 

I'd really like it if foreign card/Thai bank ATM withdrawals WOULD work for satisfying Thai Immigration. But I just don't see it working based on anything that's been said in the newly issued rules.

 

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, SPREX said:

 2.18 In the case of being a family member of a Thai national (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted 
children, or spouse’s children): 
 Procedure 

 

Evidence showing income not less than 65 000 Bahts Monthly Includes:

 

Not sure where you got the 65k baht number from. This is what the amendment states.

[Pattaya46]

30 minutes ago, SPREX said:

look and think why the formulation have been fully changed with actual Command order //

deleted. (I jut can't understand what to tried to show with your post. confusing )

Edited January 11, 2019 by Pattaya46

[steve73]

17 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I was specifically addressing the prior poster's question about using Thai bank ATM/foreign card withdrawal slips as documentation.

 

Under the new rules, supposedly, the two things TI will want to see as documentation of foreign deposits INTO A THAI BANK account are 1] the Thai bankbook showing those deposits, and 2] a Thai bank letter confirming those deposits.

 

I don't think Thai ATM withdrawal slips of withdrawals from a foreign account are going to get a person either of those requirements, if for no other reason that ATM withdrawals don't ever constitute a foreign DEPOSIT into a Thai bank account. (Nor would withdrawing the funds in cash from a foreign account, and then depositing that cash into a Thai bank account, since that would be a local cash deposit).

 

And beyond that, at least when I do foreign card/Thai ATM withdrawals here, my Thai bank ATM slips don't seem to give any indication of the SOURCE of the withdrawn funds, just a portion of the funding account number, but not even any bank name or other identifying info.

 

I'd really like it if foreign card/Thai bank ATM withdrawals WOULD work for satisfying Thai Immigration. But I just don't see it working based on anything that's been said in the newly issued rules.

 

Could you not use a Foreign ATM/Debit or Credit card to directly pay into your Thai Bank account..?  I.e. requested at your Thai bank counter...

Has anybody tried this, or asked their bank if it can be done, and would it be credited as a Foreign transfer?

Edited January 11, 2019 by steve73

[SPREX]

2 .22 Retirement

Each extension is not more than 1 year.

procedure 

 

Evidence showing income not less than 65 000 Bahts Monthly Includes:

Evidence showing pension a letter of certification on deposit in the bank in Thailand and bank The Statement of showing Money Transfer from Overseas Every most for the past 12 months.

 

Except in case where the Applicant’s retirement is less than 1 year, the evidence must be from the month of retirement.

For Example,

The Retirement is started in October 2018, the applicant must Show Pension Payment evidence from November 2018 and Pension payment evidence of the whole 12 months is required for the next year. or;

2) income certification certified by the Embassy or consular

 

Actual order command 2014 

2.22 In the case of retirement: 
 Each permission shall be granted for no more 
than one year. 

The alien: 
(1) Must have been granted a non­ immigrant visa (NON­-IM). 
(2) Must be 50 years of age or over. 
(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month: or 
(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no
less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must
have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no
less than 60 days prior to the filing date: or 

(5) Must have an annual earning and fluids deposited with a bank totaling no less than
Baht 800,0000 as of the filing date. 
(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been 
consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the follo
criteria: 
(a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with fluids 
maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or ha
a monthly income of no less than Baht 20,000 
(b)
If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual
fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no les
than Baht 500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000 
 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Could you not use a Foreign ATM/Debit or Credit card to directly pay into your Thai Bank account..?

Has anybody tried this, or asked their bank if it can be done, and would it be credited as a Foreign transfer?

 

That to me is a more interesting question with at least a bit of potential promise. What you're talking about is commonly referred to as a counter withdrawal. And of course, hasn't been tested in this context as yet.

 

However, AFAIK, generally, counter withdrawals get handled almost like an ATM withdrawal, where the Thai bank charges your card and then hands the cash to you. They don't somehow move the funds into any/your Thai bank account first, and then hand you the money.

 

So I'm afraid, that latter aspect is likely the downfall of counter withdrawals in this context. But that's just my guess, since that kind of transaction doesn't create any foreign deposit into a Thai bank account transaction per se.

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[farangx]

2 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Could you not use a Foreign ATM/Debit or Credit card to directly pay into your Thai Bank account..?

Has anybody tried this, or asked their bank if it can be done, and would it be credited as a Foreign transfer?

I did thought about that.  But for it to work, the Thai bank teller would just swipe your card and update the bank book with the amount you want with no cash involved.  What that is likely to happen is she will take the cash out from your CC like an ATm and then deposit the cash into your Thai bank account.

 

[steve73]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That to me is a more interesting question with at least a bit of potential promise. What you're talking about is commonly referred to as a counter withdrawal. And of course, hasn't been tested in this context as yet.

 

However, AFAIK, generally, counter withdrawals get handled almost like an ATM withdrawal, where the Thai bank charges your card and then hands the cash to you. They don't somehow move the funds into any Thai bank account first, and then hand you the money.

 

So I'm afraid, that latter aspect is likely the downfall of counter withdrawals in this context. But that's just my guess, since that kind of transaction doesn't create any foreign deposit into a Thai bank account transaction per se.

 

You are correct if you make a counter withdrawal..

 

But could they (if specifically requested) directly credit your account...?  And would it be adequately recorded?

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

So I'm afraid, that latter aspect is likely the downfall of counter withdrawals in this context. But that's just my guess, since that kind of transaction doesn't create any foreign deposit into a Thai bank account transaction per se.

I believe you are correct because even if you asked them to immediately put this into your Thai account- it would probably be coded as a cash deposit.  It's too bad- obviously foreign sourced. Easily proved by showing your  foreign bank statement as it will be listed as being done in Thailand.  Charges if any minimal plus you have the funds immediately.

 

Another problem with the bank transfer is it can take 3-5 days to appear in your account if using SWIFT which will show as a foreign transfer.  That means if I need to use funds today- I have to use my foreign aTM and take out money plus send 65K for the transfer.  Not so simple... a real pain in the arse.

 

 

[Pattaya46]

15 minutes ago, SPREX said:

2 .22 Retirement

Each extension is not more than 1 year.

Evidence showing income not less than 65 000 Bahts Monthly Includes:

...

 

Actual order command 2014 

2.22 In the case of retirement: 
...

(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month: or 

...

Looks like you still didn't understood that all the 2.22 of this addendum

fully replace the (3) of the actual Police Order.  

It's a new option for those who can't have an embassy letter anymore.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, steve73 said:

But could they (if specifically requested) directly credit your account...?  And would it be adequately recorded?

 

Give it a try, ask and see....  There's only one way to find out for sure.

 

But in my experience, with foreign card cash advances or counter withdrawals or whatever name people want to use, the funds never seem to get directly deposited into your Thai bank account. It's cash to you and then you can deposit it into a Thai bank account, even if the teller never actually hands you the withdrawn funds.

 

[Pib]

29 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Could you not use a Foreign ATM/Debit or Credit card to directly pay into your Thai Bank account..?  I.e. requested at your Thai bank counter...

Has anybody tried this, or asked their bank if it can be done, and would it be credited as a Foreign transfer?

I do it all the time...that is, use of my foreign debit card to do a counter withdrawal (a.k.a., cash advance) and have that withdrawal deposited directly into my account.  But it gets coded as a domestic deposit.

 

It's kinda like a combo transaction (but it's really two transactions).  The money never touches my hands or the bank clerk hands.  The clerk actually does two transactions: Step 1 - does the cash advance transaction which puts the withdrawn money into kinda of a holding pattern...probably put in central account for a few minutes.  I do get a receipt at that times just like any other receipt you get when making a purchase, doing an ATM withdrawal, etc.  And then Step 2 (really a separate transaction from Step 1) - deposits the money from that holding pattern to my account a few minutes minutes later which shows as any other domestic deposit.  During step 2 the clerk prepares a deposit slip and has me sign it....then the clerk finalizes the deposit to my account...we are done.

 

I doubt a person could convince the bank to code that two-step combo transaction as an "international deposit/transfer."  Expect the same if you had withdrawn the money from an ATM within the branch and then immediately deposited it at the counter.   But "This Is Thailand" and maybe a bank branch here and there would do it if asked nicely. 

 

I can only say my combo transaction gets coded as a domestic deposit...whether I've done the counter withdrawal at Krungsri Bank or Bangkok Bank.  But the next time I do a counter cash advance (still months away) I do plan to ask the question.  I figure the worst that could result is a "no-can-do" answer....gotta be coded as a domestic deposit....have a nice day.

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by Pib

[Moonlover]

37 minutes ago, farangx said:

Based on a TW reply previously, they stated that the funds don't arrive internationally and that it (the funds) comes out from their own Thai account here. The TW transaction slip seemed to be the only proof the funds were foreign.  I am surprise that a local bank would even tagged them as international transfer when it isn't.  Perhaps that is what TW meant when they say they cooperated with 3 locals banks, but not all 3 cooperated fully.  Please correct if necessary.

 

Your assumption is correct that a T/W transaction shows up as domestic credit (with the exception of BBK apparently) for the reason you stated. This is quite clear from their informative web site as well.

 

And this is why I am belabouring (with boring repetition!) that the transaction slip could be very important. The bank might not be able to prove, through their system that a deposit was none-domestic. But with the transaction slip, you can.

[mogandave]

Your assumption is correct that a T/W transaction shows up as domestic credit (with the exception of BBK apparently) for the reason you stated. This is quite clear from their informative web site as well.
 
And this is why I am belabouring (with boring repetition!) that the transaction slip could be very important. The bank might not be able to prove, through their system that a deposit was none-domestic. But with the transaction slip, you can.

But the domestic transfer could be shown to have originated from TransferWise.

[farangx]

49 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Your assumption is correct that a T/W transaction shows up as domestic credit (with the exception of BBK apparently) for the reason you stated. This is quite clear from their informative web site as well.

 

And this is why I am belabouring (with boring repetition!) that the transaction slip could be very important. The bank might not be able to prove, through their system that a deposit was none-domestic. But with the transaction slip, you can.

It is unlikely the banks are going to doctored their transaction records to reflect that slip in their system.  So while they (the banks) can understand this money originated from "overseas", it is not in the bank's interest to state that as such in their letter.

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by farangx

[scubascuba3]

 
Give it a try, ask and see....  There's only one way to find out for sure.
 
But in my experience, with foreign card cash advances or counter withdrawals or whatever name people want to use, the funds never seem to get directly deposited into your Thai bank account. It's cash to you and then you can deposit it into a Thai bank account, even if the teller never actually hands you the withdrawn funds.
 

The only way for it to work is to discuss with the bank who will issue the letter, a senior member of staff with good english. I think Kasikorn has a 20k withdrawal limit with mastercard so thats no use. I'd need to withdraw 65k etc from a bank counter then deposit to my Kasikorn a/c. The only way to find out is ask and show proof of the overseas account being used

[sfokevin]

20 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

But the domestic transfer could be shown to have originated from TransferWise.

 

On a similar thread someone suggested you can request from your bank a “Credit Advice Detail” on any specific transaction.. For KBank these are free if ordered within 3 months... Not sure what it would show?... But if the name TransferWise was on it and you had Transferwises own receipt as well as a certified Thai bank statement these three transaction copies dated the same date together should be enough for a Immigration... If not I can only assume that Immigration has no intention of allowing income method to be used...

Edited January 11, 2019 by sfokevin

[Pib]

Over 2019 I have no doubt we are going to see posts describing success in convincing the immigration office the transfers showing as domestic transfers on the Thai bank statement/passbook were really International transfers like showing Transferwise receipts.

And other posts where the immigration office would only accept a Thai bank statement/passbook with International coding reflected...don't want to have nothing to do with 12 Transferwise receipts, ATM slips, etc.

Guess we'll need to wait and see just what may be acceptable proof if the Thai bank statement/passbook my itself does not show International transfer coding. Until then it's kinda like "Do you feel today?"

[JLCrab]

14 minutes ago, Pib said:

And other posts where the immigration office would only accept a Thai bank statement/passbook with International coding reflected...don't want to have nothing to do with 12 Transferwise receipts, ATM slips, etc.

I have now done NOV18 DEC18 and JAN19 65k+ baht SWIFT transfers that each shows FTT in the Bangkok Bank passbook. The IMM folks may say:

"If that Crab guy can do it, why can't you?" 

Edited January 11, 2019 by JLCrab

[mogandave]

I have now done NOV18 DEC18 and JAN19 65k+ baht SWIFT transfers that each shows FTT in the Bangkok passbook. The IMM folks may say:
"If that Crab guy can do it, why can't you?" 

It’s not fair!!!

[Pib]

I have now done NOV18 DEC18 and JAN19 65k+ baht SWIFT transfers that each shows FTT in the Bangkok passbook. The IMM folks may say:
"If that Crab guy can do it, why can't you?" 

Awesome...now get over to DeeMoney and rotate it back. (grin)

[jimn]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

That was immigration's plan, all along.  But I cannot say I blame you one bit - especially as a part-time person here. 

 

Since you do go back to the UK every year, you could consider the Non-OA Visa, also - though still could be more trouble/hassle than immigration's "my agent buddy" offer.

Thanks for that. Yes I will consider the Non OA option. I think its £125 for the visa, £50 for police report, £30 for doctors signature and about £15 for notorising documents. Add to that maybe £30 travelling to London. Total £220 or 9,000 baht. Weighing that up against 12,900 baht for an agent. But with the Non OA option if I do it right I will get 2 Years. As I have said I am ok until May 2020 hopefully,9 with an embassy letter already obtained, so its then I will have to decide what route to take. The 65K a month transfer from the UK is definately out for me, for reasons described in an earlier post.

[DogNo1]

In my earlier post about possible BANKS which could do the Medallion Signature Guarantee, I was asking whether the US Embassy or US military here might have a BANK on embassy grounds that could do the signature guarantee.  The embassy and various military bases in Japan all have a US bank to serve the civilians and military members there.  I was NOT asking whether the embassy itself was able to issue Medallion Signature Guarantees.

 

Actually, it would have been simpler if immigration had just continued accepting the proof of income that they had been accepting all along.  In my case that was regular retirement income shown on my USAA checking statement.  

 

I suppose it's possible that immigration would be so nitpicky as to not allow an occasional foreign transfer that was mislabelled as domestic, especially if a transfer slip for that transfer from TW could be shown.  

Also, cash advances from my Navy Fed credit card are always accompanied by photo copies of the credit card and my passport.  If all of the cash-advance money were deposited into my Bangkok Bank within five minutes of the cash being produced, how would that not qualify as a transfer of funds from a foreign source?

This process has been made much more complicated by the requirement of the monthly transfer of 65,000 into a Thai bank when they could have just kept accepting the proof of income that was acceptable all along.  I think the answer is because this will now get a huge amount of money into the Thai banks.  Their "float" which they can use for various money-making purposes is going to increase dramatically.

[Pib]

10 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

In my earlier post about possible BANKS which could do the Medallion Signature Guarantee, I was asking whether the US Embassy or US military here might have a BANK on embassy grounds that could do the signature guarantee.  The embassy and various military bases in Japan all have a US bank to serve the civilians and military members there.  I was NOT asking whether the embassy itself was able to issue Medallion Signature Guarantees.

 

Nothing is available from US military in Thailand like JUSMAGTHAI.  No US military bank capability in Thailand. 

 

Nor can you get it at the US Embassy

Partial quote from US Embassy - Bangkok

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/

 

Quote

 

Services we CANNOT provide:

 

• Signature or Medallion guarantees:  A Medallion Signature Guarantee is not a notarial service, but rather a special procedure related to securities, which can only be performed by an authorized representative of a financial institution participating in a medallion program approved by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC).

 

[Olmate]

4 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

This a circular argument that just keeps going round and round. So here I go one last time.

 

The T/W transaction slip could be used to satisfy the bank that the transaction on your statement is a genuine foreign remittance, when requesting the letter.

 

And here's something to ponder. Many UK government pensions that are paid directly to Thai banks use Citycorp or Citybank to handle them on their behalf. They also show up as domestic deposits. How is the bank and the client going to deal with that one?

 

Yes, there are quite a number of issues and there will be teething problems for sure.

 

But it wasn't so long ago that many folks were adamant that we would never see income based extensions again. Where are they now? Or have they all morphed  from 'won't happen' to 'can't happen because........'?

That all sounds null and void to me, far cry from your response earlier today,if your not sure what you spruking shoose up till you are.