CONFIRMED: Here is exactly what’s needed for retirement & marriage extensions (income method) from 2019

[Maestro]

11 hours ago, roobaa01 said:

thereto it does not state "superseding" other method etc.. in the police order.

 

wbr

roobaa01

Correct.

 

The Immigration Bureau Memorandum of 26 December 2018 does not supersede, modify or abrogate any part of currently valid laws, Ministerial Regulations, Police Orders or Immigration Bureau orders. It is an internal communication from the immigration head office to the local immigration office clarifying the procedures for the documentary requirement for evidence of income for those cases where applicants for an extension of stay use this method. If anything is modified, it is an earlier Memorandum on the procedures for the same subject (perhaps Immigration Bureau Memorandum No. 0029-171/W 1712 dated 22 April 2013, of which I have found no copy)

[elviajero]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

16 minutes ago, elviajero said:

[Retirement] It is not a "loose term".

It is a specific term to describe someone that is not working. 

Hum... more to describe someone that is no working  in Thailand.

A lot of people on "Retirement Extension" are still working when in their country.

The extension is designed/available for people that are not working (retired), and want to live in Thailand on a passive income/savings. The fact that the person is expected to be retired (not working) that expectation must extend to any work anywhere. 

 

That said, I don't think for one minute that they would cancel or refuse an extension if they found out the person was - during trips out of the country - working. 

[BEVUP]

9 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

So the existing "money in Thai bank" 800/400, still continues and the changes only concern expats using "income, combo"?

Yes, because allot of people just don't understand what is going on

 

& I'm no where near this

[farangx]

51 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Hum... more to describe someone that is no working  in Thailand.

A lot of people on "Retirement Extension" are still working when in their country.

More specifically, in Thailand I am retired, elsewhere I may not be.

 

[KhaoYai]

Forgive my possible naivety but to obtain copies of such an order suggests some form of relationship between ThaiVisa and the Immigration Authority.  If that's the case, would it be possible for those with such a relationship to ask T.I. to issue the formal requirements and an official check list for visa applicants to all offices and insist its used?

 

If that was possible it would stop some officers from making up the rules as they go along - such as in the case of a friend where Korat Immigration insist that his 40,000 baht per month income must come from abroad when the order clearly states that income tax receipts are acceptable (which Ubonjoe has confirmed relates to income earned in Thailand) yet refuse to accept his Thai tax receipts in relation to income from a business run by himself and his Thai wife.  In this case Bangkok confirmed the income could come from Thailand but refused to call Korat and advise them of their 'mistake'.

 

I've heard of other similar cases and can only guess why local offices act in this way......................not saying ????.

 

Just seems the ideal time to highlight these matters to T.I. and get them sorted - if such a relationship exists.

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

I am already with Bangkok bank. I withdraw my money from my CC, in the bank and deposit it in my account immediately. No fees and has the flexibility to put whatever money I need in my account, when I want it, ie immediately. Works for me.

It sounds like you won't be able to use this method in future if using the income method

Looks like the 800k in the bank method for me. I just wish that some people would stop saying that the new rules are no different, or even better than the old. They're not. The British Embassy has dumped on it's citizens.

[farangx]

38 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

If that was possible it would stop some officers from making up the rules as they go along - such as in the case of a friend where Korat Immigration insist that his 40,000 baht per month income must come from abroad when the order clearly states that income tax receipts are acceptable (which Ubonjoe has confirmed relates to income earned in Thailand) yet refuse to accept his Thai tax receipts in relation to income from a business run by himself and his Thai wife.  In this case Bangkok confirmed the income could come from Thailand but refused to call Korat and advise them of their 'mistake'.

Surely your friend and his wife both running a business can whipped up 400K to sit inside a Thai bank for a few months instead of using this income method.  Or get a loan of 400K for it.  Unless of course he misses this paperwork so much and he spends every cent he earns. ????

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by farangx

[skatewash]

2 hours ago, BertM said:

They will now have to make the 12 xfers even if not here full-time or even if they spend less than the 65k per mth. The embassy letters & affidavits allowed expats who didn't have the 65k or who didn't xfer 65k over the option of getting their extensions anyway. Now, that is gone.

Well, it's gone for four countries who decided to unilaterally stop offering income letters.  For the rest of the countries in the world, the income method still works as before.

[farangx]

4 hours ago, Spidey said:

I am already with Bangkok bank. I withdraw my money from my CC, in the bank and deposit it in my account immediately. No fees and has the flexibility to put whatever money I need in my account, when I want it, ie immediately. Works for me.

I like to know how this works out for you in your next extension.

 

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, farangx said:

I like to know how this works out for you in your next extension.

 

It won't.

[farangx]

4 hours ago, Wanderlust said:

No, that is the whole point - if they are actually on a pension and they are close to that figure then a sudden downturn as their funds are due to arrive could scupper them completely.

then the income becomes an income combo.

 

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, farangx said:

then the income becomes an income combo.

 

You have to seed your account for 3 months beforehand, so no it doesn't.

[farangx]

21 minutes ago, Spidey said:

You have to seed your account for 3 months beforehand, so no it doesn't.

I am thinking 50K ....

[Maestro]

8 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Ok this all makes sense to me and it's just as I expected. I've got one query though.

 

Does anyone understand what they mean by 'an affidavit of status'? It's mentioned toward the bottom of para 5.

 

I can understand the sensible precaution of preparing a 'power of attorney' in case of infirmity of the applicant for whatever reason. Do you think that this is what they mean? 

 

In the translation of the Immigration Bureau Memorandum No. 0029.173/W 4950 dated 26 December 2018 the text reads as follows:

Quote

The alien spouse or father, mother of the Thai national must prepare an affidavit of status.

 

In the translation of clause 2.18 of the Immigration Bureau Order 138/2557 (2014) dated 7 July 2014 made available on the website of the Immigration Bureau the text reads as follows:

Quote

An affidavit of the Thai national confirming their marital status or parental status with the alien must also be submitted.

 

In the translation of clause 2.18 of the Immigration Bureau Order 138/2557 (2014) dated 7 July 2014 made by Siam Translations for Thaivisa the text reads as follows:

Quote

An affidavit must also be submitted confirming the alien’s marital or parental status with a Thai national.

 

The original Thai text of the Immigration Bureau Order 138-2557 (2014) is not available in a text format and therefore I cannot copy and paste the apposite Thai text for comparison.

[Maestro]

7 hours ago, Such a Hairy Guy said:

I went to see an immigration lawyer in Bangkok today and did not get a chance to read every single post above. But he did state it is either 800K in a bank account of 65K in pension only income (investment income do do not count).

When you consulted this immigration lawyer, did he have a copy of the original Thai version of the Immigration Bureau Memorandum No. 0029.173/W 4950 dated 26 December 2018 in front of him?

[Maestro]

8 hours ago, JamesH said:

I emailed Kasikorn Bank earlier regarding obtaining a Credit Advice for my last TransferWise transaction and the reply I received was "If you would like to get a Credit Advice for this transaction, please kindly contact the transferring bank" Who supplies them, the transferring bank or the receiving bank?

The receiving bank, ie your bank in Thailand, must give you the Credit Advice, by some banks called Credit Receipt. However, if TransferWise receives your funds from abroad into their own account with a Thai bank and from there remits it to your Thai bank account, the Credit Advice your bank gives you will obviously show an incoming remittance from a Thai bank.

 

Below is an example of a Credit Advice issued by Siam Commercial Bank:

[scubascuba3]

Looks like the 800k in the bank method for me. I just wish that some people would stop saying that the new rules are no different, or even better than the old. They're not. The British Embassy has dumped on it's citizens.

I usually withdraw using my Clarity card also, Transferwise isn't too far off that rate, but yes British Embassy useless turds

[Maestro]

5 hours ago, pontious said:

Why would the bank know anything about TI policy just announced .

Ideally, your bank would call immigration and ask them for a copy of the Immigration Bureau Memorandum No. 0029.173/W 4950 dated 26 December 2018.

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

Looks like the 800k in the bank method for me. I just wish that some people would stop saying that the new rules are no different, or even better than the old. They're not. The British Embassy has dumped on it's citizens.

I usually withdraw using my Clarity card also, Transferwise isn't too far off that rate, but yes British Embassy useless turds

I like to wake up in the morning and think, "today I'm going to buy X for 25k baht". If I don't have the full amount in my Thai bank, it only takes me minutes to put the money in my account. I have lost that convenience if I use TransferWise.

[Spidey]

Just now, Maestro said:

Ideally, your bank would call immigration and ask them for a copy of the Immigration Bureau Memorandum No. 0029.173/W 4950 dated 26 December 2018.

In a situation like that, the branch would refer the matter to head office. I have an issue with Bangkok bank at the moment, the issue has been referred to head office twice and I still don't have a result.

 

An extremely minor issue, I've been trying to pay my water bill by direct debit for 4 months now!

 

I see the biggest problem with the change coming from the banks, not Thai Immigration. What information they will need to generate the letter.

[Elkski]

I'm sure this has been answered before but i will re ask it. 

If a person is not on a specific pension but will be combining SS with rental income and maybe some investment selling how does this all figure in in income per month... What if its better timing to do 1-4 investment withdrawals rather than 12? 

 

What is to prevent a person from transferring some of these 65k funds back to home country bank account? Maybe use this money in later years as an income stream?   I guess what I am saying what if a person lives on less than 65k and wants to invest this extra somewhere outside of Thailand. 

[flexomike]

10 hours ago, bangsaenguy said:

I am sure this has been asked and answered. Will SSA deposit to a foreign bank? If not, does one set up a monthly transfer to a Thai bank from a US bank?

Social Security can be set up with Bangkok Bank only at this time

[JLCrab]

8 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Actually, I can seem them still asking for "extra information" - like at Chang Mai now for those with embassy-letters - only now they will ask for "pension" statements when they want more agent-money (knowing many of us have non-pension income)

Did it really take 13 pages on this topic before you got in your agent-centric view of the universe?

 

They might also ask for a pension statement with a legitimate monthly income to make sure there is not a merry-go-round deposit-transfer-redeposit in the works.

Edited January 7, 2019 by JLCrab

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

The receiving bank, ie your bank in Thailand, must give you the Credit Advice, by some banks called Credit Receipt. However, if TransferWise receives your funds from abroad into their own account with a Thai bank and from there remits it to your Thai bank account, the Credit Advice your bank gives you will obviously show an incoming remittance from a Thai bank.

 

Below is an example of a Credit Advice issued by Siam Commercial Bank:

In that case, then, I wonder whether the answer to the coding issues on TransferWise transfers which have been raised a number of times on this and previous threads might be to provide evidence to your Thai bank to enable them to provide the necessary certificate required by Immigration, in the form of (1) your home country bank account statement recording the debit to TransferWise, plus (2) the TransferWise confirmation statement indicating how this debit subsequently morphs into a 40/65k+ credit to your Thai bank account. This should surely be sufficient to demonstrate to your Thai bank's satisfaction for the purposes of issuing their certificate the trail that exists between your home country bank account and your Thai bank account in the case of a particular TransferWise transfer.

[pontious]

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

It's not specified. But it's safe to assume - as any cash in the bank used for a retirement extension must be in the sole name of the applicant - it will be the same for income.

Thanks. That would be most inconvenient. I think I will park 800,000 in a sole  account  and show our joint account with a ziillion transactions showing living expenses.

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

Ideally, your bank would call immigration and ask them for a copy of the Immigration Bureau Memorandum No. 0029.173/W 4950 dated 26 December 2018.

Alternatively, do you know how we can lay our hands on a copy of the original Thai version of this particular Memorandum, which we might then be able to wave under their noses instead?

[ocddave]

46 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Alternatively, do you know how we can lay our hands on a copy of the original Thai version of this particular Memorandum, which we might then be able to wave under their noses instead?

You do know how most Thai males act when shamed in public, right? Be very careful!

[onera1961]

Embassy letter is the best method but the embassies of four countries threw their citizens under the bus. Thai immigration did its best to accommodate them. They could have simply ignored them and pushed them all to 400/800K method.

It is not a simple method. It will create lots of confusion, paper works, misinterpretation of requirements between IOs, and more works for applicants if trying to do it themselves. This will result in more people seeking the help of agents to smooth out the process, streamline documents required, help in obtaining required documents from banks etc. My guess is more agents with low level contacts with immigration officers and know-how of exact requirements (+ tea money) will spring up and lead to more competition amongst agents and reduction in prices.

Was it done deliberately by immigration? I don't know but I doubt very much. If they wanted a deliberate approach, they could have simply ignored the alternative option of showing monthly transfer to your Thai bank and shoved everybody en masse to agents for "money in the bank" method. 

I am on an O-A visa now and I bring 15K every week (even when I am not in Thailand). For me it will be easy to give my bank book and max 5K (+2K for the official fee) to an agent to get it done without worrying about all the paper works I need, missed paper works, IO's demand for more paper works, TM30, TM28, etc. I could get another O-A visa from USA but that will require me to time my stay in the USA, doctor's appointment and fees, etc. It is not as flexible as I giving 5K to an agent and have a permission for in/out anytime without questions and stay in Thailand for one year. Now I need to find an agent who can do it for max 5K (+2K official fee). I hope I can find one. 

Edited January 8, 2019 by onera1961

[JLCrab]

18 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

It is not a simple method.

It certainly can be if you set things up in accord. But whether or not, it is the method.

[Colabamumbai]

If using the 65,000 Baht monthly going into a Thai bank, does the money have to remain there, or can it be used after deposited?

 

This is suppose to start in 2020 have they changed the rules.?

Edited January 8, 2019 by Colabamumbai
wrong year