To what extent can a prenup protect me?

[Anastasios]

Hello everyone. I know I'm better off sending an email to Thai attorneys but would like to hear what people here have to say about this.

 

My situation is that I have a Thai girlfriend but haven't moved to Thailand yet. I truly love her and she is my best friend. She is a specialized nurse and makes a good living, I never give her money or buy pricey gifts (except for some gym equipment at home since I want her to look great forever, I put her on a supplement regime that I buy for her for her health, and some creams for her skin she can't buy in Thailand since she's acne prone) nor do we go out on expensive dinners. She's just right for me since I don't enjoy luxurious stuff or spending too much, I'd rather retire early and live in Thailand. I'd like to be with her forever, legal marriage or not. But mine and her finances is something I'd like to keep separate. If we buy some house jointly and she owns 51% then so be it, she has the upper hand on that one, but everything under my name and everything under her name is something I wouldn't want a court deciding who it belongs to...

 

I am wondering to what extent can a prenuptial agreement protect assets in my name. Is it possible to make a complete and thorough prenup that states that all assets acquired before marriage will never, under any circumstance be taken from me? Can the prenup protect, in the same way, assets that I earn (strictly in my name) after we have married? So in essence an agreement that any property I have be it apartment, car, bank account, jewelery etc that I buy with my money after we married is solely mine and vice versa.

 

Of course not getting a legal marriage at all would be the easy solution but that makes it much more difficult visa wise...

 

In short, I don't like mixing love with money ????

[NCC1701A]

here we go again. almost the same writing style.

 

 

[NCC1701A]

18 minutes ago, Anastasios said:

I am wondering to what extent can a prenuptial agreement protect assets in my name.

what is your before marriage is yours. to be sure, make a list, have your attorney make your Thai girl sign it. (if you dare)

 

 

 

[NCC1701A]

33 minutes ago, Anastasios said:

So in essence an agreement that any property I have be it apartment, car, bank account, jewelery etc that I buy with my money after we married is solely mine and vice versa.

are you an American? what state do you live in? no prenup will protect you from a good attorney.

 

why even let your wife know what you own?

 

why get married?

[swissie]

OP: In Thailand love is mixed with money!

Presenting such a pre-nup, GF is likely to walk. If not, you may have found a diamond among the rough.

[Anastasios]

53 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

here we go again. almost the same writing style.

 

 

I'm sorry it came off that way, I don't know what writing style trolls have lol.

51 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

what is your before marriage is yours. to be sure, make a list, have your attorney make your Thai girl sign it. (if you dare)

 

 

 

 

36 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

are you an American? what state do you live in? no prenup will protect you from a good attorney.

 

why even let your wife know what you own?

 

why get married?

I'm from Europe (Sweden). I'd rather avoid both declaring assets and getting married, but since I want to live in Thailand and might get a child with her, it would make life easier in regards to getting a visa and should things go bad I might have better chances of meeting my child (I guess). I just want to learn about the laws before making any decision. I'm not making the decision until I know and have verified things with a legal professional of course. 

[Anastasios]

10 minutes ago, swissie said:

OP: In Thailand love is mixed with money!

Presenting such a pre-nup, GF is likely to walk. If not, you may have found a diamond among the rough.

That would be excellent if she walked, of course I'd need antidepressants for a while but it would save my life if it ended there. I already asked last year, she said yes without hesitation. I already mentioned she is a nurse and has done further specialization and can more than support herself, I wouldn't be with her if she ever asked for money. My question is can a prenup actually save me or is it a useless piece of paper in Thailand? Can it also save my future wealth gains, done post marriage?

[jinners]

On 1/8/2019 at 11:26 PM, swissie said:

OP: In Thailand love is mixed with money!

Presenting such a pre-nup, GF is likely to walk. If not, you may have found a diamond among the rough.

I did and she didn't

[guest879]

Thailand is a dream country for men. just don't get legally married. it is really that simple. so many foreigners get conned into marriage.  just do a temple marriage if necessary and get lots of photos.  don't buy a house. they take years to sell. took me 5 years to sell my 2 houses, and even then I only just got my money back not including inflation.  the only exception would maybe buying a house in your kids name if you have kids. that's the only way I would own a house in Thailand again. I will support my kids mum for the rest of her life but no way I am going to risk her destroying me financially. 

[BritManToo]

On 1/8/2019 at 11:42 PM, Anastasios said:

can a prenup actually save me or is it a useless piece of paper in Thailand?

It's a useless piece of paper because the house and land will be 100% in her name.

What you don't bring into Thailand, she can't get on Thai divorce.

 

Take her back to your home country and the game changes.

Edited January 14, 2019 by BritManToo

[murraynz]

On 1/9/2019 at 2:39 AM, NCC1701A said:

here we go again. almost the same writing style.

 

 

its NOT 'almost the same' writing style....most of the posters on thai visa are too blind or stupid to even think about pre-nup agreements..they just blindly give money to buy houses for thai girls family---then they start crying when the family has used all their money, and they have  NO  security over what they have purchased..it beggars believe why anybody over 60yrs old can be so stupid ....

 

how effective a pre-nup agreement would be in thailand ???   a bit risky, i think...

[JulesMad]

Please list advantages of marriage, in any country and especially in Thailand. I have not heard even one advantage over the years...

[murraynz]

agreed.. why get married ???? it achieves nothing.....you can still live with the lady...

only buy in thailand ,what you can own 100% ie. condo...

leave any remaining assets in home country...

its not rocket science, just common sense... surely.

if farang wants to leave an inheritance to his younger thai partner-- after his death, to look after her..

that can be done simply, with a thai will....

i also get 'stary-eyed' over thai ladies, but i dont ever forget what i have worked so hard for, over the previuos 45yrs, to give me a great retirement for my final 30yrs....

[geoffbezoz]

Another load of tripe by someone who does not trust the person he professes to love !!  Don't get married as clearly your state of mind prohibits any long term loving and trusting relationship IMHO

[monkeycu]

First be sure your girl is a girl  ???? then just marry her 

She no doubt earns more than you do  

[Toscano]

 

" So in essence an agreement that any property I have be it apartment, car, bank account, jewelery etc that I buy with my money after we married is solely mine and vice versa. "

 

You are a real mean stick !!! What you have before marriage is YOURS , and best to keep your capital in your own country .

If you are over 50yrs have a retirement visa , then you don't have to have an Amphur official marriage ; either don't marry or if pressed have a simple Thai marriage that is not binding , no strings attached and no need for a divorce . Lease or rent a house or apartment , you have to have your own bank account , don't fill it with more money than immediately necessary , on your death remaining money would pass to your wife/partner/girlfriend .  Likely you would give her money every month into her bank account . Often the car is in the wife's name unless you buy it outright . Jewelry you buy her is hers .  Gold jewelry is not seen as jewelry , but as potential money to be pawned or sold .

[4MyEgo]

Thailand is a place full of corruption, know that and you are ahead already, I say this because of stories I have read and heard from farangs with their experiences.

 

As for Thai law, well, I suppose the less you have here in assets, the less you can lose. I have seen guys build houses, been in love with their wives, and thinking all alone the guy in the background was the brother, only to find out later, it was the boyfriend, tragic really, but a reality here for a fair few guys.

 

I had a village ceremony which we registered at the local Amphur (government office) years later and we had a wedding back in Sydney, she didn't hesitate to sign a prenuptial agreement and yes they still are legal in the land down under, others will tell you differently, although they can and have always been able to be challenged, so if you do it right from the start, you shouldn't have any issues. I know of idiots who have had their wives sign them after they were married in their solicitors office, (same solicitor) which in both cases is null and void and illegal, but they have bluffed the girls so far...lol, but watch out for the bite down the track if their marriages falter, which they will, because I know these girls have had enough, but not my business. 

 

My advice was sought from a family law specialist and the agreement was made, and she was referred to an independent solicitor to go over and have her sign it, but not before trying to sway her for an hour not to and to ask for more, however a piece of land in the village that we now live on cost $4,000AUS back in 2007 and a life insurance policy for $100,000 which I still maintain to date, and that is exactly what the agreement had in it and she signed it in his presence. 

 

I don't believe they exist in Thailand, although I have been told it's usually a 50/50 split in Thailand (excluding land) and you can say you had what you had before you entered the relationship and things stay that way, but best consult a Thai lawyer.

 

Our finances have always remained separate, although I have always supported her in our 12 years of marriage, as she has also taken care of me domestically and the kids. The only thing I have done is invested 10% of my worth and built a house on the land and purchased a new car in her name, now 3 years old, suffice to say, I am not a cheap or bitter Charlie, she is and always has been a top chick in my eyes and deserves the lot if we ever split up which isn't going to happen until either one of us passes, hopefully me 1st because I couldn't handle raising the kids on my own....lol

 

You sound like you have your head screwed on right, just keep going the way your going, as you say, NEVER mix love with money, add to that the backup, "plan B" where you can just up and go and still have 90% of your funds back in your home country as I do, it also has some good tax advantages for me whereas I pay no tax for investing in the stock market, you may have similar laws that you might want to look into.

 

As far as visa's go, if you don't want to get the marriage visa, you might want to look at the retirement visa, both are not really a visa, although they are referred to as such and can be extended annually, all you have to do is have either 400,000 or 800,000 baht in the bank 3 months before it's due for renewal, the amount depends on the extension, and then hand them over the paperwork they want when you apply for it, that and report every 90 days which you can do one line.

 

Best of luck

Edited January 14, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[maprao]

Zero protection in Thailand....next

[Laorex]

Wise man many years ago said, don't do anything in a foreign country you can't afford to walk away from.

[sometimewoodworker]

On 1/8/2019 at 10:22 PM, Anastasios said:

I am wondering to what extent can a prenuptial agreement protect assets in my name. Is it possible to make a complete and thorough prenup that states that all assets acquired before marriage will never, under any circumstance be taken from me? Can the prenup protect, in the same way, assets that I earn (strictly in my name) after we have married? So in essence an

Completely unnecessary related to assets prior to marriage as Thai law protects you. You just (we had to) list them on the marriage documents. Your assets remain yours, hers remain hers.

 

I don't know about after marriage protection, if any agreement will override the standard court 50/50 split of the assets (or value of assets) gained after marriage.

 

You will never be the owner of land as that will have to be 100% owned by your wife, though if bought after marriage you get 50% of the value in a divorce, as with any other asset.

 

That is the law, off course enforcement may not be straight forward if your spouse has no money when you divorce. There are also various tricks to reduce the land value.

 

I believe the after marriage split is related to the fact that you both contribute so should both benefit, whoever earns the money they couldn't without the other to help.

 

 

So you may find that a pre-nup is unnecessary possibly worthless

Edited January 15, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[KKr]

23 hours ago, jinners said:

I did and she didn't

plus one.
(included limitations on mortgaging and selling the land and/or house, and a Usufruct.)

[KKr]

20 hours ago, JulesMad said:

Please list advantages of marriage, in any country and especially in Thailand. I have not heard even one advantage over the years...

someone is mending my socks ????

[Janner1]

For marriage read Hang mans noose

 

For pre nup read Hang mans noose.

 

neither one will stop you breaking your neck once you start to fall.

 

Take the cheap route buddy, village marriage ( no papers )

pay the old croak with an un signed cheque so she will look good in the village but can not cash it.

 

Visa? Marriage visa gives you only one advantage that I can see 500,000 baht in the bank instead of 800,000 that’s a safer bet less to lose.

 

Kids? They will get you a visa BUT do you need the hassle of cloths, food, schools, university, motorbikes etc etc.

Give careful consideration because the cheap Charlie route may just suit you better.

 

You don’t have to marry her to get her to stay with you, if she looooves you she will mop your brow right up until the day she does’nt anymore, and it will not cost you so much on the exit.

 

 So there you have it probably the most cynical, and pessimistic view you will hear in a long time, but good luck anyway

555

[JulesMad]

4 hours ago, KKr said:

someone is mending my socks ????

555 you still wearing socks?!? ????

[smotherb]

On 1/14/2019 at 2:25 PM, jinners said:

I did and she didn't

Yes, and there are many more like you. These posters who label all Thai women as gold diggers and negotiable ladies of chance encounter must have low acceptance criteria or are just plain foolish.

[KKr]

14 hours ago, JulesMad said:

555 you still wearing socks?!? ????

hand knitted goats wool, of course. 
With my sandals, my green cargo shorts and dry-fit dress T-shirt.????

[Anastasios]

On 1/14/2019 at 9:41 AM, guest879 said:

Thailand is a dream country for men. just don't get legally married. it is really that simple. so many foreigners get conned into marriage.  just do a temple marriage if necessary and get lots of photos.  don't buy a house. they take years to sell. took me 5 years to sell my 2 houses, and even then I only just got my money back not including inflation.  the only exception would maybe buying a house in your kids name if you have kids. that's the only way I would own a house in Thailand again. I will support my kids mum for the rest of her life but no way I am going to risk her destroying me financially. 

A ceremony only seems to be my better choice now. My only issue is if we have a child. I always consider worst case scenarios. I'll have to read up and probably ask a lawyer but the thought that 10 years down the road things change and she leaves with my child is frightening. If marriage helps then I have to go back to the drawboard for protecting myself financially, in case things go bad. Thank you for your input.

On 1/14/2019 at 10:19 AM, BritManToo said:

It's a useless piece of paper because the house and land will be 100% in her name.

What you don't bring into Thailand, she can't get on Thai divorce.

 

Take her back to your home country and the game changes.

Thank you for your input.

On 1/14/2019 at 11:03 AM, murraynz said:

agreed.. why get married ???? it achieves nothing.....you can still live with the lady...

only buy in thailand ,what you can own 100% ie. condo...

leave any remaining assets in home country...

its not rocket science, just common sense... surely.

if farang wants to leave an inheritance to his younger thai partner-- after his death, to look after her..

that can be done simply, with a thai will....

i also get 'stary-eyed' over thai ladies, but i dont ever forget what i have worked so hard for, over the previuos 45yrs, to give me a great retirement for my final 30yrs....

Thank you for your input.

On 1/14/2019 at 11:33 AM, geoffbezoz said:

Another load of tripe by someone who does not trust the person he professes to love !!  Don't get married as clearly your state of mind prohibits any long term loving and trusting relationship IMHO

Trust doesn't have to mean I trust the persons actions over decades. The only times my love for her gets mixed with money is when we go out. She pays sometimes but I can't stomach her paying when we go to western restaurants, sushi et.c. when I make several times what she makes. 

On 1/14/2019 at 12:56 PM, Toscano said:

 

" So in essence an agreement that any property I have be it apartment, car, bank account, jewelery etc that I buy with my money after we married is solely mine and vice versa. "

 

You are a real mean stick !!! What you have before marriage is YOURS , and best to keep your capital in your own country .

If you are over 50yrs have a retirement visa , then you don't have to have an Amphur official marriage ; either don't marry or if pressed have a simple Thai marriage that is not binding , no strings attached and no need for a divorce . Lease or rent a house or apartment , you have to have your own bank account , don't fill it with more money than immediately necessary , on your death remaining money would pass to your wife/partner/girlfriend .  Likely you would give her money every month into her bank account . Often the car is in the wife's name unless you buy it outright . Jewelry you buy her is hers .  Gold jewelry is not seen as jewelry , but as potential money to be pawned or sold .

Thank you for your input. 

On 1/14/2019 at 2:19 PM, 4MyEgo said:

Thailand is a place full of corruption, know that and you are ahead already, I say this because of stories I have read and heard from farangs with their experiences.

 

As for Thai law, well, I suppose the less you have here in assets, the less you can lose. I have seen guys build houses, been in love with their wives, and thinking all alone the guy in the background was the brother, only to find out later, it was the boyfriend, tragic really, but a reality here for a fair few guys.

 

I had a village ceremony which we registered at the local Amphur (government office) years later and we had a wedding back in Sydney, she didn't hesitate to sign a prenuptial agreement and yes they still are legal in the land down under, others will tell you differently, although they can and have always been able to be challenged, so if you do it right from the start, you shouldn't have any issues. I know of idiots who have had their wives sign them after they were married in their solicitors office, (same solicitor) which in both cases is null and void and illegal, but they have bluffed the girls so far...lol, but watch out for the bite down the track if their marriages falter, which they will, because I know these girls have had enough, but not my business. 

 

My advice was sought from a family law specialist and the agreement was made, and she was referred to an independent solicitor to go over and have her sign it, but not before trying to sway her for an hour not to and to ask for more, however a piece of land in the village that we now live on cost $4,000AUS back in 2007 and a life insurance policy for $100,000 which I still maintain to date, and that is exactly what the agreement had in it and she signed it in his presence. 

 

I don't believe they exist in Thailand, although I have been told it's usually a 50/50 split in Thailand (excluding land) and you can say you had what you had before you entered the relationship and things stay that way, but best consult a Thai lawyer.

 

Our finances have always remained separate, although I have always supported her in our 12 years of marriage, as she has also taken care of me domestically and the kids. The only thing I have done is invested 10% of my worth and built a house on the land and purchased a new car in her name, now 3 years old, suffice to say, I am not a cheap or bitter Charlie, she is and always has been a top chick in my eyes and deserves the lot if we ever split up which isn't going to happen until either one of us passes, hopefully me 1st because I couldn't handle raising the kids on my own....lol

 

You sound like you have your head screwed on right, just keep going the way your going, as you say, NEVER mix love with money, add to that the backup, "plan B" where you can just up and go and still have 90% of your funds back in your home country as I do, it also has some good tax advantages for me whereas I pay no tax for investing in the stock market, you may have similar laws that you might want to look into.

 

As far as visa's go, if you don't want to get the marriage visa, you might want to look at the retirement visa, both are not really a visa, although they are referred to as such and can be extended annually, all you have to do is have either 400,000 or 800,000 baht in the bank 3 months before it's due for renewal, the amount depends on the extension, and then hand them over the paperwork they want when you apply for it, that and report every 90 days which you can do one line.

 

Best of luck

Thank you for your input, even more for me to learn. Yes I do have that advantage and I have my money in an ISK (Investeringssparkonto) and pay minimal tax. No plans to move money to Thailand.

On 1/15/2019 at 5:35 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

Completely unnecessary related to assets prior to marriage as Thai law protects you. You just (we had to) list them on the marriage documents. Your assets remain yours, hers remain hers.

 

I don't know about after marriage protection, if any agreement will override the standard court 50/50 split of the assets (or value of assets) gained after marriage.

 

You will never be the owner of land as that will have to be 100% owned by your wife, though if bought after marriage you get 50% of the value in a divorce, as with any other asset.

 

That is the law, off course enforcement may not be straight forward if your spouse has no money when you divorce. There are also various tricks to reduce the land value.

 

I believe the after marriage split is related to the fact that you both contribute so should both benefit, whoever earns the money they couldn't without the other to help.

 

 

So you may find that a pre-nup is unnecessary possibly worthless

Thank you for your input.

On 1/15/2019 at 10:51 AM, Janner1 said:

For marriage read Hang mans noose

 

For pre nup read Hang mans noose.

 

neither one will stop you breaking your neck once you start to fall.

 

Take the cheap route buddy, village marriage ( no papers )

pay the old croak with an un signed cheque so she will look good in the village but can not cash it.

 

Visa? Marriage visa gives you only one advantage that I can see 500,000 baht in the bank instead of 800,000 that’s a safer bet less to lose.

 

Kids? They will get you a visa BUT do you need the hassle of cloths, food, schools, university, motorbikes etc etc.

Give careful consideration because the cheap Charlie route may just suit you better.

 

You don’t have to marry her to get her to stay with you, if she looooves you she will mop your brow right up until the day she does’nt anymore, and it will not cost you so much on the exit.

 

 So there you have it probably the most cynical, and pessimistic view you will hear in a long time, but good luck anyway

555

I always consider cynical and pessimistic views regarding these things ???? Thank you for your input. Kids are a hassle but it is a goal of mine and no I am not retired, I am 30.

 

So it seems the easiest protection is leave the money where it is, lol I never even considered moving it out let alone Thailand. The idea of having a house/land in the childs name is appealing but I don't know if I even want a house. I like Bangkok and I like the BTS. There are no houses near BTS stations ????

 

I appreciate all the input. 

[4MyEgo]

3 hours ago, Anastasios said:

Kids are a hassle but it is a goal of mine and no I am not retired, I am 30.

Hassle ? Your not alive until you have kids, for those that have never had them, I feel sad for them, the joy the kids give me watching them grow is nothing short of feeling alive, sure they got on your nerves when they fight or back chat (occasionally), but with discipling and constant input from both parents about what is right, what is wrong, and what is acceptable in this "after hours school" sticks in their heads, because they know both schools are for their future good. Without kids life would be empty IMO, although we do enjoy spending those 8 hours together (peace & quiet) when all 4 are at school, ok so we are selfish at times ???? If your TVF name is what I think it is (Greek) Elinus, it's in the blood, you will enjoy your kids as much as you enjoyed being raised as an Elina.

 

3 hours ago, Anastasios said:

So it seems the easiest protection is leave the money where it is, lol I never even considered moving it out let alone Thailand.

Absolutely 100% correct

 

3 hours ago, Anastasios said:

I like Bangkok and I like the BTS. There are no houses near BTS stations ????

I take it from your age 30 you may still want to or have to work, but Bangkok, from what I have heard of late the smog/pollution is not good/safe and with you thinking to have a kid/s, something to perhaps reconsider. If you don't need to work, maybe a coastal area, beach walks etc etc, I am in a village in rural Thailand, I like the fact that the kids have great grandparents/grandparents, uncles/aunties, cousins etc etc so they get the family environment that we did as kids, although later down the track when the boys hit 18 and go to wherever they want to to work, we will probably move to the coast as we both like the beaches, and the house in the village can become our holiday house for when we return during school holidays when the girls have their break.

 

Best of luck anyways, oh and one other important thing, if a woman ever leaves a man and takes (their) child, believe you me when I say this, you cannot control the things that you cannot control, so let go and down the track when the child reaches maturity/adulthood, then reach out, sure you would have missed out a lot, but no point in being angry/frustrated, allow the sadness to pass, although be financial in supporting the child, conditionally that is, eg pay school fees and uniforms direct, money for food can be minimal, doesn't take much to work out how much it costs for a child to eat per month, add clothing, and of course private health insurance which you would pay direct.

 

Best of luck