Anti Foreigner Feeling By Thailand

[solo siam]

Sorry but your posts just don't seem to ring very true, seriously these guys wont listen to diplomats from the worlds most powerful countries and yet you write a poem and its all go because you point out some awkward points about the FBA?

Funny! Who said they where listening or being convinced. For all I know it could be the firing squad. All I have done is post something that happened at work today and what will happen tomorrow. I didn't ask them to come and see me, nor did I ask them to arrange a meeting for the morning. Personally, I would prefer not to discuss it further as it may put me in an awkward position as I have made certain points of view quite clear in the paper (not poem). But hey, thanks for your insights though. Would you now like to tell me where I work next and what my bosses name is and how about telling me the phone number of my secretary or what the next lottery number will be. If you get any of the above right then do come and sit with me in the meeting tomorrow and you can hold my hand while we wait. I may even buy you an ice cream afterwards.

Dunno but from your previous posts I guessed you work at a University, or in Education - Not sure how this ties into "influential people" exactly.

Maybe the "influential people" wants to listen to a true blue foreigner, who has roots in thailand, and get some views as to what the foreigners here in thailand feels about the current political situation. Would that be a likely scenario?

Nah, Not really

[unforgiven]

I first went to Thailand in 1999,i thought it was a great place on my first couple of visits but i have noticed that the various powers that be in Thailand have made it more and more difficult for foreigners to visit,open business or even reside in the country.Even silly things like the overstay fine being continually hiked up through the years,the different tax brackets for foreigners,if a Thai and a foreigner have a fight the police will always side with the Thai,in fact just about every time a policeman in Thailand pulls a foreigner on a motorbike it costs him money and now this thing about foreigners only being allowed 90 days per year in Thailand.I could go on for ages,everyone that has spent any decent length of time in Thailand will know what i am talking about.I have in the past couple of years being going to Cambodia and frequently Malaysia,both myself my mates and our Thai girlfriends see the difference.These other countries are more friendly and geared up to welcome tourists not to discourage and rip them off as my beloved Thailand has become.I wonder what the powers that be in Thailand would do if all the foreigners stayed away a year or two,i think all these stupid things like foreigners only being allowed 90 days maximum in one year,and other stupid rules like that would be reversed.Have they never heard of the man that killed the golden goose.If the tourists stopped coming it would be disastrous for the economy my question is what would the powers that be in Thailand do then?

forget thailand,India ,cambodia...etc are better..........were only walking atm's for those animals

[qwertz]

I first went to Thailand in 1999,i thought it was a great place on my first couple of visits but i have noticed that the various powers that be in Thailand have made it more and more difficult for foreigners to visit,open business or even reside in the country.Even silly things like the overstay fine being continually hiked up through the years,the different tax brackets for foreigners,if a Thai and a foreigner have a fight the police will always side with the Thai,in fact just about every time a policeman in Thailand pulls a foreigner on a motorbike it costs him money and now this thing about foreigners only being allowed 90 days per year in Thailand.I could go on for ages,everyone that has spent any decent length of time in Thailand will know what i am talking about.I have in the past couple of years being going to Cambodia and frequently Malaysia,both myself my mates and our Thai girlfriends see the difference.These other countries are more friendly and geared up to welcome tourists not to discourage and rip them off as my beloved Thailand has become.I wonder what the powers that be in Thailand would do if all the foreigners stayed away a year or two,i think all these stupid things like foreigners only being allowed 90 days maximum in one year,and other stupid rules like that would be reversed.Have they never heard of the man that killed the golden goose.If the tourists stopped coming it would be disastrous for the economy my question is what would the powers that be in Thailand do then?

forget thailand,India ,cambodia...etc are better..........were only walking atm's for those animals

Am I an exception? I've lost count of my trips to LOS, plus 6 years living there, having once been married there and having toured the land from top to tip. I can't honestly cite one incident of bad treatment by Thais in all my times there. I'm not a "hansum man" so we can leave out optical appeal. Because of this latter disadvantage I learned very young that being polite and respectful to people is understood and appreciated world wide and transcends many cultural and liguistic barriers. And the nice part is that they respond in kind. I'm not wordly wise enough to offer you any useful advice other than my own recipe for getting along with Thais. I can only say what I would do in your place - take a good long look at myself and analyse what I've been doing wrong. Hope this helps, I mean it sincerely.

P.S. Does your board name perhaps refer to some past misdemeanour?

Edited February 22, 2007 by qwertz

[Beaming]

Every country has rules. Just follow them.....

Whereever you go just see them the way they are, should not see them the way you want them to be......

Those rules is nothing when you see how western embassies give very hard time to Thais..

[PaulUSA302]

I think that Thailand wants guests that act like guests. When you have guests in your home you do not allow them to tell you how to run your home and no country wants their guests to feel so comfortable that they feel that they have power over the government or people who are their hosts.

They are simply making rules to benefit the Thai people in the long run.... As they see it.

[luckyluke]

forget thailand,India ,cambodia...etc are better..........were only walking atm's for those animals

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Animals ??!!

with due respect how do you qualify yourself?

[ThaiGoon]

It is absolutely amazing to me that in all of the recent posts where someone points out some discontent with the way that things are going in Thailand. There is a group of people that begin to call them malcontents, recalcitrant, destitute, undesirables, etc. I posted a thread recently and was very surprised at the overwhelming response, clearly the lines are being drawn in the sand. This even furthers my resolve to leave that so many of my fellow Farangs will be glad to see me go. I have made a personal decision for my family and myself to leave. Others have chosen to stay, fine.

I have to believe that everyone has been able to see the changes that have occurred in the last few years concerning Visas, property ownership, business, exchange rates and the current political climate. Why has this become such an emotional issue?

LL

Really? I thought all those just happend in about a year or so?

[Maizefarmer]

Having read this post I am now trying to work out if the bad/negative experiances are "representative" in any statistical sense, or "representative" in any person profile/type sense.

Actualy, thats not quite true i.e. I made my mind up on the issue many years ago - and it boils down to 2 points, which I have expressed before elsewhere on the forum, but will repeat here again:

Point 1

I do not believe for one minute the bad/negative experiances are representative in any significant statitical sense at all. That is not to say bad experiances with Thai's do not not occur, or that they are always right - no, indeed they do occur, but one needs to look at ones self and how one responds in such situations before been judgemental about why, or how it happened.

Firstly, the majority of incidents can and are avoidable, if the communication problem is sorted out. Breakdown in communication is very much a part of the problem - and foreigners are no less guilty in these cases than are Thai's. For anyone to assume the other person (i.e. the Thai) is stupid for not understanding something that led to a dispute, is just pure arrogance. One should take a look at there own ability to communicate before thinking the "stupid Thai" is to blame. Says something about one's attitude right from the start (no wonder they have a negative perception - tongue in cheek).

Point 2

For every one bad experiance reported, a 1000 plus good experiances are reported - statisticaly bad experiances reported are pretty much inline proportionaly with Westerners experiances elswhere in Asia. Those of you who have worked/lived in the Phillipines will know that petty police corruption is as prevalint there as it is in Thailand, if not more so. The reason why it doesn't become the "problem" it does in Thailand is because communication is generally easier in the Phillipines - not because the the Flip cop's are any more clever/stupid, or any less or more arrogant than their Thai counterparts (communication again - which influences perception and how one relates to a "problem").

I don't buy the idea that there is anti-foreigner feeling in Thailand in the sense that some of the contributers feel it is.

Where I will accept there is some anti-foreigner feeling, is at a level that the average tourist is not likely to experiance it in their communication or dealing with Thai's on a day to day level. It's at a level beyond that for lack of a better description. It's in an undercurrent of nationalism that many Thai's feel. There is a section of Thai society that is feircely patriotic and nationalistic, who are anti-any-outsider (Western or Asian) who they feel threatens their feeling of "I am Thai and this is Thailand". A somewhat hard concept to convey and that's just my point, the average visitor won't experiance it - in much the same way as some Western countries have political parties who are anti foreigner involvement/participation/intergration in their respective countries, but who none-the-less will treat an Asian in their country on a day to day with much the same courtesy they would extend any other Westerner. In that sense, yes - there is an anti-foreigner feeling in Thailand.

But it is seldom manifested in the examples cited in this thread so far.

I feel the anti-foreinger feelings some have, if stripped down to bare fact incident by incident, often stem from some or other negative incident/experiance that was avoidable were not for poor communication and lack of tolerance something in my experiance Thai's are no less more guilty of than we foreigners.

And all the above aside - we take ourselves where ever we go in the world (i.e. more often than not, it's what we make of a situation that determines the outcome - for good or bad)

Thats my take on the subject.

MF

For what it worth - I have lived here nearly 20 years now, during which time I think I can cite less bad experiances as described by some contirbutors than I have fingers on one hand - and of those bad expriances, I have been able to walk away from all (except one which was my arrogance and fault), not really concerned because it was more representative of that individual Thais' attitude than it was of any Thai attitude in general..

Edited February 23, 2007 by Maizefarmer

[jumnien]

Most of the anti-foreigner feeling comes from foreigners. If I interact politely with Thais I get nothing but pro-foreigner responses. If I read web forums where foreigners post or English language newspapers geared to foreigners I hear a lot of anti-foreigner nonsense. If you feel unloved here try loving someone and see if your feelings change.

[Khonwan]

I’ve been considering my viewpoint on this subject but cannot think of any event during my 13 years in Thailand that could cause me to agree. No – I have never experienced an anti-foreigner attitude from Thais. Quite the opposite in fact. I find local government people, education directors, senior policemen, vets, business people, etc. have always gone way, way out of their way to visit me at my home (well off the beaten track) for absolutely no other reason than to get to know me and usually share a few beers. This despite the fact that I am not at all wealthy (neither is my Thai family); never seek their attention or favour (before or after their visits); am known (and criticised locally) to be a no-holds-barred straight-talker in company.

Sure, I’ve had run-ins with Thais, been ripped off, been frustrated by bureaucracy, etc. but I’ve never perceived an anti-foreigner attitude.

Respect breeds respect.

[graesta]

Most of the anti-foreigner feeling comes from foreigners. If I interact politely with Thais I get nothing but pro-foreigner responses. If I read web forums where foreigners post or English language newspapers geared to foreigners I hear a lot of anti-foreigner nonsense. If you feel unloved here try loving someone and see if your feelings change.

right on the head. When in Rome.....

[Prakanong]

If the tourists stopped coming it would be disastrous for the economy my question is what would the powers that be in Thailand do then?

If all the tourists prattle on in multiple threads about how much they like other places like you do, then I hope the powers that be do boot them all out.

However, this is never going to happen; for every complainer, there are a number of others who enjoy it just fine.

Sadly.

Just doing a quick edit - I do not see an anti-foreigner feeling in general but I have heard some disparaging remarks - more so since the birth of TRT ;-)

I still enjoy it just fine but have seen changes for the worse over a dozen years!!!

I will continue to visit for the foreseeable future but could not see me living there any time soon - I do not need to go into reasons but I could have had this job I am in now re-located in Bangkok but chose to keep it at regional HQ in Singapore and work here but play in Thailand

Edited February 23, 2007 by Prakanong

[orchis]

How would you know it's an anti foreigner feeling, maybe it's just you personnally?

Edited February 23, 2007 by orchis

[Acquiesce]

How would you know it's an anti foreigner feeling, maybe it's just you personnally?

I agree, also if people are finding things so difficult to live here maybe they are just not cut from the right cloth for life in Thailand or perhaps life over seas in general.

[ThaiGoon]

Just doing a quick edit - I do not see an anti-foreigner feeling in general but I have heard some disparaging remarks - more so since the birth of TRT ;-)

That's probably the least a foreign self-righteous ###### who said Thailand is in a "piss poor state and will never get out of the mire" it's in, deserved.

[Prakanong]

How would you know it's an anti foreigner feeling, maybe it's just you personnally?

I agree, also if people are finding things so difficult to live here maybe they are just not cut from the right cloth for life in Thailand or perhaps life over seas in general.

So true.

There are a number of identified stages of culture shock and some people just never get to that "Acceptance" phase of another country/culture and remain in the "I hate this place and look at all this that is wrong with it" phase.

I was stuck there once but will not name the country abut hope to get to the "Acceptance" phase of the country I am in now.

Currently though I am in the "Honeymoon" phase and can only see positives - I have told pals to remind me of this if i enter the negative phase ;-)))

[steveromagnino]

Sorry but your posts just don't seem to ring very true, seriously these guys wont listen to diplomats from the worlds most powerful countries and yet you write a poem and its all go because you point out some awkward points about the FBA?

Funny! Who said they where listening or being convinced.

Dunno but from your previous posts I guessed you work at a University, or in Education - Not sure how this ties into "influential people" exactly.

I know the previous govt loved to listen to an academic in finance called Dr Philip Braun; taught at Sasin. Around the world, civil servants show a distinct inability to think or reason about anything, and who better to help them than a few academics?

Certain people earn respect and can leverage off certain connections; just because 'people of influence' don't want to listen to a tobacco lobbyist ambassador who talks drivel and lives on Wireless, a looney idiotic left wing liberal appointed by a woman with a man's haircut or a non english/Thai speaking moron (3 ambassadors I can think of straight off) doesn't mean that they ignore everything every foreigner says. In fact, if you ever wanted to learn about anything to do with business, I would have thought the jobsworth ambassadors based in Thailand would be the last place you would want to start; more likely the chambers of commerce, trade assocations and large MNE CEOs would actually know something and be more helpful. Hugely biased in many cases, but no more than the ambassadors who make a living cutting ribbons and talking rubbish to people who want to listen to drivel.

Casundra; would be very interested in hearing what you presented at some time :-)

Seems to be the typical malady for foreigners here; they mind when people won't listen to their poorly thought out own ideas on what is wrong, and get even more upset when someone they perceive to be similar to themselves actually gets to talk to someone important.

I know that I am absolutely furious about this. In fact, I might copy Casundra's paper on the FBA, and start selling it at Patpong.

'dvd mai krab'

'sex show mai'

'ping pong show mai'

'FBA white paper mai krub'

Edited February 23, 2007 by steveromagnino

[sriracha john]

any chance "we" can read it ?

Yes but you'll have to wait until after morning

Casundra; would be very interested in hearing what you presented

Indeed, we all sit waiting breathlessly...

[samran]

A couple of points.

A foreigner pays exactly the same income rates of tax as a Thai.

And if a foreigner is working here and has paid into social security, they are eligible for all the benefits that go with it. There are some suprising ones too. For instance, if you have 7 consecutive months of SS payments made, if you have a child, you are eligible for a 6000 baht 'baby bonus' from the government and a 100 odd baht per month stipend for the child.

Pretty neat actually, and available to Thai and Foreigner alike.

[midas]

being going to Cambodia and frequently Malaysia,both myself my mates and our Thai girlfriends see the difference.These other countries are more friendly and geared up to welcome tourists not to discourage and rip them off as my beloved Thailand has become.

Cambodia not ripping off foreigners - you have to be joking - look at the

Visa fees,departure tax entry to Anghor Wat etc I could make a huge list ...................

[tijnebijn]

This topic writer ,like myself came here in '99.....

I fell so sorry for him that he has got almost evrything wrong,proberly needs more tv info......

All not all that still has poor info,and proberly got it on the street ,mouth to mouth a thousand times and it is a totally different story,pall wake up!!!It is somewhat more complicated in thai ,but still not this worse,thank god not!

[solo siam]

Seems to be the typical malady for foreigners here; they mind when people won't listen to their poorly thought out own ideas on what is wrong, and get even more upset when someone they perceive to be similar to themselves actually gets to talk to someone important.

Don't know if that was aimed at myself, personally I don't think theres anything wrong with Thailand. It like any place has its positives and negatives and each persons experience is going to be different. For myself I have always had respect for and received good service from the police, immigration and labour department - sure sometimes I get bored of signing my name 100 times on a document but the service I have received has always been good.

I have a family here and think its one of the best places in the world to bring up my children, they receive so much attention and have so many people looking out for them. I can afford to send them to private school here, but at the same time some of the government schools are also very good.

If I was pushed to find some negatives I would probably suggest that foreign ownership of land could be relaxed in a some way, say for example limiting each foreigner to 1 rai and perhaps charging tax on the land yearly or having to purchase the right to own from the government, at say 200,000 baht or so, or allowing 90 year leases.

The only time I have had problems in Thailand was mainly in nightlife areas like Patong, but I don't go there often so its no big deal.

[qwertz]

Quote ben@h3.

The only time I have had problems in Thailand was mainly in nightlife areas like Patong, but I don't go there often so its no big deal.

You speak for me, sir.

AND ISN'T IT A SHAME THAT MOST OF THE WORLD USES THESE SMALL, NEGATIVE EXAMPLES TO BASH A WHOLE NATION.

I visited Patpong once many years ago and never went back. I suppose it hasn't improved with age. There are still less downpoints in LOs than in my adopted home.

[sriracha john]

any chance "we" can read it ?

Yes but you'll have to wait until after morning

Casundra; would be very interested in hearing what you presented

Indeed, we all sit waiting breathlessly...

perhaps today?

[kmart]

How would you know it's an anti foreigner feeling, maybe it's just you personnally?

I agree, also if people are finding things so difficult to live here maybe they are just not cut from the right cloth for life in Thailand or perhaps life over seas in general.

So true.

There are a number of identified stages of culture shock and some people just never get to that "Acceptance" phase of another country/culture and remain in the "I hate this place and look at all this that is wrong with it" phase.

I was stuck there once but will not name the country abut hope to get to the "Acceptance" phase of the country I am in now.

Currently though I am in the "Honeymoon" phase and can only see positives - I have told pals to remind me of this if i enter the negative phase ;-)))

Thailand never really changes at all. But the attitudes and opinions of foreign people living here can change a lot.

[cmsally]

I have always found that if you are polite and courteous , you will get the same in return.

Judging by some of the farangs I see in Thailand, if you act as above you will be very much appreciated because you will stand out in contrast to some.

Only last weekend a scene of impeccable farang diplomacy at Chatuchak. With a farang couple not pleased about something in a small restaurant. He kicked a stool into the middle of the street and she then pointed to the person running the stall and shouted "you are so stupid". After that they both stormed off.

There had been no argument or anything as I had been browsing through a stall nearby; so I don't know what their problem was.

What planet do these people come from. This couple were at least 40yrs old, unbelievable!

[suiging]

If LOS was " the same" as back home, wherever " back home" is, you wouldn't want to live here. The constant the Thais are different gets a little trying don't you think ??

[Ulysses G.]

Only last weekend a scene of impeccable farang diplomacy at Chatuchak. With a farang couple not pleased about something in a small restaurant. He kicked a stool into the middle of the street and she then pointed to the person running the stall and shouted "you are so stupid". After that they both stormed off.

I confess.

I think that this kind of behavior is terrible, but every once in a while I get so fed up that I resort to it myself.

Edited February 25, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[sriracha john]

any chance "we" can read it ?

Yes but you'll have to wait until after morning

Casundra; would be very interested in hearing what you presented

Indeed, we all sit waiting breathlessly...

perhaps today?

ok then, today for sure?

[soundman]

any chance "we" can read it ?

Yes but you'll have to wait until after morning

Casundra; would be very interested in hearing what you presented

Indeed, we all sit waiting breathlessly...

perhaps today?

ok then, today for sure?

sneak preview. please....