Brexit bedlam - May's EU divorce deal crushed by 230 votes in parliament

[webfact]

Brexit bedlam - May's EU divorce deal crushed by 230 votes in parliament

By William James, Kylie MacLellan and Elizabeth Piper

 

British Prime Minister Theresa May addresses Parliament ahead of the vote on May's Brexit deal, in London, Britain, January 15, 2019 in this screengrab taken from video. Reuters TV via REUTERS

 

LONDON (Reuters) - British lawmakers defeated Prime Minister Theresa May's Brexit divorce deal by a crushing margin on Tuesday, triggering political chaos that could lead to a disorderly exit from the EU or even to a reversal of the 2016 decision to leave.

 

After parliament voted 432-202 against her deal, the worst defeat in modern British history, opposition Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn promptly called a vote of no confidence in May's government, to be held at 1900 GMT on Wednesday.

 

With the clock ticking down to March 29, the date set in law for Brexit, the United Kingdom is now ensnared in the deepest political crisis in half a century as it grapples with how, or even whether, to exit the European project that it joined in 1973.

 

"It is clear that the House does not support this deal, but tonight's vote tells us nothing about what it does support," May told parliament, moments after the result was announced.

 

"... nothing about how - or even if - it intends to honour the decision the British people took in a referendum parliament decided to hold."

 

More than 100 of May's own Conservative lawmakers - both Brexit backers and supporters of EU membership - joined forces to vote down the deal. In doing so, they smashed the previous record defeat for a government, a 166-vote margin, set in 1924.

 

The humiliating loss, the first British parliamentary defeat of a treaty since 1864, appeared to catastrophically undermine May's two-year strategy of forging an amicable divorce with close ties to the EU after the March 29 exit.

 

With May vowing to stand by her deal and Labour trying to trigger a national election, parliament is still effectively deadlocked, with no alternative proposal.

 

May's spokesman told reporters that May's deal could still form the basis of an accord with the EU, but opponents disagreed.

 

"This deal is dead," said Boris Johnson, the Conservative Party's most prominent Brexiteer, who urged May to go back to Brussels to seek better terms.

 

MAY APPEARS SAFE

If there was any consolation for May, it was that her internal adversaries appeared set to fight off the attempt to topple her.

 

The small Northern Irish DUP party, which props up May's minority government and refused to back the deal, said it would still stand behind May in the no-confidence vote. The pro-Brexit Conservatives who were the most vehement opponents of her deal also said they would support her.

 

Labour has said if it fails to trigger an election then it will look at the possibility of supporting another referendum.

 

The EU said the Brexit deal remained the best and only way to ensure an orderly withdrawal. Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz said there would be no further renegotiation.

 

"The risk of a disorderly withdrawal of the United Kingdom has increased with this evening's vote," said EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, adding that it would intensify preparations for a no-deal Brexit.

 

A Labour Party spokesman said it was becoming more likely that Britain would have to ask the EU to postpone the March 29 departure date required by the Article 50 withdrawal notice.

 

But Donald Tusk, the chairman of EU leaders, suggested Britain should now consider reversing Brexit altogether.

 

"If a deal is impossible, and no one wants no deal, then who will finally have the courage to say what the only positive solution is?" he tweeted.

 

Sterling <GBP=> rallied more than a cent against the dollar, on some expectations that the scale of the defeat might force lawmakers to pursue other options. [GBP/]

 

May said she would reach out to opposition parties to forge a way ahead. But Corbyn, who wants Labour to be given the chance to negotiate with Brussels, was dismissive.

 

"After two years of failed negotiations, the House of Commons has delivered its verdict on her Brexit deal, and that verdict is absolutely decisive," he said. "Her governing principle of delay and denial has reached the end of the line."

 

AT A CROSSROADS

Ever since Britain voted by 52-48 percent to leave the EU in a referendum in June 2016, the political class has been debating how to leave the European project forged by France and Germany after the devastation of World War Two.

 

While the country is divided over EU membership, most agree that the world's fifth largest economy is at a crossroads and that its choices over Brexit will shape the prosperity of future generations.

 

"UK assets will continue to be vulnerable to the political volatility and we don't expect this will subside until a concrete conclusion emerges," UBS Wealth Management told clients.

 

Before the vote, May had told pro-Brexit lawmakers that if her plan was rejected, it was more likely that Britain would not leave the EU at all than that it would leave without a deal.

 

Supporters of EU membership cast Brexit as a gigantic mistake that will undermine the West, smash Britain's reputation as a stable destination for investment and slowly weaken London's position as a global capital.

 

Many opponents of Brexit hope May's defeat will ultimately lead to another referendum on EU membership, though Brexit backers say that thwarting the will of the 17.4 million who voted for Brexit could radicalise much of the electorate.

 

"I became prime minister immediately after that referendum," May said. "I believe it is my duty to deliver on their instruction, and I intend to do so."

 

Brexit supporters cast leaving as a way to break free from a Union they see as overly bureaucratic and fast falling behind the leading economic powers of the 21st century, the United States and China.

 

(Additional reporting by Andrew MacAskill, William Schomberg, James Davey, Costas Pitas, Alistair Smout, Andy Bruce, Kate Holton, David Milliken, Steven Addison and Elisabeth O'Leary; Writing by Guy Faulconbridge and Michael Holden; Editing by Kevin Liffey)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-01-16

[TopDeadSenter]

May needs to step down immediately and let a proper leave PM come in and clean up this mess she made. Rees-Mogg, Farage, Robinson, Batten? Somebody that actually believes in Brexit, believes in our country, and has the stones to get on with it. This should have been a very simple process, no excuses for having made a complete dogs dinner of it.

[Samui Bodoh]

What a ClusterF**k.

 

The UK is divided. Political parties are divided. The countries that make up the UK are divided. Parliament is divided. Business is divided. Civil Society is divided. Labour unions are divided. Academia is divided.

 

Yet, when the UK is divided in each and every sector, some say that that you MUST implement the most divisive public policy decision in 50+ years and/or go back and renegotiate with the EU. BTW, just why would the EU decide to re-negotiate? Why does anyone think the EU actually would give better terms? I wouldn't and can't think of any reason to think they would.

 

Never in my wildest thoughts could I have imagined a country would screw itself over so badly.

 

When a country is this divided, the only logical course of action is to keep the status quo and scrap the whole thing; perhaps, try again in 10 or 20 years. Sorry to the Brexit supporters, but your country is waaaaaay too divided to do this.

 

Have the courage to say that this can't be done now. Forcing an uncontrolled hard Brexit down the throats of an unwilling populace will only cause division and discord for generations.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2019 by Samui Bodoh

[bomber]

5 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

May needs to step down immediately and let a proper leave PM come in and clean up this mess she made. Rees-Mogg, Farage, Robinson, Batten? Somebody that actually believes in Brexit, believes in our country, and has the stones to get on with it. This should have been a very simple process, no excuses for having made a complete dogs dinner of it.

65-70% of MPs dont want brexit on both sides,a leave PM would make it even worse as a no deal is suicide,brexit needs stopping,it was a farce from the off and has just got stupider by the day,give me a german master any day,JC is coming and that is even worse

[TopDeadSenter]

6 minutes ago, bomber said:

65-70% of MPs dont want brexit on both sides,a leave PM would make it even worse as a no deal is suicide,brexit needs stopping,it was a farce from the off and has just got stupider by the day,

Whatever your personal views are on Brexit, can we not agree that by abandoning the democratic system to reward the team that had the biggest foot-stamping meltdown is not a good step? This is all way bigger than just Brexit, the future of democracy lies at stake here.

[keemapoot]

13 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Whatever your personal views are on Brexit, can we not agree that by abandoning the democratic system to reward the team that had the biggest foot-stamping meltdown is not a good step? This is all way bigger than just Brexit, the future of democracy lies at stake here.

Sometimes democracy is not all it's cracked up to be. Especially when the result is a crash and burn brexit that hobbles generations of Britons, and results in serious diminution of the country, its economy and status.

Edited January 15, 2019 by keemapoot
sp

[simple1]

13 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Whatever your personal views are on Brexit, can we not agree that by abandoning the democratic system to reward the team that had the biggest foot-stamping meltdown is not a good step? This is all way bigger than just Brexit, the future of democracy lies at stake here.

LOL - Rees-Mogg, Farage, Robinson, Batten are good candidates for the future of UK democracy??? 

[JRG23]

I was in China not so long ago. As mentioned there - and it is true - Brexit is an example of democracy gone bad. As one poster accurately commented... What a cluster f*&!

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

May needs to step down immediately and let a proper leave PM come in and clean up this mess she made. Rees-Mogg, Farage, Robinson, Batten? Somebody that actually believes in Brexit, believes in our country, and has the stones to get on with it. This should have been a very simple process, no excuses for having made a complete dogs dinner of it.

Hard Brexit doesn't have the votes in Parliament.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, keemapoot said:

Sometimes democracy is not all it's cracked up to be. Especially when the result is a crash and burn brexit that hobbles generations of Britons, and results in serious diminution of the country, its economy and status.

Those who oppose democracy usually keep out of sight whatever crackpot alternative they themselves follow.

[SheungWan]

6 minutes ago, JRG23 said:

I was in China not so long ago. As mentioned there - and it is true - Brexit is an example of democracy gone bad. As one poster accurately commented... What a cluster f*&!

China on democracy. Way to go.

[keemapoot]

Those who oppose democracy usually keep out of sight whatever crackpot alternative they themselves follow.

Rigid, static, dogmatic democracy not allowing change for changing circumstances while maintaining democratic institutions, is as unproductive as no democracy.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Whatever your personal views are on Brexit, can we not agree that by abandoning the democratic system to reward the team that had the biggest foot-stamping meltdown is not a good step? This is all way bigger than just Brexit, the future of democracy lies at stake here.

So let’s leave it in the hands of the side that commuted electoral fraud.

[soalbundy]

Brexit means errrm....chaos.

[Chomper Higgot]

To remind everyone.

 

Had not so called ‘Traitors’ and ‘Enemies of the people’ forced the Government to put Brexit before Parliament, this appalling deal would have been signed off by ‘executive order’ without scrutiny by Parliament and this very ‘meaningful vote’.

 

It might be a time for a little introspection for those among us who were not so long ago screaming ‘Traitors’, ‘Enemies of the people’.

 

 

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

To remind everyone.

 

Had not so called ‘Traitors’ and ‘Enemies of the people’ forced the Government to put Brexit before Parliament, this appalling deal would have been signed off by ‘executive order’ without scrutiny by Parliament and this very ‘meaningful vote’.

 

It might be a time for a little introspection for those among us who were not so long ago screaming ‘Traitors’, ‘Enemies of the people’.

 

 

Fat chance of that...

[Antonymous]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Have the courage to say that this can't be done now. Forcing an uncontrolled hard Brexit down the throats of an unwilling populace will only cause division and discord for generations.

 

 

What an extraordinary leap of false logic!

 

Have the courage to say that NOW that the rotten deal presented by a Remainer PM has been voted down at last, parliament should follow the will of the people to leave the EU. Let's organise a controlled Brexit.

 

Here's a Plan:

 

A BETTER DEAL AND A BETTER FUTURE

 

An alternative written ministerial statement under the terms

of EUWA 2018 S13(4) 15 January 2019

 

Exiting the EU: the Government’s policy for EU withdrawal following the vote of the House of Commons on 15 January 2019.

 

http://2mbg6fgb1kl380gtk22pbxgw-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/A-Better-Deal-and-a-Better-Future.pdf

[whatsupdoc]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Hard Brexit doesn't have the votes in Parliament.

It doesn't need any votes. It is the default outcome if nobody prevents it from happening.

[Chomper Higgot]

“The easiest deal in human history”.

 

Those future trade deals will be a cinch.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“The easiest deal in human history”.

 

Those future trade deals will be a cinch.

You have more catchphrases than Bruce Forsyth. ????

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, vogie said:

You have more catchphrases than Bruce Forsyth. ????

I get them free from the champions of Brexit.

 

I feel I ought to make the best of the only thing Brexit has.

[Pedrogaz]

Where is the evidence for a no deal being suicide? I haven't seen any. A period of uncertainty say 3 to 6 months where stopping people at customs gets difficult. The UK can suspend all duties on food and medicine coming in. A modest loss of exports due to tariffs when trading under WTO rules (average tariff of 1.9% although it would obviously vary with the product/service mix of the US's actual exports). 

The City will lose the most but who are about those greedy  so-and-sos who crash the economy periodically with their greed.

Plus the UK saves itself 39 Billion pounds. 

All the gloom and doom comes from think-tanks forecasts and they have an agenda....they simply forecast whatever the payer for their services wants to see. 

The correct course of action is as follows: recall Article 50; call a general election; hold a second referendum. 

May has not acted in the UK's interests. The population voted for a no deal exit (no one had even heard of hard and soft Brexit before the election....out meant out where we made all our own decisions and kept hard borders to the people that voted for it.) May then negotiated a deal which was worse that staying in....and probably she knew it would not pass Parliament.

 

What is clear is that the UK's democracy is broken. The Party system that worked for many years no longer works. Our representatives in Parliament do not represent their constituents at all if 70% of MPs back Remain. Something needs to be done about this. Perhaps breaking up the Party system and have MPs vote the way their constituents want? 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

Where is the evidence for a no deal being suicide? I haven't seen any. A period of uncertainty say 3 to 6 months where stopping people at customs gets difficult. The UK can suspend all duties on food and medicine coming in. A modest loss of exports due to tariffs when trading under WTO rules (average tariff of 1.9% although it would obviously vary with the product/service mix of the US's actual exports). 

The City will lose the most but who are about those greedy  so-and-sos who crash the economy periodically with their greed.

Plus the UK saves itself 39 Billion pounds. 

All the gloom and doom comes from think-tanks forecasts and they have an agenda....they simply forecast whatever the payer for their services wants to see. 

The correct course of action is as follows: recall Article 50; call a general election; hold a second referendum. 

May has not acted in the UK's interests. The population voted for a no deal exit (no one had even heard of hard and soft Brexit before the election....out meant out where we made all our own decisions and kept hard borders to the people that voted for it.) May then negotiated a deal which was worse that staying in....and probably she knew it would not pass Parliament.

 

What is clear is that the UK's democracy is broken. The Party system that worked for many years no longer works. Our representatives in Parliament do not represent their constituents at all if 70% of MPs back Remain. Something needs to be done about this. Perhaps breaking up the Party system and have MPs vote the way their constituents want? 

We can find informed comment if we look for it.

[pedro01]

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Yet, when the UK is divided in each and every sector, some say that that you MUST implement the most divisive public policy decision in 50+ years and/or go back and renegotiate with the EU. BTW, just why would the EU decide to re-negotiate? Why does anyone think the EU actually would give better terms? I wouldn't and can't think of any reason to think they would.

 

 

Because the UK imports far more from the EU than the EU does from the UK.

[whatsupdoc]

14 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

 

Because the UK imports far more from the EU than the EU does from the UK.

That only confirms that the UK needs the EU more than the other way around. So why would the EU offer better terms?

[JAG]

4 hours ago, bomber said:

65-70% of MPs dont want brexit on both sides,a leave PM would make it even worse as a no deal is suicide,brexit needs stopping,it was a farce from the off and has just got stupider by the day,give me a german master any day,JC is coming and that is even worse

What's your name? Halifax?

[mshs]

4 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

BTW, just why would the EU decide to re-negotiate? Why does anyone think the EU actually would give better terms? I wouldn't and can't think of any reason to think they would.

 

 

If the negotiators believe that they once ruled the waves and tamed a continent, they'd get the deal they want,  Sadly, such a person and persons do not exist today, as they have been made to take estrogen shots by the liberal media.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, JAG said:

What's your name? Halifax?

Haw Haw, had to laugh at that.

[melvinmelvin]

non conf motion, and/or WHAT NOW

 

some on TVF has opined that TM might resign, maybe already this week

should that happen it will be fairly quick to put a new Cabinet in place

 

if non conf passes,

that will lead to GE and a new government, 3 weeks? 4 weeks? (2 weeks + 1 or 2)

Corbyn's vision is to jump on the train to Brussels and renegotiate (parts of) the deal.

At this late hour, I think that will remain as a wet dream.

If such a motion had been passed last October, yes, maybe.

 

non conf fails, TM stays on as PM, unless she should resign, as some suggest

several have opined that she will likely survive with a small margin

Labour+LibDem will support motion, SNP?

Tory and DUP will oppose motion

 

Whatever the final outcome of the Brexit process,

it will hardly result in any great national happiness, a fair amount of unhappiness is on the horizon.

 

The Tory motley crew, bojo rees-mogg raab et al has expressed support for TM and will oppose the motion

 

Now, in the longer perspective, next regular GE etc,

is it wise for Tory to let TM continue to further mess around with the Brexit process?

(she is clearly quite divisive and not keen on any kind of cooperation)

Is there any gain for Tory in that.

Or will Tory's future political aspirations be better served by sidelining her?

 

just asking

[evadgib]

36 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

We can find informed comment if we look for it.

You'll have to wait til I join in ????