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Brexit bedlam - May's EU divorce deal crushed by 230 votes in parliament


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1 minute ago, rixalex said:


 

 


The harm is that from that point onward it will be known that referendum results need not be respected or enacted.

Whichever side loses this next referendum you speak of, why would they or should they accept it? History will show that they need not.

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I don't think so. I think it rather shows that referendum results which cannot reasonably be expected to be enacted within a reasonable period of time may be subject to revisiting. 

 

So, in future, let's intelligently find another way to effect massive changes that take many years, and fully expect that knowledge, attitudes and circumstances may change the perspective if referendum items are too long to implement.

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9 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

What a ClusterF**k.

 

The UK is divided. Political parties are divided. The countries that make up the UK are divided. Parliament is divided. Business is divided. Civil Society is divided. Labour unions are divided. Academia is divided.

 

Yet, when the UK is divided in each and every sector, some say that that you MUST implement the most divisive public policy decision in 50+ years and/or go back and renegotiate with the EU. BTW, just why would the EU decide to re-negotiate? Why does anyone think the EU actually would give better terms? I wouldn't and can't think of any reason to think they would.

 

Never in my wildest thoughts could I have imagined a country would screw itself over so badly.

 

When a country is this divided, the only logical course of action is to keep the status quo and scrap the whole thing; perhaps, try again in 10 or 20 years. Sorry to the Brexit supporters, but your country is waaaaaay too divided to do this.

 

Have the courage to say that this can't be done now. Forcing an uncontrolled hard Brexit down the throats of an unwilling populace will only cause division and discord for generations.

 

 

Rubbish.

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6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“The easiest deal in human history”.

 

Those future trade deals will be a cinch.

yes africa and venezuela will be waiting to take our money and goods,getting paid for them will be the difficult bit,my partners father went to the grave being owed a lot of money of zuma,and a local bizzness man in my area was stung for £20 million in venezuela, it was a cinch for them

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24 minutes ago, keemapoot said:

I don't think so. I think it rather shows that referendum results which cannot reasonably be expected to be enacted within a reasonable period of time may be subject to revisiting. 

 

So, in future, let's intelligently find another way to effect massive changes that take many years, and fully expect that knowledge, attitudes and circumstances may change the perspective if referendum items are too long to implement.

 

Ah yes the people are to stupid to be allowed a say in the future, so when the next version of TTIP come in making government monopolies on health care illegal we can wave bye bye to the NHS, doesn't matter people are to stupid for free health care our neoliberal overlords know best.

Edited by Chartist
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6 minutes ago, bomber said:

yes africa and venezuela will be waiting to take our money and goods,getting paid for them will be the difficult bit,my partners father went to the grave being owed a lot of money of zuma,and a local bizzness man in my area was stung for £20 million in venezuela, it was a cinch for them

Yes let's trade with countries oceans away and scrap trade deals with 27 countries on our doorstep.

Jeez....

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45 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

The bookies are giving odds on a 2nd referendum.

I'm not suprised.

 

The best possible 'hope' for remain MPs (the vast majority) is to pretend that another referendum is necessary....

 

I doubt that they are brave/stupid enough to withdraw Article 50, so their only possible chance of remaining within the eu is to call for another referendum - in the hope that the result may be different this time.....

 

A bad choice, as they also know that it leaves democratic votes in shambles and is hardly going to stop the ill-will amongst leavers - who will (of course ????) demand another referendum! 

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4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm not suprised.

 

The best possible 'hope' for remain MPs (the vast majority) is to pretend that another referendum is necessary....

 

I doubt that they are brave/stupid enough to withdraw Article 50, so their only possible chance of remaining within the eu is to call for another referendum - in the hope that the result may be different this time.....

 

A bad choice, as they also know that it leaves democratic votes in shambles and is hardly going to stop the ill-will amongst leavers - who will (of course ????) demand another referendum! 

There's no point any 'Remain MP' pretending another referendum is necessary unless they sincerely believe that a second referendum would result in a 'Remain' vote.

 

Which is kind of the flip side of why 'Brexiteers' fear a second referendum. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There's no point any 'Remain MP' pretending another referendum is necessary unless they sincerely believe that a second referendum would result in a 'Remain' vote.

 

Which is kind of the flip side of why 'Brexiteers' fear a second referendum. 

 

Brexiters have no such fear. This is another myth peddled by project fear and their sympathizers including your good self. If a 2nd referendum were to materialize (it wont) the result would be a far bigger landslide that simply could not be contained, not even by official govt tinkering.

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no, it doesn't stop Brexit
but as explained
it requires parliament to actively give its nod and say "go ahead, Brexit".
 

And what if parliament does not give its nod?
I think you forgot about the EU. If the 29th of March passes without a deal, the EU will conclude the UK has left regardless of whether a nod was given by the British parliament.


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20 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:


And what if parliament does not give its nod?
I think you forgot about the EU. If the 29th of March passes without a deal, the EU will conclude the UK has left regardless of whether a nod was given by the British parliament.

Which is fine. All UK then needs to do is return to the Canada +++ deal that will reach Dover in a bottle on the first tide of 30 March. If that doesn't happen we're still 39Bn better off and free to trade either way.

Edited by evadgib
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Which is fine. All UK then needs to do is return to the Canada +++ deal that will reach Dover in a bottle on the first tide of 30 March. If that doesn't happen we're still 39Bn better off and free to trade either way.

Good to see that you agree that normal transport will be severely impaired. Have fun with your hard Brexit and you might have to wait quite a bit longer for that bottle to arrive.....


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Brexit bedlam?  Hardly that.  We all knew that the deal would be rejected, the only surprise was the size of the rejection.

 

The expected "vote of no confidence in the government" was flagged but I think that has little chance of getting anywhere.  The Tories are fearful of a general election so will rally round May yet again.

 

Brussels have said that there is no room for further negotiation and it is now down to the UK government to decide what they want to do next.  May has said she would come back to parliament next week with a new plan if she survives the no confidence vote.  So she is still trying to push ahead with this stupid deal in one form or another. 

 

As always May will not face reality and look at the only real alternatives.  You can look around for a hero to step in but there isn't one anywhere in sight.

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1 hour ago, whatsupdoc said:


And what if parliament does not give its nod?
I think you forgot about the EU. If the 29th of March passes without a deal, the EU will conclude the UK has left regardless of whether a nod was given by the British parliament.


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point taken

 

I invite SW to respond to that . . .

 

 

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