U.S. Social Security International Direct Deposit (IDD) Update

[Jingthing]

Thanks to all that have contributed to the topic.

 

It seems great news that the receiving account can be a Thai bank account.

 

However, I'm still very confused.

 

With the older BB scheme (via ACH soon to need IAT format) these were very restricted accounts.

No ATM. Must show up in person to get cash from it. (Ugh.)

 

So is there any info yet on the restrictions (or not) for the receiving Thai baht accounts?

 

IDEALLY, I would prefer to send the funds to one of my existing (baht) accounts. A SCB account that I have been using for the 800K bank method retirement extensions that I would like to transition eventually to a combo method thing. (Like most S.S. recipients my benefit is under 65K monthly.)

 

But perhaps this new thing will have restrictions as well, such as a dedicated new account, no ATM, requirement for in person withdrawal. Does anyone have any clues about that yet?

Thanks. 

[Pib]

18 minutes ago, Tagaa said:

Also, I called the phone number listed in the letter from BKK Bank dated Oct, 1 and a young lady named Pranee, that spoke excellent English, told me in less than 1 minute that my transfer was in fact IACH. I applied for my SS last June, so it appears at some date prior to June or July, 2018, there was a change over from ACH to IACH. If someone can find out what the date was, that would answer the question for many people.

With you confirming with Bangkok Bank your  SS payment is being in IAT format that's why the Bangkok Bank SMS started off by "not" saying "SSA Treas 310."   OR, if you live outside of the Metro Bangkok Bank region when HQ Bangkok Bank on Silom Rd relayed it to your branch "somewhere in Thailand" the description got changed somewhat.  What part of Thailand do you live in?

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

32 minutes ago, Tagaa said:

....One more thing I found out today is that you do not need a VPN to get into the SSA website & log in. A friend suggested I use Internet Explorer and the address secure.ssa.gov... I got in no problem.

But how were you able to get an account? It requires a US address that can be verified by credit records etc. It won't accept foreign addresses nor will it accept a US address if it does nto show up in credit bureau records. Do you still have a US address they can verify?

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

But how were you able to get an account? It requires a US address that can be verified by credit records etc. It won't accept foreign addresses nor will it accept a US address if it does nto show up in credit bureau records. Do you still have a US address they can verify?

You're right about the rules.

I did it fairly recently because I've played the "faux" U.S. resident game so still had a credit record with my "current" U.S. address. Otherwise, there really is no way to do it.

[Pib]

 

IDD for Thailand signup form now available, but still no details/signup instructions from Manila.

 

 

 

[Mavideol]

48 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

IDD for Thailand signup form now available, but still no details/signup instructions from Manila.

 

 

 

is it as SWIFT transfer

[flexomike]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

is it as SWIFT transfer

on the form it is asking for swift transfer from your bank

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

is it as SWIFT transfer

Yes.  

[Mavideol]

13 hours ago, Pib said:

Yes.  

do you know who pays the transfer fee, is it the receiver only

[Pib]

27 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

do you know who pays the transfer fee, is it the receiver only

That's yet to be determined because SSA has not flipped the IDD switch to on yet...the published a signup form but the IDD switch is still not flipped on.  The Federal Reserve Bank of Kansan City is actually the one who makes the IDD payment based on payment instructions provided by the SSA....that is, pay Mavideol $XXX on date XYZ to Thai bank ABC. 

 

Then the Fed actually sends the payment directly to the person's bank account (no middle man bank).  OR, uses an in-Thailand "processor" bank for all SSA payments into Thailand.  Might be Bank of Thailand, might be Bangkok Bank, Kaiskorn, etc...just whatever bank the Fed strikes an agreement with.  This way the Fed only needs to deal with one bank in Thailand to fan payments out to all beneficiaries.    The Fed sends the SSA payment to that processor bank who relays it one of numerous banks and branches within Thailand.  This processor bank is kinda like an intermediary/correspondent bank.

 

That "processor" bank has an agreement with SSA/Fed and whether any fee is charged depends on that agreement.  The processor bank then relays your payment to your particular branch via local/domestic transfer (probably BAHTNET) although it may end being coded as international. 

 

Summary: we don't know yet if there will a receiving fee for the IDD method which uses SWIFT like how there is a receiving fee for the current ACH method.  But I figure worst case any receiving fee would be no more than the current receiving fee of approx 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max).  But since the Fed does the currency exchange (sends baht; not dollars) using a wholesale exchange rate that wholesale rate is probably pretty close to the mid-market rate like Transferwise uses....so a person should be better off exchange rate wise than receiving the Thai bank TT Buying Rate used for incoming international transfers.

[Mavideol]

27 minutes ago, Pib said:

That's yet to be determined because SSA has not flipped the IDD switch to on yet...the published a signup form but the IDD switch is still not flipped on.  The Federal Reserve Bank of Kansan City is actually the one who makes the IDD payment based on payment instructions provided by the SSA....that is, pay Mavideol $XXX on date XYZ to Thai bank ABC. 

 

Then the Fed actually sends the payment directly to the person's bank account (no middle man bank).  OR, uses an in-Thailand "processor" bank for all SSA payments into Thailand.  Might be Bank of Thailand, might be Bangkok Bank, Kaiskorn, etc...just whatever bank the Fed strikes an agreement with.  This way the Fed only needs to deal with one bank in Thailand to fan payments out to all beneficiaries.    The Fed sends the SSA payment to that processor bank who relays it one of numerous banks and branches within Thailand.  This processor bank is kinda like an intermediary/correspondent bank.

 

That "processor" bank has an agreement with SSA/Fed and whether any fee is charged depends on that agreement.  The processor bank then relays your payment to your particular branch via local/domestic transfer (probably BAHTNET) although it may end being coded as international. 

 

Summary: we don't know yet if there will a receiving fee for the IDD method which uses SWIFT like how there is a receiving fee for the current ACH method.  But I figure worst case any receiving fee would be no more than the current receiving fee of approx 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max).  But since the Fed does the currency exchange (sends baht; not dollars) using a wholesale exchange rate that wholesale rate is probably pretty close to the mid-market rate like Transferwise uses....so a person should be better off exchange rate wise than receiving the Thai bank TT Buying Rate used for incoming international transfers.

thanks, appreciate the details, let's wait for the final details

[soisanuk]

The following regarding Social Security IDD from US Embassy ACS unit:

 

Quote

 

International Direct Deposit (IDD) is coming to Thailand, but it’s not here yet!  Unfortunately, Bangkok Bank prematurely sent letters to the clients without consulting the Social Security Administration (SSA).  SSA is working closely with the bank to improve its understanding of the upcoming changes and rectify the issue.

If you’re interested in the technicalities, the IAT issue has to do with correspondent direct deposit (CDD), which applies only to Bangkok Bank. Only 20% of the current ‎accounts are not IAT compliant but the bank sent the letter to all the clients. The non IAT-compliant accounts will be moved to International Direct Deposit. A branch of the US Department of Treasury, separate from the branch that oversees IAT, has confirmed they won't reject the payments. Bangkok Bank is also working to get the deadline extended, as the conversion from CDD to IDD will take months.

The IDD rollout is going to take a few more months.  SSA Manila plans to test a small number of cases from Bangkok Bank’s current clients first.  With that being said, when IDD is live – which we will inform everyone – direct deposits can be made into any bank and not just Bangkok Bank.

 

 

Please stay tuned for more information.

Sincerely,

ACS

 

 

 

[Mavideol]

8 minutes ago, soisanuk said:

The following regarding Social Security IDD from US Embassy ACS unit:

 

 

thanks, great post

[Pib]

SSA is definitely rolling out IDD in a slow manner.  On their POMS webpages (policy and instructions) the first issued "instructions" for SSA personnel use in Nov 18....then in Jan 19 had to change it (changing the requirement for USD foreign currency deposit account to a Thai baht account)....around 20 Feb 19 they published the IDD for Thailand 1199 signup form.....then on 1 Mar 19 they issued a change correcting some bank coding data critical to getting the money deposited....and now 8 Mar they issued another change making other corrections.  See below for their 8 Mar 19 change notice.

 

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/reference.nsf/links/03082019080213PM

 

A family member of mine submitted a IDD for Thailand signup form to Manila in late Feb...Manila acknowledged receipt same day and said the bank data will be updated...gave the impression they are now "processing" IDD signup.  However as of a few days ago in both a telephone call and email response from Manila they are still waiting on final instructions from HQ SSA that IDD enrollment can begin....family member's IDD signup on hold awaiting the go-ahead from HQ SSA....apparently SSA is still working out IDD bugs...and still issuing policy/instructions changes like the 8 Mar 19 change.

 

My family member is one of the 20% whose SSA payment is not in IAT format....have had zero results in trying to get the format changed to IAT since Oct 18 per calls, emails, letters, to Manila and Baltimore Int'l Ops SSA offices....even talked to Baltimore again last night (Friday) about correcting to IAT format....rep said she submitted paperwork to make that happen in mid Jan....I told the rep the member's early Feb and Mar payments were "not" in IAT format per Bangkok Bank...Baltimore rep said she will check again...see why the change didn't take.  If asking Manila about what happens on 1 Apr 19 their scripted response is pretty much what the US Embassy ACS said above.

 

[racyrick]

Thanks Soisanuk and Pib for the updates!! Keep them coming.

 

BTW Pib, how do you get SSA Manila to answer your emails?

I have sent emails on 4 different occasions and about 10 days apart and never a reply.

I also sent directly to who I think is my case worker and nothing.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, racyrick said:

BTW Pib, how do you get SSA Manila to answer your emails?

I have sent emails on 4 different occasions and about 10 days apart and never a reply.

I also sent directly to who I think is my case worker and nothing.

 

Me too.....????

[Pib]

1 hour ago, racyrick said:

Thanks Soisanuk and Pib for the updates!! Keep them coming.

 

BTW Pib, how do you get SSA Manila to answer your emails?

I have sent emails on 4 different occasions and about 10 days apart and never a reply.

I also sent directly to who I think is my case worker and nothing.

Well, the rep I'm currently dealing with knows I will complain to the bosses at Manila and Baltimore who Manila works for when the support is inadequate, they are non-responsive, etc.   Plus I will call them to get answers (I don't totally rely on email) and complaint about non-response---put them on the spot.  I have even written letters by snail mail to Manila and Baltimore expressing my displease in slow/no response.  So for now my email inquires to Manila normally get answered within 5 days....occasionally same day or within a few days.  But since Manila rotates SSAN assignments every year a person gets a new rep every 12 months (not necessarily on a Jan-Dec calendar year basis), except maybe if there is a still an outstanding problem with your benefit/payment/account which prevents your SSAN from being handled off to a new rep until the problem is resolved.   So, for right now I have a rep who has been answering my mail especially after I complained about Manila non/slow response.  A lot depends on which rep is assigned your SSAN and the type of question.  If the question is a general question that Manila feels is clearly answered on the SSA web with a little searching/review, I think they will just blow off the question...not respond.   But yeap, it can be frustrating in getting a response from Manila in many cases.

 

 

[Pib]

And just as a reminder for those planning to switch to IDD once it goes online, if you are living in Thailand but intentionally or unintentionally didn't update your address with SSA (which is required by SSA regulation when moving to a new address) you will need to update your address to Thailand (actually any foreign address) otherwise SSA can not switch you to IDD.   Their computer systems will reject it. 

 

Although you will probably enter your Thailand address on the SSA-1199-OP107 IDD form for Thailand, if your foreign address is not already reflected in your SSA "MBR" then SSA will not be able to process the form. MBR means Master Benefit Record....a fancy name meaning your record/file with SSA.  I guess SSA "might" update your address in your MBR to Thailand from the Thailand address you enter on the IDD form, but I don't know; instead, they may come back to your asking confirmation of your residence before they would change your address.  But regardless your MBR has to reflect a foreign address to enroll in IDD.  No can keep your US address to avoid things like the annual dead or alive letter if you want to enroll in IDD.

 

See below partial quote from the SSA weblink I posted four posts above.   The foreign address requirement is not unique for IDD for Thailand...applies to all foreign countries that SSA does IDD to. 

 

And if hoping to have your SSA payment go into your U.S. Dollar account, you no can do that either.  Your IDD for Thailand payment can only go to a baht account....payment will be made in baht.

 

[Blue bruce]

I have been having my SS. checks deposited directly to Direct Express Then I transfer money to my US bank and to my Bangkok Bank account. I have been trying to get my SS. check deposited into my US bank for fear Direct Express will not have the IAT setup.

I tried to change the deposit on the SS. website and received a confirmation that it was done but when I checked again it still showed my SS checks going to DirectExpress. I called SS in USA and was told there was nothing they could do on the phone. I explained I changed my method of deposit and received a confirmation but they still said there was nothing they could do

 

I have called and E mailed 2 times over the past month and get no response. Has anyone else had a problem with changing from DirectExpress to another bank ????  

[Sheryl]

What address to send complaints to in Baltimore and Manila?

As I need to do so.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Pib]

50 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

What address to send complaints to in Baltimore and Manila?

As I need to do so.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

Just use their standard addresses.

 

If mailing thru APO/FPO/from US Embassy/Consulate you can also use below for Manila....it's the military mail version of the civilian address above.

Quote

Social Security Administration
American Embassy Manila
Unit 8600 Box 1610
DPO AP 96515-1610

 

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Blue bruce said:

I have been having my SS. checks deposited directly to Direct Express Then I transfer money to my US bank and to my Bangkok Bank account. I have been trying to get my SS. check deposited into my US bank for fear Direct Express will not have the IAT setup.

I tried to change the deposit on the SS. website and received a confirmation that it was done but when I checked again it still showed my SS checks going to DirectExpress. I called SS in USA and was told there was nothing they could do on the phone. I explained I changed my method of deposit and received a confirmation but they still said there was nothing they could do

 

I have called and E mailed 2 times over the past month and get no response. Has anyone else had a problem with changing from DirectExpress to another bank ????  

Direct Express don't care whether SS payments arrive in non-IAT or IAT format as it's a US based financial institution.

 

And to dis-enroll from Direct Express see below....but before you do, be sure to change where you having your SS payment directed deposited. 

https://www.usdirectexpress.com/faq.html

 

Quote

 

2.11 What are my options if the Direct Express^® card is just not for me?

You have nothing to lose by signing up for a Direct Express^® card. While we believe that you will like your Direct Express^® card, if you don't like it, you may close your card account at any time at no charge by calling the Direct Express^® card Customer Service Department number listed on the back of your card. Before you close your Direct Express^® card account, you will want to spend any money remaining on the card account. You can make purchases, withdraw your money at an ATM, get cash-back with purchase at retail stores, or visit any bank or credit union that displays the MasterCard^® acceptance mark and get cash from a teller. If you have a bank account, you will need to separately enroll in direct deposit to avoid any delays with future payments. To enroll in direct deposit, contact your local federal benefit agency.

 

 

 

Regarding SSA in US saying there is nothing they can do over the phone regarding your direct deposit issue sounds like a miscommunications of some kind.  Maybe they meant they can't help you with whatever you may have been trying to do with Direct Express.   Keep in mind once changing with SSA where your SS payment is being paid to it will not happen immediately....it may take 60 days to go in effect.

https://www.ssa.gov/deposit/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

40 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

Just use their standard addresses.

 

If mailing thru APO/FPO/from US Embassy/Consulate you can also use below for Manila....it's the military mail version of the civilian address above.

 

 

Thanks!

[JDGRUEN]

While waiting for the SSA to finalize the IDD to Thailand or in substitution for it.  An alterative to getting your S.S. Direct Deposit sent to Thailand quickly with low cost and very good exchange rates, is as follows: As an American one can use a TransferWise Borderless Account (TWB).  TWB has a gateway bank in the U.S. - Community Federal Savings Bank, NY. (CFSB/NY).  One can change the SSA Direct Deposit destination to CFSB/NY using a TWB supplied and designated account and ACH Routing Number for CFSB/NY.  This SSA Direct Deposit instantly and transparently enters member's funds into the attached Borderless Account. Then using the TWB App - sign in and forward funds to any Thai Bank. Then if you choose you can send some funds back to your regular American Bank.

 

I have done this very thing successfully for my March S.S. Benefit Direct Deposit. 

 

All of my March S.S. Benefit amount was sent to TWB via the American gateway Bank D.D. at CFSB/NY. 

But I only transferred $650.00 to my Thai Bank Account from the Borderless Account. The balance of my March S.S. Benefit remains in my Borderless Account at my choice. The TWB charge total was $6.71 and the Exchange Rate was 31.7+.  One thing I like about this method is that I am in full control and can even send small anounts back to my regular American Bank which I also did.  

Note: My Account at Community Federal Savings Bank/NY was setup by TransferWise Borderless and the two accounts are basically one and the same - indistinguishable. I contacted SSA before the 14th. of February (as recommended) and changed my Direct Deposit Bank to CFSB/NY.  It all worked quite flawlessly.  Also when setting up the incidental TWB transfer back to my regular American bank, I set it up on both ends as normal.  The ACH destination bank in the U.S. was CFSB/NY.

My American bank required sending two micro deposits as is normal. These micro test deposits showed up in my Borderless Account via the App. thus I could easily confirm them.

 

I hope this is helpful to someone.

[Sheryl]

Did you sign up with a US or Thai residential addtess? I had huge problems eith TW signing up with a Thai address and they deactivated my account mid transfer with no explanation. Which from online reports happens to a lit of people with TW US.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[JDGRUEN]

20 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Did you sign up with a US or Thai residential addtess? I had huge problems eith TW signing up with a Thai address and they deactivated my account mid transfer with no explanation. Which from online reports happens to a lit of people with TW US.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I signed up for a TransferWise account about a year ago using my Thailand address.  I did not use the TW Account because testing showed my American bank account is so restricted as to be useless - could not connect to TW (not the fault of TW)  About three months ago I added the Borderless Account. And as you read above it works flawlessly - so far.

 

When I added the Borderless Account I had to verify my identity. One method used was to take a selfie with the main page of my passport opened and held open next to my face.

[Sheryl]

27 minutes ago, JDGRUEN said:

I signed up for a TransferWise account about a year ago using my Thailand address.  I did not use the TW Account because testing showed my American bank account is so restricted as to be useless - could not connect to TW (not the fault of TW)  About three months ago I added the Borderless Account. And as you read above it works flawlessly - so far.

 

When I added the Borderless Account I had to verify my identity. One method used was to take a selfie with the main page of my passport opened and held open next to my face.

I see. I signed up for a regular account with my Thai address. Problem came when I tried to make a transfer pulling finds from my US bank. They abruptly de-activated and have refused to say why.

 

I am now trying to open an account with OFX, having a lot of problems there too but they at least communicate with me so I know what it is. They are upset that my passport shows a middle name and my bank account does not.  Also keep repeatedly asking for more proofs of address. I suspect they want to be able to cross-check/verify the address with some database and of course, being a Thai address, they cannot. I considered using a US address but then there would be issues because it would not match the address on my bank statement, nor would they be able to verify that with anything other than my dirver's license as all my credit cards etc have my Thai address. Considering abandoning the effort and just writing myself checks drawn on my US bank as has been suggested in another thread. Never thought of it but if no time urgency, may be a good option.

 

IF/when SS IDD finally comes on line, I'll just do that and except in years where I have some unusual big expense that will probably suffice for my living costs.

[racyrick]

18 hours ago, Blue bruce said:

I have been having my SS. checks deposited directly to Direct Express Then I transfer money to my US bank and to my Bangkok Bank account. I have been trying to get my SS. check deposited into my US bank for fear Direct Express will not have the IAT setup.

I tried to change the deposit on the SS. website and received a confirmation that it was done but when I checked again it still showed my SS checks going to DirectExpress. I called SS in USA and was told there was nothing they could do on the phone. I explained I changed my method of deposit and received a confirmation but they still said there was nothing they could do

 

I have called and E mailed 2 times over the past month and get no response. Has anyone else had a problem with changing from DirectExpress to another bank ????  

Direct Express does not have to have the IAT setup.

The money goes to your Direct Express account as a regular direct deposit to a US Bank.

Direct Express uses Comerica bank in Texas and Direct Express is actually run by SAA. The bank is separate.

[Mavideol]

On 3/10/2019 at 12:54 PM, racyrick said:

Thanks Soisanuk and Pib for the updates!! Keep them coming.

 

BTW Pib, how do you get SSA Manila to answer your emails?

I have sent emails on 4 different occasions and about 10 days apart and never a reply.

I also sent directly to who I think is my case worker and nothing.

I asked the same question some time go as my e-mails (3 or 4) were sent to Manila more than a year ago and I am still waiting for an answer, glad was not on a emergency situation

[Blue bruce]

Thanks to everyone that replied about Direct Express