No escaping smog until long-term measures initiated, say experts

[Ossy]

52 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

Thai people (including my wife) and their obsession with driving is ridiculous. She works in Asoke, it is ONE stop on the train from our place to her office near Sukhumvit, we have a free shuttle bus service that drops you / picks you up at the station. Guess what, she drives probably 4 days out of 5 and I bet it takes two or three times longer ????

 

This is someone who has lived and studied abroad and actually done pieces of work on things related to this. Baffling. 

Yes, more than just baffling; more a downright waste of time and money, before you even think about the pollution aspect. I have to assume it's her car and not yours.

[overherebc]

Long term solution is actually 'wait til the weather pattern changes' about 6 to 8 weeks should do it.

[Krataiboy]

No escaping smog until long-term measures initiated, say experts

 

And they need 'experts' to tell them this? Ye gods. . .

[wvavin]

The most crucial part of all is that they should not seek external help or else all faces would be loss!

[kuma]

13 hours ago, ukrules said:

They don't have a clue where it comes from, I was also wondering about this.

 

The traffic has always been crazy in Bangkok so I doubt it's that.

Over a decade here, and the problem has become progressively worse. Every year at the same time - just landed here last year on Jan 12 2018 from Denmark, and then the air was terrible as well - donned an N95 while cycling/walking.

I spent some time traveling rural China in winter, and from what I saw, and looking at the maps of prevailing winds at sites like airvisual or berkelyearth, it seems to me the issue is China, it is poison blowing down from the north with the prevailing winds.

The amount of coal I saw them burning in places like Kaifeng was incomprehensible...people using it all day every day in winter for heat and cooking - the sky was a nightmare.

That is all blowing down here every winter - but I think authorities do not want to say anything as China is a sensitive beast, and will get angry and strike back commercially in all likelihood, if anyone dares raise the point.

My two cents.

[Buffy Frobisher]

If you look at the NASA regional fire map for today (see below or https://go.nasa.gov/2BarOLv), with Cambodia in its peak slash-and-burn farming period, and couple that with the Easterly and North-Easterly winds prevailing at the moment, it's a good guess that a lot of the PM2.5 is crop-burn smoke from over the border. But no politician is about to talk seriously with Hun Sen about it while he provides safe-haven for them when they need to be on the run, or in need of a place to stash the cash. Meet the new normal.

 

[kuma]

11 minutes ago, kuma said:

Over a decade here, and the problem has become progressively worse. Every year at the same time - just landed here last year on Jan 12 2018 from Denmark, and then the air was terrible as well - donned an N95 while cycling/walking.

I spent some time traveling rural China in winter, and from what I saw, and looking at the maps of prevailing winds at sites like airvisual or berkelyearth, it seems to me the issue is China, it is poison blowing down from the north with the prevailing winds.

The amount of coal I saw them burning in places like Kaifeng was incomprehensible...people using it all day every day in winter for heat and cooking - the sky was a nightmare.

That is all blowing down here every winter - but I think authorities do not want to say anything as China is a sensitive beast, and will get angry and strike back commercially in all likelihood, if anyone dares raise the point.

My two cents.

https://www.airvisual.com/earth

 

http://berkeleyearth.lbl.gov/air-quality/map.php

 

 

[connda]

Now that the annual Thailand burn-fest is in full-swing here in the North, the entire North and Northeast will look like Bangkok, except with the additional pollutants in the air, BKK will look far worse as it did when I drove through last year during the annual burning.  Considering that the forest and ag burning contributes about 10x what vehicles do nationwide, perhaps hiding their collective heads in the sand until Rainy Season is the best solution. 
Live in the moment: <Rain>  "Look! All better!"  Until next year. 

[Sir Dude]

Have a look here at real-time air quality index in Thailand and Asian countries...not great anywhere around here. Korat looks OK but Laem Chabang looks as bad as BBK as well. Malaysia are way ahead on air quality.

 

http://aqicn.org/map/thailand/#@g/22.0364/102.9419/5z

 

 

[lannarebirth]

Do they even pretend to make rain anymore? Probably not till the cusp of rainy season.

[unblocktheplanet]

Ban the cars! (Never happen, of course...)

[baboon]

On 1/28/2019 at 9:24 AM, Ossy said:

Public transport, frequent, fast, clean and cheap, has to be the answer when you see just one large vehicle, driving along the same stretch of road as 40 or 50 cars and pickups.

WHAT? Affordable, cheap and reliable public transport? Where do we go from there? Next, you will be advocating affordable public health and then on to a fully regimented communist state.

Well I say NO! We must destroy the planet before it destroys us!

 

Satire, obviously. But this quest to bleed the earth dry and exploit our fellow beings surely must be of concern to us all.

[tlandtday]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/28/deluge-of-electronic-waste-turning-thailand-into-worlds-rubbish-dump

[kuma]

On 1/29/2019 at 4:13 PM, connda said:

Now that the annual Thailand burn-fest is in full-swing here in the North, the entire North and Northeast will look like Bangkok, except with the additional pollutants in the air, BKK will look far worse as it did when I drove through last year during the annual burning.  Considering that the forest and ag burning contributes about 10x what vehicles do nationwide, perhaps hiding their collective heads in the sand until Rainy Season is the best solution. 
Live in the moment: <Rain>  "Look! All better!"  Until next year. 

Bkk really suffering now...

Was planning to go in a few days, but maybe will put it off a while, let this pass

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-30/bangkok-shuts-hundreds-of-schools-as-air-pollution-chokes-city

[anchadian]

Article worth reading from the '/The New York Times'

 

BANGKOK DISPATCH

Bangkok, Draped in Flowers but Smothered by Pollution, Suffers

Rampant urbanization, a car-crazy culture and weak regulation are helping create an air pollution crisis in Thailand’s capital. Will residents fight back?

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/30/world/asia/pollution-thailand-bangkok.html

Edited January 30, 2019 by anchadian

[ocddave]

Quote

No escaping smog until long-term measures initiated, say experts

OK, so nothing will get done...Check....moving on.

[anchadian]

A powerful piece I've just posted.

 

Certainly worth reading.

 

Here's the link again:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/30/world/asia/pollution-thailand-bangkok.html

[attrayant]

School canceled tomorrow due to smog.  There is almost no aspect of society that air pollution does not impact.

[overherebc]

On 1/28/2019 at 5:34 PM, kuma said:

https://www.airvisual.com/earth

 

http://berkeleyearth.lbl.gov/air-quality/map.php

 

 

Sounds like the UK city SMOG's that killed many in the 40's/50's/60's. 

Almost every house coal fired.

1952 London some say up to 12,000 related deaths over a short period.

Edited January 31, 2019 by overherebc

[trainman34014]

On 1/28/2019 at 10:33 AM, BobbyL said:

Thai people (including my wife) and their obsession with driving is ridiculous. She works in Asoke, it is ONE stop on the train from our place to her office near Sukhumvit, we have a free shuttle bus service that drops you / picks you up at the station. Guess what, she drives probably 4 days out of 5 and I bet it takes two or three times longer ????

 

This is someone who has lived and studied abroad and actually done pieces of work on things related to this. Baffling. 

She has the usual Thai 'Attitude Problem'.  My Wife told me the day i first met her that the biggest problem that stops Thailand moving forward is 'Attitude' !

[fruitman]

On 1/28/2019 at 8:50 AM, Ossy said:

Nine'll get you ten, it is the traffic. Too many gas-guzzling, CO2 belching 2.5l (and larger) cars and pickups, carrying only one person . . . there's the problem, for sure.

Many have 2 people on board, 1 is the kid they are bringing to school....(because bangkok is far too dangerous for kids to bicycle to school).

[owl sees all]

On 1/28/2019 at 8:14 AM, Estrada said:

Reminds me of the main cause of smog in London in the 50s, coal fires. In the cold weather with little wind the smog just hung there. Here many people, including some of my neighbours, are cooking on charcoal fires or frying chili. Fried Chili Tear Gas is a main cause of PM2.5 air pollution, as is cooking on Charcoal. When my neighbours are cooking I find it hard to breathe, however, I doubt whether the Government will do anything to stop this main source of pollution. If one looks at the global map of air pollution we can see that currently, the same levels of pollution exist from China, Korea, India, the Gulf States, and onwards to Amsterdam and Rotterdam. The main reason has been open burning of forests, rice paddies and rubbish in land fills. Also the volcanic activity, especially in this region.

The principal components of volcanic gases are water vapor (H2O), carbon dioxide (CO2), sulfur either as sulfur dioxide (SO2) (high-temperature volcanic gases) or hydrogen sulfide (H2S) (low-temperature volcanic gases), nitrogen, argon, helium, neon, methane, carbon monoxide and hydrogen. Other compounds detected in volcanic gases are oxygen (meteoric), hydrogen chloride, hydrogen fluoride, hydrogen bromide, nitrogen oxide (NOx), sulfur hexafluoride, carbonyl sulfide, and organic compounds. Exotic trace compounds include mercury, halocarbons (including CFCs), and halogen oxide radicals. The recent volcanic eruption in Indonesia will have additionally emitted Chlorine gas into the atmosphere. On average, volcanos are responsible for 1% of greenhouse gases globally.

 

 

Good, in-depth post. A bit too technical for most I reckon, but you obviously know what you are on about. Now for the big question! How do they solve the smog problem? Do they want to? Can they; even if they wanted to?

 

Bangkok is doomed anyway. Soon be underwater.

 

I can remember people walking in front of busses in East London in the 1950s. Always took a scarf to school. Used it as a mask on the way home.

[VocalNeal]

....for some many not be forward for others. Regardless of attitude.

 

For some but not for others, forward maybe a cheap ecocar with 100,000 baht tax rebate.

[ocddave]

By how many black smoke spewing diesels I see running around, it doesn't look like anyone cares, and enforcement of any rules/regulations is a joke here anyway, so expect to be breathing the toxic fumes for at least a couple of more generations......that's if they start educating students (future voting citizens) anytime soon.

[sup3r1or]

Don't hold your breath for it, quite literally. We are here up North waiting for solution for decades. Smoke free ASEAN by 2020 remember Prayuth said.  

[Ossy]

2 hours ago, fruitman said:

Many have 2 people on board, 1 is the kid they are bringing to school....(because bangkok is far too dangerous for kids to bicycle to school).

What about school buses, from converted pickup style to full-blown coaches? Could there be more of these in Bangkok? . . . assuming private vehicle use was restricted, of course.

[Buffy Frobisher]

21 hours ago, anchadian said:

A powerful piece I've just posted.

 

Certainly worth reading.

 

Here's the link again:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/30/world/asia/pollution-thailand-bangkok.html

Perhaps @anchadian is the author of the story, nom de plume Hannah, because I fail to see that there's anything powerful about it. It's descriptive, flowery, factually incorrect, and in line with most stories the NYT publish about Thailand these days, in that it has to have mention of military, junta, protests and in this case, a couple of poor dead "Thai dissidents" in the Mekong, all of which has nothing whatsoever to do with the smog!

 

Add to that: "A vendor of coconut ice cream failed to stop his pushcart from careening into a sewer" - hasn't been an open sewer in the capital for years, though a few klongs might smell like it.  

 

"Officials from Thailand’s Pollution Department estimate that vehicle emissions account for roughly 60 percent of the city’s chemical haze." - perhaps, but the deadly problem with this smog is PM2.5 particulate matter, particles of 2.5 microns or less, small enough to traverse your lungs and enter your blood stream. Not a chemical soup of O3, NO2, SO2 and CO2 which are all actually at reasonable levels at the moment. And PM2.5 particles don't come from normal vehicle emissions.  

 

"There are too many cars for too few roads, and too little interest in public transportation." - not true. Get on a BTS or MRT in peak hour and see how little interest there is. With 100kms of new rail under construction, it's more a case of supply not meeting demand yet. And when winds are from any other direction, all those cars and lack of roads don't cause smog.

 

I don't mind a good NYT story from time to time, but writing of everything you seem to dislike about our host country, and then tying it to SMOKE caused by mainly Cambodian farmers (and many Thais too) burning rice and cane fields and then Easterly and North-Easterly winds blowing it into the capital and Central Plains, is doing the country a disservice.

 

PM2.5 pollution is MAINLY carried in smoke from large fires (and cooking with charcoal doesn't help either), and anyone who has lived in SE Asia for a while knows that Singapore and Malaysia suffer the same fate each year when Indonesia's slash-and-burn farmers do the same thing and it's carried on favourable winds.

 

It's a shame this Government, and Hannah, aren't capable of figuring that out too.

[DaRoadrunner]

Biggest problem is the Gov't claim they don't know the cause, when it is obvious to all reading this forum. The Gov't aren't going to do anything about it.