Work Permit (sole practitioner)

[HalfLight]

I'm fed up with being retired and I want to create a small single practitioner practice in my field (psychotherapy/talking therapy). I do not want to work for someone else (eg a hospital), and I want to deal only with English-speaking people (including Thais who can speak English well). I am thinking of changing my visa from a retirement visa to one based on marriage to a Thai (several years, I've lived here for 14 years and in my present house for 12 years).

 

Will changing to a marriage visa benefit me? What is the best way of legally establishing a sole pratitioner consultancy? Anyone know?

 

 

 

[Peterw42]

You would need to setup a Thai Company, 2 million baht capitol, 4 Thai employees (pay tax and social security) etc. That company would employ you and get you a work permit.

Married visa allows you to work with a WP

[robblok]

Quite hard to stay legal, some companies say just hire 4 ghost employees, then you only pay tax for the employees and not wages as they don't exist. Personally I would not go that way as your then setting yourself up as its not fully legal. 

 

Going from retirement to marriage means you can have a work permit (if you have the four Thais ect and the 2 million baht capital). I have heard that the two million baht does not have to be there in liquidity but better consult with a lawyer.

 

My Thai company was a hassle, the accountant was a headache and I am an accountant so I understood what he was doing. But the Thai rules were crazy and it was quite expensive to have an accountant (relatively of course). It can give you a lot of hassle.

 

But given that if you start to work you will have to receive clients and will be doing it out in the open its best to be legal before someone grasses you up. 

 

Anyway good luck, better to work if your bored, you might be able to make some money too if your good at what you do. As far as I know there are always people needing what you sell especially with the aging foreigners here in Thailand. 

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Quite hard to stay legal, some companies say just hire 4 ghost employees, then you only pay tax for the employees and not wages as they don't exist. Personally I would not go that way as your then setting yourself up as its not fully legal. 

 

Going from retirement to marriage means you can have a work permit (if you have the four Thais ect and the 2 million baht capital). I have heard that the two million baht does not have to be there in liquidity but better consult with a lawyer.

 

My Thai company was a hassle, the accountant was a headache and I am an accountant so I understood what he was doing. But the Thai rules were crazy and it was quite expensive to have an accountant (relatively of course). It can give you a lot of hassle.

 

But given that if you start to work you will have to receive clients and will be doing it out in the open its best to be legal before someone grasses you up. 

 

Anyway good luck, better to work if your bored, you might be able to make some money too if your good at what you do. As far as I know there are always people needing what you sell especially with the aging foreigners here in Thailand. 

What are the "qualifications" job op named. If it had been account etc I would understand bit more clearly.

[JackThompson]

If the business is split ownership with your wife, you might be able to only hire 2 Thai employees (depends on the local labor office), and the capital requirement drops to 1M Baht.

[Christophers200]

First, make sure that the Ministry of Health will license you to practice.

[DrJack54]

37 minutes ago, Christophers200 said:

First, make sure that the Ministry of Health will license you to practice.

Exactly. Better worded than my first post but is what I was curious about. Stated only wanted to work with farang. Skip the fluent Thai, that won't happen. Maybe could do it online

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by DrJack54
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[overherebc]

Forget the whole idea, really.

[HalfLight]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Exactly. Better worded than my first post but is what I was curious about. Stated only wanted to work with farang. Skip the fluent Thai, that won't happen. Maybe could do it online

 

Thanks to you and to Chriatophers200. I would be reluctant to deal with the ministry of health, and this would be a deal-breaker for me for a number of reasons I shan't go into (nothing nefarious or fraudulent, just personal preference, I just will not give the Thai government any opportunity to feel they are in a position of power over what I do, and I would fankly prefer not even to work).

 

Online sounds like a better bet, it could certainly be done in principle, though skills would need to be adapted in all probability. Fluent English from a Thai? Yes, I agree it's unlikely to be good enough for the purposes at hand. Maybe a few exceptions but not very many.

 

Thanks to all responders, greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

[robblok]

10 hours ago, HalfLight said:

Thanks to you and to Chriatophers200. I would be reluctant to deal with the ministry of health, and this would be a deal-breaker for me for a number of reasons I shan't go into (nothing nefarious or fraudulent, just personal preference, I just will not give the Thai government any opportunity to feel they are in a position of power over what I do, and I would fankly prefer not even to work).

 

Online sounds like a better bet, it could certainly be done in principle, though skills would need to be adapted in all probability. Fluent English from a Thai? Yes, I agree it's unlikely to be good enough for the purposes at hand. Maybe a few exceptions but not very many.

 

Thanks to all responders, greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

If you don't want the Thai government to have power over you forget the whole hassle of setting up a company and working in it. It will create a lot of hoops to jump through. If your already hesitant to deal with the ministry of health then better give up your idea all together. 

 

If you keep doing everything online maybe you can keep off radar but if you got some disgruntled clients you can get in trouble if they want to grass you up and know you did not jump through all legal hoops. 

[scorecard]

17 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Exactly. Better worded than my first post but is what I was curious about. Stated only wanted to work with farang. Skip the fluent Thai, that won't happen. Maybe could do it online

 

I somehow doubt that would get around the requirement to be licensed by the appropriate Thai board.

 

And I somehow doubt that ultimately on-line is any different from a shop front or your own home in regard to Thai WP laws and regulations.

 

 

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

If you don't want the Thai government to have power over you forget the whole hassle of setting up a company and working in it. It will create a lot of hoops to jump through. If your already hesitant to deal with the ministry of health then better give up your idea all together. 

 

If you keep doing everything online maybe you can keep off radar but if you got some disgruntled clients you can get in trouble if they want to grass you up and know you did not jump through all legal hoops. 

Also keep in mind that if caught there is the chance of deportation or banning, meaning separation from wife/family.

[VocalNeal]

19 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

You would need to setup a Thai Company, 2 million baht capitol, 4 Thai employees (pay tax and social security) etc. That company would employ you and get you a work permit.

Married visa allows you to work with a WP

Not forgetting the farang has to pay a minimum of 50,000 baht a month income tax regardless of income.

 

From memory your outgoings will be about 100,000 - 125,000 a month. You can work it out, then decide if it is really worth it.

Recently you can no long fess up with a picture of 4 people and claim they are your employees. They want to see pay slips, social fund contributions the lot.

[BWPattaya]

The biggest problem that I see is that the people who you want to help are those who can least afford to pay. 

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Not forgetting the farang has to pay a minimum of 50,000 baht a month income tax regardless of income.

That not correct. It a minimum of a 50k baht salary to apply for an extension of stay based working for a company not the minimum amount of tax paid.

[robblok]

15 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Also keep in mind that if caught there is the chance of deportation or banning, meaning separation from wife/family.

Yes that is the big risk.. i would not risk it with having clients here. That is for sure. Too dangerous.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

That not correct. It a minimum of a 50k baht salary to apply for an extension of stay based working for a company not the minimum amount of tax paid.

I like to know more, does that mean you could have a far lower salary and work legal as long as your visa is marriage for instance ? Then your extension of stay is for marriage.. and will the DOL accept a lower salary for your work permit ?

[josephbloggs]

10 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Not forgetting the farang has to pay a minimum of 50,000 baht a month income tax regardless of income.

 

Where on earth did you get that idea?  That is totally untrue.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

I like to know more, does that mean you could have a far lower salary and work legal as long as your visa is marriage for instance ? Then your extension of stay is for marriage.. and will the DOL accept a lower salary for your work permit ?

The is no minimum salary to apply for a work permit.

You would only need a salary of 40k baht to apply for a extension based upon marriage or lower if you used the 400k baht in the bank option.

[seancbk]

16 hours ago, HalfLight said:

Thanks to you and to Chriatophers200. I would be reluctant to deal with the ministry of health, and this would be a deal-breaker for me for a number of reasons I shan't go into (nothing nefarious or fraudulent, just personal preference, I just will not give the Thai government any opportunity to feel they are in a position of power over what I do, and I would fankly prefer not even to work).

 

Online sounds like a better bet, it could certainly be done in principle, though skills would need to be adapted in all probability. Fluent English from a Thai? Yes, I agree it's unlikely to be good enough for the purposes at hand. Maybe a few exceptions but not very many.

 

Thanks to all responders, greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

Online with a website won't be easy unless you are willing to pay someone to build you one, then pay someone to help you promote it.  These are skills you can learn yourself but it would take time.  

I know a gentleman in Australia who has a website you might find interesting http://www.calm.com.au/   

If I were you I would decide how much you want to charge to give people a session of therapy, set up a PayPal account to receive payments, then post in suitable places offering Skype or any Video Messenger sessions.    

I wouldn't bother with a work permit, but I also wouldn't advertise that you are in Thailand.   No-one needs to know where you are based if you do the sessions online.

Good luck.

 

[realenglish1]

20 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

You would need to setup a Thai Company, 2 million baht capitol, 4 Thai employees (pay tax and social security) etc. That company would employ you and get you a work permit.

Married visa allows you to work with a WP

Your wrong IF you are married to a Thai then you only need to Thai employees That is the law

[robblok]

47 minutes ago, seancbk said:

Online with a website won't be easy unless you are willing to pay someone to build you one, then pay someone to help you promote it.  These are skills you can learn yourself but it would take time.  

I know a gentleman in Australia who has a website you might find interesting http://www.calm.com.au/   

If I were you I would decide how much you want to charge to give people a session of therapy, set up a PayPal account to receive payments, then post in suitable places offering Skype or any Video Messenger sessions.    

I wouldn't bother with a work permit, but I also wouldn't advertise that you are in Thailand.   No-one needs to know where you are based if you do the sessions online.

Good luck.

 

I know of people who are in the same line of work as he is, they write books and have other recorded content that people can get access to for payment. That way they make money without having to be one on one with a client. It makes the moneymaking potential a lot higher. 

[guest879]

21 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

You would need to setup a Thai Company, 2 million baht capitol, 4 Thai employees (pay tax and social security) etc. That company would employ you and get you a work permit.

Married visa allows you to work with a WP

yes good advice but you need to be sure you can work in your given field. may professions are protected. make sure you have a good accountant and a good lawyer on call. I had a company and work permit for 9 years and am convinced the only reason they allow us to own companies and have work permits is to extort cash out of us. the cops work as a private security force and you can pay them around 2000thb per month to look after your commercial property. I did this and it was money well spent. I can recommend  a fantastic accountant well connected with immigration if you are in pattaya.

[Peterw42]

32 minutes ago, realenglish1 said:

Your wrong IF you are married to a Thai then you only need to Thai employees That is the law

I think you will find its only if the Thai wife also owns the company and works in the company (ie: a family business), and up to the local labour office. OP mentions nothing about setting up a business with his wife. Lots of labour offices insist on 4 employees no matter what.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Peterw42

[guest879]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

Where on earth did you get that idea?  That is totally untrue.

think he means you have to pay tax on a minimum 50 000thb income.

[Satcommlee]

You may need a licence and while I don't think you are classed as a doctor you may fall under some similar red tape because I do know for sure that foreign doctors practising in Thailand have to operate under the licence of a Thai doctor who takes a cut.

Some labour offices will observe the rule that if you are married then the Thai employee count and paid-up capital requirements are much reduced.

 

The immigration will require you to have a minimum income of 50K a month and to pay tax on it, to continue extensions based on working.

 

 

[HalfLight]

22 hours ago, BWPattaya said:

The biggest problem that I see is that the people who you want to help are those who can least afford to pay. 

Not sure how true that is. What do base your opinion on?

[HalfLight]

14 hours ago, Satcommlee said:

Some labour offices will observe the rule that if you are married then the Thai employee count and paid-up capital requirements are much reduced.

How would that work out? I can create a company in my wife's name and be the only farang employee. I'm not expecting to make a fortune, my reasons for wanting to do it are not really money-related.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

How would that work out? I can create a company in my wife's name and be the only farang employee. I'm not expecting to make a fortune, my reasons for wanting to do it are not really money-related.

There has to be a ration 4 Thais employed to 1 foreigner, otherwise you wont get a work permit. However it could be reduced to two if you are married. It still means you have to put 2 Thais fulltime in service of the company. That is a major drawback, especially for what you want to do. Because the Thais will probably have no function and can't assist you just dead weight but its mandatory.

 

You said before you don't like jumping through hoops (can understand i hated it) then you should really not start a company and go for a work-permit. It will be stressful to say the least. It can be less stressful with a good accountant but that would cost more of course. 

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

How would that work out? I can create a company in my wife's name and be the only farang employee. I'm not expecting to make a fortune, my reasons for wanting to do it are not really money-related.

If married to a Thai you could set up a registered partnership (51/49%) with her. Only one million baht of registered capital would be needed. Some work permit office only require 2 Thai employees if married to a Thai.