Using the transfer-B65k-each-month method, and repatriating the funds

[wpcoe]

I'm sorry, and this is truly ironic, to create yet another thread about the recent retirement/marriage extension changes, but there are just. too. many. pages. of. messages!

 

So, if I start transferring B65k/month into my Thai bank this month, how long before I can transfer it back to the USA?

 

e.g.  15-Feb-19 -- receive B65k into Bangkok Bank account in Jomtien

15-Mar-19 -- receive B65k into Bangkok Bank account in Jomtien

15-Apr-19 -- receive B65k into Bangkok Bank account in Jomtien

 

On 01-May-19 can I transfer B195k back to the USA?  If I've read and remembered correctly, the B400k minimum balance requirement doesn't apply to the paragraph of the Police Order that applies to the new option of transferring B65k into Thailand monthly.

 

Since I own my own condo and use my USA VISA card for many purchases, I usually spend less than B20k cash per month and don't really need the B65k's piling up in Bangkok Bank.

[Sheryl]

There is no specific rule about this. AFAIK no reason you can't send money back immediately.

 

Sending back all of it is likely to raise a red flag though for obvious reasons.

 

Why not get a Thai bank credit card and use that at least some of the time e.g .for local purchases? May actually save some money on currency conversion that way and will up your local spending level.. Then use Dee Money to send back the excess which would then be not quite so large  chunk of the total.

[DrJack54]

How much would you spend not using your visa card (one of most wasteful methods). Surely much more than 20k even given your zero rent.. Think your over complicating things. If over time it acculates too much, then send it back in one hit. 

[wpcoe]

I did a quick calculation for the past two years:

 

B10,464.82 = avg monthly BBL withdrawals

B14,592.76 = avg monthly VISA charges from Thailand

B25,057.58 = avg monthly THB expenses

 

So, if I did ALL my expenses in THB from Bangkok Bank, I'd still be surplussing B40k each month with B65k monthly inbound transfers.

 

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

If over time it acculates too much, then send it back in one hit. 

 

Sending it back in one hit refines my original query:  how soon and how often?  I suspect that nobody knows, but thought I'd submit it to the forum hive mind to see if anybody had any insight.  Also, I wanted to confirm that with the B65k/month method there was no minimum amount required to remain in the account untouched.

[DrJack54]

29 minutes ago, wpcoe said:

I did a quick calculation for the past two years:

 

B10,464.82 = avg monthly BBL withdrawals

B14,592.76 = avg monthly VISA charges from Thailand

B25,057.58 = avg monthly THB expenses

 

So, if I did ALL my expenses in THB from Bangkok Bank, I'd still be surplussing B40k each month with B65k monthly inbound transfers.

 

 

Sending it back in one hit refines my original query:  how soon and how often?  I suspect that nobody knows, but thought I'd submit it to the forum hive mind to see if anybody had any insight.  Also, I wanted to confirm that with the B65k/month method there was no minimum amount required to remain in the account untouched.

There is no minimum amount required to remain. However back to a simple question. How much in total do you spend in Thailand per month. Even given you own your condo. If you are required to transfer 65k every month, why would you be using a foreign visa card. 

Edit. I just re read your answer. Do your own thing. You spend about 25k baht a month. Good luck. I'm pretty fit last week had a DVT. That was 20k. Meds are 10k month. 

Stay healthy on 25k

Edited February 5, 2019 by DrJack54
Error

[phuketrichard]

thought about this way

citibank us charges $35/wire, SCB/BBK charges up to 500 baht/for incoming wires

so thats $51/month in wire charges   $612 /year

Looked at Dee money but  you need give them the baht in person and seems they are only in Bangkok

[Kenny202]

Have been trying to keep up with the posts, but am I right in saying that under the new rules for retirement, as long as you can show 65k being deposited into your account every month from a foreign source for 12 months, that is enough to qualify for retirement?

 

So that means.....(I think)

1) The IO doesn't care where the money comes from ie pension, savings etc...only that it is         deposited from abroad? (before it had to be income per IO definition...pension etc)

 

2) As soon as the 65k is deposited you can use it for expenses or in fact do what you want     with it? So theoretically when you apply for your extension you need no funds in the           bank? Only be able to show the deposits. 

 

3) The monthly deposits negate the need for 800k in the bank before and after (I think) so        do people using the monthly deposit method need to also show the 400k in the bank          continuously or for a certain time after the extension is granted?

 

Please correct each point if wrong.

If I am reading it right there could actually be some advantages in this for some. For eg I could never use the monthly income method. I have savings etc sent over every month and I have money invested in Australia but it wasn't actually a pension or income as they defined it so before this method wasn't available to me. (Yes I know I could have got a stat dec at Embassy). It would have suited me better to send monthly rather than lump sum.

 

The other thing is, particularly about the guys who are saying before they would draw down on the actual 800k and use it for living expenses but now need the money to stay in the bank and pay extra for living expenses ie double what was required before.....If you were depositing the 65K + per month you could live on this as you go...no big investment or dead money laying around.

 

I'm sure I must be missing something here so please correct me if I am wrong. 

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, wpcoe said:

So, if I start transferring B65k/month into my Thai bank this month, how long before I can transfer it back to the USA?

It’s probably not a good idea to do that until we know more about the new system.

[wpcoe]

34 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Edit. I just re read your answer. Do your own thing. You spend about 25k baht a month. Good luck. I'm pretty fit last week had a DVT. That was 20k. Meds are 10k month. 

Stay healthy on 25k

I have a B2m (two million baht) policy with Aetna Thailand (aka BUPA Thailand until last year.)  The B87,948 annual Aetna premium is included in the B25,000/mo that I spend, as was an average of B4,500/mo non-covered medical expenses.  Next.

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

3) The monthly deposits negate the need for 800k in the bank before and after (I think) so        do people using the monthly deposit method need to also show the 400k in the bank          continuously or for a certain time after the extension is granted?

 

No need for any money in the bank at any time other than the day your monthly transfer is credited to your account.

One and 2 are correct.

[wpcoe]

8 minutes ago, OJAS said:

But if you let the 65k's pile up in your BKKB account you should eventually accumulate an 800k balance which you could then use for future retirement extensions and from then on only transfer equivalents of 20k per month (on presumably a rather longer timescale) to fund your cash expenses in LOS!

I'm not overly fond of letting B800k (~US$23k) just sit there, either, but I'm aware of that option.  I think I would like the B65k/mo option better as long as I could repatriate the unused baht on a regular basis to invest as I prefer.

 

BTW, I'm one of the folks in the survey who indicated they may just pack up and leave Thailand.  The changes have been coming quickly and not to my liking.  Supposedly there is another Police Order change imminent.

[elviajero]

8 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Have been trying to keep up with the posts, but am I right in saying that under the new rules for retirement, as long as you can show 65k being deposited into your account every month from a foreign source for 12 months, that is enough to qualify for retirement?

Yes. Plus a letter from your bank.

 

8 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

So that means.....(I think)

1) The IO doesn't care where the money comes from ie pension, savings etc...only that it is         deposited from abroad? (before it had to be income per IO definition...pension etc)

It looks that way as they are not asking for the source of the income.

 

8 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

2) As soon as the 65k is deposited you can use it for expenses or in fact do what you want     with it? So theoretically when you apply for your extension you need no funds in the           bank? Only be able to show the deposits. 

Yes. Yes.

 

8 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

3) The monthly deposits negate the need for 800k in the bank before and after (I think) so        do people using the monthly deposit method need to also show the 400k in the bank          continuously or for a certain time after the extension is granted?

No they don’t.

 

[wgdanson]

15 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Yes. Plus a letter from your bank.

Went to Bangkok Bank Head Branch in Phitsanulok today asking about the 'letter they would produce for Immigration'.

They had no f****g idea what I was talking about.

Luckily I have until December for them to find out.

Edited February 5, 2019 by wgdanson

[elviajero]

25 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Went to Bangkok Bank Head Branch in Phitsanulok today asking about the 'letter they would produce for Immigration'.

They had no f****g idea what I was talking about.

Luckily I have until December for them to find out.

Sounds about right!

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

Yes. Plus a letter from your bank.

 

It looks that way as they are not asking for the source of the income.

 

Yes. Yes.

 

No they don’t.

 

So what is all the fuss about? I don't understand?

 

Okay, the guys using agents that don't have funds may or may not find it more difficult depending on how this all comes out in the wash....But lets face it the guys using agents in reality now don't need agents, they only need to lay there hands on 65k. Rinse and repeat

 

But for the guys who have funds available surely you would just send 65k to your Thai account from abroad every month? All the hoo ha about needing 800k plus living expenses etc, needing twice as much as before. You would be crazy to deposit a big lump sum like that for long periods albeit many would have those sort of funds here by default and wont bother them anyway.

 

I don't know if the Thai govt planned it this way but for those of us who legitimately have required funds I think they have made it easier. They may have actually put some thought into it and all of this debate and complaining may actually push them in a direction that will be detrimental. I could never use the 65k monthly income method before, even though I was transferring roughly that amount over every month as it wasn't coming from a pension. I never liked having a large amount here in any case as I have my money invested in Australia at a great rate. It cost me around $600 AUS in lost interest and transfer fees to have the $40k Australian here for those three months. This has proved to be questionable with falling ex rates etc and maybe I would have been better just bringing the money here in a lump sum anyway. Don't want to debate that as in hindsight I may have been wrong but at least now I have the choice. But now with the new rules theres no question.

 

From what I have seen very early days yet and they may well review and add clauses etc to what they foresee as loopholes....but just taking it on face value I don't really see there is anything to complain about? Is there?

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Kenny202

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, wpcoe said:

I did a quick calculation for the past two years:

 

B10,464.82 = avg monthly BBL withdrawals

B14,592.76 = avg monthly VISA charges from Thailand

B25,057.58 = avg monthly THB expenses

 

So, if I did ALL my expenses in THB from Bangkok Bank, I'd still be surplussing B40k each month with B65k monthly inbound transfers.

 

 

Sending it back in one hit refines my original query:  how soon and how often?  I suspect that nobody knows, but thought I'd submit it to the forum hive mind to see if anybody had any insight.  Also, I wanted to confirm that with the B65k/month method there was no minimum amount required to remain in the account untouched.

Check with Dee Money to see if there is a maximum to how much they can transfer at a time and be guided by that.

 

But probably a good idea to leave some emergency cash on hand here in Thailand.

 

To date no requirement at all to leave the 65k untouched, which makes the new rules for the 800k all the harder to understand. After all 65*12 and 800  are almost the same amount, yet the one can be spent and the other suddenly cannot.

[Pib]

2 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

thought about this way

citibank us charges $35/wire, SCB/BBK charges up to 500 baht/for incoming wires

so thats $51/month in wire charges   $612 /year

Looked at Dee money but  you need give them the baht in person and seems they are only in Bangkok

You do "not" need to give them baht in person.  You can use their mobile app or desktop webpage once you are registered with them.  You do "not" need to visit one of their Bangkok offices to register if unable....like don't live in Bangkok.  More info here as to how to register: https://www.dee.money/get-approved/

[Sheryl]

Just now, Pib said:

You do "not" need to give them baht in person.  You can use their mobile app or desktop webpage once you are registered with them.  You do "not" need to visit one of their Bangkok offices to register if unable....like don't live in Bangkok.  More info here as to how to register: https://www.dee.money/get-approved/

As above. I did the registration entirely online/by email , not at all hard, and I have used via both phone app and computer, couldn't be easier.

[KhunBENQ]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

You do "not" need to visit one of their Bangkok offices to register if unable....like don't live in Bangkok.

This seems somewhat new. I remember that in the beginning that they could only register in person.

Good to know and now waiting for them to make transfer to Euro countries possible

Edited February 5, 2019 by KhunBENQ

[Sheryl]

14 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

So what is all the fuss about? I don't understand?

 

 

 

For the 65k the main issues are:

 

1. New requirement that the funds come into Thailand from abroad (previously just had to have the income).  Those whose actual needs are well below 65k/month -- especially if they have bills they have to pay back in their home country --  now have to do two way transfers with the  associated costs and hassle. Also, documenting that fund transfers have come from abroad within a Thai bank statement - which is seemingly the only documentation  that will fly -- is proving to much harder  than you'd think, if you follow the various threads on this. 

 

2. Requirement that the transfers be every single month and at least that amount (as opposed to averaging that amount, which would at least leave some leeway for bringing in amounts based on need) . The every month aspect is inefficient and unnecessarily costly in terms of transfer fees (especially since people  will have to shift from current money transfer systems to costlier ones in order to have it show on bank statement as being from abroad, see above). It is also problematic for those with income streams that don't pay out monthly.

 

Both are new requirements and they definitely make life a bit harder for people using this method.  Before they only had to have an average income of 65K/month.  It was up to them how much of that to bring into the country and how often, and they could avail of lower cost transfer services to do it.

 

Btu these inconveniences pale in comparison to the hurdles that have unexpectedly arisen for the lump sum method.

[Pib]

Deleted...double post.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Pib

[Pib]

11 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

This seems somewhat new. I remember that in the beginning that they could only register in person.

Good to know and now waiting for them to make transfer to Euro countries possible

No, it's been that way since the beginning except it's only been very recently that DeeMoney made it "more clear" by updating their webpage.

 

Now for everyone: keep in mind DeeMoney can only transfer out the currencies listed at their Money Transfer Rate Exchange webpage below.  

https://www.dee.money/money-transfer-rate/

 

And they may not be able to transfer to all banks.  For example they can transfer to the USA but not to all US banks/credit unions...below is the list they can transfer to.  Can't speak for other countries.  I did two test transfers to my USA bank about two months ago....worked like a charm...funds posted to my US bank account in 2.5 days in both cases.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Pib

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

Sounds about right!

I got the same thing last year when I did my extension. Year before that I took copy of my updated passbook. No good need a letter from the bank. Bangkok Bank looked at me like I was from outer space but I knew someone there pretty well and they eventually did what I needed. Got a letter again the next year from the bank...same drama. This time immigration said not needed...sent me back to get copies of my passbook stamped and signed 5555.

Im sure they just do this sh#t to amuse themselves.

 

I think generally you will find Bangkok bank will resist giving out any non form letters and particularly putting a stamp on it. it's against their policy.

[Sheryl]

9 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

This seems somewhat new. I remember that in the beginning that they could only register in person.

Good to know and now waiting for them to make transfer to Euro countries possible

It reads like like that on the website but I emailed them right at the beginning and they readily offered a means for me to register by email.

[Kenny202]

25 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

For the 65k the main issues are:

 

1. New requirement that the funds come into Thailand from abroad (previously just had to have the income).  Those whose actual needs are well below 65k/month -- especially if they have bills they have to pay back in their home country --  now have to do two way transfers with the  associated costs and hassle. Also, documenting that fund transfers have come from abroad within a Thai bank statement - which is seemingly the only documentation  that will fly -- is proving to much harder  than you'd think, if you follow the various threads on this. 

 

2. Requirement that the transfers be every single month and at least that amount (as opposed to averaging that amount, which would at least leave some leeway for bringing in amounts based on need) . The every month aspect is inefficient and unnecessarily costly in terms of transfer fees (especially since people  will have to shift from current money transfer systems to costlier ones in order to have it show on bank statement as being from abroad, see above). It is also problematic for those with income streams that don't pay out monthly.

 

Both are new requirements and they definitely make life a bit harder for people using this method.  Before they only had to have an average income of 65K/month.  It was up to them how much of that to bring into the country and how often, and they could avail of lower cost transfer services to do it.

 

Btu these inconveniences pale in comparison to the hurdles that have unexpectedly arisen for the lump sum method.

I hear you Sheryl in some respects. I guess it could be more inconvenient for people with actual incomes per se. But really they are only inconveniences. If I used the 65k method I would definitely rather bring in larger more infrequent sums, averaging out to the required yearly amount. I thought before with the 65k method you still had to show this money coming in and a letter from the embassy...or did you only have to prove you had a pension whether you sent it to Thailand or not was up to you?

 

My main point was the bulk of the guys seem to be complaining about the extra funds they would now have to retain in the bank for the lump sum method...then add living expenses on top of that too. 800k for 5 months then 400k for the remainder of the year. If you felt this was a burden surely you would be better off transferring the monthly amounts then no need to have any money in the bank and live off your 65k? Leave your big money invested in your home country if you chose to do so? 

 

I agree re trying to get documentation from the bank re source of the transfer OS. I did a transfer today actually. I'll go online and have a look how it appears on the statement (Bkk Bank)

 

And the guys using agents will actually be better off if they can lay their hands on 65k. You pay an agent 25k a year its gone forever. At least at the end of the year you still have your 65k less tfer fees etc.

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Kenny202

[Kenny202]

I just checked. I can't do an online statement as such but the screen transaction list says "international transfer". The online transaction list is printable, but I know for a fact Bangkok bank wont put a stamp on it as legit, even if Imm would accept it.

 

Whether this would print out as an international transfer on a passbook or not I am not sure.

What are immigration asking for? Bank statements or passbook? I have tried to get my bank to stamp and copy statement copies they themselves printed out before and they wouldn't do it. Still charged me 100 baht for it though!

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

People looking for a way to cheat the system again. That will could finally result the income way to be cancelled later too.

[madmen]

Yeah right. When corruption stops in immigration in about 50 years then farang should stop cheating to.

As it is right now who cares.

[JackThompson]

47 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

I thought before with the 65k method you still had to show this money coming in and a letter from the embassy...or did you only have to prove you had a pension whether you sent it to Thailand or not was up to you?

Usually just the embassy letter was accepted.  In some cases (Chiang Mai), they asked for 2ndary documentation, for which a pension / social-security letter was reported as being acceptable.

 

26 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

People looking for a way to cheat the system again. That will could finally result the income way to be cancelled later too.

Given how much more prone to fraud the new system is, than an embassy letter was (no passport-country crime involved for the fakers), it is possible that that the current system was designed to be abused - setting the table for "bad guys" to be blamed for canceling the income-option all together.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Btu these inconveniences pale in comparison to the hurdles that have unexpectedly arisen for the lump sum method.

For those they keep 800K all year there is no change.

 

For those that drawdown all or part of the 800K it just means transferring a little more than before when they first start. From the second year onwards nothing has changed.

 

Currently in the first 15 months from arriving in the country you need to maintain 800K for 5/15 months. Now it’s 7/15.

 

It really is a fuss about nothing.