The Latest Info on Retirement Visas from Immigrations

[billsmart]

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

But a totally undocumented one??? No reference to that specifically in any of the docs you posted...

 

Yes, it wasn't in any documents I was given (which I've posted here), but I was told that by the officers there - more than one, and one of the people working there was a young woman from Australia who was working there until March, and with whom I was able to converse and ask some more detailed questions - like does this have to be "pension" or any income? And if "pension," does it have to be a pension paid by the government, or can it be a pension paid by a private employer, or could it be money you receive from an Individual Retirement Account (IRA) that we in the US were encouraged to invest in? She couldn't answer those questions, but was able to confirm an official bank statement issued from my bank would suffice to show the THB 65K/mo for my next extension in Dec 2019. But after that, it would have to be a letter from my embassy or THB 800K in the bank.

Edited February 10, 2019 by billsmart

[Moon37]

30 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Here is what Transferwise replied to my enquiry about this:

 

"

Hi William,

I hope this email reaches you well.

The basis of how TransferWise operates is that we’re able to move funds internationally without the money physically crossing borders. This is achieved through a series of two domestic transfers— a domestic transfer from your account to our account and another local transfer from our account in the currency the recipient is receiving into their local account. We’re able to offer better rates and less fees to our customers by executing transfers in this manner.

Unfortunately, there is not a way that we can change the way we complete transfers since this is a fundamental part of how we operate as a company.

I’ve included additional information on how TransferWise works for you HERE.

Feel free to reach out with any additional questions.

All the best,
Wilson"

Thanks Bill,

 

For the past 5 years I have been using Bangkok Bank NY as my domestic ACH from BOA.  And then BB NY transfers magically to my BB BBK.  The BB NY office states that 1 April it will only adhere to Direct Deposit International ACH Transfers.  (DD IAT).  

I believe I understand your currency domestic transfers

[Spidey]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There's nothing in the TH language documents the OP posted that indicates they were written by Phetchabun immigration. The OP may have gotten the copies from that office. But the authors / sources of the documents are main Thai Immigration and the national police chief.

 

There's also nothing in the Thai language version to suggest that the original documents weren't cut/pasted/ amended by Phetchabun Immigration - apart than the fact that this document flies in the face of all recent police orders issued regarding retirement extensions.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

There's also nothing in the Thai language version to suggest that the original documents weren't cut/pasted/ amended by Phetchabun Immigration - apart than the fact that this document flies in the face of all recent police orders issued regarding retirement extensions.

 

My wife said the cover sheet document is written by and signed by a central Immigration officer -- not anyone from some outlying office.

 

I don't know and can't tell who exactly did the EN translation. But the Thai versions clearly are authentic and not coming from some outlying office. As I indicated above, the 2nd and 3rd pages dated Jan. 18 are signed by the national police chief.

 

 

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure where you are getting the year 2020 from. Perhaps when you next application will be due.

The new income rules are already in effect. if you can still get income proof it will be accepted if not then you have to show 65k or 40k (marriage) baht of income going into a Thai bank from abroad. After this year it will have to be 12 months of transfers going into the account.

For the money in the bank for retirement the new rules go into effect on March 1st.

I do not wish to argue with you but that is certainly not what the OP says. It is very specific that income is only accepted via an Embassy letter. 

[billsmart]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

There's also nothing in the Thai language version to suggest that the original documents weren't cut/pasted/ amended by Phetchabun Immigration - apart than the fact that this document flies in the face of all recent police orders issued regarding retirement extensions.

Are you also a follower of other conspiracy theories? Maybe the "faked" moon landing? ????

You'd have to seriously ask yourself why would Phetchabun Immigrations, or any other remote branch, try to forge rules like this?

[FritsSikkink]

40 minutes ago, thequietman said:

From the Original OP. Did you not read it?

If you are a millionaire, and under 50 you can get an investment visa and an elite visa, above 50 you can get an investment visa,  an elite visa and a retirement visa. So what are you on about?

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, billsmart said:

You'd have to seriously ask yourself why would Phetchabun Immigrations, or any other remote branch, try to forge rules like this?

I've already answered that in my original post. Plus, they think that they can get away with it. No local farang is going to email a copy to Big Joke.....are they?

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, billsmart said:

For me, the news that beginning in 2020, Immigration will no longer be accepting letters from your bank to prove your income is news to me.

You are also claiming they will not accept bank statements for proof of income, that ONLY an Embassy letter will work in 2020. I don't see the UK Embassy backtracking. You are saying bank deposit HENCE becomes the obligatory only method for a retirement ext for Brits (eg)!

Edited February 10, 2019 by jacko45k

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

22 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Yes, that's what I was told. The "get a letter from the bank verifying international deposits" was just an interim, transitional method acceptable in 2019 as a temporary dispensation.

 

If that's correct, and it certainly appears to be based on the documents you posted, that will really screw over the Americans, Brits, Aussies and Danes...

 

Because, without the ability to obtain Embassy income affidavits any more, based on the documents you've posted, citizens from those countries would no longer be able to obtain retirement extensions based on monthly income OR the combination method....both of which require the affidavits.

 

And would for citizens from those countries, for the future, leave only one method to qualify financially, the 800K Thai bank deposit.

 

[billsmart]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

If that's correct, and it certainly appears to be based on the documents you posted, that will really screw over the Americans, Brits, Aussies and Danes...

 

Because, without the ability to obtain Embassy income affidavits any more, based on the documents you've posted, citizens from those countries would no longer be able to obtain retirement extensions based on monthly income OR the combination method....both of which require the affidavits.

 

And would for citizens from those countries, for the future, leave only one method to qualify financially, the 800K Thai bank deposit.

 

Correct. That's my reading and understanding of this too...beginning in 2020.

Edited February 10, 2019 by billsmart

[cmarshall]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

My wife said the cover sheet document is written by and signed by a central Immigration officer -- not anyone from some outlying office.

 

I don't know and can't tell who exactly did the EN translation. But the Thai versions clearly are authentic and not coming from some outlying office. As I indicated above, the 2nd and 3rd pages dated Jan. 18 are signed by the national police chief.

 

 

It looks to me that pages 1 - 3 are one document signed by an official.  Page 4 is another document with a different signature.  Page 5 and 6 are yet another document with no signature and no indicated source.  5 and 6 look like a local addendum to me.

[billsmart]

7 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

You are also claiming they will not accept bank statements for proof of income, that ONLY an Embassy letter will work in 2020. I don't see the UK Embassy backtracking. You are saying bank deposit HENCE becomes the obligatory only method for a retirement ext for Brits (eg)!

No, it's even worse than that... ???? And, I'm from the US, so I'm in the same boat as you regarding this situation.

The INTERNATIONAL bank deposits (and make sure you note the "INTERNATIONAL" part) will only work for extensions in 2019. After that, only THB 800K in the bank will qualify for US,  UK,  and any others who can't get an embassy letter.

That's what I was told Friday at my Immigration Office in Phetchabun.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

It looks to me that pages 1 - 3 are one document signed by an official.  Page 4 is another document with a different signature.  Page 5 and 6 are yet another document with no signature and no indicated source.  5 and 6 look like a local addendum to me.

 

As I posted previously, my Thai wife says the first page is a Jan. 28 transmittal letter signed by some central/BKK Immigration official.

 

The second and third pages are a memo signed by the national police chief dated Jan, 18 that includes mention of the ensuing attachments that spell out the details for qualifying for a retirement extension, effective March 1, 2019,

 

It's not clear to me whether the EN translation at the end was part of the original package, or whether someone else did their own EN translation afterward. But the EN translation does appear to accurately reflect the TH version of the requirements.

 

As best as I can tell, these documents represent an update to, and changes to, the original Dec. 21 announcement by Immigration that set off the current ****storm.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Correct. That's my reading and understanding of this too...beginning in 2020.

They apparently did not get the memo and order about income going into a Thai bank will be accepted now if you don't have proof of income from an embassy. Perhaps show them this that came from the immigration website in Thai.

Amendment to police order 138/2557 Thai text 

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Chodi25 said:

I never seriously considered keeping a minimum balance of 800k in my Thai savings account before just because it is a waste of a lot of money. You get little or no interest on that savings from a Thai bank. I wonder if they would accept money in a Thai brokerage account. There are some large international brokerage firms in Bangkok. At least that would put the money to work. 

No end to entertaining options on this thread.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

So it definitely appears to be a legitimate document and the guts of which deserve our attention.

 

From my wife's reading, all the documents in TH language are coming from the main police and/or Immigration offices, and not some memos issued by a local Immigration office.

 

 

Sounds to me it is the same previous document we have been banging on about for about 2 weeks, order 35/2561

Highly unlikely it is so different without being a new order.

Edited February 10, 2019 by jacko45k

[sniggie]

11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

If that's correct, and it certainly appears to be based on the documents you posted, that will really screw over the Americans, Brits, Aussies and Danes...

 

Because, without the ability to obtain Embassy income affidavits any more, based on the documents you've posted, citizens from those countries would no longer be able to obtain retirement extensions based on monthly income OR the combination method....both of which require the affidavits.

 

And would for citizens from those countries, for the future, leave only one method to qualify financially, the 800K Thai bank deposit.

 

That's the point I am making in this thread. If that comes to pass it will be an unforgivable abrogation of their responsibility to their citizens for these four embassies not to revisit their decision.  Apart from anything else to have four countries' citizens treated differently from all the others would be a shameful inditement on those who made the decision.  

[billsmart]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

They apparently did not get the memo and order about income going into a Thai bank will be accepted now if you don't have proof of income from an embassy. Perhaps show them this that came from the immigration website in Thai.

Amendment to police order 138/2557 1.9 MB · 25 downloads  Thai text 

Thanks, but I can't read Thai. What's the date on this? If it's earlier than Jan 28, the documents I were given are more recent. And again. what I was told was INTERNATIONAL bank deposits would be accepted, but only through 2019.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They apparently did not get the memo and order about income going into a Thai bank will be accepted now if you don't have proof of income from an embassy. Perhaps show them this that came from the immigration website in Thai.

Amendment to police order 138/2557 1.9 MB · 26 downloads  Thai text 

 

Joe, could be wrong about this, but the documents posted by the OP do appear to be a later, superceding version of the documents you're referring to....

 

My wife says the 2nd and 3rd pages are an updating memo signed by the national police chief dated Jan. 18, 2019, reference 35/2019.

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[cmarshall]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

As I posted previously, my Thai wife says the first page is a Jan. 28 transmittal letter signed by some central/BKK Immigration official.

 

The second and third pages are a memo signed by the national police chief dated Jan, 18 that includes mention of the ensuing attachments that spell out the details for qualifying for a retirement extension, effective March 1, 2019,

 

It's not clear to me whether the EN translation at the end was part of the original package, or whether someone else did their own EN translation afterward. But the EN translation does appear to accurately reflect the TH version of the requirements.

 

As best as I can tell, these documents represent an update to, and changes to, the original Dec. 21 announcement by Immigration that set off the current ****storm.

 

 

You missed the point of my post.  I have no question about the authority of pages 1 through 4, which we have already seen in any case.  The only new information, i. e. monthly transfers alone will not be satisfactory, is to be found in page 5 and its English translation in page 6.  The provenance of those pages is not indicated and it is visually obvious that they are not part of any of the documents in pages 1 through 4.  Therefore, I think it likely that they are a local addendum.  Now, it may turn out that that policy becomes the the national policy in the future, or that is the policy that will be applied in Petchabun, or none the foregoing.  We just don't know, but for the moment the new policy lacks national authority.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, sniggie said:

That's the point I am making in this thread. If that comes to pass it will be an unforgivable abrogation of their responsibility to their citizens for these four embassies not to revisit their decision.  Apart from anything else to have four countries' citizens treated differently from all the others would be a shameful inditement on those who made the decision.  

 

I agree with your judgment... But I fear, that ship has already sailed, and the citizens from those four countries have been cast adrift by their Embassies, to continue the seafaring analogy....

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

  Now, it may turn out that that policy becomes the the national policy in the future, or that is the policy that will be applied in Petchabun, or none the foregoing.  We just don't know, but for the moment the new policy lacks national authority.

 

My Thai wife doesn't read it that way. She reads all the Thai language documents as being from BKK and having nothing to do with Petchabun...

 

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Joe, could be wrong about this, but the documents posted by the OP do appear to be a later, superceding version of the documents you're referring to....

Those are the ones for the money in the bank option.

Same as this one. Police Oder 35/2562 Changing 327/2557 Clause 2.22 Thai text.

There is also one that changes a few things for 3 other types of extension.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

As I posted above, my wife says the first page is a Jan. 28 transmittal letter from main Immigration (not some provincial remote office).

 

And the second and third pages are a memo from the national police chief dated Jan. 18 with a reference of 35/2019.

 

There was a letter dated 21 December that listed documentation requirements for the income method for countries that do not supply Embassy letter. This appears to be missing from this and the last page list not updated to reflect it.

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1076820-confirmed-here-is-exactly-what’s-needed-for-retirement-marriage-extensions-income-method-from-2019/?tab=comments#comment-13713447

 

[cmarshall]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

My Thai wife doesn't read it that way. She reads all the Thai language documents as being from BKK and having nothing to do with Petchabun...

 

I understand that she reads it that way, but such a reading is, for the moment, unwarranted.  You'll notice that the official Thai documents uniformly begin with date and department information and end with the signature of the officer.  Pages 5 and 6 do not follow that format, from which I conclude they are neither part of the previous documents nor a separate document issued by the national police.  So, I am guessing it's something the Pechabun office put together on their one, but the salient point is that it lacks both provenance and an author.  Bureaucrats don't operate that way.

[CMNightRider]

I have a retired western friend who recently went to apply for his one year retirement visa extension.  He has been in Thailand for over ten years with a retirement visa.  He showed the immigration officers (secretaries in uniforms) his US brokerage account with a little over $1,000,000 in various mutual funds.  This is one million in US dollars.  

 

The immigration officer called over his supervisor along with another officer to view the statement.  Keep in mind, a very large segment of the Thai population barely have two nickels to rub together, and few immigration officers will ever have a 65,000 baht monthly salary nor would they ever have 800,000 baht in a Thai bank.  

 

The three of them determined $1,000,000 in a US brokerage account doesn't meet Thailands financial requirement to get a one year visa extension, and turned him away.  The brokerage account clearly shows he earns around $40,000 a year in dividends.

 

If you feather merchants think for one minute, immigration is requiring foreigners to have 800,000 baht in a Thai bank because they want to assure you have the funds to live here, you are either under the influence of an illegal substance or have a very low cognitive ability.

 

The only reason these people want foreigners to deposit their money in Thai banks, is so the Thai banks and Thai government can profit from money earned from foreigners.  This is going to be a windfall for the Thai banks, and they don't even have to work for this money.

 

This is why so many expats are leaving Thailand every month.  As for the apologetic posters who think Thai immigration is so great, I would suggest you remove you head from that dark place and wake up. ????

 

   

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Those are the ones for the money in the bank option.

Same as this one. Police Oder 35/2562 Changing 327/2557 Clause 2.22 Thai text.

There is also one that changes a few things for 3 other types of extension.

 

So I'm confused, not surprisingly...

 

In straightforward terms, what's your read of the documents posted by the OP, and the absence from them of any mention about monthly deposits to a Thai bank account?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

There was a letter dated 21 December that listed documentation requirements for the income method for countries that do not supply Embassy letter. This appears to be missing from this and the last page list not updated to reflect it.

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1076820-confirmed-here-is-exactly-what’s-needed-for-retirement-marriage-extensions-income-method-from-2019/?tab=comments#comment-13713447

 

 

So then the question is, do the OP's documents SUPERCEDE what's previously been issued, or merely augment it?  The January documents posted by the OP do spell out for retirement extensions the three different methods of qualifying....

[Thaidream]

8 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

ou missed the point of my post.  I have no question about the authority of pages 1 through 4, which we have already seen in any case.  The only new information, i. e. monthly transfers alone will not be satisfactory, is to be found in page 5 and its English translation in page 6.  The provenance of those pages is not indicated and it is visually obvious that they are not part of any of the documents in pages 1 through 4.  Therefore, I think it likely that they are a local addendum.  Now, it may turn out that that policy becomes the the national policy in the future, or that is the policy that will be applied in Petchabun, or none the foregoing.  We just don't know, but for the moment the new policy lacks national authority.

I would concur- the last 2 pages  are a local produced document which attempts to explain the official order- IMHO- the interpretation of Phetchabun regarding  the 65K transfer is wrong-  the original police order makes it clear that this is the established income method in lieu if having an Embassy Letter

 

I , for one, am drafting a letter to the US Embassy  making them aware of the chaos they have helped unleash on its citizens in their reckless abandonment of the official Embassy letter.  I hope others do the same.