6 billion baht request to Cabinet for sugarcane harvesters to reduce smog

[webfact]

6 billion baht request to Cabinet for sugarcane harvesters to reduce smog

 

 

Thailand’s Finance Ministry will seek cabinet approval for 6 billion baht, to be distributed by the state-run Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC), for farmer cooperatives and community enterprises to buy sugarcane harvesting machines.

 

BAAC manager Mr. Apirom Sookprasert said that sugarcane farmers can’t afford the machines themselves so, in several provinces, many of them resort to burning the cane to enable harvesting, producing smog from PM2.5 dust particles. However the practice reduces the quality of the harvest and, thus, the value.

 

Mr. Apirom said, if approved, farmer cooperatives and community enterprises will be able to contact the BAAC to apply for loans, with at least one sugar miller acting as the guarantor, to purchase the harvesters.

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/6-billion-baht-request-to-cabinet-for-sugarcane-harvesters-to-reduce-smog/

 

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2019-02-18

[Thailand]

Or fine them,use the money from the fines to buy harvesters and rent them to the farmers?

[mok199]

The sugarcane pollution cash pie......this is the big enchilada...

[bluesofa]

15 minutes ago, webfact said:

so, in several provinces, many of them resort to burning the cane to enable harvesting, producing smog

I'm probably asking something too obvious here, but how does burning the cane enable harvesting?

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

I'm probably asking something too obvious here, but how does burning the cane enable harvesting?

I don't know but don't you understand that its not about solving a problem but taking a cut from those selling sugarcane harvesting machines. 

 

I always thought the burning happened after the harvest. (cant be 100% sure I am not an expert).

 

Though if they really want to solve the problem then this is of course better then banning the burning alone as that is leaving farmers without solutions. If this is workable then it would be a good 2 prong solution banning and giving a way out. 

 

However my lack of knowledge about the process makes it so I can't be sure this will help.

[Liverpudlian]

7 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

I'm probably asking something too obvious here, but how does burning the cane enable harvesting?

It simply strips the dead leaves away fairly rapid thus eliminating manual labour to do the same job.

[fruitman]

Why don't they collect the leaves at the same time?

 

 

[bluesofa]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

I don't know but don't you understand that its not about solving a problem but taking a cut from those selling sugarcane harvesting machines. 

 

I always thought the burning happened after the harvest. (cant be 100% sure I am not an expert).

 

Though if they really want to solve the problem then this is of course better then banning the burning alone as that is leaving farmers without solutions. If this is workable then it would be a good 2 prong solution banning and giving a way out. 

 

However my lack of knowledge about the process makes it so I can't be sure this will help.

I follow your cynical approach about selling the machines.

 

I too assume it's the leftovers that are burnt. Does a sugarcane harvester remove the 'stubble' at the same time it harvests the sugarcane itself, thereby negating the burning requirement?

 

Or could the farmers still burn it in one large bonfire, as they won't have evolved a way to dispose of it?

[robblok]

1 minute ago, bluesofa said:

I follow your cynical approach about selling the machines.

 

I too assume it's the leftovers that are burnt. Does a sugarcane harvester remove the 'stubble' at the same time it harvests the sugarcane itself, thereby negating the burning requirement?

 

Or could the farmers still burn it in one large bonfire, as they won't have evolved a way to dispose of it?

I wish I knew, i don't know enough about the process, but I do know you can't just ban something and not give an alternative. So maybe this is useful but on the other hand I can't see as I don't know the process.

 

Just banning burning (good idea) without an alternative that is not too costly time consuming (bad idea to not help with an solution) will not work.

 

So I get that it should be a two pronged attack of the problem however I am not sure that this solution is viable. 

 

But I wait for the farming experts to chip in on this one.

[fruitman]

Here these machines for sugar beets show how it's done

 

 

[fruitman]

Can't they feed the chopped sugarcane leaves to the pigs?

[tlandtday]

A step in the right direction if it is done efficiently and not too much skimming.

[PatOngo]

I only hope 6 billion baht is enough. I would feel shattered if they left themselves short!

[LennyW]

20 minutes ago, fruitman said:

Here these machines for sugar beets show how it's done

 

 

Sugar beet is not Sugar cane.

[neeray]

26 minutes ago, fruitman said:

Why don't they collect the leaves at the same time?

 

 

Thank you for that video "fruitman'.

Get the B6 billion. Set up the co-ops.

[neeray]

11 minutes ago, fruitman said:

Can't they feed the chopped sugarcane leaves to the pigs?

A former Thai gf owned a little palm farm. After cutting the branches to access the fruit, they would leave the branches anywhere and everywhere amongst the fields/roads which ultimately got in the way. The idea was that they would eventually return to Mother Earth. I always wondered if there couldn't be some use for these branches. Or if some enterprising Thai were to purchase a tow-behind mulching machine, he/she could sell this service to other palm farmers. Could be kept busy from dawn to dusk, 7 days a week as there is so many palm farms.

 

As "fruitman" has suggested about feeding to the pigs, I feel like there must be a use for all the

"harvest left=overs" (I know, This is Thailand).

[monkfish]

1 hour ago, bluesofa said:

I'm probably asking something too obvious here, but how does burning the cane enable harvesting?

The outer shell and leaves are very tough difficult to remove by hand, burning them off is the fastest and cheapest method used for hundreds of years

[fruitman]

8 minutes ago, neeray said:

Thank you for that video "fruitman'.

Get the B6 billion. Set up the co-ops.

There are loads of great agriculture harvesters....they should contact those pesky farangs and ask them for the best solution, even if they charge them the 10-foulded price.????

 

 

[fruitman]

on the worldmarket it's all about price and quality.

 

How can the Thai with their silly tractors compete against the fallang??

 

 

[neeray]

2 minutes ago, fruitman said:

There are loads of great agriculture harvesters....they should contact those pesky farangs and ask them for the best solution, even if they charge them the 10-foulded price.????

 

 

In the country where I live when not in Thailand, I used to live outside the city in farm country and drove to work in the city. On the way, to and from, I would see giant harvesting machines going from farm to farm harvesting. One machine serviced many farms, working from before sun up to long after sun down.

Burning here by "permit only" and only issued for very special reasons.

[canopy]

It has already been observed that when the cane buyers put in policies that they would not purchase burnt cane, the Thai farmers harvested their green cane, sold it, THEN BURNT THE FIELDS AS USUAL. In light of this, how are harvesting machines going to help reduce smog?

 

[fruitman]

3 minutes ago, canopy said:

It has already been observed that when the cane buyers put in policies that they would not purchase burnt cane, the Thai farmers harvested their green cane, sold it, THEN BURNT THE FIELDS AS USUAL. In light of this, how are harvesting machines going to help reduce smog?

 

Exactly, they need a harvester with a plow connected so the stumbles all will get plowed under the soil.

 

I'll say it again, France proposed the EU already to BAN all polluting crops...in a few years the WHOLE EU will stop buying it so if Thailand doesn't act fast now they'll get a total ban as well....

 

And it seems the Thai still don't understand how it's done so i suggest to hire some (farang) experts in this business to advice them. It's 2019 now, the buffalo's can retire and let the machines take over.

 

 

[billd766]

39 minutes ago, neeray said:

Thank you for that video "fruitman'.

Get the B6 billion. Set up the co-ops.

I did a Google search for sugar cane harvesters and there are quite a few out there for sale, new and used.

 

They all lack one vital detail though. There are no prices listed.

 

If they are imported you need to get the purchase price and add about 250% which is what it will probably cost here in Thailand. You would also (if you were smart) order spares at the same time, so that if you do need something, you don't have so much downtime on the machine.

[thaiguzzi]

1 hour ago, fruitman said:

Here these machines for sugar beets show how it's done

 

 

sugarbeet

sugarcane

4m tall sugarbeet.....????

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I don't know but don't you understand that its not about solving a problem but taking a cut from those selling sugarcane harvesting machines. 

 

I always thought the burning happened after the harvest. (cant be 100% sure I am not an expert).

 

Though if they really want to solve the problem then this is of course better then banning the burning alone as that is leaving farmers without solutions. If this is workable then it would be a good 2 prong solution banning and giving a way out. 

 

However my lack of knowledge about the process makes it so I can't be sure this will help.

 

1 hour ago, bluesofa said:

I'm probably asking something too obvious here, but how does burning the cane enable harvesting?

 

1 hour ago, bluesofa said:

I follow your cynical approach about selling the machines.

 

I too assume it's the leftovers that are burnt. Does a sugarcane harvester remove the 'stubble' at the same time it harvests the sugarcane itself, thereby negating the burning requirement?

 

Or could the farmers still burn it in one large bonfire, as they won't have evolved a way to dispose of it?

The burning of sugarcane is done at the beginning of the harvest.

It is the FIRST process, not the last.

Cane cutters are on piecemeal work, the more they cut and bundle the more they earn.

The owner of the field decides if his cane will be cut, post burning or not burnt at all.

You lose 10-15% in weight and produce by burning.

But...

You gain 20% in productivity and the ease of finding labour.

I doubt any of you have walked through 3-4 metres of cane.

It's not nice.

Its not fun.

The stuff is sharp. It scratches. it is itchy.

You need to be fully clothed up, balaclava, hat, long sleeved thick shirt, gloves trousers, wellies.

Now you burn it.

You can actually walk thru it.

You still get togged up, it is still hot, hard work, but it is much more manageable, more pleasant if that's the right word.

Generally, most times that is it.

Cane will then regrow and is normally harvested 3 times, ie 3 years, before being plowed in, and new cane grown, or something else.

Occasionally they will burn a stubble field, but rarely.

 

So yeah, the only solution is expensive state of the art machinery that no landowner can afford.

Over to you Thailand Sugar Corporation....

 

 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, thaiguzzi said:

sugarbeet

sugarcane

4m tall sugarbeet.....????

 

 

The burning of sugarcane is done at the beginning of the harvest.

It is the FIRST process, not the last.

Cane cutters are on piecemeal work, the more they cut and bundle the more they earn.

The owner of the field decides if his cane will be cut, post burning or not burnt at all.

You lose 10-15% in weight and produce by burning.

But...

You gain 20% in productivity and the ease of finding labour.

I doubt any of you have walked through 3-4 metres of cane.

It's not nice.

Its not fun.

The stuff is sharp. It scratches. it is itchy.

You need to be fully clothed up, balaclava, hat, long sleeved thick shirt, gloves trousers, wellies.

Now you burn it.

You can actually walk thru it.

You still get togged up, it is still hot, hard work, but it is much more manageable, more pleasant if that's the right word.

Generally, most times that is it.

Cane will then regrow and is normally harvested 3 times, ie 3 years, before being plowed in, and new cane grown, or something else.

Occasionally they will burn a stubble field, but rarely.

 

So yeah, the only solution is expensive state of the art machinery that no landowner can afford.

Over to you Thailand Sugar Corporation....

 

 

But the burning has to be stopped its damaging for everyone the farmers should not have the right to poison everyone else. They are already doing a good job with using too much herbicides.

 

So a solution should be found, a cooperation could be one of those solutions. Problem is that its hard to find honest people managing the cooperation who don't play favoritism and don't help their friends first. So its a hard thing to do. 

 

But in the end something has to give. And no i never walked through sugar cane, not planning on it either. I did harvest sugar beets but by hand when I was lot younger, tulip bulbs and cutting the head of tulips (the worst work you can do for your lower back). I grew up in a farming community. The farmers exploited everyone who worked for them, so I am not too fond of them. 

 

I really started to make money when i worked for the post office and in supermarkets while I continued my study, better paying jobs with a less lot hassle. I think not many Thais are willing to become farmers given the lousy money for small farmers. 

 

Maybe if the smaller farmers die off (i don't mean that literally)  and huge companies take over the burning will be less. 

 

[thaiguzzi]

36 minutes ago, fruitman said:

Exactly, they need a harvester with a plow connected so the stumbles all will get plowed under the soil.

No.

It is plowed in every 3 years.

Every season it regrows naturally.

38 minutes ago, fruitman said:

And it seems the Thai still don't understand how it's done so i suggest to hire some (farang) experts in this business to advice them.

SugarC A N E

not sugarbeet.

39 minutes ago, fruitman said:

It's 2019 now, the buffalo's can retire and let the machines take over.

Jesus wept.

The above 2 quotes just show you up in the right light again.

Mr That's not how we do it in the West.

Not a clue.

 

[Dumbastheycome]

There is a cane farmer in my village who also runs two harvesters. I am not sure he owns them or leases them annually.

These machines leave the  leaf waste well distributed as a mulch on the ground behind them which I have never seen burnt off  after.

In the first  couple of years after the  announcement by the cane Processors that they would not buy  burnt off cane this same local contractor also had two Round Balers which were as busy as his harvesters.

The scheme was that he  sold these  bails to the Sugar Company who apparently used them as fuel in the plant.

For some reason I have  not seen this  continue in the  last two years. And  there seems to be no problem in many growers selling them burned off cane again.

Burning off the  cane  for harvesting  by hand speeds up the process. Why that is said to lower the quality I do not understand. To my thinking it would  reduce the  weight to volume ratio by loss of water content which if sold by the ton is against the growers  advantage  and much to the advantage of the  Sugar Cane Companies.

Burning also  removes any humus to add to the  round, destroys any natural ecosystem and beneficial micro organisms. Most  cane fields are reduced  to sand ! Those employed  to cut by hand often succumb to respiratory ailments because of the residual carbon dust they get coated in. As do the general population who would also be grateful  for the complete and enforced  ban of burning if only to eliminate the  daily  shower of "black snow".

There is a similar problem with burning rice straw. There is no easy way to successfully return it into the soil even as output from a harvester machine because in the dry season it simply does not break down. Even if there was  many farmers would resist because they view burning as a way of cleaning the paddies. Again this depletes the soil so production and  quality has dropped incrementally because of it.

Incessantly piling on artificial fertilizers does not compensate in the longer term.

Unfortunately the majority of poor primary producers have little interest beyond the current season whatever their crop is.

 

 

 

[LennyW]

This is whats needed, with a built in chopper it breaks all the waste down and spreads it across the land.

 

[Lupatria]

2 hours ago, fruitman said:

Here these machines for sugar beets show how it's done

 

 

That would require Thailand 8.0 which is, according to the 20 year plan, scheduled for 2040. 

[DM07]

2 hours ago, Liverpudlian said:

It simply strips the dead leaves away fairly rapid thus eliminating manual labour to do the same job.

Also: ashes are a very potent fertilizer!