Well, let's just be clear here. What Gore is saying that 1) people should restrict their energy usage and 2) pay significantly more for the energy they do use. In other words, he thinks you should use far less energy and that it should cost you far more for what you do use. To be totally blunt: He wants your energy use to be expensive and rare.

Are you saying that Gore wants energy to be very expensive bacause he is very wealthy, and so, therefore will never be affected personally? ,

Ok.

Who among ye believes that the human race is capable of destroying the miracle of mother earth?

I do not. I believe mama earth is capable of sustaining herself. I believe that she will adapt to survive. I believe one such adaptation would be to change the climate so that the threat (man) can no longer live on her. Mama rocks.

so I don't think we're doing the climate change. I think she wants rid of us.

The number one factor in global warming, bar none, is the sun. When someone figures out how to control the sun, give me a shout and I assure you that I'll be all ears.

Big mirrors

Cue Montgomery Burns...

we are planet killers.

IMHO that's a little harsh. We're a far cry from the days of raw sewage and toxic pollutants being dumped into the water supply en mass, which is not to say that it is totally stopped. Many water supplies are less polluted now than they were 50 or 100 years ago. It's a proven fact that because of conservation efforts and reforestation, there is now more forestry acreage in North America than at any time in its history. Maybe Earthlings as a whole can and should do better, but characterizing entire human race as we know it as "planet killers" seems a bit extreme.

As I and others have suggested, the forces of nature are much more powerful than anything mankind can do. I remember seeing a Discovery or National Geographic show that shows the points in the ocean where highly toxic and extremely hot sulphur gases are emitted into the sea. Now if this was man-made pollution from a factory, people would be up in arms. Yet not only is this a form of "natural pollution" but nature has found a way to process it. There are creatures who have adapted to consume and live in this environment. The sheer magnitude of ocean forces act to disperse what in concentrated form would be deadly to humans. The system works!

Who among ye believes that the human race is capable of destroying the miracle of mother earth?

I do not. I believe mama earth is capable of sustaining herself. I believe that she will adapt to survive.

It's not so easy Kayo.

Look at this - World Population- :

1 AD - 150 Million

1700 - 600 Million

1800 - 900 Million

1900 - 1.6 Billion

1950 - 2.4 Billion

1985 - 5.0 Billion

July 2006 (estimated) Population: 6,525,170,264 (July 2006 est.) CIA factbook.

2020 - 8.0 Billion

http://desip.igc.org/populationmaps.html

So, in a mere 300 years (between 1700 - 2000) the world got almost 6 Billion people extra.

And, in the last 100 years (in which our children, parents and grandparents were born - just 3-4 generations!) the world grew by almost 5 Billion in population......-SCARY!-

Mother Earth is suffering!

LaoPo

Why the Gore Story Matters

So, where does Gore buy his ‘carbon offsets’? According to The Tennessean newspaper’s report, Gore buys his carbon offsets through Generation Investment Management. a company he co-founded and serves as chairman: Link

Well, let's just be clear here. What Gore is saying that 1) people should restrict their energy usage and 2) pay significantly more for the energy they do use. In other words, he thinks you should use far less energy and that it should cost you far more for what you do use. To be totally blunt: He wants your energy use to be expensive and rare.

Are you saying that Gore wants energy to be very expensive bacause he is very wealthy, and so, therefore will never be affected personally? ,

Amazing isnt it UG?

Well, Global Warming encompasses four dogmas:

1. Global temperatures are rising.

2. This is a bad thing.

3. Rising temperatures (if they exist) are caused by human industries.

4. We must place human industries under centralized control and issue production quotas to stop rising temperatures.

Note: if you can't prove Proposition #1 & #3 you must quickly move to #4.

we are planet killers.

IMHO that's a little harsh.

Maybe, but I don't think so .... you are quite right when you talk about the forces of nature and natural events (one nearly wiped out the whole human population about 70,000 years ago) ... however, man has gone way past a 'natural event' in a very short space of time, we are the ones poking a stick into the pad lom, we have created a state of imbalance in the system, and the natural system is kicking back.

I do not understand why Boon Mee or Spee try to devalue what Al Gore has highlighted. Did either of them actually watch the film?..these guys probably also think that there was never a moon landing...they just revel in contoversy and adore conspiracy theories.

Except I know that they willl always try to prove to us that black is white and we are all wrong to think otherwise.

The Inconvenient Truth is a scary movie...and was intended to be so.

Why would anyone try and decry someone for doing their best to get people to change?...anyone who lives here in Chiang Mai is only to well aware of the pollution problems we face. America also needs to clean up its act big time.

I just do not understand these guys and what their agenda is????

these guys probably also think that there was never a moon landing...they just revel in contoversy and adore conspiracy theories.

Excuse me, but, the right wing usually believe what the Government tells them and have no doubt that there was a moon landing. It is the left that always distrusts the status quo and comes up with this kind of wacky stuff.

these guys probably also think that there was never a moon landing...they just revel in contoversy and adore conspiracy theories.

Excuse me, but, the right wing usually believe what the Government tells them and have no doubt that there was a moon landing. It is the left that always distrusts the status quo and comes up with this kind of wacky stuff.

Absolutley no need to ecuse yourself UG

But whats your point here?

Right wing left wing...as far as i am concerned they are positions on a football (sorry Soccer) field.

I have absolutley NO INTEREST in politics...but I am interested in the future of OUR HOME

But whats your point here?

I just thought it was strange that you would accuse Boon Mee and Spee of "thinking that there was never a moon landing and adoring conspiracy theories", when they think just the opposite. This is the kind of thing that they constantly argue against.

What a bunch of ar5e !

I cannot understand these right wing loonies who try to convince themselves and everyone else that 10 million+ cow farts a day and thousands of chimneys belching out CO2, H2S, etc has NO effect on our planet.

I wonder what they would say if Dubbya said it ?

Do not despair. Our Canuck friends have put their best man on it:

http://www.yahoo.com/s/521317

Speaking for myself, I much prefer the use of Mr Peabody's "way back" machine, so we could nip this thing in the bud.

What a bunch of ar5e !

I cannot understand these right wing loonies who try to convince themselves and everyone else that 10 million+ cow farts a day and thousands of chimneys belching out CO2, H2S, etc has NO effect on our planet.

I wonder what they would say if Dubbya said it ?

While I was doing some research for a friend the other day, I found a website advocating that we all turn vegetarian, kill and bury all the livestock on earth, as the methane they produce is the number one cause of global warming.

Methane is a contributory factor, C02 emissions are.... however, the number one factor is ..... it's natural, it's been happening for millions of years and will continue to do so for millions of years to come if we are still here or not.

I've said this before, maybe we have speeded up the process a little bit, but in geological terms you would need a stop-watch to measure it...... one thing we can't do is stop it, or even slow it down.

P.S. Someone mentioned about the sun being the primary cause, way off the mark, the sun has been expanding since it was born and will continue to do so until it goes nova or collapses under its own weight, either event would not be pleasant to be around, but it will be a very long time before any change in the sun causes any measurable effect on Earth.

Look at the graph I produced earlier, the sun has been getting larger and hotter for the entire time-line of that chart, is the line a linear curve upwards even if you plot a line through the average, no it isn't, the average highs and the average lows have cycled since the pre-cambrian period.

Grab a cold beer, turn on the air-con and put on a good movie. Because there is naff all that you, I or any national policy is going to change matters.

P.P.S .... I'm not giving up bacon..... ever ....

P.S. Someone mentioned about the sun being the primary cause, way off the mark, the sun has been expanding since it was born and will continue to do so until it goes nova or collapses under its own weight, either event would not be pleasant to be around, but it will be a very long time before any change in the sun causes any measurable effect on Earth.

Well, I guess the scientists who wrote for National Geographic got it all wrong then? And, the graph posted in #51 of this thread has no bearing on earth warming?

Anyhow, climate change is a modern-day equivalent of class struggle. Global Warming is an easily understood, historically inevitable concept in Marxist Science designed to help the Party to crush capitalism and fulfill mankind's utmost desire to redistribute wealth and establish a centralized global government with an army of enlightened bureaucrats running a planned global economy based on world-wide quotas and five-year plans.

P.S. Someone mentioned about the sun being the primary cause, way off the mark, the sun has been expanding since it was born and will continue to do so until it goes nova or collapses under its own weight, either event would not be pleasant to be around, but it will be a very long time before any change in the sun causes any measurable effect on Earth.

Well, I guess the scientists who wrote for National Geographic got it all wrong then? And, the graph posted in #51 of this thread has no bearing on earth warming?

Sorry Boon, but the graph you posted only spans 120 years, hardly a good reference for climate change, "it's feels hot this year doesn't it darling, yes but last winter was cold" .... you cannot measure climate change in that small a space of time.

And as for.

Anyhow, climate change is a modern-day equivalent of class struggle. Global Warming is an easily understood, historically inevitable concept in Marxist Science designed to help the Party to crush capitalism and fulfill mankind's utmost desire to redistribute wealth and establish a centralized global government with an army of enlightened bureaucrats running a planned global economy based on world-wide quotas and five-year plans.

Good boy, stick to that stuff ..... here... have a biscuit.

Well, as you know, many people have difficulty with things like driving directions, balancing a checking account, and releasing the "Caps Lock" key. And yet, after watching his film "An Inconvenient Truth," they all figured out Global Warming just as easily as they had figured out the Iraq war after watching Michael Moore's Oscar-winning "Fahrenheit 9/11."

This, and many other Global Warming trivia you will find in Gore’s new book which he will be selling in the lobby right after his next speech, so you better start forming a line now. Get used to standing in lines, comrades, because when his plan for the future is implemented, lines and ration coupons will become a national pastime for non-Party members. In an easy, accessible format, his book will explain why, unless you appoint him the next President of Earth, you and your pets will all die a horrible death when this planet blows up.

The book consists of the following chapters:

1. How we're all doomed and the planet is going to blow up.

2. How stopping Wal-Mart can help the polar bears.

3. How higher taxes can help the polar bears.

4. How fairness doctrine can help the polar bears.

5. How higher unemployment is linked to cleaner air quality.

6. How poor impoverished countries like to stay that way.

7. How the printing of Bibles destroys millions of trees every year.

8. How to spot heretic scientists and other Global Warming deniers.

9. How to report Global Warming deniers to the authorities.

10. How greenhouse gases should be renamed so as not to offended the green party activists, people that don't live in houses, and anyone whose last name happens to be Greenhouse. And so on...

Boon Mee or Spee .... these guys probably also think that there was never a moon landing...

You guys kill me with these wacky assumptions. Well, let's think about the facts for a second.

- I used to work in the space business.

- I've been inside a space shuttle on the top of the pad, and watched one launch in person.

- I've worked with a couple dozen astronauts from 6 or 7 different countries on several shuttle missions.

- One of my ex-bosses was one of the 3 Apollo 13 astronauts and I heard "THE" story first hand from him over lunch, years before the movie came out.

Of course I would believe the moon landing was a hoax. ROTFLMAO!

The Inconvenient Truth is a scary movie...and was intended to be so.

So was the original Frankenstein, but that doesn't make it a work of fact.

Al Gore himself has admitted in several interviews that it is perfectly okay to stretch the truth to scare people into believing someone's way of thinking. Are you honestly going to tell me that you or anyone should trust someone who has stated that it's ok to lie to change people's minds?

I've watched two really really BAD movies in my life. One was "Death of a President" and the other was "Fahrenheit 9/11." The fact that I may think they were in poor taste is irrelevant. They were just bad movies, poorly written and poorly done.

I'll eventually watch the Gore work of fiction and I'd guess there is a reasonable chance my list of really BAD movies will grow to three.

10. How greenhouse gases should be renamed ....

"Greenhouse Gas" - probably the most misunderstood and misinterpreted phrase of recent memory.

The number one "greenhouse gas" is .............................................................

..

..

..

..

..

..

drum roll please ........................................

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

water vapor.

Yep, that's right. Good ol' H2O in its gaseous state is by far the largest greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, by scientists' own words.

http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/gases.html#wv

But what the heck are humans going to do? Try to control rain and evaporation? That is the very thing that mother nature uses to take a bath and clean and filter the air. Why would anyone in their right mind want to mess with that? Why would anyone be arrogant enough to think that they could in any significant way?

Al Gore himself has admitted in several interviews that it is perfectly okay to stretch the truth to scare people into believing someone's way of thinking. Are you honestly going to tell me that you or anyone should trust someone who has stated that it's ok to lie to change people's minds?

Mmm WMD , bin Laden in Iraq comes to mind. At least Gore fessed up

I've watched two really really BAD movies in my life. One was "Death of a President" and the other was "Fahrenheit 9/11." The fact that I may think they were in poor taste is irrelevant. They were just bad movies, poorly written and poorly done.

I'll eventually watch the Gore work of fiction and I'd guess there is a reasonable chance my list of really BAD movies will grow to three.

If "Death of a President" is the Costner/Kennedy thing that was a bad and confused movie

(excuse my confusion/ignorance if it was not) but F 9/11 was rough but entertaining. And

if you've only seen 2 bad movies in your life you are really blessed or is your judgement

purely idealogical?

My eldest mailed me (a while ago) a Crichton novel (think it was something like "State

of Fear" - presume "Climate of Fear" was taken) and it was intersting on two counts.

First count being the initial theme was about induced tsunamis and the lad knows I was in

Patong on a certain 26 Dec. The second was the "global warning" industry and the point

that if you ask two scientists about the subject you are likely to get four opinions.

However a political knee-jerk reaction to these "industry" people should not make a

thinking person totally hostile to anybody who advocates a little more concern for the

environment. Nobody is asking you to love the Gores of this world. Nobody is asking

you to hug a tree (a squirrel would probably bite your nuts). But it's getting crowded

down here. Time to stop shitting where we eat ?

"All right, then. Eight more trees and Camilla and I will have enough greenhouse gas off-sets for dinner at Taco Bell."

Mt. St. Helens: May 18, 1980 was the day that produced more "greenhouse gasses" than any single event in human history.

In that 24-hour period, more toxic pollutants were spewed into the Earth's biosphere than any single day, week, month or year before or since.

should not make a thinking person totally hostile to anybody who advocates a little more concern for the

environment.

Again with the assumptions. Because one may disklike and disagree with Gore's manipulation of the general public, you assume that they are incapable of caring about ecology, conservation and pollution.

Nobody is asking you to love the Gores of this world.

Never could come close under any circumstances. A very close friend was on his planned White House transition team, had he actually been inaugurated. I've heard more about him (and his wife) than I ever wanted to know. He is by far, much scarier than anything in his recent work of fiction.

Well, as you know, many people have difficulty with things like driving directions, balancing a checking account, and releasing the "Caps Lock" key. And yet, after watching his film "An Inconvenient Truth," they all figured out Global Warming just as easily as they had figured out the Iraq war after watching Michael Moore's Oscar-winning "Fahrenheit 9/11."

This, and many other Global Warming trivia you will find in Gore’s new book which he will be selling in the lobby right after his next speech, so you better start forming a line now. Get used to standing in lines, comrades, because when his plan for the future is implemented, lines and ration coupons will become a national pastime for non-Party members. In an easy, accessible format, his book will explain why, unless you appoint him the next President of Earth, you and your pets will all die a horrible death when this planet blows up.

The book consists of the following chapters:

1. How we're all doomed and the planet is going to blow up.

2. How stopping Wal-Mart can help the polar bears.

3. How higher taxes can help the polar bears.

4. How fairness doctrine can help the polar bears.

5. How higher unemployment is linked to cleaner air quality.

6. How poor impoverished countries like to stay that way.

7. How the printing of Bibles destroys millions of trees every year.

8. How to spot heretic scientists and other Global Warming deniers.

9. How to report Global Warming deniers to the authorities.

10. How greenhouse gases should be renamed so as not to offended the green party activists, people that don't live in houses, and anyone whose last name happens to be Greenhouse. And so on...

Well, this just in. Another scientist in a long row of scientists points out, helpfully, that in spite of the absence of SUVs on Mars, the polar icecaps there seem to be melting at an alarming rate. Those darn 'ol gas-guzzling, CO2-pumping Mars Rovers!

In that 24-hour period, more toxic pollutants were spewed into the Earth's biosphere

With advances in technology, scientists have been able to analyze massive volcanic effluents in more detail, as evidenced in the case of Mt. Pinatubo in 1991. There is substantial scientific evidence to suggest that this single event affected the Earth's climate for more than 10 years, if not to the present.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/t.../0306aopin.html

http://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/stories/pinatubo_...618/images.html

http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/view_set.php?...Id=4001&p=1

There was a shuttle mission at the time of this event. The effluent plume was so dense and so large that it could be seen for thousands of miles, almost all the way to Hawaii (and that's just the visible part, from 180 miles up).

Science fact v. science fiction. You be the judge.

The liberal and conservative arguments are remarkably similar. One says its the govts and corporations fault, the other says its the commies fault. They both argue we are being victimized by something other than ourselves. The liberals did the same thing with obesity in "Supersize Me" - it's all McDonalds fault that I can't see my genitalia anymore. Can't there be a middle way that promotes personal responsibility and personal action and makes it all seem fun instead of dreadful and apocalyptic? Eat moderately and walk around a bit more and by golly the world will seem a little friendlier. The Michael Moore's and the Rush Limbaugh's and the Al Gore's at some point will realize its not the commies and the corporations that are killing them and many other people - its the calories and the sloth!

Don't forget the series of eruptions on Montserrat.

Don't forget the series of eruptions on Montserrat.

That looks like a Dr Who episode gone wrong.