buying a house (land hers, house mine)

[Ready 2 Retire]

G'day guys,

 

we found a house in hua hin we would like to buy. I'm aware of the pits of not owning the land and all. I am ater some other information and hope someone can help.

 

1. my money is in australia, i'm in thailand for another 2 weeks. can i transfer it to my wife's account? is it best if i open a thai bank account? (does anyone know if i can wire it from here? or do i have to go to a branch in oz?, i believe i can paypal it across)

2. can i opt for a long settlement? is it done here? i'm thinking 3months.

3. is there a container storage solution in hua hin? i need to go back to australia to send personal effects and prepare my house for rental. the stuff would be in storage until i get a chance to build a bungalow/storage room in the backyard.

4. can i modify a projects house? eg. add a room/add storage room easily? i'm referring to the closed security house developments. everything looks the same that's why i'm asking.

5. are there any scams going on with these housing developments? (apart from the 3000b p/m maintenance)

 

thx guys, should i usurfruct or own the house on wife's land? (i dont understand how it would be different for me)

[Crossy]

I can answer some of these, others will be along with better answers.

 

1. It depends upon your bank whether you can set-up an international transfer on-line. Talk to them. Always best to have your own account (but can be fun to set up), but should be no issue transferring to your wife's account.

 

2. I had to Google for this. Do you really need the time, any delay (with a deposit paid) would be entirely up to the vendor and of course gazumping is not unheard of.

 

3. No idea.

 

4. Again it depends, older developments seem to be less picky about external changes, sheds, car-ports etc. Ask the development management.

 

5. I can't comment on 3k per month maintenance as we're not on a development, does seem a bit steep but it depends what it covers (pool, gym, gardens etc.). For contrast we pay 350 Baht a YEAR to the local village office which covers bins twice a week, street lighting, village loudspeakers, nice plants outside the office etc. etc.

 

Since it's a pre-built home it may not be possible to separate the house from the land. It also depends upon the ownership mechanism, is it a separate chanote (deed) for each plot or are the plots all leased from the developer (sometimes done to allow foreign "ownership" of houses).

 

We did look at a couple of developments but in the end opted for buying some land (1.5 Rai about 2,400m²) and building our own home. Design by Wifey "I like that" (points at old teak house), engineering by me (adapted from a free government plan), construction by a recommended local contractor (who is still a friend).

 

Came out OK. Photo about 3 years ago, you can't see the house from that point now, trees grow very fast here ????

 

[neeray]

Scary ! OP, you seem to be rushing into this. Haste makes waste. Can you slow it down a bit for safety's sake? Remember TIT.

[Ready 2 Retire]

thanks for the replies guys ???? it's true i'm kinda rushing it a bit. i've been coming to thailand for 5 years, moving here has been a dream for a while though. i'm kinda sick of the rat race in melbourne, ready to retire!!

(i sold one house from the overpriced australian market and with that money i'd buy here. i also have another positevly geared house to lease out to pay for bills).

the 3k pm is for gym, pool, security guard and bins i believe. 300 a year sounds a whole lot better!! ???? we're off to see some other houses this arvo. thx again all.

[jackdd]

A usufruct with your wife is worthless by Thai law.

If you buy a house and put it in your wife's name you can see it as a present to her.

In case of a divorce you are entitled to 50% of it, but if you will ever get this...

 

The imho best idea for anybody with a wife who wants to buy a house:

The wife takes a loan from a bank to buy the house. You just pay the monthly rates. This is then as if you were renting a house, if you break up you just walk away from it. If you are still together after the loan is paid off you can stay rent free ????

[mike787]

OP.  You have 2 choices that I can see: 1. listen to good advice. 2. Do as you please and DO NOT listen to good advice.  The choice is yours, choose wisely and good luck in all your endeavors.

[watcharacters]

4 hours ago, Crossy said:

I can answer some of these, others will be along with better answers.

 

1. It depends upon your bank whether you can set-up an international transfer on-line. Talk to them. Always best to have your own account (but can be fun to set up), but should be no issue transferring to your wife's account.

 

2. I had to Google for this. Do you really need the time, any delay (with a deposit paid) would be entirely up to the vendor and of course gazumping is not unheard of.

 

3. No idea.

 

4. Again it depends, older developments seem to be less picky about external changes, sheds, car-ports etc. Ask the development management.

 

5. I can't comment on 3k per month maintenance as we're not on a development, does seem a bit steep but it depends what it covers (pool, gym, gardens etc.). For contrast we pay 350 Baht a YEAR to the local village office which covers bins twice a week, street lighting, village loudspeakers, nice plants outside the office etc. etc.

 

Since it's a pre-built home it may not be possible to separate the house from the land. It also depends upon the ownership mechanism, is it a separate chanote (deed) for each plot or are the plots all leased from the developer (sometimes done to allow foreign "ownership" of houses).

 

We did look at a couple of developments but in the end opted for buying some land (1.5 Rai about 2,400m²) and building our own home. Design by Wifey "I like that" (points at old teak house), engineering by me (adapted from a free government plan), construction by a recommended local contractor (who is still a friend).

 

Came out OK. Photo about 3 years ago, you can't see the house from that point now, trees grow very fast here ????

 

 

 

 

That's a top shelf looking house.   Would you be comfortable to  give a few other details?    Size, rooms, Kitchen and etc.   

 

Maybe even an interior pic or two?

 

TIA

 

 

[watcharacters]

15 minutes ago, jackdd said:

A usufruct with your wife is worthless by Thai law.

If you buy a house and put it in your wife's name you can see it as a present to her.

In case of a divorce you are entitled to 50% of it, but if you will ever get this...

 

The imho best idea for anybody with a wife who wants to buy a house: 

The wife takes a loan from a bank to buy the house. You just pay the monthly rates. This is then as if you were renting a house, if you break up you just walk away from it. If you are still together after the loan is paid off you can stay rent free ????

 

"The wife takes a loan from a bank to buy the house."

 

Ok,  but that eliminates 90% of the ladies in Thailand since they won't have the qualifications to borrow  from the bank on their own.   In theory, however, I think you have a great idea.

[Crossy]

27 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

That's a top shelf looking house.   Would you be comfortable to  give a few other details?    Size, rooms, Kitchen and etc.   

Maybe even an interior pic or two?

The gory details are in this thread, rather than go off-topic on this one I'll see if I can un-archive it.

 

EDIT This particular post should help with layout etc. https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/481794-housebuilding-thread/?do=findComment&comment=4640364

 

 

[ebean001]

A usufruct with your wife is worthless by Thai law.

 

hummmm. It has worked will for me. I have total control of the house. I rented the house to other people. no problem. The only problem is I cannot sell the house without her signature...and that will cost me a ton of money.

[guest879]

20 hours ago, Ready 2 Retire said:

thanks for the replies guys ???? it's true i'm kinda rushing it a bit. i've been coming to thailand for 5 years, moving here has been a dream for a while though. i'm kinda sick of the rat race in melbourne, ready to retire!!

(i sold one house from the overpriced australian market and with that money i'd buy here. i also have another positevly geared house to lease out to pay for bills).

the 3k pm is for gym, pool, security guard and bins i believe. 300 a year sounds a whole lot better!! ???? we're off to see some other houses this arvo. thx again all.

please just rent for a year first, or maybe 5 years. I got sick of Thailand after 6 years but was stuck for several years selling my 2 houses. that's how long it took just to find another sucker to buy my houses to get my money back.

[jesimps]

Not trying to be funny here but the thread title should be "Land hers, house hers". I bought my place in the wife's name, but even if I hadn't, I know I'd have a hell of a job trying to sell up if it came to it. On the odd occasion I've mentioned it as a contingency plan, she just goes into ignore mode.

[baansgr]

1 hour ago, ebean001 said:

A usufruct with your wife is worthless by Thai law.

 

hummmm. It has worked will for me. I have total control of the house. I rented the house to other people. no problem. The only problem is I cannot sell the house without her signature...and that will cost me a ton of money.

In one paragraph  you quote you have total control yet then quote you can't sell the house....

[petermik]

I had a house built on my TGf,s land 4 years ago cost was 1.3 mil baht....I went into the venture with eyes wide open knowing full well I would never get any money back if the relationship turned sour,no matter what the law here says,so my advice is simple...do not spend any money here that you are not prepared to walk away from later

[MikeN]

Re #1, if you have online banking already you should be able to do internet transfer to Thailand, but there is usually a $10,000 limit per transaction so you may have to do several transfers. I can do it through Westpac at $5 a time but some banks charge much more per transaction. You could also just go into the branch when you get home and do one transaction for the whole amount, from memory that cost $30 many years ago. Just make sure you have the correct SWIFT code and account numbers whichever way you do it !

 Probably best to transfer it into an account here in your name, slightly less chance of questions being asked or flags raised in Aus because of anti money laundering and support of terrorism regulations. BUT that may involve jumping through hoops here depending on your visa status ?

 Whatever you do, send it in Australian dollars not baht and let the bank here convert it.

 As for #4, a friend lives on one of those gated communities in Hua Hin and he has put a “removable “ shed in his back yard, but cannot make any permanent alteration to the property.

[GalaxyMan]

17 hours ago, jackdd said:

A usufruct with your wife is worthless by Thai law.

Does that apply when the usufruct was done before getting married?

[lanng khao]

17 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

 

That's a top shelf looking house.   Would you be comfortable to  give a few other details?    Size, rooms, Kitchen and etc.   

 

Maybe even an interior pic or two?

 

TIA

 

 

Iv got one very similar..????

[golfpro47]

1 hour ago, MikeN said:

Re #1, if you have online banking already you should be able to do internet transfer to Thailand, but there is usually a $10,000 limit per transaction so you may have to do several transfers. I can do it through Westpac at $5 a time but some banks charge much more per transaction. You could also just go into the branch when you get home and do one transaction for the whole amount, from memory that cost $30 many years ago. Just make sure you have the correct SWIFT code and account numbers whichever way you do it !

 Probably best to transfer it into an account here in your name, slightly less chance of questions being asked or flags raised in Aus because of anti money laundering and support of terrorism regulations. BUT that may involve jumping through hoops here depending on your visa status ?

 Whatever you do, send it in Australian dollars not baht and let the bank here convert it.

 As for #4, a friend lives on one of those gated communities in Hua Hin and he has put a “removable “ shed in his back yard, but cannot make any permanent alteration to the property.

When I bought my first House I transfered 30,000GBP in one go  never had a problem. 

[Wake Up]

1 hour ago, GalaxyMan said:

Does that apply when the usufruct was done before getting married?

No.  Before marriage is best and enforceable after divorce. 

 

OP when you marry then leases and agreements between husband and wife can be voided or extinguished upon divorce. That is why you do this before getting married. 

 

Seek the advice of a good lawyer. I don’t know one in Hua Hin but know of two good lawyers in Khon Kaen. Good lawyers in Thailand exist even though some posters claim they do not. 

 

I have been where you are - excited and feeling like the world is great and an adventure. In love with a woman and Thailand and moving. Please rent for at least a year. When you travel Thailand all over you might find another place you love more. Not necessarily but you might. You may also decide to leave Thailand or live here until you die. Right now you don’t know. 

 

Buying is the easy part, selling is the hard part. Renting is always easy and when you find the place you love then buy if you want. And by then you will have lived in Thailand a while and be a lot smarter than you are now. That is not an insult to you but living here is different than traveling here for 5 years. You have never lived here yet.  Living here is much different than vacationing here in ways you may love or dislike. Please enjoy but slow down and take a deep breath and rent. If you have a good wife she will understand. If she pressures to buy now to keep her happy then not a good sign for your marriage. 

 

 

[golfpro47]

2 hours ago, jesimps said:

Not trying to be funny here but the thread title should be "Land hers, house hers". I bought my place in the wife's name, but even if I hadn't, I know I'd have a hell of a job trying to sell up if it came to it. On the odd occasion I've mentioned it as a contingency plan, she just goes into ignore mode.

 After splitting up with my girlfriend I started making moves to get my House back,the House and land were in her name.

After suffering from all the Doomsday know all’s that I had no chance of getting my House back I visited a Solicitor explained everything to him and he was happy to take the Case on.

To cut a long story short after just under a Year at our final Court appearance I was awarded the House but as in Thai Law I could not have the Land in my name,we retired to the Chambers the Judge,Solicitor,Translator and the Thai Manager of the Village I lived in,after discussing this for a while the Land was put in the Village Managers name and the House in my name and this ended in a satisfactory result for me.

[Wake Up]

12 minutes ago, golfpro47 said:

 After splitting up with my girlfriend I started making moves to get my House back,the House and land were in her name.

After suffering from all the Doomsday know all’s that I had no chance of getting my House back I visited a Solicitor explained everything to him and he was happy to take the Case on.

To cut a long story short after just under a Year at our final Court appearance I was awarded the House but as in Thai Law I could not have the Land in my name,we retired to the Chambers the Judge,Solicitor,Translator and the Thai Manager of the Village I lived in,after discussing this for a while the Land was put in the Village Managers name and the House in my name and this ended in a satisfactory result for me.

Happy for you. You must have a good Thai Village Chief. But OP is in Hua Hin not a villlage. IMO your experience is not the majority experience so IMO your advice is misleading to the OP who knows nothing about Thailand culture and law. If he expects your one experience to be the norm then you have done the OP a disservice IMO. 

[Thailand]

30+ year lease from wife. You have the right to transfer to whomever or initially add a younger person to the lease so in the event of your death they would retain the rights. Other benefits of the " lease" sytem, consult a lawyer.

In the event of your wife's death I believe that there should be a codicil in her will that whomever she has bequeathed the property to (in case it's no you) has to honour the lease.

Again, consult a lawyer.

[travelerjim]

23 hours ago, Ready 2 Retire said:

thanks for the replies guys ???? it's true i'm kinda rushing it a bit. i've been coming to thailand for 5 years, moving here has been a dream for a while though. i'm kinda sick of the rat race in melbourne, ready to retire!!

(i sold one house from the overpriced australian market and with that money i'd buy here. i also have another positevly geared house to lease out to pay for bills).

the 3k pm is for gym, pool, security guard and bins i believe. 300 a year sounds a whole lot better!! ???? we're off to see some other houses this arvo. thx again all.

May I strongly suggest you lease a house...not buy. Keep your money in AU. Housing is cheap in Thailand to lease...plenty of availability. Gives you freedom. Get your O-A retirement visa in AU. Easy to do. No need to have 800,000 Thai baht tied up in Thai bank..

[The Theory]

On 2/19/2019 at 11:06 AM, Ready 2 Retire said:

can i transfer it to my wife's account? is it best if i open a thai bank account?

 Isn’t it called “Money laundering” in OZ , if your marriage is not registered ?

Be careful with what you do.

[khunPer]

On 2/19/2019 at 5:06 AM, Ready 2 Retire said:

thx guys, should i usurfruct or own the house on wife's land? (i dont understand how it would be different for me)

It's correct that a foreigner legally can own a house, but not the land under the house; however it's not easy – if possible at all – to separate a house from the land, if not separated from the beginning.

 

First thing you should do is to check with the developer, if the house is totally separated ownership from the land. Upon registration at Land Department you might be able to be registered owner of the house only, when it's re-sold secondhand (first hand owner cannot be registered).

 

You should contact an experienced real estate local law firm – local law firm, so they know how the local land office is expected to handle it, as it might be different in various provinces – and clear you legal possibilities.

 

You can to my knowledge not use a usufruct, which is an agreement for the use of the land, but you might be able to get a superficies, which allow you to build and own a house on someone's land.

 

If you cannot legally separate the house from the land, the only legal option to my knowledge is either a usufruct – if granted by the land office, and being aware of legality of contracts between husband and wife in case of divorce, where you anyway might be granted 50% of the property – or a 30-year lease, which will be taxed with around 1% of the total lease value upon registration; you might anyway prepay the lease with the money used for buying the property.

 

Concerning your questions.

1) Transfer

If you transfer more than the equivalent of US$50,000 you should do it to your own account, register the transfer with the National Bank, and keep the receipt of the registration, as that will allow you to transfer similar amount of out Thailand, should it ever be needed (someone might be helpful with correct name of the form, I forgot it).

 

2)Long term settlement

Presume you mean payment for the property? Normally property sale in Thailand works with a sales contract, and an agreed irrevocable cash deposit, and a term for final settlement, which can be several month later, and takes place upon transfer of title deed at the land office; you might sometime see big cash change hand there.

 

4) Modify project house

Check everything with small prints in the agreement. Some projects don't allow any modification, even paint color. Eventually have it written in the sales contract, that you are permitted to do modifications, which could also be specified.

 

5) Scams with housing developments

Yes, some places there are scams, but they might be rare, even there are some horrible facts and stories available. Check the Internet (Google search), and talk to other owners in the projects. Also check if you can buy water and electricity directly from source, or it shall be via the developer only (should not be legal to overcharge anymore, but one never knows).

????

[MikeN]

1 hour ago, golfpro47 said:

When I bought my first House I transfered 30,000GBP in one go  never had a problem. 

That may well have been the case for you then, but I think 50,000 $AU is the trigger amount for AUSTRAC nowadays. I think I remember seeing that figure somewhere, but could be wrong.

 

 “imposing a number of obligations on the financial sector, gambling sector, remittance (money transfer) services, bullion dealers and other professionals or businesses (known as ‘reporting entities’) that provide particular services (known as ‘designated services’). These obligations include collecting and verifying certain ‘know your customer’ (KYC) information about a customer's identity when providing those services.”

$50,000 of overseas assets is also the point where you ( Aussies) are supposed to tell the taxman, I don’t know how much communication there is between AUSTRAC and the ATO regarding possible money laundering or tax evasion.

 But getting off topic now ........

[bastco]

After splitting up with my girlfriend I started making moves to get my House back,the House and land were in her name.

After suffering from all the Doomsday know all’s that I had no chance of getting my House back I visited a Solicitor explained everything to him and he was happy to take the Case on.

To cut a long story short after just under a Year at our final Court appearance I was awarded the House but as in Thai Law I could not have the Land in my name,we retired to the Chambers the Judge,Solicitor,Translator and the Thai Manager of the Village I lived in,after discussing this for a while the Land was put in the Village Managers name and the House in my name and this ended in a satisfactory result for me.

 

Would you please supply the name and contact details of your solicitor.

[Jen65]

strange how few people know there is a form available at the land office which should be completed when you and your partner/wife buy land and a house together with you as a farang funding the purchase and you want to ensure you will never be "locked out "  !     The form , signed by both of you , gives you the right of entry / occupation for whatever duration you specify or until you die or until you rescind your rights !   It costs a few hundred baht - simple and economical !! No need for expensive lawyers !!   Your wife/ partner/other half can not dispose of the property and can not refuse you entry .  

[davidst01]

My best advice is dont buy in one of the thai housing villages where all the houses are close together and look identical. If your neighbours are inconsiderate it will be hell. Barking dogs are common in these situations. The middle class thais that live in those villages are mostly inconsiderate <deleted>. Rent instead! See if your wife still loves you without buying her anything. its called true love. I tested mine for 4 yrs before jumping in

[davidst01]

22 hours ago, golfpro47 said:

 After splitting up with my girlfriend I started making moves to get my House back,the House and land were in her name.

After suffering from all the Doomsday know all’s that I had no chance of getting my House back I visited a Solicitor explained everything to him and he was happy to take the Case on.

To cut a long story short after just under a Year at our final Court appearance I was awarded the House but as in Thai Law I could not have the Land in my name,we retired to the Chambers the Judge,Solicitor,Translator and the Thai Manager of the Village I lived in,after discussing this for a while the Land was put in the Village Managers name and the House in my name and this ended in a satisfactory result for me.

ha ha. im sure the 'village manager' is more than happy. who wouldnt be....  Interested to know how that ends up for you well down the track