Solar power is it worth it

[sawadee1947]

On 2/21/2019 at 1:15 PM, CharlieH said:

Someone I know who lives near, spent a large amount of money on an entire roof full of approx 2ft x 4ft panels, I wont go through the whole story but the bottom line.

It never worked, wasnt installed right, never had the agreements or connection to the "grid" promised , they didnt even exist and werent allowed either. All the promises turned to sh** and it was a complete con job, he got taken for a ride. He took them to court, got 300k judgement but has never been able to collect and now has, as last I knew, a shed full of around 40+ unused German solar panels.

At least he bought high quality panels..... ????

[KittenKong]

4 hours ago, shy coconut said:

I'm surprised that you encounter any Thais at all given that you cocoon yourself in your

Jomtien flat, or drive around in your car to avoid contact with the odious locals.

 

How on earth would you conclude that "most Thais" behave in any particular manner?

I really dont need to drive or walk very far to see the results of penny-pinching and corner-cutting here. In fact I can clearly see it from my balcony, and also when "technicians" call to do things in my condo.

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, Enki said:

And no, they don't put off buyers, or the house market in Germany ha collapsed ...

Perhaps in Germany, but the question was about installing solar panels in Thailand, and that might be more different, than same-same...????

[Beatriz]

A friend of mine built a home-made water heater but it is not solar panel system. He just made use of the energy from the sun. He had these water pipes all painted black to absorb heat and these pipes run up and down like the car (old car system)cooling system. He also install mirrors that will reflect the sun light onto those pipes. Of course on raining day ( long hours of rain) then no hot water.

Well, he get hot water during the day and warm water at night. In the morning the water is not cold just normal room temperature. I quite like the idea.

Anyone seen this kind of home-made water heating system?

[sandrabbit]

I'm not convinced about solar electricity but I am convinced about solar heating of water, it's too efficient and our high temp safety valve opens almost every day if we don't use enough hot water. The other thing to consider is where you live, I just did a quick search and this is the best map I could come up with in the short time about Global horizontal irradiation (never knew it was called that till I found this article).

 

https://www.solaris.co.th/25-english/news/99-solar-gis-map-for-thailand

 

The other thing to consider is wind power, you can get a 10KW wind generator for a reasonable price (as compares a solar setup) and here on the coast in Rayong we get a fairly consistent wind from the south. I can't give websites about prices as I haven't looked for about 5 years but there is plenty to chew if you spend a bit of time with google.

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

4 minutes ago, Beatriz said:

A friend of mine built a home-made water heater but it is not solar panel system. He just made use of the energy from the sun. He had these water pipes all painted black to absorb heat and these pipes run up and down like the car (old car system)cooling system. He also install mirrors that will reflect the sun light onto those pipes. Of course on raining day ( long hours of rain) then no hot water.

Well, he get hot water during the day and warm water at night. In the morning the water is not cold just normal room temperature. I quite like the idea.

Anyone seen this kind of home-made water heating system?

There is a very interesting installation in Kathmandu that uses a coil feeding into an insulated tank

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qe7ZZKCApFk&t=2s

[sandrabbit]

4 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

There is a very interesting installation in Kathmandu that uses a coil feeding into an insulated tank

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qe7ZZKCApFk&t=2s

just leave the hosepipe in the sun to see what can be done cheaply but it will break down with the UV from the sun.

[sometimewoodworker]

17 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

just leave the hosepipe in the sun to see what can be done cheaply but it will break down with the UV from the sun.

Really? So far my LDPE pipes are about 7 years in the sun now.

[oldhippy]

18 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

just leave the hosepipe in the sun to see what can be done cheaply but it will break down with the UV from the sun.

I remember nice hot showers in the Himalayas at 4.000 meters altitude.

They used the same system - I do not know how long it lasted with the UV, but these pipes are cheap.

[rickudon]

The Thai government and PEA does nothing to encourage solar power (unless you are a big company producing commercial amounts of electricity) and getting grid tie permission difficult and expensive. Actual costs of most solar equipment not to bad (some is zero rated for import duty) but if you want a proper system setup for you the installation cost is astronomical (as much as in the UK, but without any subsidies). You need to do it yourself.  Batteries are expensive and due to the heat do not last as long as in a more temperate climate. 

 

Yes, compared to getting electric from the PEA itis more expensive, but i know 2 people who have solar powered homes because they are in remote locations and a connection was too expensive. Do not expect to be able to run aircon all day!

 

If you do go solar, you have to collect as much power as your system can supply, and use it. Otherwise you will just not get a reasonable return on investment. If you can supply your base, all daytime needs via solar, and just top up from the PEA for the less frequently used appliances, it might make economic sense in the long run. 

 

 Also consider power cuts, A generator is expensive, needs fuel and regular maintenance, even if not used.

 

Had a 4 day power outage after a major storm in Udon brought down power poles. Had to stay in a hotel for 3 days (me, wife and daughter). Rest of the family huddled around my 1 watt solar powered light in the evenings (it also would charge mobile phones). Before that they laughed at my 'toy', but not afterwards! I bought another so would always have a spare. Also then bought a deep cycle battery, solar panel, charge controller, solar light and dc fan. Cost about 3,500 baht. Only used in emergency about once a year but useful for outdoor events as well when they cannot find enough extension leads.

 

Solar power may not make economic sense in Thailand, but if used intelligently, has it's place.

[snowgard]

Maybe no one know that they can sell the not needed power to the electric companies. This make the return on investment much more smaller. But again, if no one know it ....

https://www.solaris.co.th/25-english/news/178-households-allowed-to-sell-solar-power

 

[rickudon]

3 minutes ago, snowgard said:

Maybe no one know that they can sell the not needed power to the electric companies. This make the return on investment much more smaller. But again, if no one know it ....

https://www.solaris.co.th/25-english/news/178-households-allowed-to-sell-solar-power

 

Yes, but what the law implies and what you can actually do are somewhat different ..... First your installation has to be 'approved', metered and licenced (at some cost) and come within the allowed quota (I think it was about 100 KW for the whole of Udon Thani province 2 years ago!). In reality home users selling there surplus would take 50 years to get there money back from that approval process ..... It was really aimed at small industrial units. Rest is just bullshit to fob off the greens.

[Mitker]

4 hours ago, Beatriz said:

A friend of mine built a home-made water heater but it is not solar panel system. He just made use of the energy from the sun. He had these water pipes all painted black to absorb heat and these pipes run up and down like the car (old car system)cooling system. He also install mirrors that will reflect the sun light onto those pipes. Of course on raining day ( long hours of rain) then no hot water.

Well, he get hot water during the day and warm water at night. In the morning the water is not cold just normal room temperature. I quite like the idea.

Anyone seen this kind of home-made water heating system?

I put up and used such a system for several years.

Great and as cheap as you can get: just a PE pipe on the roof and a basic plastic storage water tank of 100L with insulation wrapped around (still warm in the morning): no pump or any mechanical/electrical stuff since the tank was slightly higher than the pipe: natural flow when heating (sun) and still when not. All DIY.

Why don't I use it anymore? The trees around the house grew until covering the roof, something I wanted since my air con can now fully retire.

I should move the system a little apart of the house

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Mitker said:

I put up and used such a system for several years.

Great and as cheap as you can get: just a PE pipe on the roof and a basic plastic storage water tank of 100L with insulation wrapped around (still warm in the morning): no pump or any mechanical/electrical stuff since the tank was slightly higher than the pipe: natural flow when heating (sun) and still when not. All DIY.

Why don't I use it anymore? The trees around the house grew until covering the roof, something I wanted since my air con can now fully retire.

I should move the system a little apart of the house

Would you post some pictures please, that kind of system is on my to do list and any ideas are very welcome.

[Wullie Mercer]

On 2/21/2019 at 4:27 PM, Kwasaki said:

Lecky is cheap for me the rest of my family are on 5/15 supply which they get free, it doesn't come any cheaper than that. ????

What is 5/15 supply?

[Thainesss]

1 hour ago, Wullie Mercer said:

What is 5/15 supply?

 

It’s the amperage rating/calibration of their electric meter. It’s not a “supply”  as you can pull unlimited power through it (or until it burns out). It just measures consumption for the purpose of billing you. 

 

They get their electricity free because their monthly electric bill is lower than the government minimum per month. 

 

Which would equate to MAYBE a single light bulb, fan, and tv. 

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, Wullie Mercer said:

What is 5/15 supply?

It's actually the rating of the meter, 5A calibration, 15A maximum. There "should" be a 15A fuse / breaker in the circuit somewhere.

 

Most of us have a 15/45, 15A calibration, 45A maximum. Usually a 50A or 63A fuse or breaker on the incoming supply.

 

[Thainesss]

5 minutes ago, Crossy said:

There "should" be a 15A fuse / breaker in the circuit somewhere.

 

But not in the meter itself, right? 

[Crossy]

6 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

But not in the meter itself, right? 

No, the meter will happily keep on supplying current until it pops.

 

A short term 100% overload (30A on a 5/15) will usually be OK although it's well outside the calibration range (bet it won't read low), anything more may result in a melted meter (and a bill from MEA/PEA).

 

[ronaldo0]

Price has gone down and I seen full systems that will run a 3 bedroom house with pool for around 300,000 bht and store up to 24 hrs of electric I think it was.

The problem I noted was the cells that store the electric need replaced every 5 years or so and aint cheap. Its a long term thing and not quite at level I would invest in it yet.

[Kwasaki]

4 hours ago, Wullie Mercer said:

What is 5/15 supply?

They are household amperage supply values.

You can get 15/ 45 also 3 phase if you want.

 

2 hours ago, Thainesss said:

Which would equate to MAYBE a single light bulb, fan, and tv. 

And a moderate household fridge too.

Also you can run a small btu air-con but then you go over free supply use. 

[Bandersnatch]

On 2/27/2019 at 8:55 AM, Thainesss said:

What shop is this in Buriram?

http://www.burirambuildersmerchants.com/

[kamalabob2]

This deep well DC water pump, three solar panels, a control box, panel stand, DOS water tank and all matter of fittings were bought this week in Buriram. A UK expat supervised two Thai technicians who installed this water pump system installation today. This March 1, 2019 photo of a working solar powered water pump on a home building site in Buriram Province is affordable and a very good option if the PEA demand too steep of an upfront installation fee for a remote location in Isaan. Not every expat pays for land near suitable PEA power lines or PWA water supply pipes. I've paid for both utility connections on land in Buriram Province in 2006 that was located on a private road in the middle of town.  Solar power was not a sensible option in 2006. 

[matador007]

Its worth it in SE Asia with the sun.

 

I believe the best way is to size your system correctly, and not sell back to the grid.  Use it to offset your bill as much as possible.

 

You can have a professional do it without batteries, and just use/lose/make meter go in reverse-backwards.  If you go with batteries, I recommend new Lithium Ion ones (LiFEPO4).

 

If you make meter spin backwards, be careful to take down the # on your meter when solar installed.

Make sure you keep a positive number so PEA does not get involved.  So that could mean turning off your solar at times (easy with cut off switch) so you can keep a slight positive #, say 10-15 above what you started with at install date.  Then keep above # on each bill forward.

 

Many look at cost and return based on solely dollars for this.  There is another factor, when the grid goes out and your still fine watching TV and using a fan/AC.

 

It does not take many panels here to offset your bill, so great if you do it, will be rewarded.

[Enki]

On 2/28/2019 at 3:26 AM, Thainesss said:

 

It’s the amperage rating/calibration of their electric meter. It’s not a “supply”  as you can pull unlimited power through it (or until it burns out). It just measures consumption for the purpose of billing you. 

 

They get their electricity free because their monthly electric bill is lower than the government minimum per month. 

 

Which would equate to MAYBE a single light bulb, fan, and tv. 

It equates to many LED lights, a fridge, a computer, occasionally cooking with an electric powered cooking pot (for soups), a TV etc. and a fan (which we rarely use). We had a bill during the last 6 month, once. For about 160 Baht.

[notagain]

I like solar but be real unless it is subsidized by a gov. as in the west and you can sell back to the grid easily at a good price (not in thailand) or you cant get power from the grid its a waste of money. Oh yeah or you just want to feel good about being green which is a fallacy as those silicon cells, metal frames, sealants, batteries etc. all have a major environmental cost too

[Bandersnatch]

Hi notagain, please don't take this as a personal attack, just because I disagree with you, because it's not meant to be.

 

I am just curious why the only criteria for decision making when we are talking about solar is financial. We spend our money on many things and quite often the financial criteria is bottom of the list.

 

For example, why would anybody spend ฿100,000/m2 on buying a condo in Pattaya when they can build a house in Isaan for ฿10,000/m2. "What a waste of money" but maybe they are happier in a 20 m2 condo rather than in a 200 m2 house.

 

"Anybody who buys an SUV in Thailand, rather than the equivalent pickup is wasting their money" but maybe they just prefer an SUV.

 

I decided to buy a top of the range pickup and take the ฿300,000 I saved in not buying a SUV to install 6kW of Solar PV; 20kWh of batteries and a hybrid inverter, which means I can use the grid for top up. Will I get my money back, probably not, but neither will the guy who bought the SUV.

 

 

 

[notagain]

Good points except I would never live in Pattaya lol. If you have the xtra cash and want to put in solar thats great, like I said I like solar and will install some when I relocate back home soon mainly due to the generous tax incentives and power sell back to the power company. How was the process of getting the pea approval for tying into the grid and what kind of feed-in payback do they have now ?

[Bandersnatch]

Hi notagain, like all things in Thailand, I am sure the answers for Surin province will be different to answers elsewhere in Thailand.

 

It seemed to be a very complex procedure if you wanted to sell electricity back to PEA, lots of paperwork and you can only use equipment on an approved list. So I have decided not to sell back. With the hybrid inverter electricity only flows one way, from the grid into my system if I need a top up and never back into the grid. 

 

I went to the PEA head office in Surin, but had to wait to speak to the one man who could answer my questions. He said because my system was "small domestic" and I was not sending electricity back to the grid, I did not need formal approval. This is not what I have heard from other parts of Thailand, but my Surin based solar guy has confirmed what PEA told me.

[ThaiBunny]

This sort of set-up is cost effective in some First World countries because governments often subsidise the cost of installation or buy back the electricity that gets sent to the grid, in effect subsidising the panels.  However panels don't last that long - the first generation of panels is now coming to the end of its useful life.  Panels are really only half the story - you need to buy battery storage for when the monsoon rains are pouring down

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-10/vic-govt-pledges-solar-battery-subsidy-for-households/10223550