Trump, North Korea's Kim end Vietnam summit with no agreement

[Jingthing]

People are assuming that there will necessarily be a third summit. I think they both would be total fools to plan that unless they first have an agreement ready to sign developed by lower level officials, you know, like normal diplomacy. Because three strikes and you're out. 

[mfd101]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

He's called Kimbo's bluff, really?

 

If there enough information available to substantiate your conclusive statement?

 

Was it in fact the other way around? Do you know, I don't. 

  

 

 

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Says who?

 

Kim probably can play chess. Trump, meh, he'd probably just eat his checkers.

 

Trump is never prepared, and he's often proud to admit that.

 

Amazing what a low bar Trump supporters have.

  

 

In a closed world one is not even allowed, it appears, to speculate.

Edited February 28, 2019 by mfd101

[Prissana Pescud]

8 hours ago, sanemax said:

How do you feel about that ?

Are you a bit disappointed that the talks failed to agree on a deal , or do you view it as a victory , because there was no agreement today ?

Go back to all Mr Trumps posts.

Nth Korea has continued to build nuclear rockets.

And now the second dud deal has concluded.

And Nth Korea is in a far better position to threaten US than before the election of Mr Trump.

 All Mr Trump has done is compliment Mr Kim. As he compliments the Saudi royal family and Mr Putin.

We are disappointed that the talks failed. But we knew that the whole thing was nothing more than putting

Mr Trump on the world stage because no one else in western democracies wants him anywhere near them.

 And still you support this sad figure of a man.

 

[Prissana Pescud]

The easiest thing for both these extreme egoists to do is sign an end to the war.

End it. All the countries involved in driving Nth Korea back to the artificial border

are still technically at war. The armistice is not totally binding.

[Basil B]

A good news story for Donald

 

                       ...Well it has taken the spotlight off Mr Cohan's revelations.

[Prissana Pescud]

9 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

Surely the Americans know that the Chinese are pulling the strings behind it all here...fatboy is just pawn and is allowed to do sweet <deleted> without Beijing's approval.

Surely Mr Trump does not know that China and to a lesser extent Russia are working the puppet strings.

 Because he has concluded another face loss non deal, all the while knowing that Nth Korea has said they will Never give up nuclear weapons.

But, Mr Trump made the world stage in Vietnam. He would be treated with contempt in any western democracy.

Other than some communist countries, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Mr Trump is a total laughing stock. Go USA. 

We used to admire you, now with 50% support for a buffoon, we are will soon call it quits with you.

Unstable leadership = unstable country.

[Jingthing]

It's not 50 percent support. It's more like 35 to 42 percent support.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[tifino]

9 hours ago, Prissana Pescud said:

The easiest thing for both these extreme egoists to do is sign an end to the war.

End it. All the countries involved in driving Nth Korea back to the artificial border

are still technically at war. The armistice is not totally binding.

WW1 also has never technically ended... and 100 years have now passed by! 

But the world still turns, when everybody simply all agreed to disagree...

[Tug]

Kinda pleasantly surprised Donald dident surrender for a cheep photo op but don’t worry he will be lashing out and blaming others soon!

[mtls2005]

Amazing that President Obama was able to steer the JCPOA Iran Nuclear agreement, in unison with the UK, France, China, Russia and Germany, to success without ever having met the President of Iran.

 

Oh well.

 

Maybe we'll have Kim's Korean Kondos soon?

 

 

 

 

[IAMHERE]

See Kim's suit ?  A Moa jacket. He is subservient to China; when he shows up in a suit and tie I'll believe he is his own man. With that jackit, he is nothing more than a running dog lackey for China Leaders. Kim makes deals that China has allowed him to. Promise China the westen powers will never occupy North Korea and see what kinda deal Kim will make. 

[Srikcir]

20 hours ago, webfact said:

While the United States is demanding North Korea give up all of its nuclear and missile programmes, the North wants to see the removal of a U.S. nuclear umbrella for its Asian allies such as South Korea and Japan.

Clearly Kim's original pledge was misinterpreted or misstated (remember Trump said don't believe what you hear and read)

20 hours ago, webfact said:

Kim pledged to work towards denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula.

North Korea from the beginning of talks with the US government has talked of denuclearization of the whole "region" (represented by US and its allies) while Trump has talked of denuclearization of the Korean "peninsula." Those two divergent viewpoints were never reconciled while the US insisted on its own criteria as basis for an agreement.

It's no wonder that Kim accused the US of acting like a thug throughout negotiations after the first summit meeting. At least with this predicted failed summit there might be a reset of US-North Korea objectives that can be reconciled to an agreement.

[mike324]

As much as I don't like Trump, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. The dialogue is on going, and Kim has calm down abit, but I'll give him a few tries before Kim starts to throw a sissy fit again and Trump starts tweeting about the rocketman. Once Kim throws his sissy fit, Trump should eat his words.

 

But the fact that Kim even asks for all sanctions to be lift, goes to show he is just playing Trump. History has proven again and again that NK breaks their promise once we give them something. This time is no different.

[longtom]

For once, it seems, the orange man has shown some statemansship. (probably forced by Pompeo)

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[MaxYakov]

12 hours ago, Basil B said:

A good news story for Donald

 

                       ...Well it has taken the spotlight off Mr Cohan's revelations.

Ya think? I don't think so. Probably more people want to see Trump smeared than there are those concerned about the DPRK having nuclear weapons.

 

BTW, it's Cohen, not Cohan.

[Mavideol]

21 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

Surely the Americans know that the Chinese are pulling the strings behind it all here...fatboy is just pawn and is allowed to do sweet <deleted> without Beijing's approval.

agree 200%.... news conference was BS later contradicted by NK guy. No deal made because US is negotiating with China, until this one is agreed upon no deal with NK, China was jumping in happiness seeing the $$$$$ coming but US said only if we have a piece of it, Xi must have said no way.....  and here we are empty hands

[Mavideol]

Trump questioned if Kim Jong Un knew about Otto Warmbier....Trump said he asked Kim about it and that Kim told him that he didn't know until it was too late and Trump believed Kim....hummm same Trump who believed Mohammad Bin Salman when this one said he didn't order the kill of Khashoggi.....but Cohen is a liar, Trump is not

[mikebike]

18 hours ago, mfd101 said:

I wonder whether it's not actually a case of Trump - and his advisors - having learned something from the first round in Singapore, where DT gave a bit too much away (prestige of meeting, international spotlight, warm words  ie RECOGNITION) for little in return (some symbolic demolitions but nothing that mattered).

 

This time round (I speculate) DT was better prepared, understood the game of chess better (he's supposed to be an expert!) and simply said: You want me to lift sanctions? You have to give me something big & real (namely xyz), otherwise no can do.

 

So he called Kimbo's bluff ... and walking out was a good thing to do: Sets out the red lines for the next round of talks at officials' level. Progress, I think.

Which would make perfect sense if everyone didn't understand Nk's position and negotiating techniques decades BEFORE 45's first summit. No need to "learn" what was already known.

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.

 

[Redline]

On 2/28/2019 at 2:36 PM, webfact said:

North wants to see the removal of a U.S. nuclear umbrella for its Asian allies such as South Korea and Japan.

That should not be on the table

[jerojero]

Yep. The BIG deal-maker gets zero again. Such a conman moron. How do many millions of Americans not see through his bullsh. Sheesh!

[mtls2005]

20 hours ago, Mavideol said:

Trump questioned if Kim Jong Un knew about Otto Warmbier....Trump said he asked Kim about it and that Kim told him that he didn't know until it was too late and Trump believed Kim....hummm same Trump who believed Mohammad Bin Salman when this one said he didn't order the kill of Khashoggi.....but Cohen is a liar, Trump is not

 

Faced with withering criticism, from all corners including the Warmbier family, trump is trying to walk back his comments, claiming he was "misinterpreted" a la the Helsinki Shuffle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

"trump" tactics are simply not working. What worked for him as a corrupt con man real estate blowhard and reality t.v. "star" don't translate to high stakes diplomacy. But as this article says, it's in his political interest to draw out this farce, and also in Kim's interest, but certainly not in the interest of the people of North and South Korea, and Americans either.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/trumps-flat-out-failure-in-vietnam/2019/03/01/980305f8-3ab4-11e9-a06c-3ec8ed509d15_story.html

 

Quote

You can’t solve North Korea’s nuclear challenge if you ignore its torture chambers

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal.

[keemapoot]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

"trump" tactics are simply not working. What worked for him as a corrupt con man real estate blowhard and reality t.v. "star" don't translate to high stakes diplomacy

I think in this case, it might work for him. The reasons are, of course we know he is accomplishing nothing of substance with Kim, and that is the expected outcome. Trump figures just by showing up, establishing dialogue, that he can make his mark on history, show an accomplishment in international affairs (because nobody else was able to accomplish even talking to this regime formally), and use that to further his agenda. Kim, for his part, of course is playing the long game, and realizes playing to Trump's vanity (as many other world leaders realize) is a good strategy for him. If Kim can buy some time to figure out what's next, that's enough.

 

I don't think anyone in Trump's state department thinks there is anything substantial likely to come out of this other than providing a re-election "accomplishment."

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, keemapoot said:

I think in this case, it might work for him. The reasons are, of course we know he is accomplishing nothing of substance with Kim, and that is the expected outcome. Trump figures just by showing up, establishing dialogue, that he can make his mark on history, show an accomplishment in international affairs (because nobody else was able to accomplish even talking to this regime formally), and use that to further his agenda. Kim, for his part, of course is playing the long game, and realizes playing to Trump's vanity (as many other world leaders realize) is a good strategy for him. If Kim can buy some time to figure out what's next, that's enough.

 

I don't think anyone in Trump's state department thinks there is anything substantial likely to come out of this other than providing a re-election "accomplishment."

Yes I already said this can work for him politically. But things working politically for "trump" doesn't mean it's good for anyone else! (In this case though, the stalling is also definitely good for Kim.)

[mtls2005]

14 minutes ago, keemapoot said:

I think in this case, it might work for him. The reasons are, of course we know he is accomplishing nothing of substance with Kim, and that is the expected outcome. Trump figures just by showing up, establishing dialogue, that he can make his mark on history, show an accomplishment in international affairs (because nobody else was able to accomplish even talking to this regime formally), and use that to further his agenda.

Interesting take. Not.

 

Taking you back to 2007

 

Conservatives hated it when Obama said he’d meet with North Korea. Guess what they say now.

 

After President Donald Trump’s surprise announcement on Thursday that he had agreed to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, some conservatives wondered why they were abandoning the position they took with President Barack Obama.

 

Obama’s comments in 2008 and 2009 about talking to strongmen “without preconditions,” and his efforts to work with both North Korea and Cuba’s communist governments, were greeted by conservatives with scorn. So it seemed odd to some on the right that Trump doing the same was being feted as a victory for American foreign policy.

 

“I’m not certain why meeting with Kim without preconditions is suddenly a grand coup when we would have gone nuts had Obama done the same,” said conservative pundit Ben Shapiro, who criticized Obama back in 2009 and is now often critical of Trump.

 

https://www.vox.com/2018/3/9/17100880/north-korea-republicans-right-conservatives-obama

 

Hannity's double standard on North Korea, Trump and Obama?

 

An image shared widely on Facebook and Reddit chides Fox News host Sean Hannity for having a double standard on presidents talking to North Korea.

 

It says that in 2008 Hannity said that President Barack Obama’s "willingness to meet with North Korea is one of the most disturbing displays of Obama’s lack of foreign policy experience." But  in 2018, Hannity said President Donald Trump’s "willingness to meet with North Korea is a huge foreign policy win."

 

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/mar/14/blog-posting/hannitys-double-standard-north-korea-trump-and-oba/

[keemapoot]

^@MTLS, sure yes, of course you are right historically, that conservatives and their mouthpieces (including Fox), have absolutely rejected this idea when it was Obama. But, with these Trump Republicans, and with the new Republican party aka Trump party, all those rules of consistency are off. In a world where the traditional Republican braintrust has been rejected by the GOP (people like Bill Kristol, George Will, Charles Krauthammer); and in a Trump GOP Presidency which likely has William F. Buckley Jr. (probably the brainiest and smartest conservative I've ever seen) turning in his grave and retching violently (if corpses can do that), all those rules you cited are off.

 

Trump GOP is a crapshoot of low-intellect diplomacy.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by keemapoot
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[Prissana Pescud]

On 3/1/2019 at 1:28 AM, Jingthing said:

It's not 50 percent support. It's more like 35 to 42 percent support.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Ok, so only 42%. So sorry. But that is probably enough to win another term after the overriding vote that seems to lack democracy.

You know, the vote that got Mr Trump elected last time.

Mr Trump represents the US people. And I mostly try to attempt to respect any nationality.

If Mr Trump gets elected again, surely we must respect the vote until you change undemocratic laws that may allow him to be elected again.

[Prissana Pescud]

On 3/1/2019 at 9:03 AM, tifino said:

WW1 also has never technically ended... and 100 years have now passed by! 

But the world still turns, when everybody simply all agreed to disagree...

No, WW1 officially ended with an unconditional surrender by Germany and Axis Powers in WW2 

[Opl]

"Russia Mocks Trump for Collapse of North Korea Summit. To make things look even worse for the U.S. president, a spokesperson for Russian President Vladimir Putin said that Russia is now putting together its own summit meeting with Kim Jong Un, according to CNN.“This meeting is on the agenda,” Putin spokesman Dmitry Peskov reportedly said. “We will continue to coordinate this with our North Korean counterparts through diplomatic channels.”"

https://www.politicususa.com/2019/03/02/russia-mocks-trump-for-collapse-of-north-korea-summit.html