Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes

[Jingthing]

40 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Chile anyone???

 

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/they-ditched-america-to-retire-by-the-lake-in-chile-on-about-3000-a-month-and-rarely-come-back-2019-06-03

Yeah Chile is an option. It's a first world country so the costs are among the highest in Latin America but still good value compared to the USA for a similar setup. Their visa qualifications the last time I checked are flexible depending on where you plan to live in Chile. I don't have any information on permanent residency, health insurance, etc. as it's a country that I have personally rejected as it's not a fit for me. If someone wants to dig into the details there, please share your findings. Including things like a need for an officialized Thai police report as I assume Chile is another apostille treaty country.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

 If someone wants to dig into the details there, please share your findings. Including things like a need for an officialized Thai police report as I assume Chile is another apostille treaty country.

 

The article links to the following website with pretty clear info about gaining residency there, and the required documents:

 

https://www.justlanded.com/english/Chile/Chile-Guide/Visas-Permits/Permanent-residency

 

Quote

 

The permanent visa is valid for five years and renewable indefinitely. After five years you can apply for Chilean citizenship or dual citizenship without having to renounce your current citizenship. If you leave Chile for a period of longer than one year, your permanent residency visa will be revoked.

How to apply

Applying for permanent residency is much the same as applying for other visas. Two months before your temporary residency visa expires, you will need to present the following documentation to the Immigration Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Santiago.

• Certification from the International Police in Chile showing no criminal history
• A medical report
• A statement about why you want to live in Chile
• Proof you can financially support yourself (bank statements, or proof of income)
• Certificate of your entries and exits from Chile (from the International Police)
• 2 colour passport photographs with your RUT or passport number on them
• Copies of all your passport pages and both sides of your Chilean ID card (if you have one).

 

There's also a similar link to info about their national health insurance coverage:

 

Quote

Chile is known to have a solid health-care system: A report from the World Health Organization ranked its system highly — 33rd out of the 191 nations it looked at. The Dorchaks use the national health-care system. (You can see health care details and costs for expats here). Both say that the quality of the care is good and the cost affordable. 

 

http://www.expatarrivals.com/americas/chile/healthcare-chile

 

Quote

Private healthcare in Chile

Generally speaking, most expats won’t have access to free public healthcare benefits unless they have residency and are paying taxes in Chile. There are various private health insurance companies in Chile that allow members access to private healthcare in Chile. These are popular among expats who don’t qualify for FONASA. 

 

Most doctors in the private and public sector alike are well-trained, many of them educated overseas and able to speak English. Patients do not need a referral to see a specialist and expats may find that the concept of a local General Practitioner in Chile is not that common, as most doctors specialise in a particular aspect of medicine. 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Jingthing]

OK, my superficial takeaway from that (I'm not going deeper because I have no interest in living there) is that I noticed there is no mention of the need for a police report from previous resident countries. That's good news as that can be a hassle from Thailand but people need to verify that. Also it sounds like many retirees would be out of luck with health insurance if the only option is private health insurance as private health insurance most everywhere underwrites based on age and preexisting conditions.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

OK, my superficial takeaway from that (I'm not going deeper because I have no interest in living there) is that I noticed there is no mention of the need for a police report from previous resident countries. That's good news as that can be a hassle from Thailand but people need to verify that. Also it sounds like many retirees would be out of luck with health insurance if the only option is private health insurance as private health insurance most everywhere underwrites based on age and preexisting conditions.

 

The government health insurance bit was a bit unclear and contradictory to me.... based on the info in the article and then the separate website it linked to re health issues.

 

The 3rd party site says people won't have access to public health care UNLESS they're working and paying taxes in Chile.  But, the MarketWatch article indicates the couple they profiled are covered by the public health care system, and it sounded like they're doing some kind of low level work on their own (not working for a company). Also, I thought I saw a reference where it said Chile has a tax scheme that taxes on worldwide income like the U.S.

 

 

[Jingthing]

Well, the details are something people would need to explore, perhaps with lawyers in country. 

Taxes are an issue worth mentioning. A number of the Latin American countries will want to go after resident expats tax-wise. People will need local advise. I have determined that Colombia does not tax retired expats retirement income and that would include government pensions but I'm not sure yet how they would consider withdrawals from retirement accounts such as IRAs. 

 

Also to add Chile isn't really much on the radar for retirement abroad. Yes, you can do it. But the focus is mostly more on countries that haven't reached first world status. Most people retiring to Latin America are from the U.S. and Canada and most of them are looking for significant economic benefit in doing that, meaning somewhat less advanced nations. 

[Jingthing]

It pains me to mention this but as I've said I'm committed to not sugar coat things about these Latin American countries and I've discovered something quite problematic about Colombia.

 

It's homophobia. 

 

Colombia has legalized same sex marriage and on paper the government supports civil rights for LGBT people, but the social reality there is another thing entirely. 

 

There is deep seated cultural homophobia reflecting an overall very conservative overwhelmingly Catholic culture.

 

Violence and even murder towards LGBT people is a real thing there. It is even directly linked to political factions, mostly from the right but also from the left. The political conflicts of the past (the civil war) are not fully over and may get worse, and homophobic violence is part of that. 

 

In theory it would be better in big cities but they are not immune either. There are asylum applications of LGBT Colombians that are literally running for their lives.

The most likely targets are transgender people and gay political activists.

 

Police are known to not be sympathetic to victims of anti-gay violence there.

 

What does this mean for potential expats? Well, if you're not gay or anti-gay, either this won't effect you, or you like it.

 

If you're a transgender person, don't move there.

If you hope to move there and to be a gay rights political activist, forget about it.

If you insist on lots of same sex PDAs in public, don't move there.

If you're especially visible as a gay person, Colombia may not be a safe place for you. 

If you're comfortable with being less "OUT" about things, maybe you can move there, but you still might encounter social stigma and even violence once your neighbors figure out what you are. Or you could be vulnerable if you like to visit gay nightclubs, etc. 

 

Anyway, with all things, you've got to consider the good with the bad.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Jingthing

[WyrldTraveler]

Having advised people professionally on relocating to Latin America in particular, I can contribute the following:

• Cosmopolitan areas are generally tolerant of homosexuality (Panama has a running joke in some circles that you have to be at least bisexual to be President) but people have a public persona and a private persona; one keeps one's bedroom practices discreet, whether you are banging the secretary at lunch (don't do it on the desk in the office) and you don't publish it on Facebook.
• Law enforcement will prosecute violent crimes, regardless of gender orientation.
• Foreigners are permitted to be weird, but not to flaunt the law.

 

I have held permanent residency in Panama, Ecuador and Paraguay.  One should not decide to immigrate to another country based solely on what they read on the Internet (where everything is of course true) or from rah-rah publishing houses like International Living.  One should go and spend significant amounts of time there before committing, like dating before marriage.

 

In other news:

Panama has announced a new program for USA passport holders which is cheap and does not require large investments, but is not a residency program.  One can stay one year and renew every year for a total of five years as a sort of glorified tourist.  It does not grant you an identity card, but you can get a driving license.  The required documents are the same for residency (police clearance, marriage certificate if married, blood test to show you don't have AIDS, etc.) and is reported to cost $100USD/year. As this is by Presidential decree, this is still a developing story.

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

Thanks for that. 

Yes, Panama has a funny system of having lots of presidents and they all get their chance at doing innovative decrees.

I don't know why someone retiring to Panama would choose that new option over retirement status but I can see that it would be of interest to others, also to potential retirees checking it out. 

[Jingthing]

11 hours ago, WyrldTraveler said:

 

• I have held permanent residency in Panama, Ecuador and Paraguay.  One should not decide to immigrate to another country based solely on what they read on the Internet (where everything is of course true) or from rah-rah publishing houses like International Living.  One should go and spend significant amounts of time there before committing, like dating before marriage.
•  

Yes of course it's common sense to try before you buy.

But for people coming from Thailand there are practical matters with doing a lot of that. 

So basically I think people should do what they can to the point where they are comfortable to make the move, or if they do need to leave Thailand on shorter notice without the benefit of enough trial, they may want to try a new place provisionally. For example in Colombia you can play a game (previously detailed) to get an entire year's stay out of tourist visas which normally only allow six months within a year.

 

Anyway, since you have residency experience in three Latin American nations, I want to ask you if any of those applications involved the need for a police report from THAILAND? If so, can you share some details about that process for any nations that you did that for. If you don't know, Thailand is not an apostille treaty nation but nations that require documents from Thailand still need them formally officialized. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Jingthing

[WyrldTraveler]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I want to ask you if any of those applications involved the need for a police report from THAILAND? If so, can you share some details about that process for any nations that you did that for. If you don't know, Thailand is not an apostille treaty nation but nations that require documents from Thailand still need them formally officialized. 

From my manuscript:

 

To obtain the Police Certificate, you should apply in person at the Special Branch of the Royal Thai Police  You should bring:

• Certified copies of your passport, marriage, divorce and name change certificates and military record (if applicable)

• Two recent passport-size photographs (2.5 cm × 5 cm in height) per applicant

• Cash to pay fees.  You may be required to make a deposit into a local bank account instead of paying in cash.

• Two sets of original fingerprints (must be taken by: the local police, the Royal Thai Embassy or the Consulate in your country of residence and must bear the official seal and be signed (wet-ink signature) by the person taking the fingerprints.  Printed and stamped signatures are not acceptable in nearly all cases.

• Anything else they can show that you need (such as original passport, local identity card, etc.) as thee things change over time and without notice.

Legalization is done at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Legalization Division of Consular Affairs Department.  Be prepared for a bureaucratic run-around as they are not in control of the systems put into place and are working to perform their tasks and provide services to the public under difficult conditions.  Expect having to wait up to a week for the documents to be legalized.  DO NOT LOSE YOUR RECEIPT!

 

Before you leave Thailand, it is advisable to present the documents to the local Consulate of the destination country for certification.  Once certified by a representative of the destination country, the document is acceptable as a legal document everywhere in that country.  Be advised that you may be required by the destination country to have the translation certified and legalized as well, incurring additional costs in funds and time.

 

Patience is advised.  Smile often and sincerely.  It really does help.

 

If you desire more in-depth information or personal services, you may contact me via PM.  I am not here to solicit business, but there are limits to how much I will give away for free.

 

 

 

[GinBoy2]

So I'm sat here pondering this and I can't help having this thought about the whole topic.

 

Now my Latin American experience extends to Mexico & Columbia, both of which for as a Hispanic American are fine, usual caveats for Mexico or course.

 

But I can't help thinking that you exchange one set of problems for another in all of these cases. 

 

There is always uncertainty living in any country of which you are not a citizen. I guess the classic example would be all those Brits living in Spain. I bet not one of them before the Brexit vote thought they had anything to worry about, not look at them, basically 3 years in limbo.

 

Now I'm only speaking for Americans here, but across the US the relative cost of living varies wildly, and the comparison of those cheaper States versus, Thailand, Columbia or Mexico gets a bit iffy, especially since you are a citizen.

 

For @Jingthing on the Columbian homophobic thing.

I spoke to my cousin about this. Her take is that it has improved a lot. The history of it is complicated, A lot of the anti gay violence was actually committed by the FARC, which in my mind was odd for an ultra left wing group, but whatever.

The reason the first referendum to ratify the peace settlement was scuppered was in part by the Government insisting on language outlawing homophobia, which went against FARC doctrine.

 

But it did pass, and as in all countries, even like uber Catholic Ireland beliefs have changed exponentially in the past few years

Edited June 11, 2019 by GinBoy2

[Jingthing]

Well, what does your cousin think about this --

https://latindispatch.com/2017/04/15/escaping-a-homophobic-war-in-colombia/

Quote

Escaping a Homophobic War in Colombia

 

Anyway, I tend to agree that foreigners may have a tendency to just be considered eccentric exotic oddities so being gay could be a part of that mix, and I imagine they would be less impacted by the homophobia dealt with by locals that have to deal with pressures from family, peers, etc.. From my POV, I wouldn't as yet reject Colombia over this concern but definitely wouldn't move to a very small town, but I wouldn't be doing that anyway. My interest in Armenia Colombia, a very small city, might be problematic as well but the only way to know is spend time there and get a feel for the situation.  If cost wasn't an issue, big city Medellin would be my top choice in Colombia similar to most expats going there, but it is an issue which is why I find less obvious choices interesting. But I also like the features of cleaner air and maybe I don't really need all that much big city excitement anyway. 

 

Yes of course when you move you switch the pros and cons of the place you're leaving for the pro and cons of the place you're going.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

11 hours ago, WyrldTraveler said:

From my manuscript:

...

 

Did I miss something in a previous post?

You mention 'From My Manuscript'

What manuscript? What is your manuscript? Have you mentioned your manuscript before?

[WyrldTraveler]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Did I miss something in a previous post?

You mention 'From My Manuscript'

What manuscript? What is your manuscript? Have you mentioned your manuscript before?

I'm writing a book.  As I posted previously, I am not here soliciting business.  Books are commercial activities (if one intends to sell them, of course.)  It is not yet published.

 

As for homophobia in Latin America, it is ill-advised to only research on the Internet.  "Boots On The Ground", live, in-person research is best as the information goes through only your perceptual filters and no one else's.  It has never been easier or cheaper to travel and explore.  Otherwise, you are engaged in mental masturbation.  If that's all you want, have fun with that. 

[Jingthing]

I'm writing a book.  As I posted previously, I am not here soliciting business.  Books are commercial activities (if one intends to sell them, of course.)  It is not yet published.   As for homophobia in Latin America, it is ill-advised to only research on the Internet.  "Boots On The Ground", live, in-person research is best as the information goes through only your perceptual filters and no one else's.  It has never been easier or cheaper to travel and explore.  Otherwise, you are engaged in mental masturbation.  If that's all you want, have fun with that.   

 

 

Thanks for telling us about your book. Please let me know when it will be published and what it covers. Sounds very interesting. By PM if you feel it's inappropriate to mention it here.  Obviously you need boots on the ground for places that you actually might move to.  

But not everyone has the resources to spend months in several places so far away. Scratch that. Most people don't.

 

 

Seeking information in more indirect ways can be useful to narrow things down to a more limited number of likely targets depending on the individual.

 

I think that doing so can be valuable for most people.

 

I think there is a general consensus that International Living writes mostly all pros and no cons puff pieces that are mostly intended to sell seminars and overpriced real estate to people that probably shouldn't be buying any real estate.

 

Yet they are not useless either as they can focus on new destinations that people haven't even considered before and may be worthy of deeper consideration.

 

For example of the usefulness of research without boots on the ground I have determined that my income level is under the requirements for Uruguay. Therefore I won't be spending time or money visiting there to check it out as a place to retire to. Others will find they do qualify there and they can do some more in depth research to determine if they are really interested enough to ever bother with boots on the ground there.

 

I see you're coming into this from a place of much more direct knowledge and that's appreciated but if you're not really willing to share much of that knowledge that's too bad for those here that might be interested but clearly your prerogative.

 

Cheers.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cryingdick]

8 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

So I'm sat here pondering this and I can't help having this thought about the whole topic.

 

Now my Latin American experience extends to Mexico & Columbia, both of which for as a Hispanic American are fine, usual caveats for Mexico or course.

 

But I can't help thinking that you exchange one set of problems for another in all of these cases. 

 

There is always uncertainty living in any country of which you are not a citizen. I guess the classic example would be all those Brits living in Spain. I bet not one of them before the Brexit vote thought they had anything to worry about, not look at them, basically 3 years in limbo.

 

Now I'm only speaking for Americans here, but across the US the relative cost of living varies wildly, and the comparison of those cheaper States versus, Thailand, Columbia or Mexico gets a bit iffy, especially since you are a citizen.

 

For @Jingthing on the Columbian homophobic thing.

I spoke to my cousin about this. Her take is that it has improved a lot. The history of it is complicated, A lot of the anti gay violence was actually committed by the FARC, which in my mind was odd for an ultra left wing group, but whatever.

The reason the first referendum to ratify the peace settlement was scuppered was in part by the Government insisting on language outlawing homophobia, which went against FARC doctrine.

 

But it did pass, and as in all countries, even like uber Catholic Ireland beliefs have changed exponentially in the past few years

 

It seems some people are slow to learn. Leaving Thailand because of uncertainty over visas to go to another third world country where the rules can change anytime is a bit daft. Especially with the expenses that go with a move that is motivated by nothing more than desperation.

 

So what happens when the next place is the same and they now find themselves poorer than they were in Thailand?

 

I agree on the differences of the cheaper states in the USA not being much different. A few posts mention living in Chile on $3,000 a month. You can easily do that in the USA. One thing about the USA is you won't be able to have servants cheaply like in the more economically depressed countries on this list. However doing things for yourself costs nothing and is actually good for one's sense of self worth.

 

Also if you are an American you are taking a very large risk betting the dollar remains strong. The whole proposition seems like it isn't thought out very well. It doesn't look so far like Latin America is so promising that anybody is jumping ship. We had one poster that explored the tourist ghettos of Mexico briefly and found even that small adventure too stressful.

 

With the world how it is I think anybody that erodes the rest of their nest egg on a miscalculated move at an advanced age to another third world country is on a path to disaster. After 90+ pages the fact that there isn't a place anybody seems all that excited about should speak for itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

Forbes Best Places to Retire Abroad 2019 list.

As expected, a number in Latin America.

A good example of why not to trust such superficial sources.

They have the financial requirements for Colombia completely wrong, much higher than they actually are.

Interestingly they chose a picture of Pereira to feature in the listing.

That's surprising because Pereira (near Armenia) is pretty much unknown compared to Medellin and Cartagena.

 

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/5be992c24bbe6f78bda7afd6/the-best-places-to-retire/#11e9eefb26c3

Edited June 11, 2019 by Jingthing

[Bang Bang]

3 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

After 90+ pages the fact that there isn't a place anybody seems all that excited about should speak for itself.

True and I have zero inclination to leave Thailand so far. All in all, good and bad, I like it here.

 

However, this thread has made for fascinating reading. Having been only to Mexico and Costa Rica in Latin America, I've sat at my computer  and virtually traveled to countries I'll probably never ever visit in person. Lots of useful info and anecdotes, especially from people who have actually visited/lived there.

 

Jingthing, a suggestion brought to mind by WyrldTraveler's mention of the book he is writing:

Copy this thread, edit it so that it has a somewhat linear structure, embellish it with pics, add in some data from sources quoted and self-publish on Amazon. You might be surprised.

[Destiny1990]

Personally i doubt many folks will ever consider relocating to SA.

At most a couple of Americans will consider it.

Nearby other Asian Countries and or Southern Europe are more feasible and more safe options imho.

I do like the thread its very informative but with the knowledge i gained here and without even a clear winner coming up so i dont feel an urgent desire to explore overthere.

Somehow i feel more fascinated by Asian Countries and its citizens.

 

[wisperone]

What happened to the Portugal/Europe thread...did that die on the vine?

[Cryingdick]

50 minutes ago, wisperone said:

What happened to the Portugal/Europe thread...did that die on the vine?

 

I think for whatever reason that thread lives in the pub forum.

[Cryingdick]

1 hour ago, Bang Bang said:

True and I have zero inclination to leave Thailand so far. All in all, good and bad, I like it here.

 

However, this thread has made for fascinating reading. Having been only to Mexico and Costa Rica in Latin America, I've sat at my computer  and virtually traveled to countries I'll probably never ever visit in person. Lots of useful info and anecdotes, especially from people who have actually visited/lived there.

 

Jingthing, a suggestion brought to mind by WyrldTraveler's mention of the book he is writing:

Copy this thread, edit it so that it has a somewhat linear structure, embellish it with pics, add in some data from sources quoted and self-publish on Amazon. You might be surprised.

 

 Good idea. Actually improving your situation and making some money might be better than trying to run away. 

[Mike Teavee]

5 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

It seems some people are slow to learn. Leaving Thailand because of uncertainty over visas to go to another third world country where the rules can change anytime is a bit daft. Especially with the expenses that go with a move that is motivated by nothing more than desperation.

 

So what happens when the next place is the same and they now find themselves poorer than they were in Thailand?

 

I agree on the differences of the cheaper states in the USA not being much different. A few posts mention living in Chile on $3,000 a month. You can easily do that in the USA. One thing about the USA is you won't be able to have servants cheaply like in the more economically depressed countries on this list. However doing things for yourself costs nothing and is actually good for one's sense of self worth.

 

Also if you are an American you are taking a very large risk betting the dollar remains strong. The whole proposition seems like it isn't thought out very well. It doesn't look so far like Latin America is so promising that anybody is jumping ship. We had one poster that explored the tourist ghettos of Mexico briefly and found even that small adventure too stressful.

 

With the world how it is I think anybody that erodes the rest of their nest egg on a miscalculated move at an advanced age to another third world country is on a path to disaster. After 90+ pages the fact that there isn't a place anybody seems all that excited about should speak for itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A large part of this thread (& the draw to moving to LATAM) is around options for getting Permanent Residency which for most of us stands at zero in Thailand. 

 

[Cryingdick]

1 minute ago, Mike Teavee said:

A large part of this thread (& the draw to moving to LATAM) is around options for getting Permanent Residency which for most of us stands at zero in Thailand. 

 

 

I guess I understand that but isn't the crux of the matter that laws change in such places like they did in Thailand? Do you really think Colombia or Honduras is some stable place where the laws are respected? 

[Mike Teavee]

1 minute ago, Cryingdick said:

 

I guess I understand that but isn't the crux of the matter that laws change in such places like they did in Thailand? Do you really think Colombia or Honduras is some stable place where the laws are respected? 

No... I absolutely agree with you that laws can & will change no matter where you go, but having PR feels a lot more secure than being on a year-by-year visa & I think the recent changes (plus "Scares" around mandatory Health Insurance) are making more people put PR higher up their priority list.

 

 

 

[Cryingdick]

Just now, Mike Teavee said:

No... I absolutely agree with you that laws can & will change no matter where you go, but having PR feels a lot more secure than being on a year-by-year visa & I think the recent changes (plus "Scares" around mandatory Health Insurance) are making more people put PR higher up their priority list.

 

 

 

 

You also have to look at the motives involved in moving to these places. It is a poster looking to move somewhere so that the income disparity is higher and the national health care system takes care of them.

 

Now if the health care system is that good they are going to catch on sooner rather than later. It is slightly unethical to move to a country to exploit the entitlements meant for their citizens. In this sense it might last a little while but they will cut off the tit quickly if too many people take advantage.

 

The examples of what I have seen off this thread have very little to offer their new host country and seem predicated upon that which will only benefit themselves. I am sure Colombia and Mexico are settling of fireworks to welcome the new caravans in.

[Jingthing]

No... I absolutely agree with you that laws can & will change no matter where you go, but having PR feels a lot more secure than being on a year-by-year visa & I think the recent changes (plus "Scares" around mandatory Health Insurance) are making more people put PR higher up their priority list.
 
 
 

Yes nothing is certain but in general permanent residence and especially citizenship is more certain than serial annual extensions with no chance to improve status.

In that theme people in Thailand buying long term Elite deals will feel more secure than people on extensions.

But that isn't guaranteed to always be honored either.

This is real life stuff. Nothing is 100 percent certain. You look at situations and take your chances.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

Personally i doubt many folks will ever consider relocating to SA. At most a couple of Americans will consider it.

Nearby other Asian Countries and or Southern Europe are more feasible and more safe options imho.

I do like the thread its very informative but with the knowledge i gained here and without even a clear winner coming up so i dont feel an urgent desire to explore overthere.

Somehow i feel more fascinated by Asian Countries and its citizens.

 

 

I assume you mean expats in Thailand that will leave will mostly not be going to Latin America? Of course that's true and so what? We already know that the most popular choices for western expats leaving Thailand are other Asean nations and back home. 

 

 

If you're talking about Latin America in general not being popular that's false. Estimates are between one and two MILLION Americans are living in Mexico. Many of them ironically are illegal aliens. Compare that to the relatively small numbers of Americans living in Thailand.

 

So the truth is moving to Latin America is a very significant phenomenon and in my opinion will continue to grow as retired baby boomers seek a decent living standard on low or modest pensions. By that I mean between 800 and 2000 usd monthly. The average US social security check is about 1400. Try living in the US on 1000 a month. Just not being homeless would be a challenge.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, Cryingdick said:

 

You also have to look at the motives involved in moving to these places. It is a poster looking to move somewhere so that the income disparity is higher and the national health care system takes care of them.

 

Now if the health care system is that good they are going to catch on sooner rather than later. It is slightly unethical to move to a country to exploit the entitlements meant for their citizens. In this sense it might last a little while but they will cut off the tit quickly if too many people take advantage.

 

The examples of what I have seen off this thread have very little to offer their new host country and seem predicated upon that which will only benefit themselves. I am sure Colombia and Mexico are settling of fireworks to welcome the new caravans in.

As a Brit I probably have a different view of national health care as it's all ways been there (though I've had Private Health care through my various jobs for the past 30+ years & renew my annual travel insurance each year) but again, I can see what you mean & know the UK is clamping down on foreigners "Abusing" it (having already "Clamped Down"on TAX/National Insurance paying citizens like myself because we choose to be not-ordinarily resident there).

But without getting dragged into a lengthy debate, just wanted to say that you could argue it's highly unethical of a country to attract Retirees then squeeze them until they can no longer stay (especially ones who have built a family & invested a large chunk of their wealth into the country) 

 

 

[Cryingdick]

2 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

As a Brit I probably have a different view of national health care as it's all ways been there (though I've had Private Health care through my various jobs for the past 30+ years & renew my annual travel insurance each year) but again, I can see what you mean & know the UK is clamping down on foreigners "Abusing" it (having already "Clamped Down"on TAX/National Insurance paying citizens like myself because we choose to be not-ordinarily resident there).

But without getting dragged into a lengthy debate, just wanted to say that you could argue it's highly unethical of a country to attract Retirees then squeeze them until they can no longer stay (especially ones who have built a family & invested a large chunk of their wealth into the country) 

 

 

Most scams start with greed from the victim. However if you are 60+ years old and looking for care now that doesn't happen on it's own anywhere in the world.

 

Especially if you left your home country. Why would Colombia want a 70 year old man without health insurance and pre-existing conditions?

Edited June 12, 2019 by Cryingdick