Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes

[JohnK777]

Your info is very outdated. It's a major tourist destination now and growing. It's reasonably safe in the major tourism destinations which also happen to be the major expat destinations. For people that are afraid to travel there then don't go. 

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Oh no I don’t want to go AGAIN. But at least I’ve actually been there and all over the rest of the world. You’re assuming my info is outdated that’s called “confirmation bias”. You want it to be true. Good luck though I hope it works out and I hope you know what you’re doing I really do, because I sure do after a career of traveling to some of the most dangerous countries on this earth.

 

 

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[Jingthing]

  

Oh no I don’t want to go AGAIN. But at least I’ve actually been there and all over the rest of the world. You’re assuming my info is outdated that’s called “confirmation bias”. You want it to be true. Good luck though I hope it works out and I hope you know what you’re doing I really do, because I sure do after a career of traveling to some of the most dangerous countries on this earth.

 

 

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You say Mexico is as bad. I've traveled there several times in numerous regions in Mexico and never felt unsafe. I didn't go to Tijuana or Juarez slums. Get the gist? 

Yes people need to be security conscious but if you're suggesting the popular expat destinations in Colombia and Mexico are war zones you are tripping and you are wrong. How many Gringo retired expats in San Miguel de Allende were murdered or kidnapped in recent years? I don't have the number but I'm confident if it isn't zero it's a small number.

 

I just did a quick search on kidnapping in Colombia. The totals are massively lower than a few decades back and the percentage that are foreign tourists or residents is tiny.

 

 

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[Muzarella]

On 3/4/2019 at 5:12 AM, Jingthing said:

Here is my priority list --

 

Visa issues -- as easy and quick a process as possible

Visa financial levels -- obtainable based on my lower level U.S. social security pension (happily multiple choices for that) and/or another method that I could use (such as Mexico which has a "show money" outside of Mexico option

Residency issues -- either permanent residence on initial application or a path to permanent residence in a reasonably number of years

Citizenship -- nice to have that choice but not important to me

Beach? -- I don't need it

Urban, rural, etc. -- Prefer a smaller city, from a large town to a smaller big city

Weather -- Looking for year round mild weather

Altitude -- Hopefully not super high up there

Language -- Would prefer a place that you can "get by" with English at least for a while, but considering Spanish is not that hard, not the highest priority

Cost of living -- As low as possible but not willing to live super locally, still want my first world comforts in housing. To be more specific cost to rent something decent between 250 and 500 USD monthly. 

Transport -- Possible to live in the new place without a car high priority

Buying or renting? -- Open to buying only if it appears to be an especially good deal based on the local market and exchange rate. OK to rent indefinitely. 

Pollution -- A city with lots of traffic congestion / air pollution would be a strong negative
Food -- Interesting food, healthy food, international choices but I could compromise for other positive factors

Crime and safety -- As safe as possible. My gauge is if a place is comparably safe to a typical U.S. big city, meaning many many places in Latin America can meet that test

Health care -- Best if there is a buy in to a national system. Possibilities to get not horribly expensive coverage for older people with preexisting conditions in the local market. And/or a retail cost level that would be acceptable without insurance.

 

For Canada and USA citizens nothing better than Mexico. Many nice and safe places to chose and low cost of living, and..if you do like heavy women, good meat, tequila, rum, beer, and wine, you will be in Heaven. Food and weather are very good too.  Foreigners are always welcome, can buy properties and set a business, and you can stay a long time with tourist visa keeping a low profile. To get permanent residence always it is a ``way´´. There is no country without corruption.

Anyway...I do not know any country with more available mid age very beautiful women for older men like Thailand. Old men in Mexico will be lucky with beautiful, young, and fit women only if they have a very good income, and that´s typical for most Latin American countries.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Muzarella

[Jingthing]

Update on long term living in Mexico on tourist visa runs. They've computerized the tracking at borders and its reportedly no longer viable. What is viable somewhat ironically is to overstay and become an illegal alien.

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[Muzarella]

For Canada and USA citizens nothing better than Mexico. Many nice and safe places to chose and low cost of living, and..if you do like heavy women, good meat, tequila, rum, beer, and wine, you will be in Heaven. Food and weather are very good too.  Foreigners are always welcome, can buy properties and set a business, and you can stay a long time with tourist visa keeping a low profile. To get permanent residence always it is a ``way´´. There is no country without corruption.

Anyway...I do not know any country with more available mid age very beautiful women for older men like Thailand. Old men in Mexico will be lucky with beautiful, young, and fit women only if they have a very good income, and that´s typical for most Latin American countries.

[JohnK777]

You say Mexico is as bad. I've traveled there several times in numerous regions in Mexico and never felt unsafe. I didn't go to Tijuana or Juarez slums. Get the gist? 
Yes people need to be security conscious but if you're suggesting the popular expat destinations in Colombia and Mexico are war zones you are tripping and you are wrong.
 
 
 
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No they’re aren’t war zones I never said that but there are some bad people there that see money when they see you for potential ransom especially in the tourist areas and the crime rate is a lot higher than it is here. And actually some places like Juarez for example are pretty close to being war zones because of the drug cartels much worse in Columbia. And even in the tourist areas don’t think that they aren’t watching you for a second. But no I never said they were war zones although I’ve literally been to safer cities in Iraq such as Sulaymaniyah in the north that were safer than all of Columbia.

I’ve been all over and I’ve seen a lot I’m not trying to be argumentative I’m just letting you know because I have been all over. Thailand is pretty safe in comparison I mean even Thailand has a few dangerous areas such as Pattani down south and even some parts of the Myanmar border aren’t exactly the safest places in the world but not as bad as it used to be during the civil war over there on their side of the border. At least look up the United States Embassy travel advisories before going.


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[Jingthing]

If you read this thread you would already know that I have emphasized the relatively safer cities in the Latin American destinations. Its understood that Thailand is overall safe crime wise but it might be less safe in other aspects such as traffic safety. It's not really a competition in that way. Some people have already left Thailand and others will leave later. If they leave they need to go somewhere else. Some of the Latin American nations might be that somewhere else for some. People are already aware of the overblown fear mongering about Latin America. It has infected much of this thread. I think people need to consider a balance of information if they are making decisions about Latin America. Not just be afraid. More like if they go what can they do to reduce risk. The biggest obvious easy one is to pick relatively safer cities and avoid the dangerous areas of those cities. Of course that's just a start.

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[JohnK777]

You say Mexico is as bad. I've traveled there several times in numerous regions in Mexico and never felt unsafe. I didn't go to Tijuana or Juarez slums. Get the gist? Yes people need to be security conscious but if you're suggesting the popular expat destinations in Colombia and Mexico are war zones you are tripping and you are wrong. How many Gringo retired expats in San Miguel de Allende were murdered or kidnapped in recent years? I don't have the number but I'm confident if it isn't zero it's a small number.
 
I just did a quick search on kidnapping in Colombia. The totals are massively lower than a few decades back and the percentage that are foreign tourists or residents is tiny.
 
 
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And I actually said Mexico included maybe not as bad as Columbia depending on what part of Mexico but even in Mexico City the hotels will advise you not to go out at night if you’re a foreigner. I actually didn’t say Mexico was as bad I don’t think I did but Mexico is pretty dangerous as well. Although kidnappings in Mexico are probably worse these days then Columbia because of the cartel surge and it’s so bad it actually bleeds over to the United States side of the border in cities like Nogales, Juarez, and other border towns. But Columbia is not Thailand I can assure you of that. The police in Columbia and Mexico are extremely corrupt and involved with the bad guys, nothing at all like Thailand. They’ve actually done a good job of cleaning up police corruption in Thailand not so much in Mexico and South American countries.


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[Destiny1990]

9 minutes ago, JohnK777 said:

 

 

And I actually said Mexico included maybe not as bad as Columbia depending on what part of Mexico but even in Mexico City the hotels will advise you not to go out at night if you’re a foreigner. I actually didn’t say Mexico was as bad I don’t think I did but Mexico is pretty dangerous as well. Although kidnappings in Mexico are probably worse these days then Columbia because of the cartel surge and it’s so bad it actually bleeds over to the United States side of the border in cities like Nogales, Juarez, and other border towns. But Columbia is not Thailand I can assure you of that. The police in Columbia and Mexico are extremely corrupt and involved with the bad guys, nothing at all like Thailand. They’ve actually done a good job of cleaning up police corruption in Thailand not so much in Mexico and South American countries.


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So here u are pitching Thailand for being more safe with already 7645 Traffic Deaths in this year!

Edited May 21, 2019 by Destiny1990

[JohnK777]

So here u are pitching Thailand for being more safe with already 7645 Traffic Deaths in this year!

Seriously you’re comparing traffic deaths to criminal and terrorist activity in other countries in Mexico, South America, and Central America really? I’ve been there to all over and trust me you can’t even compare it to Thailand at all. But no where is 100% safe, and these days Thailand is safer than the states.


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[JohnK777]

I don’t want to get into this debate any further it’s not really even a debate it’s fact I’ve seen it for myself. Good luck be safe.


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[JohnK777]

So here u are pitching Thailand for being more safe with already 7645 Traffic Deaths in this year!

People die all over the world every day dude. Enjoy South America. Out.


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[marcusarelus]

I get the feeling we are reading a couple of guys who have been to Latin America a long time ago.  When was JT and Johnk there? 

[Jingthing]

35 minutes ago, JohnK777 said:

I don’t want to get into this debate any further it’s not really even a debate it’s fact I’ve seen it for myself. Good luck be safe.


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No, you only want to drop in here and drop an over the top fear mongering bomb, falsely suggesting Colombia is as dangerous as it was 20 - 30 years ago, which it is not, and then go away. Good riddance. This topic is intended for people that want to look at these nations in a balanced way, not to puff them up and act like they don't have downsides, and not to scare monger either. 

 

[Jingthing]

40 minutes ago, JohnK777 said:

 

People die all over the world every day dude. Enjoy South America. Out.


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Indeed they do and injured or dead is injured or dead regardless whether it happens from a violent robbery or getting run over trying to cross a road. Deaths from terrorism make the sensational headlines but statistically they are incredibly rare.

 

Your point about the police not being your friend I think is true in Mexico and Colombia. Not sure about all Latin American nations. Maybe it's better in first world nations like Chile and maybe not.  You want to avoid them. Many people in Thailand will be familiar with that tactic too. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Jingthing

[Destiny1990]

39 minutes ago, JohnK777 said:

 

People die all over the world every day dude. Enjoy South America. Out.


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Your fishy comments lack as usually any neutrality. Anyway i got no plans relocating to SA..

I do think i have better and more affordable options.

[seasia]

Interesting how someone comes on here with what seems to be the intent of disrupting a  very good thread.

Claims to have been everywhere.

I have not been everywhere.

I did speak to a friend who has been to many countries, including war zones, in the oil and gas services industry.

 

I asked him directly, "Is Colombia dangerous ? "

 

Answer, no not really,  a little more than Thailand but mostly OK if you keep your wits about you.We did not talk about specific areas within Colombia..

I will ask him next time we meet up.

[marcusarelus]

https://apnews.com/4fe25feb5481467fbcc0a2f275a287f9

 

Mexicans buy fake cellphones to hand over in muggings

[Jingthing]

Be warned!

 

Some humor from Guanajuato, central colonial Mexico.

 

 

 

 

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[Jingthing]

A rather catty exchange about choosing between the coffee region cities of Armenia and Pereira which are seen as smaller city alternatives to Medellin. But really Pereira is sometimes referred to as a mini Medellin and Armenia really isn't maybe because it's such a small city.

 

Worth reading for the arguments about toilet paper alone! Maybe a fortune to be made there introducing bum gums to Colombia? 

 

It also mentions a trend local expats are noticing of expats that had been living in Ecuador (usually Cuenca) and Panama moving to Colombia.

 

Maybe someday there will be a trend of expats from THAILAND moving there? Or maybe not. 

 

https://www.expatexchange.com/expatguide/190/3413957/Colombia/Expats-Living-in-Colombia/Armenia-To-Live

 

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by Jingthing

[seasia]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Be warned!

 

Some humor from Guanajuato, central colonial Mexico.

 

 

 

 

 

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Yes, I read that a while back, made me laugh, nice piece.

[seasia]

  Cartagena is safe.

 

So says the author in an article on the ViaHero website.

OK, it appears to be aimed at tourists and they are also trying to sell the idea of paying for a local guide ( digital/online ) for things like tour suggestions, accommodation etc.

 

Much of the info is mere common sense but what might be of interest is the details as to which parts of Cartagena they rate highly on safety aspects and those they are perhaps suggesting some caution at certain times.

 

Author has a nice writing style.

 

Extract :

 

 

"Cartagena's crime rates have dropped hugely in recent years, and it is now the safest metropolis in Colombia. 

However, as in any other major city, certain areas should be avoided and steps should be taken to ensure safety.

Here are important tips for traveling safely in Cartagena, including which areas are visitor-friendly, which should be avoided, and precautions that will keep your trip secure and fun.......  "

 

Full article

 

https://www.viahero.com/travel-to-colombia/is-cartagena-safe

 

The website also covers various other subjects, bars, culture, food, places to see etc and other cities within Colombia.

[Jingthing]

It's worth noting that for people traveling to Colombia just for tourism rather than exploration for expatriation, the coffee region cities (Pereira, Armenia, and Manizales) would not be anywhere the top of must see destinations there. Although the village of Salento near Armenia is finding it's way onto lists like that. The coffee region cities might be more in the class of don't need to visit there but might be great to live there (depending on what you're looking for). 

 

 

https://www.viahero.com/travel-to-colombia/cities-to-visit-in-colombia
 

Quote

 

The 5 Best Cities to Visit in Colombia

If you’re thinking about traveling to Colombia, these are the cities you absolutely have to visit. Learn about the culture, food, and nightlife that await you in Colombia's most vibrant cities.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by Jingthing

[seasia]

On 5/21/2019 at 1:09 PM, Jingthing said:

Colombian food isn't very well known internationally compared to Mexican food. In my limited experience the soups are their strongest point. I'm sure the coastal food featuring fresh seafood is great too (but for me living on the coast there isn't appealing compared to the year round spring weather places). With my only experience being some Colombian restaurants (but good ones), overall I think I'm not very thrilled with their food, certainly not with it being the main "stuck with it" option. Not enough spice. Not enough vegetables. Seems perhaps unhealthy. Showing some classic Paisa region and Colombian dishes you can see how wonderful the Ajiaco soup dish is here featured by some flaming gringos. Also like the guy in the video I'm not into chicharron but Paisa region Colombians are wild about it so it's considered impolite to say you hate it (but I really do hate it).  

 

I enjoyed the video. OK, never actually seen a food video review where someone just comments " yuk " on taking a bite.

Most of what is shown I think I would be Ok with.

 

I am not usually a fan of soup but that chicken soup with corn I am sure I would enjoy.

 

"Not enough spice. Not enough vegetables. "

 

I hope it is OK on this forum to quote part of a post, apologies if not.

 

I do not like hot spicy food, herbs and mild spices are fine though.. Vegetables yes can eat most of them but I do prefer a mostly meat based dish. Breads, like almost all styles.

 

Only going by what I have read/seen online but for me Colombia food a mild positive.

I am not even a fan of Thai food, that is in no way a snipe at Thailand.

 

We all have different tastes.

 

Perhaps I am bland and boring when it comes to food.

[Jingthing]

Yes of course tastes in food vary a lot. Another negative thing for me with Colombian food is their seeming tendency for deep frying stuff. Also I have read their side sauces are boring, mayonnaise, ketchup, and other flavors of side sauces even salsas having a mayonnaise base (that might sit there and become a bacteria experiment). That said I'm sure I could manage somehow and like at least some of their foods a lot. The famous soups which I do love Ajiaco and Sancocho are kind of like meals in a bowl, maybe they can even be seen as a kind of stew. I also like that their starch arepa is corn based rather than wheat. They use yucca which is another food that I love but I think it's usually deep fried the same as potatoes unlike the wonderful Cuban preparation steamed with garlic Mojo sauce. I also like the use of stewed beans as in the signature Paisa dish. Some of the pictures at this classic local foods place in Armenia CO are mouth watering --

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g319823-d6220281-Reviews-Restaurante_Todo_Chuletas-Armenia_Quindio_Department.html

[Jingthing]

A little tidbit I read about the Colombian national health system that everyone is required to be in. There continue to be serious financial problems but that's predictable. It's hard to imagine they will just let the system fail. They have numerous companies that are part of the national program which sounds odd and I can't explain it but there it is. So if your company totally fails the government just shifts you into another company. I think generally these companies also have the optional private upgrade options so that might explain the structure. Anyway the tidbit is that one of public plan companies is offering an UPGRADE level within their public plan and that has no age restrictions. Things like better choices to get appointments and specialists. Under the general system once you're about age 62 in general you can't buy into the private plans so a chance to buy into a public plan upgrade would definitely be of interest to such people.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.   Please stick to Latin America.  

 

[GinBoy2]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

A little tidbit I read about the Colombian national health system that everyone is required to be in. There continue to be serious financial problems but that's predictable. It's hard to imagine they will just let the system fail. They have numerous companies that are part of the national program which sounds odd and I can't explain it but there it is. So if your company totally fails the government just shifts you into another company. I think generally these companies also have the optional private upgrade options so that might explain the structure. Anyway the tidbit is that one of public plan companies is offering an UPGRADE level within their public plan and that has no age restrictions. Things like better choices to get appointments and specialists. Under the general system once you're about age 62 in general you can't buy into the private plans so a chance to buy into a public plan upgrade would definitely be of interest to such people.

So, as I told you all before my cousin married a Colombian and lives there.

 

I spoke to her last night and we talked about this.

 

Her take is that you are required to take insurance from one of the multiple companies sanctioned by the Government, but at the end of the day should it fail you are simply moved to one of the others 

[lannarebirth]

On 5/16/2019 at 12:11 AM, Jingthing said:

I did look into it a lot. I am qualified for their visa and it's an exceptionally good retirement visa program. However, I would want to live in Panama City if I lived there and that's too expensive. Looking into the places there that I could afford, David and Boquette, I've decided I just don't find either place appealing enough. Also the weather in both Panama City and David would be hot hot hot, especially David. I assume Panamanian food is similarly boring as Costa Rican food (which I've tried and didn't like) but Panama City would offer lots of international options including a large Chinese population. Another case where visa requirement levels and actual costs of places that you actually might want to live at are not the same at all.

 

Hey, these are my personal impressions.

You might like hot and humid weather and can afford Panama City.

You might like being in an expat overrun backwater with lovely scenery and weather  like Boquette. 

One size does NOT fit all! 

 

Costa Rica's kinda nice. Not so much in San Juan but over near Puntarenas and the Western beaches. Personally I think the western beach areas are a little overated for Pacific Ocean beaches. Still better than most other countries. Avoid Limon and other Caribbean port towns other than for a tourist trip. Puntarenas is very nice IMO.

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

So, as I told you all before my cousin married a Colombian and lives there.

 

I spoke to her last night and we talked about this.

 

Her take is that you are required to take insurance from one of the multiple companies sanctioned by the Government, but at the end of the day should it fail you are simply moved to one of the others 

Yes, that's pretty much the same info that I had gleaned. Thanks for the confirmation. 

Also as I said before even though the continuing financial problems with their health care system are concerning, I can't see the government there dropping the base of the national system. That's a big reason their overall system is rated so highly in the world, higher than the USA, because of the ACCESS for all. Apparently, CORRUPTION is a big problem there which is pretty typical for Latin America (and other places we don't need to mention). 

 

I have a question I'd like to ask you to pass along to your relative.

 

I have heard completely conflicting information on the actual cost to the patient for the base "EPS" national health care system.

 

One side says it's about 12 percent of the income you claim that you have to when signing up for EPS. That could be horrible for a foreigner making a large income as that's even before the private insurance add on if you are allowed to buy that and want it. 

 

Another says a ridiculously set low monthly fee, for example 30 dollars. 

 

I think the big clue here is that it's based on what you tell the EPS people about your income. I am guessing there may be a wink wink nod nod system of maybe people just telling EPS a standard minimum national income and the fee being based on that. That would be lying of course but if "everyone" is doing that, wouldn't you be a fool not to play along?

 

If so, perhaps that's another factor on why they are having financial problems!

 

Anyway, I am obviously speculating, but the actual cost of the EPS system could be a big deal for some people. Low income people as well. For example an American on a low social security check would probably be paying for Part B for their U.S. Medicare even though not using it plus possibly 12 percent of their income. That adds up. Not suggesting it should be free as I think it's fantastic that Colombia offers this buy in to expats, but I would like to know the answer to the mystery of the totally conflicting information about this.