Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes

[seasia]

On 5/16/2019 at 1:56 PM, Jingthing said:

A one day visit to Colonia.

I assume I would like Montevideo (though it ain't cheap).

Similarity to Argentina but not Argentina which I think is a good thing. 

Their earlier stage forward thinking on things like legal weed and gay marriage.

My impression that they treat aspiring residents with respect.

They have a good immigration system. You can stay immediately and then you go through a long process for the application. It seems reasonable and civilized which is how I view the culture there.

 

Great beaches. 

Good cheap wine.

Anthony Bourdain's segment.
 

https://explorepartsunknown.com/uruguay/bourdains-field-notes-uruguay/

 

Anyway, I'm not qualified but think others may want to have a look. 

Thanks, I read that piece and some connected links.

 

Interesting that the author states the country is welcoming to foreigners, that obviously is a plus.

 

An extract 

 

"It is, however, no country for vegetarians.

Everywhere you look, on parrillas (large iron grills)—the prominent cooking method of the region—vast wonderlands of meat and sausages cook slowly over wood coals. Salads are few and far between. Apparently, chicken is considered a vegetable....."

 

Sounds like food heaven to me.

 

The chivito

 

"It’s a mountain, all right: Walk past any hole-in-the-wall eatery in Montevideo or sidewalk table in beach town José Ignacio and you’ll see two, three, even four people sharing a single sandwich. Even when cut into halves or quarters, each portion is so tall—piled so high with ingredients—that you can barely manage to get your mouth around it.

The chivito is Uruguay’s classic sandwich. The name is a bit of a misnomer: Like sweetbread (which is neither sweet nor bread) or a hamburger (it doesn’t contain ham) or an old-fashioned egg cream (it doesn’t use any eggs), the chivito doesn’t sound like what it is. Chivo means “goat” in Spanish (chivito means “kid”), but the sandwich is made with steak, ham, cheese, and sometimes other ingredients, like lettuce, tomato, and fried egg....."

 

Leave the lettuce and fried egg  out, do not like either but the sandwich looks good.

 

Higher cost of living than Colombia though it would seem.

 

So far within the region under discussion Colombia is the front runner I think. ( personal view )

 

 

[Destiny1990]

1 hour ago, seasia said:

Thanks, I read that piece and some connected links.

 

Interesting that the author states the country is welcoming to foreigners, that obviously is a plus.

 

An extract 

 

"It is, however, no country for vegetarians.

Everywhere you look, on parrillas (large iron grills)—the prominent cooking method of the region—vast wonderlands of meat and sausages cook slowly over wood coals. Salads are few and far between. Apparently, chicken is considered a vegetable....."

 

Sounds like food heaven to me.

 

The chivito

 

"It’s a mountain, all right: Walk past any hole-in-the-wall eatery in Montevideo or sidewalk table in beach town José Ignacio and you’ll see two, three, even four people sharing a single sandwich. Even when cut into halves or quarters, each portion is so tall—piled so high with ingredients—that you can barely manage to get your mouth around it.

The chivito is Uruguay’s classic sandwich. The name is a bit of a misnomer: Like sweetbread (which is neither sweet nor bread) or a hamburger (it doesn’t contain ham) or an old-fashioned egg cream (it doesn’t use any eggs), the chivito doesn’t sound like what it is. Chivo means “goat” in Spanish (chivito means “kid”), but the sandwich is made with steak, ham, cheese, and sometimes other ingredients, like lettuce, tomato, and fried egg....."

 

Leave the lettuce and fried egg  out, do not like either but the sandwich looks good.

 

Higher cost of living than Colombia though it would seem.

 

So far within the region under discussion Colombia is the front runner I think. ( personal view )

 

 

Big beers steaks and affordable Sosa this cant go wrong.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, seasia said:

...

 

The chivito

 

"It’s a mountain, all right: Walk past any hole-in-the-wall eatery in Montevideo or sidewalk table in beach town José Ignacio and you’ll see two, three, even four people sharing a single sandwich. Even when cut into halves or quarters, each portion is so tall—piled so high with ingredients—that you can barely manage to get your mouth around it.

 

The chivito is Uruguay’s classic sandwich. The name is a bit of a misnomer: Like sweetbread (which is neither sweet nor bread) or a hamburger (it doesn’t contain ham) or an old-fashioned egg cream (it doesn’t use any eggs), the chivito doesn’t sound like what it is. Chivo means “goat” in Spanish (chivito means “kid”), but the sandwich is made with steak, ham, cheese, and sometimes other ingredients, like lettuce, tomato, and fried egg....."
...

Well, I can only talk about my one Uruguayan chivito during my day trip to Colonia. I stopped into kind of a dive bar restaurant in a more local central area. I didn't appear to be a tourist trap. It was very big. It had all the classic ingredients. I had no problem finishing it. I'm pretty sure the plate included fries as well. Not really more challenging to finish than a super burrito. Perhaps literary license by Bourdain although I can imagine two lighter eaters sharing it but not three or four. 

 

BTW, there were a number of visible expat types on the day boat trip from Argentina doing visa runs, out and back in. I don't recall the exact game and the rules must have changed since then. At least at that time, Argentina was not criminalizing overstayers other than with a silly level small fine when flying out. But it's kind of academic as without an ID card you can't really function very well as far as basic contracts and services. 

Edited May 24, 2019 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Interesting article in the news today on Americans in Mexico losing their retirement savings due to Mexican bank fraud, and not getting much help from the bank:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-23/expats-millions-in-life-savings-disappear-from-mexican-accounts

 

Quote

 

When the Machirs and other San Miguel expatriates met with Monex officials in early January, the bankers told some of them that about $40 million was missing from as many as 158 accounts, many belonging to English-speaking Americans. 

..............

The scandal has upended the expatriate community in San Miguel, a city of 69,000 about 500 miles south of McAllen, Texas. Mostly retirees, they have to navigate a society with fewer legal and financial protections than they’d get in the U.S. Fraud is becoming more common, says Kevin Carr, founder of financial technology firm Finiden in Washington, D.C., and formerly the U.S. Department of the Treasury’s primary representative in Mexico. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

Thanks for that news. I've heard similar stories about expats being hit at some smaller financial institutions in Ecuador. Reading the story may prove a lesson to expats everywhere though without blaming the victims. Monex was promising very high returns. Sometimes things that sound too good to be true are just that. Nobody was forcing these Americans to put such large amounts of money in any Mexican bank. They could have kept most of their funds in the U.S. Hopefully not with Bernie Madoff though.

 

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[Jingthing]

What about Costa Rica? This video is informative. Notice the mention of the negative -- high cost of living. Surprising? Well, that's relative to other lower cost choices in Latin America such as Colombia and Ecuador. The retirement pension requirement is only 1000 USD monthly but that doesn't mean that's enough to actually live on well there. Also as mentioned before the cooking style is boring and the government has made it clear that when they raise the financial requirements they will NOT be grandfathering people. Given these various factors, it's not high on my personal list but it may be on yours.

 

 

[Jingthing]

Medical refugees from the USA to Colombia (and other expat destinations)? Yes, it's very very real. Note the extreme case mentioned in this video that reduced costs from 3500 USD per month to 100 USD per month surely must be on the Colombia NATIONAL "EPS" health care system only as it's clear he wouldn't be accepted by their add on private insurance option. 

 

"Health care is a right in Colombia"

 

 

 

More information for those that are able to buy the upgrades --

 

Edited May 26, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

When things fall apart. Not very long ago Nicaragua was high on the retire abroad lists. Especially Granada. Probably someday it will return but it seems like that will be a very long wait. For the more extreme risk takers, how about buying distressed real estate there? I think the average person watching this video would conclude, hmmm, doesn't sound too appealing right now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

Appears to be some very good fairly current information on the actual situation for expats in Nicaragua after the political crisis. I've been clear it's not a realistic option now and to me this confirms that --

 

Quote

Nicaragua Safety
Is Nicaragua still safe after the 2018 unrests?

https://www.retirepedia.com/safety-in-nicaragua.html

[Cryingdick]

On 5/28/2019 at 2:42 PM, Jingthing said:

When things fall apart. Not very long ago Nicaragua was high on the retire abroad lists. Especially Granada. Probably someday it will return but it seems like that will be a very long wait. For the more extreme risk takers, how about buying distressed real estate there? I think the average person watching this video would conclude, hmmm, doesn't sound too appealing right now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One of my best friends is from Nicaragua and his relatives live there. If you don't like running from or witnessing slaughters it isn't the place to be. You do not go out at night even in a small village for any reason, period. I wouldn't even wish my least favorite posters on TV go there.

[seasia]

On 5/21/2019 at 11:53 AM, Jingthing said:

Thank you.

I am hoping over time we can attract people that are actually going through the process of moving from Thailand to specific Latin American nations.

Why could that be important?

First the perspectives of people with the Thailand experience reacting to the new country.

They would have a different perspective than people directly expatriating there from a place like Canada for example.

Secondly some of the Latin American nations require documents from Thailand as well as also possibly from the home passport country.

The practical details of getting the documents from Thailand may vary depending on the target destination.

 

Cheers.

 

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Yes agree with you, would be interesting to hear from those that have chosen a Latam country after having lived in Thailand.

Could take some time to see any threads or posts on that though, early days plus I have found there is a fair bit of hostility to those that state they have chosen somewhere other than Thailand, usually the same small number of posters go in to attack mode.

Seen it happen so many times.

 

Anyway yes, agree with mike787, you have indeed created a very interesting and informative topic.

Other than having glanced at a " best countries to live in  list"  a few years back which happened to rate both Chile and Panama highly not gave the idea much thought. Chile expensive now I think?

 

It was actually a video link you posted on Salento that made me start to think, did then do some research in to Peirara,both look lovely and I did actually cost up a 1 month tourist visit. Quite reasonable.

Committed this year to elsewhere  for a break from Thailand though so it will have to wait.

 

A friend of mine is shortly going to Colombia, will be his first visit, Medellin and then Baranquilla.

After that he goes to Dominican Republic for a 6 week stay, has been there several times before.

He has also been to Brazil several times, brief comment from him was that it has got rather pricey.

 

Another friend is off to Brazil for 2 months +, has lived there previously.

 

I think both have got what I can only describe as Thailand fatigue, as have I

 

Neither are posters here as far as I know.

Hopefully I catch up with them after their visits, would be interesting.

[Jingthing]

Yes part of the reason I want to keep this thread going is its possible future potential over time. I'm not aware of any other space anywhere focused specifically on the topic of expats in Thailand considering Latin America.

 

Of course you may have heard the dark joke about Brazil being the nation of great potential. Indefinitely.

 

BTW I'm not eligible for the Dominican Republic retirement visa but I did visit Santo Domingo, happy I visited as I was lucky to have been there during a major local music festival, but overall it was too intense for me and wouldn't want to live there. Walking around there I was constantly harassed by unsavory characters. They seemed to be pushing the idea that the only way to avoid that was to hire one of them to be my protector and so called guide. I know the beach resorts are different. Visited one outside the city and it was OK. I also don't like the idea of being on a hurricane prone island but you could say similar things about much of Florida.

 

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[zydeco]

And poof! There goes all your life savings in Mexico.

 

Quote

In late December, Kathy Machir called Marcela Zavala Taylor, her banker of nine years at Mexico’s Monex Casa de Bolsa, to get cash for contractors building her retirement home in San Miguel de Allende. Typically, Zavala would wire money or dispatch her assistant, Juan, on his motorcycle with an envelope full of pesos. Monex, with $5.2 billion in assets and operations in the U.S., was woven into the lives of Machir and the 10,000 other Americans who’ve moved to San Miguel de Allende. The transfer didn’t happen. Juan didn’t show, Zavala didn’t return calls, and Kathy and Jim Machir discovered that their nest egg was gone.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-23/expats-millions-in-life-savings-disappear-from-mexican-accounts

[Gecko123]

Re: Mexico

 

On the surface, the drop of Mexico's peso to 19/$USD looks very attractive to expats, but downside is that inflation, particularly for food, has been quite high at 6-7% per annum in recent years, as imports become more expensive. With Trump's erratic trade and immigration policies and central banks stretched so thin, Mexico's history of currency crisises may be well-worth studying as well.

[Jingthing]

Tips before a longer stay in Colombia.

My favorite one is don't do too much research. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

This link is particularly on point to this topic. 
A direct comparison between Medellin Colombia and Chiang Mai Thailand!

Even getting into the visa differences.

Both cities are known as expat havens, many digital nomads, and being in mountain valleys with air pollution issues.

Of course there are some negative developments in both places.

Thailand's visa crackdown probably means CM is less of a draw for digital nomads and we all know about how severe the air pollution has gotten.

Medellin on the other hand has arguably experienced somewhat of increase in crime risk after so much publicity that they have turned that around so nicely. But that's relative.

 

Here we go --

Quote

Medellín vs Chiang Mai: Which is the Better City to Live In?

 

Medellín vs Chiang Mai, Thailand, which is really the better place to live? In our Medellín vs Chiang Mai comparison, we comprehensively compare the two cities in 22 categories to see which is the better place to live in for expats.

 

 

 

https://medellinguru.com/medellin-vs-chiang-mai/

 

[Cryingdick]

Sounds like Medellin is a clear winner. 

[Jingthing]

In the comparison it suggests that housing costs are similar between Medellin and Chiang Mai. My impression is that Chiang Mai is cheaper for that and that's it's easier for expats to access more local prices. Medellin on other hand requires patience and persistence to access the local prices and also a good chance you'll need to put down six months (or more) deposit. For me it's academic because I would reject Chiang Mai based on the air pollution alone.

 

Something I really like about the approach of comparing SPECIFIC locations rather than entire countries as a whole is that looking at that way can be much more useful. For example I live in Pattaya which has decent public transport in the beach zone so the downside about public transport in CM wouldn't apply if I was comparing Pattaya to Medellin.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Jingthing

[balo]

I have left Thailand and now back in Norway for the summer months .

 

But I am considering a trip to Colombia if I can afford it, just to check it out.  Will probably end up as a fun vacation or maybe a nightmare, who knows, but I'm up for a challenge. Lots of good information here. 

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, balo said:

I have left Thailand and now back in Norway for the summer months .

 

But I am considering a trip to Colombia if I can afford it, just to check it out.  Will probably end up as a fun vacation or maybe a nightmare, who knows, but I'm up for a challenge. Lots of good information here. 

Great.

 

Maybe you will be the Thaivisa.com "pioneer" into the "wilds" of Gran Colombia! 

 

I assume that if you go Medellin would be one of your stops. Anywhere else there do you think?

[balo]

Not sure, I will probably just fly directly to Medellin and take it from there. Maybe only a short visit and then book a flight back to Thailand. 

 

Just to get an idea of prices and the culture. I do not speak a word of Spanish.

[Jingthing]

8 hours ago, balo said:

Not sure, I will probably just fly directly to Medellin and take it from there. Maybe only a short visit and then book a flight back to Thailand. 

 

Just to get an idea of prices and the culture. I do not speak a word of Spanish.

Well without any Spanish as I reckon you've already figured out the easiest place to stay in Medellin would be the tourism oriented (and higher priced) Poblado district. You might want to take a few hours to use one of those Spanish for travelers videos (I recall Pimsleur really worked for me for that for both Spanish and Portuguese) so that you can say basic greetings, directions, restaurant ordering, etc. 

You might also want to go to Cartegena on the Caribbean coast if you like beaches and reportedly that is a very tourism oriented city and having no Spanish would be easy.

[Jingthing]

Negative visa change for business/investors in Colombia!

He does mention another option to get around this -- timeshare investing. I don't really know exactly what he's talking about, maybe someone else wants to look into it and report back. 

This is an important topic for people that may be interested in moving to Colombia without a pension as you need a pension to qualify for their retirement visa. 

I think it's important to emphasize that for people interesting in living in Colombia long term it would be much better to start before you reach age 62 (and probably somewhat less than that). Why? Because if for example you moved there at age 59 and got into their private health insurance system which gets you great care for a low price compared to the USA anyway, you can stay in for life even as you get older. If you start at 62 you will always be stuck with the base national health care system only. Of course most U.S. retirees unless they are military or some kind of private pension (not sure if those are accepted) won't have the chance of a pension before age 62 so that's a moot point. But this investor option may be a way for younger people to start and I also assume military pensions would work for retirement visas. 

 

 

[JTXR]

I can only speak about Mexico since I've lived there.  There are some states and cities that are "safe" by any international standard and some states and cities that are very unsafe.  Not unlike many other countries, I think.  Do a bit of research and you can find places that are quite safe.

[Jingthing]

I can only speak about Mexico since I've lived there.  There are some states and cities that are "safe" by any international standard and some states and cities that are very unsafe.  Not unlike many other countries, I think.  Do a bit of research and you can find places that are quite safe.

Yes. Exactly!

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[Jingthing]

Medellin again?

I think he gets it right about the choice for retirees to Colombia that want "perfect" climate.

Do you want to be very active (Medellin) or do you want to be more relaxed and don't mind being bored (Pereira / Armenia especially)?

I think this isn't the easiest question to answer.

As people get older, they may be happier with the boring.

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

JT, apologies if you've already covered this but for some reason updates to this thread don't show in my "Content that I've Posted in" feed so I missed the updates... 

 

Could you please share the negative changes to the Columbia visa

 

Thx

 

 

MTV

[Jingthing]

JT, apologies if you've already covered this but for some reason updates to this thread don't show in my "Content that I've Posted in" feed so I missed the updates... 
 
Could you please share the negative changes to the Columbia visa
 
Thx
 
 
MTV

It's only about business / investment based visas. Not retirement. See the video in post 1349.

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[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Chile anyone???

 

Quote

 

They ditched America to retire by a lake in Chile on about $3,000 a month

— and rarely come back

............

So when some friends who had a vacation home in Chile invited them to stay there, the Dorchaks jumped at the chance. And what they found, they fell in love with: a stable government, low crime, breathtaking scenery, the ability to live on little money, and “wonderful people who don’t care if your Spanish is miserable,” Jim says. “They will talk to you, anyway.” (They also looked at Uruguay, but found the crime rate too high there, though Jim notes that the food is “delicious.”)

 

They decided to retire to Chile in 2013 when three of their children were still school-aged (the children attended the free Catholic school in the area, and just the youngest lives with them now), and, to do that, they paid off all their U.S. debts, as well as bought a 6-acre property and a car in Chile and invested money to provide ongoing income, using their savings and an inheritance from Jim’s father.

 

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/they-ditched-america-to-retire-by-the-lake-in-chile-on-about-3000-a-month-and-rarely-come-back-2019-06-03

[Jingthing]

Colombia style "Chinese" food. I love how they get excited that it has "authentic" Soy sauce in it. That would be an adjustment. I've tried Mexican, Peruvian, and Argentinian style "Chinese" food before. It's super popular in Peru. 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by Jingthing