Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes

[Jingthing]

As a Brit I probably have a different view of national health care as it's all ways been there (though I've had Private Health care through my various jobs for the past 30+ years & renew my annual travel insurance each year) but again, I can see what you mean & know the UK is clamping down on foreigners "Abusing" it (having already "Clamped Down"on TAX/National Insurance paying citizens like myself because we choose to be not-ordinarily resident there).

But without getting dragged into a lengthy debate, just wanted to say that you could argue it's highly unethical of a country to attract Retirees then squeeze them until they can no longer stay (especially ones who have built a family & invested a large chunk of their wealth into the country) 
 
 

Immigration policies can always change. A good example is Costa Rica. They were one of the pioneers in trying to attract retired expats. Their program featured sweet incentives. It was the national policy to attract them in large numbers. Later on they decided they didn't want to offer such a sweet deal as national priorities changed. You can still retire there though.

Again no guarantees anywhere.

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[Cryingdick]

 

38 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Immigration policies can always change. A good example is Costa Rica. They were one of the pioneers in trying to attract retired expats. Their program featured sweet incentives. It was the national policy to attract them in large numbers. Later on they decided they didn't want to offer such a sweet deal as national priorities changed. You can still retire there though.

Again no guarantees anywhere.

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It is carrot and donkey immigration. Lure them in and then once they are stuck, what does it matter?

[Jingthing]

I've got kind of an update on the question of the COST of the Colombian "EPS" which is their national health system which under their constitution should cover ALL people living in Colombia, citizens and residents and that doesn't mean only permanent residents either. As I've said before, there is ambiguous information out there on the cost and also tax issues.

Based on looking at a number of sources, I think the cost is based on about 12 percent of COLOMBIA based income. Social security / pensions are not Colombia income and are not taxed in Colombia either. That means if you don't have any Colombia based income, your cost would be 12 percent of the minimum wage there, which currently would mean a premium of about 36 dollars a month. That includes medical, hospitalization, surgical procedures, dental, and medications. There are very small copays for using services as well. But before you get too excited it's a national health system and there are long waits for services. I assume but do not know that at least if you were bleeding out and made it to a hospital, you'd get quicker service. Probably not wise to assume anything though.

 

Keep in mind if you are on EPS and you want to jump the queue you can do that by just paying the retail price for appointments and procedures where the quality would be high and the cost would be much much lower than the USA retail or private for profit hospitals in Thailand as well. 

 

Another thing, as mentioned before, people over age 60 or so generally can only get into the EPS system and not the much better private cover (where you get quick appointments, can go directly to specialists, etc.). But maybe there are exceptions. A company called Comfenalco may accept older applicants, but you'd still be subject to them considering your preexisting conditions, meaning if you're both older and have preexisting conditions, more than likely it's going only ever going to be EPS. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Jingthing

[Destiny1990]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I assume you mean expats in Thailand that will leave will mostly not be going to Latin America? Of course that's true and so what? We already know that the most popular choices for western expats leaving Thailand are other Asean nations and back home. 

 

 

If you're talking about Latin America in general not being popular that's false. Estimates are between one and two MILLION Americans are living in Mexico. Many of them ironically are illegal aliens. Compare that to the relatively small numbers of Americans living in Thailand.

 

So the truth is moving to Latin America is a very significant phenomenon and in my opinion will continue to grow as retired baby boomers seek a decent living standard on low or modest pensions. By that I mean between 800 and 2000 usd monthly. The average US social security check is about 1400. Try living in the US on 1000 a month. Just not being homeless would be a challenge.

 

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Yes correct i was talking about our Thailand expats only for most of them SA isn’t a logical next destination.

Also if compare prices and gun violence and probably even dating around those things seems better in Asia.

[Jingthing]

Yes correct i was talking about our Thailand expats only for most of them SA isn’t a logical next destination.

Also if compare prices and gun violence and probably even dating around those things seems better in Asia.

Not sure about the dating. Colombian women seem to be a big draw. As far as coming from Thailand for North Americans being closer is often an advantage. No place is for everyone of course and different places may be good for some time and then not good.

 

What I really reject is that there are only two choices in the world, Thailand and home country.

 

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[Destiny1990]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not sure about the dating. Colombian women seem to a big draw. As far as coming from Thailand for North Americans being closer is often an advantage. No place is for everyone of course and different places may be good for some time and then not good.

What I really reject is that there are only two choices in the world, Thailand and home country.

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How about Colombian men? ????????????

 

Its logical if it becomes more difficult to stay long term in Thailand that we look around for other destinations and there are lots of wonderful places in the world.

i find Visas, temperatures, language, friendliness of  locals more and more important nowadays.

 

[Jingthing]

How about Colombian men? [emoji2][emoji2][emoji2]
 
Its logical if it becomes more difficult to stay long term in Thailand that we look around for other destinations and there are lots of wonderful places in the world.
i find Visas, temperatures, language, friendliness of  locals more and more important nowadays.
 

There is a lot of gay tourism to Cartegena, Bogota, and Medellin. I've never been to Colombia myself but "pictures" I've seen have not been disappointing. That said the beauty of Colombian women really is world famous. They also do a lot of of cosmetic surgery. Obviously for people exclusively into Asians it's the wrong place.

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[Jingthing]

Some good news for anyone interested in moving to Cuenca Ecuador, the most popular city in Ecuador for retired expats. A few years back the government in their wisdom closed the Cuenca immigration office and moved it to a neighboring province. That was obviously very inconvenient for most of the expats. Well, they have backtracked on that. The office will return to Cuenca.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Yeah I admit it. 

Cost of living, quality of life, bang for the buck type things were a huge motivation for me to move to Thailand, and if I do ever leave Thailand will be a huge motivation in moving to another country other than overpriced USA (or fill in the blank for your western country).

 

OK, lets say you can afford to spend 2000 dollars a month. Just as an example. Your income may be lower but people often have other sources of money, savings, investments, etc. While you could live OK in some places in Colombia and other Latin American destinations for closer to 1000 dollars a month and you can qualify to be a resident there for even LESS than 1,000.  you'd be doing quite well at the 2,000. Like something like upper middle class in their context. The estimates I'm getting is that in less flashy areas other than Cuenca and Cartagena  (the latter being even more expensive) you can roughly expect the overall cost of living to be about ONE THIRD for the same level in the U.S. Outside of places like San Francisco, etc. you can live really well in the U.S. on 6,000 a month. For 2,000 or God forbid 1,000 without owning housing, you're in the suffering zone. Why suffer? 

 

(A rough estimate for Medellin may be about HALF the equivalent U.S. cost rather than 1/3. But remember most expats down need to own cars there.)

Edited June 12, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I meant to say Medellin not Cuenca in the previous post as I was giving some examples specifically in Colombia and Cuenca is in Ecuador. But on the subject of Cuenca, my information is that the living costs in Cuenca overall would be more similar to Medellin levels than a smaller city in Colombia. 

[Jingthing]

As the issue of homophobia in Latin America has come up here, I thought I'd share this interesting article about the blossoming gay scene in Mexico City. I'm not personally interested in living in Mexico City (for me, just too big and too expensive) and I'm past the age of really caring about how vibrant the night life is in any particular place, younger potential gay expats would probably prefer Mexico City over any other city in Mexico. Interesting to hear the comparison to Berlin in the 90's and how the locals there feel about that comparison. Homophobia in the rest of the country is also discussed. I'm skeptical that it's that bad in everyplace except Mexico City. In my experience both Puerto Vallarta, Guadalajara, and I'm assuming maybe Oaxaca and Merida are gay friendly enough places. I'm still curious about Puebla. 

 

Quote

 

Capital of Queer

Why LGBTQ nightlife is blossoming in Mexico City.

 

https://slate.com/human-interest/2019/06/mexico-city-queer-nightlife-inclusion.html

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Jingthing

[WyrldTraveler]

Internet voyeurism flourishes.

 

I had a very gay colleague in University in the 90's from Mexico.  Discrimination is likely BS.  Otherwise, it would be going backwards.

 

As for medical costs, don't expect the Cleveland Clinic for 36 USD per month.

 

If you can't afford to travel in the third world full time, you can't afford to relocate.  Your income is too small, or your priorities are simply wrong.  Anyone who puts Netflix before healthcare deserves what they get.

 

As for costs, you have to go there yourself.  I am amazed at the BS about needing $3K/mo. to have a comfortable Ecuadorean lifestyle when I pay $200/mo for an overpriced one bedroom apartment all-included.  I can't spend $3K/mo in this village without illegal drug use (which I don't do anyways) but even then it would be difficult. 

 

If your sex life at this age is all-encompassing, maybe you should look at your priorities?

[Jingthing]

Internet voyeurism flourishes.

 

I had a very gay colleague in University in the 90's from Mexico.  Discrimination is likely BS.  Otherwise, it would be going backwards.

 

As for medical costs, don't expect the Cleveland Clinic for 36 USD per month.

 

If you can't afford to travel in the third world full time, you can't afford to relocate.  Your income is too small, or your priorities are simply wrong.  Anyone who puts Netflix before healthcare deserves what they get.

 

As for costs, you have to go there yourself.  I am amazed at the BS about needing $3K/mo. to have a comfortable Ecuadorean lifestyle when I pay $200/mo for an overpriced one bedroom apartment all-included.  I can't spend $3K/mo in this village without illegal drug use (which I don't do anyways) but even then it would be difficult. 

 

If your sex life at this age is all-encompassing, maybe you should look at your priorities?

Snarky much?

 

I agree you don't need 3000 monthly to live in Ecuador but if you did you could live very very well.

 

Obviously how well depends on where in Ecuador.

 

I think you put on a superior act suggesting you know the personal financial and other situations of everyone in the world. But you just don't. That's impossible. You know your experience and your priorities only.

 

There is nothing wrong and alot right to narrow down more likely destination choices with research for many people.

 

We can agree to disagree on that.

 

Not everyone wants to be a hobo even for shorter periods of time.

 

I agree that the national health buy in options are not going to get grade A care. Obviously. But having that option is much much better than nothing.

 

Yes there is homophobia in Latin America. Just because you knew someone is a meaningless anecdote.

 

Some areas are going to be much gay friendly than others.

 

It's ignorant to assume wanting gay friendly is only about sex if at all. There are social aspects as well. Not needing to hide your identity.

 

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[Jingthing]

Some interesting comments on Latin American second passports, featuring Mexico.

Mr. Nomad is a big fan of Mexico City and I think that makes sense for certain kinds of expats.

As I've focused on this thread, residency security is a very desirable feature of any destination country particularly after experiencing Thailand's lack of offers in that department. 
Permanent residence the entry level, but then there is citizenship.

 

 

[Jingthing]

I've never really been interested in Baja California (Mexico) and I haven't even been. However it seems to me that La Paz has some interesting qualities. Personally I don't like desert meets the sea kinds of places and I'm not into sailing but for people that do and are, La Paz might be the ticket. Unfortunately the coastal Mexican places that I do like (Puerto Vallarta and even Mazatlán) have become expensive. Also not thrilled about the seasonal very hot weather and hurricane risk in these places.

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Here is a can of worms issue!

Quote

 

When are you too old or too sick to be an expat? Should there be minimum physical and psychological requirements to apply?

 

Two weeks ago, according to Radio Tomebamba, police were summoned to a Simon Bolivar clothing store where an elderly gringa was screaming at two mannequins.

 

 

https://cuencahighlife.com/can-you-be-too-old-and-sick-to-be-an-expat-should-there-be-minimum-physical-and-psycholgoical-requirements-in-ecuadors-residency-requirements/

 

 

The thought could be expanded to expats in Thailand that have become "settled" here even if the government here doesn't recognize that with any offer of residence security. The older and/or more inform you become the harder it is to move from anywhere to anywhere even if you're already an expat and even if the next place is your home country.

 

 

[simon43]

When are you too old or too sick to be an expat? Should there be minimum physical and psychological requirements to apply?

 

Ha! That would indeed open a can of worms. Judging by some of the foreign 'nutters' that I've met in Thailand, I'm sure many would fail the psychological requirements... ????

 

But seriously - anyone seeking to retire to their paradise in the sun really needs to think about medical issues that will most likely occur as they get older. and the need for adequate insurance, funds for long-term care or a support network.

 

 

[WyrldTraveler]

Superiority is judged by the receiver, not the one offering information.  If personal experience is superior in the eyes of the reader, so be it.  If reading a book by some degreed intellectual (I am one also) is better, so be it.  If watching a video by some random blogger is better, so be it.

 

Everyone is ultimately responsible for their experience.  If you do not like what I offer here (for free) here on TV, kindly petition the management for a 150%  refund.  They may double it.  To maintain appearances, if nothing else.  Such is Thailand.

 

If one wants to play mental masturbation, any thread is fair game.  I won't waste my time.  Cuenca is a nice town.  It's not for everyone.  Some people enjoy NYC, but not me.  To each their own.  I serve only to sharpen your focus; I have no agenda other than to provide honest service to clients.

 

No matter where you are, you will die someday.  You may go quickly, or you may take ages.  Some say that it is a personal choice, while others are not so forgiving.  Your reality is, well, yours.

 

Own it if you will.  Or blame others for your fate. 

 

 

 

 

[theoldgit]

I think this thread is fast approaching the end of it's shelf life, if the petty bickering and insults continue the thread will be closed and disappear into the ether.

[cheshiremusicman]

On 3/4/2019 at 9:46 PM, Jingthing said:

For any people that are actually considering this feel welcome to post your specific destination ideas in specific countries. Whether you've been there yet or not.

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I was watching one of Anthony Bourdains programmes the other night and I found Uruguay to be very interesting re a place to live. I do not speak Spanish, but reckon I could learn this a lot easier than Thai as I'm just coming up for 76 years old. Unfortunately I bought property here in Thailand when I moved here 13 years ago and in the present climate it would be almost impossible to sell at a sensible price, so I think I'm stuck in Thailand to see my days out.

I just wish, that the people who make the stupid rules here in Thailand had a brain between them, plus the very idiotic exchange rates that are prevalent now.

[Jingthing]

I was watching one of Anthony Bourdains programmes the other night and I found Uruguay to be very interesting re a place to live. I do not speak Spanish, but reckon I could learn this a lot easier than Thai as I'm just coming up for 76 years old. Unfortunately I bought property here in Thailand when I moved here 13 years ago and in the present climate it would be almost impossible to sell at a sensible price, so I think I'm stuck in Thailand to see my days out. I just wish, that the people who make the stupid rules here in Thailand had a brain between them, plus the very idiotic exchange rates that are prevalent now.

 

Yes that Bourdain episode is among my favorites of his. 

You are right that advanced age and being stuck with an asset albatross are barriers to making such a major move from Thailand to Latin America. Arguably moving back home would be easier for most but not necessarily.

 

I have both of your issues but feel I am still not too old as yet to make such a change and I think I would be able to accept a fairly poor price for my real estate.

 

I think that Spanish isn't particularly easy to become a fluent speaker. It's easy to get to a basic level but I think successful expats in Latin America need to go further than that. Just saying Buenos dias and Que tal gets real tired real quick.

 

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[Jingthing]

Superiority is judged by the receiver, not the one offering information.  If personal experience is superior in the eyes of the reader, so be it.  If reading a book by some degreed intellectual (I am one also) is better, so be it.  If watching a video by some random blogger is better, so be it.  

Everyone is ultimately responsible for their experience.  If you do not like what I offer here (for free) here on TV, kindly petition the management for a 150%  refund.  They may double it.  To maintain appearances, if nothing else.  Such is Thailand.

 

If one wants to play mental masturbation, any thread is fair game.  I won't waste my time.  Cuenca is a nice town.  It's not for everyone.  Some people enjoy NYC, but not me.  To each their own.  I serve only to sharpen your focus; I have no agenda other than to provide honest service to clients.

 

No matter where you are, you will die someday.  You may go quickly, or you may take ages.  Some say that it is a personal choice, while others are not so forgiving.  Your reality is, well, yours.

 

Own it if you will.  Or blame others for your fate. 

 

 

 

 

 

Rather cryptic prose there. 

Look if you've written a book that you think will be helpful to expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America I don't consider that there is anything wrong with you telling us about it here, explicitly and openly.

 

Same with the services you might be offering. Just tell us about what you're offering and why you are a worthy provider of such services.

 

I've posted a number of videos from the Swiss couple How to Expat in Medellin. They openly offer a lot of seemingly excellent free content but also sell private contracted services.

 

So I don't see much difference in you telling us here what you are offering. Why the mystery?

 

I don't think snarkiness and cryptic philosophy is making a great case. Being open, helpful, and transparent would in my opinion be much much better.

 

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[JaiLai]

I think this thread is fast approaching the end of it's shelf life, if the petty bickering and insults continue the thread will be closed and disappear into the ether.

Yay


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[Jingthing]

For anyone that is interested in exploring Brazil from certain countries it is now visa free.

I visited Brazil one time and both the getting mugged in Rio and the hassle of getting a visa I could have done without.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/brazil-lifts-visa-requirement/index.html

Effective June 17, tourists from the United States, Canada, Japan and Australia will no longer need a visa to visit Brazil.



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[seasia]

A good move on their part, I will admit never realised that a US national would have previously required a visa.

 

Within the LATAM region, British citizens get good treatment.

Brazil 90 days visa free with the option of staying another 90.

Colombia, Mexico and Panama also seem easy to stay for up to a total of  180 days.

 

Long haul for Brits. I would love a tourist visit, taking in maybe 2 or 3 countries ( those mentioned above )

Good UK winter destination for people such as myself who detest the cold.

Quality steak and wine another plus.

[Jingthing]

I want to mention that even though I've been focusing only on Medellin, Armenia, and Pereira in Colombia there are other choices. 

 

Ibague, small city population similar to Armenia, similar weather and elevation to the Coffee region cities, known as a center of music, getting closer to Bogota

Cartagena, Caribbean region, big beach city

Santa Marta, Caribbean region, smaller beach city

Barranquilla, big city, Caribbean area, not as much a tourism city (I think more of port city than a beach city)

Bucaramanga, cool name. interior big city, not far from Venezuela

Bogota, mostly for working expats and mega city lovers

Cali, reputation for higher crime but there are safer areas, and the place has a lot of fans

 

I think for me Ibague is the most interesting. I noticed they have an unusually large number of Peruvian restaurants for a city of such a small size. It's not a tourism draw, more on the "boring" but possibly "safer" side. 

[Jingthing]

Ibague from a foreign student's POV --

https://erasmusu.com/en/erasmus-ibague/erasmus-experiences/experience-in-ibague-colombia-by-laura-588812

 

I think it's fair to say that Ibague is still (and may always be) on the "undiscovered" category of potential expat destinations in Colombia. Not that that's a bad thing, but for the more adventurous. 

[simon43]

It’s 90 pages of nothing so I would agree with your assessment.

 

Sadly, this forum is populated by trolls, idiots, mentally ill posters, fools, those with split personalities, those with anger and extreme high blood pressure etc etc.

 

Yet there are still a few posters who retain their sanity and contribute to this topic in a positive manner.

 

If you have nothing positive to contribute in the way of information, (and that could be negative comment about a particular destination), then please <deleted>!!!

 

JT, thanks for starting this useful thread.

[colinneil]

37 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Sadly, this forum is populated by trolls, idiots, mentally ill posters, fools, those with split personalities, those with anger and extreme high blood pressure etc etc.

 

 

Well Simon i fit the last 2, anger and high blood pressure.

Which 1 are you?

[Jingthing]

Apparently Ibague is the fastest growing city in Colombia and is a commercial/business center. I can see it's central location, closer to Bogota must be a factor. I wonder why it hasn't really registered yet on expat radar?