Expelled no questions asked at Don Muang

[elviajero]

11 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

Do you think maybe they have a daily quota to deny frangs at airport? So easy when they can use the no money lie.

Why would they?

 

He wasn’t denied for having “no money”.

[Pepper9187]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

OK - so your history would have shown something more  6 months here before your trip to Laos.  That would be why they singled you out for initial scrutiny. The annual 6 months out of the country may be why they eventually let your through.

 

They are clearly looking for people who are de facto living her on tourist visas/visa exemptions.

 

If you are aged 50 or over, when next back in France consider getting an O-A visa to prevent future problems, Will also save you all the visa runs.

Yah i know.

Do you know if the 6months kind of rule is per calendar year or what ?

 

Not over 50, gotta have to get married at some point.

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, Pepper9187 said:

Yah i know.

Do you know if the 6months kind of rule is per calendar year or what ?

 

Not over 50, gotta have to get married at some point.

It is not actually a rule AFAIK. Seems to be a sort of internal procedure,, the point at which they flag someone for more scrutiny.

 

If you can afford it Thai Elite visa also an option.

[elviajero]

15 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I had trouble exiting and entering at Aranyaprathet with no-o VISA.

These guys are total <deleted>, doesn't matter what VISA you have, they don't want white guys here.

Can't think of any other explanation.

How about stopping visa runs at ‘historically’ the border used the most by visa runners from Bangkok/Pattaya etc.

 

What matters is how you use the visa you have.

[White Christmas13]

On 3/8/2019 at 7:45 AM, madmen said:

"but I have over 200,000 baht with me and more in Bitcoin"

 

dont blame thailand !

another apologist

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, zhangxifu said:

Yes, that is the meaning of the stamp they have. And that's why I always carry documents of chanots in my name, main Thai bank accounts, wife's documents with me while travelling just in case needed. I have never worked in Thailand. Do you think those docs would have saved the op in this case? I would imagine the first thing he said was family, as he says about to be married.

I think it's a legal, very loosely defined way to deny entry. And sometimes very much bogus.

Maybe a letter from the fiancée confirming they’re marrying during his visit, with copies of her ID and Tabian Baan might have helped. That demonstrates a legitimate need to enter to be able to apply for the appropriate visa/permit.

 

[Pepper9187]

13 minutes ago, White Christmas13 said:

On 3/8/2019 at 6:45 AM, madmen said:

"but I have over 200,000 baht with me and more in Bitcoin"

 

dont blame thailand !

another apologist

Im not sure it would be a good idea anyway to tell they IO "Hey i have bitcoin too".

 

Still seen as the darkweb currency used for, well you know.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Pepper9187

[JAG]

41 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

I don't think so.

 

Out of hundreds of officers, quite possible that a handful understood it that way.

 

The one described in this post seemed to.

Information becomes corrupted as it is passed down...

Unfortunately named "Chinese Whispers"!

 

Legend has it that one message passed from mouth to mouth in the trenches of the first world war, initiated as "Send reinforcements, we are going to advance" ended up as "Send three and fourpence, we are going to a dance".

 

Yours is not an entirely incredible suggestion.

[Tayaout]

31 minutes ago, Pepper9187 said:

Im not sure it would be a good idea anyway to tell they IO "Hey i have bitcoin too".

 

Still seen as the darkweb currency used for, well you know.

I would not talk about bitcoin but my apps show the balance in USD if they would have asked if I had more money.

 

By the way I do groceries shopping at PaleoRobbie, eat me restaurant and a couple other place.  I can send money to my girlfriend Thai bank in less than 1h or get cash pick-up no bank account required at 2 Thai bank... Not darkweb related at all. I'm a proud Bitcoin user since 2013 and I always try to spend at shop that do accept them. There is plenty of options in Bangkok. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Tayaout

[Huayrat]

On 3/8/2019 at 1:35 PM, richard_smith237 said:

What other Visa options are available to the Op? All I can think of is the Thai Elite visa. 

 

If you are under 30 yrs old and don't want to marry a Thai, but you want to be in Thailand for extended periods of time your Visa options are extremely limited. 

 

In my Early 30's the Thai Elite Option opened up for me, otherwise I'd have found staying here difficult.  I'm a consultant and my work is sometimes rotational, but sometimes sporadic and at times I've found myself in Thailand for 9months (the Elite Visa works for this), but, if I didn't have the Elite Visa what option is there?  I don't think there is one, back to back Tourist Visa's are clearly frowned upon, yet the only status I could get in Thailand is 'Tourist' - I would have had to return home to the UK. 

 

Thus: IF the Op was over 50 yrs old, he'd have no issues and could get a Retirement Visa (based on 800,000 baht seasoned in a Thai account). But, as he is under 50 yrs old he finds himself without simple Visa options and at the Whim of inconsistent immigration officers. 

 

It just seems Odd that he's not wanted here until he's 50 yrs old.

 

The only recommendation I have for the Op is to Get a Pre-Nup and Marry his GF (if she agrees) for the simplicity of a Visa, thus circumnavigating the uncertainty. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wrong.. You can get a Tourist visa for a 90 Day stay then do back to back land crossing which gives you another 4 months then another Tourist visa for 90 Days.. So that would give you 10 months in Total..

[Pepper9187]

8 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

I would not talk about bitcoin but my apps show the balance in USD if they would have asked if I had more money.

 

By the way I do groceries shopping at PaleoRobbie, eat me restaurant and a couple other place.  I can send money to my girlfriend Thai bank in less than 1h or get cash pick-up no bank account required at 2 Thai bank... Not darkweb related at all. I'm a proud Bitcoin user since 2013 and I always try to spend at shop that do accept them. There is plenty of options in Bangkok. 

I'm not saying you're doing illegal stuff with the bitcoin.

 

I'm saying in most people's mind bitcoin = underground darknet stuff, so avoid saying or showing anything about it at the IO ????

[Happystance]

1 hour ago, Pepper9187 said:

It was just weird, no question, not asking about money proof or plane ticket, no nothing at all.

At what point does one start throwing money and paperwork (plane tickets, hotel reservations) at the officer?

I read reports where people get bad stamps, denied, ect and say "they never asked to see..."?

 

If it were me, long before they stamped my passport with a bad stamp they would be looking at my 20,000 baht and paperworks...

At first sign of delay or trouble it would all be on the table.

 

I've got a theory too that they might rather see the equivalent of 20,000 baht in my home currency. Proves I'm bringing foreign money to spend.

 

Very sorry to hear about your troubles!

[Pepper9187]

1 minute ago, Happystance said:

At what point does one start throwing money and paperwork (plane tickets, hotel reservations) at the officer?

I read reports where people get bad stamps, denied, ect and say "they never asked to see..."?

 

If it were me, long before they stamped my passport with a bad stamp they would be looking at my 20,000 baht and paperworks...

At first sign of delay or trouble it would all be on the table.

 

I've got a theory too that they might rather see the equivalent of 20,000 baht in my home currency. Proves I'm bringing foreign money to spend.

 

Very sorry to hear about your troubles!

Oh i'm good i mean they let me through, it's the OP who didn't make it ???? but thanks

[Nomad001]

There seems to be a very clear mandate...Whilst thai immigration is bending over backwards to accommodate Chinese tourists.They have moved in the opposite direction when it comes to westerners..Clearly they want only in and out tourists, this includes westerners too..As if your coming on a short term holiday for a few weeks, no probs..Longer term stays whether single entry tourist visa with back to back extensions or METV runs a high risk of being denied at most airports no matter what you have on you (20,000 cash flight ticket out) even been reports on problems with retirement extensions..Seems to be a clear msg "we don't want you here long time"..while most border runs seem to ok..I think it's only a matter of time till we hear and read a post here about denied entry at Nong Khai or some other border crossing.For myself I have one more extension to do on my METV and then back to Australia, with no desire to return to Thailand..Easier for me to get my gf a tourist to Aust for a couple of months..While the process may be grueling and expensive..Once approved there's no bs for her upon entry at an airport in Aust..As my gf has been twice..

[Briggsy]

4 minutes ago, Nomad001 said:

There seems to be a very clear mandate...Whilst thai immigration is bending over backwards to accommodate Chinese tourists.

OP stated the detained group he was in had 3 Westerners and 4 Chinese.

[Nomad001]

3 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

OP stated the detained group he was in had 3 Westerners and 4 Chinese.

We can speculate as to why 4 Chinese were in detention..My point I make is you'd never hear of some one being denied entry on a valid visa going back 4 or so years..Now we're hearing more and more and there's a lot more we don't hear about either..

[Number 6]

If he actually had 200 1000b notes I'm sure that stupidity sealed his fate. At best it looks like he's obviously living comfortably in Thailand, freely handling large amountscof currency. At worst, he's involved in illegal businesses that throw off cash. Maybe he's a mule... So I really hope that money is in something other than thb.

[farangx]

31 minutes ago, Nomad001 said:

Easier for me to get my gf a tourist to Aust for a couple of months..While the process may be grueling and expensive..Once approved there's no bs for her upon entry at an airport in Aust..As my gf has been twice..

But then again, what are the chances of your gf doing border runs in oz?

 

[Pepper9187]

4 minutes ago, farangx said:

But then again, what are the chances of your gf doing border runs in oz?

 

Ahaha good point here.

[elviajero]

7 hours ago, Caldera said:

Legitimate immigration policy would be having a set of clear rules that are enforced across all checkpoints. It's not that I cannot differentiate that from corruption - I just don't see it, because it doesn't exist.

 

Thai police are masters at petty extortion. That's a well-oiled machine as far as extracting money from Thais is concerned. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that well with foreign visitors from countries that are less corrupt than Thailand - it will be all over the internet in no time. Just look at how it destroyed the nice little "200 baht in passport" scheme the Sadao checkpoint was running. At Don Mueang Airport, Chinese visitors whose right to enter was questionable were sold overpriced VOAs, until that made the headlines. In other news, immigration officers had no qualms to put entry stamps into passports they knew to be forged.

 

That's the police farce (sic) you expect to lawfully implement immigration policy. You make me laugh, but you also make me cringe.

 

Within this very context, arranging for a kickback from the detention fee would be quite clever, because the victim doesn't pay them directly. There have been isolated reports of immigration officers asking for money for passage, but much as they'd love to offer that on a larger scale, it would soon make the news.

I'm not interested in conspiracy theories, biased opinions and whataboutery.

 

I know about the corruption within immigration and the police, how it works, and call it when I see it. However, I do not see corruption, specifically, when long term tourists are denied entry because they've spent years/months in the country, which in the written words of immigration is "considered from the tourism point of view to be longer than necessary and not in line with the purpose permitted while entering country." As long as the denial is made in accordance with immigration laws, which in the case of the OP it was, then there is nothing to complain about.

If you had followed immigration policy since 2006 you would have seen all the ways the Thai authorities have used to put a stop to visa runs, push visa runners to get Tourist Visas and then clamp down on the availability and use of TR's.

 

The same people that are now telling long term tourists to use land borders because of the hassles at the airport were, a few years ago, telling them to use the airports because of the hassles at land borders. What is happening at the airports is partly due to the change in MO of the long term tourist, and it is evidently under orders and lawful regardless of the nonsense spouted by you and others.

 

Just because corruption exists does not mean everything immigration do is corrupt. And as I've pointed out; financial gain is the aim of corruption, and the best you can come up with is a possible share of the detention fee!

 

Denying entry is no small event. It has to be signed off by the senior officer on duty and the airline have to be involved, and I'm pretty sure the fees collected for detention are accountable; so unless the whole of BKK/DMK immigration are 'in on it' your theory is weak at best. If they were not formally processing the denied entry and charging the alien a fee I could see how they maybe could pocket the fees. 

 

IO's are mostly just giving warnings about staying too long, and consulates are increasingly stamping passports saying the applicant has visited too much as a tourist; yet when immigration actually deny entry you/others bitch about corruption and unlawful enforcement. In case you missed the messages: the Thai authorities (not individual IO's) are clamping down harder on the use of VE/TR's to stay long term as a tourist.

 

The alternative to IO's having discretionary powers (rarely used) would be for the Thai authorities to set strict limits. Again.... why would anyone want that when it screws things up for all 'long term tourism' and doesn't help guys like the OP one little bit? The current situation is far from ideal but it's better than the alternative, which IMO would be a maximum of 6 months per year.

 

As things stand; a long term tourist needs to accept every entry could be their last and plan accordingly. Simply as that.

[Nomad001]

2 minutes ago, farangx said:

But then again, what are the chances of your gf doing border runs in oz?

 

She does not need too as tourist visa is valid for 3 months..Though a part of approval process is my gf has to submit  a booked flight home..So in effect she can stay up to 3 months

[farangx]

2 minutes ago, Nomad001 said:

She does not need too as tourist visa is valid for 3 months..Though a part of approval process is my gf has to submit  a booked flight home..So in effect she can stay up to 3 months

My point is will it be a problem doing this a few times back to back, to stay 6 months or 9 months even if she flies out of oz and fly back in?

 

[Ctkong]

On 3/8/2019 at 1:47 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

He had over 200,000 baht in cash with him....   Yet the reason for refusal was insufficient funds. 

 

The IO's seem extremely overzealous in this case. I can't see what the Op did wrong, he had a Visa a return flight and cash... He's met all the requirements. 

 

I can only suspect that the IO has made a personal decision that the Op has spent too much time in country and decided to take the law into his own hands and reject him - somewhat of a power trip. 

 

I think the Op was well within his rights to request a senior officer and have the reasons fully explained to him. 

 

 

The OP is not well within his rights to request for an office because the decision of the attending IO based upon whatever whims is final and not questioned. Of course he can appeal against the decision but only if under detention at that time. So be nice to any attending IO when you are entering. Grin and bear the BS. 

[JackThompson]

 

 

1 hour ago, Pepper9187 said:

Do you know if the 6months kind of rule is per calendar year or what ?

OP of this thread (and other snowbirds like yourself) have had problems with less than 6 months stay.  There is no rule - just lying (deleted) with power and an anti-farang agenda.

 

22 minutes ago, Nomad001 said:

I think it's only a matter of time till we hear and read a post here about denied entry at Nong Khai or some other border crossing.

For now, those funding this operation seem to feel they can do enough damage (bang for the buck) paying for lawless behavior at some key-airports and the popular land-crossing directly between Angkor Wat and Thailand. 

 

--------------

 

As to the reasons for denial:

"Pocket-money" = 12(9)

"Means of support"  = "Money for the whole stay" = 12(2)

Cash-Money is as "appropriate" as "support" can get.  If they don't want bank-statements, the OP had plenty in cash.  They didn't even ask about means of support.  Others report the same - never even asked a related question, then denied.  They didn't allow him to present any documents or have a discussion. 

 

Honest cops don't work this way.  These IOs at bad entry-points Could Not Care Less about "truth".  It looks like a "kickbacks" per-denial scheme - which would have IOs thinking in baht, not facts.

 

Embassies only ask to see 20K Baht in the bank for Tourist Visas (1K USD in Phnom Penh) - their rules, not ours.  They could ask to see more if desired - as they do for the METV, though those are not always respected upon-entry, either. 

 

If an IO thinks the embassy who issued the Visa did insufficient vetting on the financials, or the financials are insufficient, then they can complain to the MFA.  Foreigners have no control over those rules.  I would guess the other fiefdom is not under their control / access, but this is not the foreigners' problem or fault.

 

Abusing those abiding by the laws/rules is crap-hole-country tier behavior - and much worse than reported at almost all of those.

[elviajero]

44 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

49 minutes ago, Nomad001 said:

There seems to be a very clear mandate...Whilst thai immigration is bending over backwards to accommodate Chinese tourists.

OP stated the detained group he was in had 3 Westerners and 4 Chinese.

Let's not let facts get in the way of baseless opinion!

[farangx]

 

46 minutes ago, Nomad001 said:

53 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

OP stated the detained group he was in had 3 Westerners and 4 Chinese.

We can speculate as to why 4 Chinese were in detention..My point I make is you'd never hear of some one being denied entry on a valid visa going back 4 or so years..Now we're hearing more and more and there's a lot more we don't hear about either..

These numbers look suspiciously small don't you think, given that tens of millions of tourists come here in a year.  I have to say this is just symbolic.  Maybe TI is really inefficient as some said it is. ????

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by farangx

[Ctkong]

On 3/8/2019 at 2:32 PM, yuiop said:

Not true

Maybe it is less than 180 days a year? Because some years back, on one of my trips to Thailand, I was pulled aside and informed that I would have to give next month’s trip a pass because I had almost overstayed the number of days per period. The lady IO was going thru my passport noting down each entry. I told her I got a GF in Bangkok and since I am Malaysian, I make a monthly trip to see her. Anyway she said ‘ next month cannot enter country’. I still returned the next month and luckily got thru. Seems it is an adhoc situation depending upon the IO you met. 

[Ctkong]

On 3/8/2019 at 3:19 PM, ThomasThBKK said:

They always pull that shit because you are on a marriage visa and its paperwork for them. They want you to use the retirement visa instead because they are lazy <deleted>.

Better still. They wanted all farang to use thailand elite visa and stimulate their economy ... from getting that if farang has that kind of dosh, they have the world to choose from. 

[farangx]

7 minutes ago, Ctkong said:

Maybe it is less than 180 days a year? Because some years back, on one of my trips to Thailand, I was pulled aside and informed that I would have to give next month’s trip a pass because I had almost overstayed the number of days per period. The lady IO was going thru my passport noting down each entry. I told her I got a GF in Bangkok and since I am Malaysian, I make a monthly trip to see her. Anyway she said ‘ next month cannot enter country’. I still returned the next month and luckily got thru. Seems it is an adhoc situation depending upon the IO you met. 

What do you think will happen if she is going to be your GF for the next 20 years, if you are the IO what will you think? ????

 

3 minutes ago, Ctkong said:

Better still. They wanted all farang to use thailand elite visa and stimulate their economy ... from getting that if farang has that kind of dosh, they have the world to choose from. 

And what if all the farang used the GF as the excuse to return here month after months. ????

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by farangx

[Nomad001]

20 minutes ago, farangx said:

My point is will it be a problem doing this a few times back to back, to stay 6 months or 9 months even if she flies out of oz and fly back in?

 

She cannot and my gf wouldn't want too anyway as she has work commitments