4 hours ago, Topdoc said:

This is MB's fault. He is the negotiator and he has presented a deal that the UK cannot accept.
Keep in mind none of these EU 'officials' can be voted out of office.

negotiating a deal is like playing poker, lot's of BS and the better at bluffing most of the times wins....guess MB is a better bluffer but I don't remember seeing him point a gun at May's head and forcing her to accept anything & everything

2 minutes ago, rixalex said:

I'm not a hard brexiteer. I'm a democrat. And it's not a threat, it's a prediction. If politicians promise to do something and then don't do it, there can be a reaction from the public. Plenty of examples of that throughout history. A matter of fact, not opinion.

I suggest worry more about the consequences of a border going back up between N.Ireland and Eire as a result of Hard Brexit.

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

They are making it so easy for us to Leave No Deal. Next step on Tuesday will be to reject May's surrender, then no extension to Article 50, and we're almost there.

A nice thought, but I'd be VERY suprised if MPs didn't vote to extend article 50 and the 'negotiations'.....

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because of course it couldn’t possibly be the fault of Brexiteers.

 

It’s always somebody else’s fault.

 

Brexiteers, failed to plan, planned to fail.

 

 

Rubbish. Brexit has been negotiated all along by the Remainers led by the UK PM. They had/have no desire to leave the EU, which is why nearly 2 1/2 years down the line, the PM is running around the EU like a headless chicken.

 

Perhaps if in the beginning Brexit MPs and cabinet ministers had been left solely in charge instead of being sidelined the result would have been different than what it is today.

 

Teresa May gave away the bargaining points early on in the game along with most of her red lines and now in the headless chicken mode.

 

I also think that if Boris Johnson (or any other Brexiteer in the cabinet) had been the PM the result once again may well be different than they are now.

41 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

I think that the real issue here is that it's not what the government wants of itself, rather it wants something to pacify parliament.

 

Big problem there. Because a large majority of MPs voted for remain in the 2016 referendum. (over 400) So it's difficult to see what could possibly pacify  them. They quite simply don't want Brexit to happen at all. And in the end, I think they might win.

 

And Remainers (including me) can all thank Gina Miller for that. Remember her?

I have given her an honorific title of Dame Gina Miller of Remainershire for her services in preventing Brexpocalypse.......

6 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

negotiating a deal is like playing poker, lot's of BS and the better at bluffing most of the times wins....guess MB is a better bluffer but I don't remember seeing him point a gun at May's head and forcing her to accept anything & everything

In a game of poker there is normally a winner, in your scenario of poker there will be two losers, in my opinion if M Barnier is willing to cut his nose off to spite his face it doesn't make him a good poker player or either a nice person. We all know he wants to make a lesson of the UK for wanting to leave their dysfunctional regime, even if that destroys some of europes economy, it matters not one jot to him.

33 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Oh, have you ever jumped of a cliff before or how would you want to know that we cannot just jump and land softly? I smell project fear. 

It is no longer Project Fear but Project Facts. 

15 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

I suggest worry more about the consequences of a border going back up between N.Ireland and Eire as a result of Hard Brexit.

????????

This is the crux of the matter.

people seem to have forgotten how much trouble “The Troubles” was.

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Rubbish. Brexit has been negotiated all along by the Remainers led by the UK PM. They had/have no desire to leave the EU, which is why nearly 2 1/2 years down the line, the PM is running around the EU like a headless chicken.

 

Perhaps if in the beginning Brexit MPs and cabinet ministers had been left solely in charge instead of being sidelined the result would have been different than what it is today.

 

Teresa May gave away the bargaining points early on in the game along with most of her red lines and now in the headless chicken mode.

 

I also think that if Boris Johnson (or any other Brexiteer in the cabinet) had been the PM the result once again may well be different than they are now.

if ifs and buts were pots and pans, there'd be no work for tinkers' hands.....

3 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

????????

This is the crux of the matter.

people seem to have forgotten how much trouble “The Troubles” was.

Mere trifling details to be ignored and principles and agreements to be abandoned to the most patriotic of Brexiteers...

 

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

In a game of poker there is normally a winner, in your scenario of poker there will be two losers, in my opinion if M Barnier is willing to cut his nose off to spite his face it doesn't make him a good poker player or either a nice person. We all know he wants to make a lesson of the UK for wanting to leave their dysfunctional regime, even if that destroys some of europes economy, it matters not one jot to him.

You’re in charge of your country. Do you really think sitting sulking in a corner and lamenting about others will get you anywhere? 

14 minutes ago, vogie said:

In a game of poker there is normally a winner, in your scenario of poker there will be two losers, in my opinion if M Barnier is willing to cut his nose off to spite his face it doesn't make him a good poker player or either a nice person. We all know he wants to make a lesson of the UK for wanting to leave their dysfunctional regime, even if that destroys some of europes economy, it matters not one jot to him.

clearly a brexiter that doesn't like MB... who (besides the brexiters including you) sees 2 losers, from  where I stand there's only 1 loser, the people of the UK

Just now, welovesundaysatspace said:

You’re in charge of your country. Do you really think sitting sulking in a corner and lamenting about others will get you anywhere? 

For an eumainer that is so opinionated on the UK leaving the EU, why are you bothered so much what we do. Our country has democratically voted to leave, will it leave you financially worse off or something, is that why you are so hot under the collar. Insulting other members does nothing to help your cause.

23 minutes ago, vogie said:

In a game of poker there is normally a winner, in your scenario of poker there will be two losers, in my opinion if M Barnier is willing to cut his nose off to spite his face it doesn't make him a good poker player or either a nice person. We all know he wants to make a lesson of the UK for wanting to leave their dysfunctional regime, even if that destroys some of europes economy, it matters not one jot to him.

Mind-boggling, your line of thinking...........

6 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

clearly a brexiter that doesn't like MB... who (besides the brexiters including you) sees 2 losers, from  where I stand there's only 1 loser, the people of the UK

I was stating what would happen, it is no secret that a no brexit would seriously harm the EU.

I think you are suggesting what you want to happen to the UK.

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

For an eumainer that is so opinionated on the UK leaving the EU, why are you bothered so much what we do. Our country has democratically voted to leave, will it leave you financially worse off or something, is that why you are so hot under the collar. Insulting other members does nothing to help your cause.

I wasn’t insulting anyone or promoting any cause. I asked you how sitting sulking in a corner lamenting about others will get you anywhere. Why so defensive? 

38 minutes ago, billd766 said:

.............

 

Perhaps if in the beginning Brexit MPs and cabinet ministers had been left solely in charge instead of being sidelined the result would have been different than what it is today.

 

............

You mean people like Davis? Forgotten how he turned up in that very first official Brexit meeting empty-handed and without a clue about what line to take in the negotiations?

You can hardly blame Barnier c.s. for having spent the 9 months between the referendum and the first meeting preparing the negotiations. Must have been frustrating for him to find his opposite number being completely unprepared......

5 hours ago, Topdoc said:

This is MB's fault. He is the negotiator and he has presented a deal that the UK cannot accept.
Keep in mind none of these EU 'officials' can be voted out of office.

Absolute nonsense.

 

Remind me, which UK civil servants can be voted out of office?

 

Which members of the House of Lords can be voted out of office?

 

Which members of the royal family can be voted out of office?

 

How many people voted for May when she took office (as PM)?

 

 

1 hour ago, damascase said:

Ready to jump. Have you planned the landing or will you do that on the way down?

20 days and counting.

One small jump for the UK, a giant leap for our freedom.

2 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

Absolute nonsense.

 

Remind me, which UK civil servants can be voted out of office?

 

Which members of the House of Lords can be voted out of office?

 

Which members of the royal family can be voted out of office?

 

How many people voted for May when she took office (as PM)?

 

 

...and how does this existentially important question help the UK? 

1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

...and how does this existentially important question help the UK? 

How does it help to keep harping on about "unelected" civil sevants in the EU?

 

I was just highlighting the hypocrisy in that. I didn't think I'd need to explain it!

2 minutes ago, Loiner said:

20 days and counting.

One small jump for the UK, a giant leap for our freedom.

I am fine with people having the freedom to commit suicide. Just don’t take others with you. 

5 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

How does it help to keep harping on about "unelected" civil sevants in the EU?

 

I was just highlighting the hypocrisy in that. I didn't think I'd need to explain it!

I know. I was trying to highlight the same. 

It's been a stitch-up from the start. What could one possibly expect with the EU and a majority of UK Parliamentarians against us leaving and a Remainer Prime Minister in charge of the negotiations?

 

The writing has been on the wall ever since the globalist oligarchy's errand boy Barack Obama jetted over to the UK in Air Force One shortly before the Referendum to tell us which way to vote - which happened to be the same way as our own government was urging: Remain.

 

The subsequent two-and-a-half half years of fruitless Brexit "negotiations" has been mere theatre, designed to sap the will of the majority who voted reclaim self-rule from the sclerotic superstate and its unelected Brussels mafia.

 

Gerard Batten, a lone sane voice in the wilderness, nailed what was going on from the very start. How, like so many of us, he must wish that he'd got it wrong. But he - and we - clearly hadn't.

 

Just let these fools exit without a deal and let them deal with the fallout. I don't see why the EU should waste time and resources on renegotiating. The EU will be just fine without the UK.

8 minutes ago, Caldera said:

Just let these fools exit without a deal and let them deal with the fallout. I don't see why the EU should waste time and resources on renegotiating. The EU will be just fine without the UK.

Whilst disagreeing entirely with your insults and opinion - I do agree that we've reached the point where it's obvious that a 'no deal' exit has to be the best solution.

 

I've no doubt that trade agreements would immediately reach the TOP of the agenda (whereas at the moment it's at the bottom of the agenda.....) if this were to happen.

8 minutes ago, Caldera said:

Just let these fools exit without a deal and let them deal with the fallout. I don't see why the EU should waste time and resources on renegotiating. The EU will be just fine without the UK.

Exactly. 

7 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I am fine with people having the freedom to commit suicide. Just don’t take others with you. 

 

You're all coming with us and you'll love it. Democracy in action - the will of the majority.

 

Will you be coming too, or are you just an interested observer with a passionate opinion?

34 minutes ago, damascase said:

You mean people like Davis? Forgotten how he turned up in that very first official Brexit meeting empty-handed and without a clue about what line to take in the negotiations?

You can hardly blame Barnier c.s. for having spent the 9 months between the referendum and the first meeting preparing the negotiations. Must have been frustrating for him to find his opposite number being completely unprepared......

Why. It depends on when he was put into the position, what options he was to ask for, what the cabinet and the PM would expect and most importantly how well he was briefed/ backed up.

13 minutes ago, Caldera said:

Just let these fools exit without a deal and let them deal with the fallout. I don't see why the EU should waste time and resources on renegotiating. The EU will be just fine without the UK.

Apart from the fools insult, you are right and we agree entirely. 

Trouble is, you are not the one who wants the 39 Billion pounds, plus unrestricted and unbalanced access to the UK markets. That would be your EU (and our Remainers) who won't let us leave easily.