Income Method - are immigration moving the goal posts again

[scubascuba3]

On the other thread the op said that when Jomtien checked the 12 months of 65k they also asked for proof of income from farangland. This was discussed at length on other threads and all that was required was monthly 65k+ into a thai bank account. So, they seem to have changed the requirements again? certainly to what was discussed before.

 

The reason this is an issue is some people are over 50 but not drawing a pension so are transferring in cash or selling investments etc.

 

I could switch to the 800k method but i don't really want to but with Immigration moving the goal posts all the time it may be the only option. So that's 3 months of me transferring in 65k+ a waste of time and money

 

 

[madmen]

Cowboy IO'S are nothing new. I would wait for multiple reports regarding the topic from different offices before paying it any attention

[thaitero]

I think the point is to see you do not cycle same money to thailand and back to your home country.

[freedomnow]

Why doesn't someone send a text message to BJ in Thai about getting all offices on the same page regarding this ? As much as he is hardline to foreigners, he is also hardline to the slobs in Imm. offices.

I'm not a retiree, just an observation that there appears to be a line open to him and from what I read that particular office is a pure headache on the make.

[baansgr]

Some people were not lucky enough to have gold plated pensions so with deterating annuity rates invested elsewhere for a better return. Stating has to be from a regonised  pension fund is ludicrous and many won't be able to do that. 

[scubascuba3]

Why doesn't someone send a text message to BJ in Thai about getting all offices on the same page regarding this ? As much as he is hardline to foreigners, he is also hardline to the slobs in Imm. offices.
I'm not a retiree, just an observation that there appears to be a line open to him and from what I read that particular office is a pure headache on the make.

the muppets there are clearly corrupt with the agencies lining up out back but BJ turns a blind eye, we all know so why doesn't he

[scubascuba3]

Some people were not lucky enough to have gold plated pensions so with deterating annuity rates invested elsewhere for a better return. Stating has to be from a regonised  pension fund is ludicrous and many won't be able to do that. 

Yes, immigration never seem to think things through, probably don't understand the issues

[ubonjoe]

It is certainly not written in the amendment to the police order.

But as most people are aware immigration can ask for additional proof if they think it is needed.

It is not clear what they were asking for in that one report of it. Proof of where the money is being transferred from might be enough proof if they suspected your were earning the money here and sending it out of the country and then back again.

[scubascuba3]

I think the point is to see you do not cycle same money to thailand and back to your home country.

Maybe so but there are many legit ways farang can get the money to transfer over. No way immigration will be able to cope with the documentation to prove how its generated

[scubascuba3]

Proof of where the money is being transferred from might be enough proof if they suspected your were earning the money here and sending it out of the country and then back again.

Do we really want to take the risk of the IO saying its insufficient evidence, 12 months faffing about transferring monthly 65k+ and they reject it because the IO doesn't understand the documentation which they probably don't want to see anyway

[Time Traveller]

The thing is, Income is a very subjective term as is really depends up each countries laws over what is considered income. For example, selling investments in many countries is considered income as the sale of an asset is considered a Taxable event. 

The problem is Thailand immigration are morons. The only way effective way to determine someone's income is a copy of their individual tax filing because lying on that has serious legal ramifications. Immigration would save so many headaches and wasted time if they just required every applicant for extension of stay to show their tax returns.

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Time Traveller

[trd]

The thing is, Income is a very subjective term as is really depends up each countries laws over what is considered income. For example, selling investments in many countries is considered income as the sale of an asset is considered a Taxable event. 
The problem is Thailand immigration are morons. The only way effective way to determine someone's income is a copy of their individual tax filing because lying on that has serious legal ramifications. Immigration would save so many headaches and wasted time if they just required every applicant for extension of stay to show their tax returns.
 

What tax return? I'm on a UK pension which is income but I haven't made a tax return for more than 20 years.

[mokwit]

2 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

The thing is, Income is a very subjective term as is really depends up each countries laws over what is considered income. For example, selling investments in many countries is considered income as the sale of an asset is considered a Taxable event. 

The problem is Thailand immigration are morons. The only way effective way to determine someone's income is a copy of their individual tax filing because lying on that has serious legal ramifications. Immigration would save so many headaches and wasted time if they just required every applicant for extension of stay to show their tax returns.

 

Yes this would simplify matters. I can't imagine any IO would have problems interpreting Yemeni or any of the couple of hundred countries different tax statements - esp those not in English. Certainly a lot easier than interpreting statements from a handful of Thai banks.

[ubonjoe]

52 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Do we really want to take the risk of the IO saying its insufficient evidence, 12 months faffing about transferring monthly 65k+ and they reject it because the IO doesn't understand the documentation which they probably don't want to see anyway

 

We are just starting to see reports about using transfers to prove income. Many people are using proof of income from their embassy they were able to get before they were stopped.

I will not know anything from personal experience until I apply for my next extension based upon marriage due in August using proof of the income I have had going into my Thai bank account for years now. But I do have proof of the source of it.

I not complaining about having to do it that way since I will not have to make the annual trek to the embassy for a income affidavit.

[graemeaylward]

55 minutes ago, trd said:

What tax return? I'm on a UK pension which is income but I haven't made a tax return for more than 20 years.

So are you opting to pay tax in Thailand then?

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

[baggies666]

This is worrying too for me, I had planned to change next year to 65k pm, I am far away from pension age so the only other thing I could show them would be my investments and savings accounts, I suppose the worse that can happen is that I have to leave and start the process again if phuket ends up requiring pension income only.

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

So I will transfer B 6500/month

I think you left a zero out of that. It should be 65,000 baht.

[trd]

So are you opting to pay tax in Thailand then?

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I don't pay tax.

[ubonjoe]

Off topic posts bringing politics and the elections into the discussion have been removed.

[sumrit]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

On the other thread the op said that when Jomtien checked the 12 months of 65k they also asked for proof of income from farangland. This was discussed at length on other threads and all that was required was monthly 65k+ into a thai bank account. So, they seem to have changed the requirements again? certainly to what was discussed before.

Do we really want to take the risk of the IO saying its insufficient evidence, 12 months faffing about transferring monthly 65k+ and they reject it because the IO doesn't understand the documentation which they probably don't want to see anyway

3

Although not normally requested, Immigration have always had the option of requesting the source of the income. This is not new. Nothing has changed.

 

I suspect that with the reports of apparent widespread abuse of the use agents and income affidavits that led to the recent changes, I think Immigration will initially ask for proof of income source from many more extension applicants to try to prevent people from recycling the same 65k/40k every month.

 

 

54 minutes ago, trd said:

What tax return? I'm on a UK pension which is income but I haven't made a tax return for more than 20 years.

Your UK state pension is probably below the UK tax-free allowance. If you don't pay any tax your total UK income, from all sources, must be less than £11,800 pa. HMRC would normally hold a record of those (taxable) income sources.

[trd]

Your UK state pension is probably below the UK tax-free allowance. If you don't pay any tax your total UK income, from all sources, must be less than £11,800 pa. HMRC would normally hold a record of those (taxable) income sources.

I'm not liable to pay tax on my UK pension which means I am not liable to pay tax in Thailand either. When I deposit money into a Thai savings account I am paid interest from which a deduction is automatically made for tax on that interest for Thai tax purposes. That is the sum total of my Thai tax liability.

[scubascuba3]

 

14 minutes ago, sumrit said:

I think Immigration will initially ask for proof of income source from many more extension applicants to try to prevent people from recycling the same 65k/40k every month.

But they won't understand the documents people can provide. They won't even look at back up for transferwise transfers. Immigration just can't cope with looking at various types of documents to prove income in farangland

 

[trd]

6 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

But they won't understand the documents people can provide. They won't even look at back up for transferwise transfers. Immigration just can't cope with looking at various types of documents to prove income in farangland

Exactly right. They want a simple clear and consistent piece of documentation that works for every case. They just haven't got time for anything else. IO's are paper processors, not investigators!

[jonclark]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Do we really want to take the risk of the IO saying its insufficient evidence, 12 months faffing about transferring monthly 65k+ and they reject it because the IO doesn't understand the documentation which they probably don't want to see anyway

I think you have probably hit the nail on the head there. Are immigration officers sufficiently skilled enough to understand the documents being presented to them (probably in a foreign language) and how they relate to their own requirements. I would guess no, which is why the certified embassy letter was a god send. The county of origin did the approval for them. .

 

The IO probably need some significant upskilling so that the can understand the documents being presented to them which is a job requirement. 

[Henryford]

1 hour ago, trd said:

What tax return? I'm on a UK pension which is income but I haven't made a tax return for more than 20 years.

But you must have a P60 yes, shows your income and tax deducted.

[trd]

But you must have a P60 yes, shows your income and tax deducted.

No I don't. I have had no contact whatsoever with the UK tax office. I have lived here for more than 20 years. Why would I?

[pmarlin]

Yesterday while doing my retirement extension using the Income Letter (American) at CW. I showed a letter along with credit advice/receipt for each FTT to my account at Bangkok Bank for the last 12 months. I was told that is what I would need next year . For 12 months it required 2 letters (they can only put 8 or 9 transfers on a letter) . Cost 200 baht for the 2 letters and 500 baht for the credit advice/receipt forms. Total 700 baht. Cheaper than the embassy income letter. 

[sumrit]

11 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

But they won't understand the documents people can provide. They won't even look at back up for transferwise transfers. Immigration just can't cope with looking at various types of documents to prove income in farangland

But they can still ask to see that information and, if necessary, request those documents are verified by an official source, especially if they think it might be a forged document.

 

They don't need to look at TW documentation. It's up to us, the extension applicant, to provide acceptable proof of the source of the transfer, and Immigration requires that documentation comes from a Thai Bank source.

 

TW say they are in the process of adapting their online transfer request that will comply with the Immigration requirements so 'backup' information will not need to be shown anyway.

[scubascuba3]

But you must have a P60 yes, shows your income and tax deducted.

irrelevant for most people.

"A P60 is a form that shows how much taxable salary the employee was paid in the tax year and how much tax was deducted from their wages. An employer must give aP60 to each of their employees at the end of the tax year"

[mikebell]

2 hours ago, trd said:

 

 

What tax return? I'm on a UK pension which is income but I haven't made a tax return for more than 20 years.

 

Ditto but you can get a P60 from UK Tax dept showing your total earnings  & taxation level.  This SHOULD be enough & straightforward for even the average Immigration officer to understand.  But this will be deemed insufficient.

Someone above mentioned having no alternative.  Wrong - I'm checking out Vietnam to see if they value my pensions more than Thailand.