What is your legal status and consequences if failing to meet a post seasoning bank book check?

[marcusarelus]

10 hours ago, JackThompson said:

We have no idea what they will do, but if I had one of those notices, I would not ignore it.  They could run an app on anything from an ancient TRS-80 to a cheap android-phone which could remind them who has or has-not reported their money.  Whether or how they will do it?  Only they know.

 

You don't have to report if you aren't in the country 90-days continuous.  But when you get back,  you have to report for a TM-30.  They told one person who asked about, "What if I'm not here then," that he had to report on his return.  They can get you one way or the other.

All IO offices require this?  Or what if you live in a hotel?  Hotel reports yes?

[marcusarelus]

11 hours ago, david555 said:

just checking your status , same way as Airport check when swinging your passport  by the scanner  I guess , and see when you  out or incoming in Thailand 

Not what I said.  Make your 90 day report.  Don't take bank book.  How will IO know you are supposed to show bank book?  Surely they can't check everyone - labor cost- so how do they know you have been picked to show your bank book at the end of 90 days? Or it might be 30 days if you have done 90 day report 60 days before extension.  Do you really think they want the labor cost of checking twice?  

[david555]

10 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Not what I said.  Make your 90 day report.  Don't take bank book.  How will IO know you are supposed to show bank book?  Surely they can't check everyone - labor cost- so how do they know you have been picked to show your bank book at the end of 90 days? Or it might be 30 days if you have done 90 day report 60 days before extension.  Do you really think they want the labor cost of checking twice?  

Are you sure they don't make  example a code mark in computer by your name in which category you had your extension 800/400K, 65K , every 90 day they check all the page by a quick look , also this little Thai scrabbles made beside the stamps , you can read them ? I don't 

And about cost of labor ...whenever a government service are taking that in account ?…. private company's yes , but a government.... population as a tax payer pay that …..

Edited March 17, 2019 by david555

[marcusarelus]

20 minutes ago, david555 said:

Are you sure they don't make  example a code mark in computer by your name in which category you had your extension 800/400K, 65K , every 90 day they check all the page by a quick look , also this little Thai scrabbles made beside the stamps , you can read them ? I don't 

And about cost of labor ...whenever a government service are taking that in account ?…. private company's yes , but a government.... population as a tax payer pay that …..

They can't figure out how to do 90 day report online on a consistent basis or to include folks who arrived before a few years ago - I don't see them being computer literate enough to do what you suggest.  Labor is a big problem at IO as offices very understaffed and overworked from what i've seen.  

[marcusarelus]

I really don't think IO have thought it through enough to actually check anyone after the initial extension is granted.  I do my 90 day report 60 days before my extension so, I'm going back in 30 days.  And then again in another 60 days?  Aw come on.  Not going to happen.  They don't want that much traffic. 

[david555]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

They can't figure out how to do 90 day report online on a consistent basis or to include folks who arrived before a few years ago - I don't see them being computer literate enough to do what you suggest.  Labor is a big problem at IO as offices very understaffed and overworked from what i've seen.  

O.K. if you think so , so no worry's for you …., just future shall bring it up how they go solve that 

 

I just handle them same as my conscript army time , jumping thru those stupid hoops ,not saying I liked them , but that time and now , I had not 1 problem so far , and I am 10 years here already , and I find that latest they discovered the digital world quit well ...

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

O.K. if you think so , so no worry's for you …., just future shall bring it up how they go solve that 

 

I just handle them same as my conscript army time , jumping thru those stupid hoops ,not saying I liked them , but that time and now , I had not 1 problem so far , and I am 10 years here already , and I find that latest they discovered the digital world quit well ...

I don't do my own 90 day address reports so no worries for me.  Once an IO that I saw figured it our and put the 90 day reports outside with a separate door.  But it made too much sense and was too efficient - he got fired. 

[Jingthing]

17 hours ago, Grusa said:

I would have more confidence in his analysis if he had prepared himself and his opinions before commiting to air. Self seeking advertising, no useful content.

It's not one of his strongest videos but it was so on topic I thought it was worth posting especially because some people seem to be pushing a head in the sand POV that these aren't REAL issues and concerns. I assume others noticed the ambiguity about the initial 90 day bank book check (if ordered) vs. the question of what happens if you go under during the 400K phase. I think he was saying that the first 90 day check (if ordered) is serious but he failed to say that clearly. He also seems to be assuming there will be further ordered checks later during the 400K phase (that was implied but not stated) but the thing is, he can't know that for a fact either. It's too early. 

[Jingthing]

17 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

Here's a simple solution leave the 800k in the bank year round (allow for currency fluctuations and leave a mil in the bank to be sure) then you won't need to worry about playing financial dodgeball year round.

It's less than 25K AUD.

I'm a bloody pauper and I can afford it !!! lol lol???? 

Man there must be some really poor expat folks living in Thailand that can't afford to save themselves a huge amount of angst and effort by putting 25K AUD in the bank on a fixed deposit and earn a tad interest and report and validate via this method.

 

It is a solution for people that do that.

That's a given.

But sorry, probably the majority of people that have been doing the 800K over the years spend it down and then top up before the next application.

Changing to do as you suggest would indeed be a solution.

But this topic is NOT about that.

It's about the situation for people that either want to (or for whatever reasons need to) continue to spend down and top up. For that set of people, under the new rules, this is a much more restrictive situation. 

Cheers. 

[Jingthing]

16 hours ago, grifbel said:

Not sure what all the drama in the OP's post is.  If failing to meeting the funds for whatever reason, could you not fly to Penang, get a single non-imm O at renewal expiration time, and then restart the process?  Or am I missing something?  Seems like much ado about nothing, unless the 1-2000 baht plane ticket is too much!

Perhaps. 

I'm having a hard time keeping track of the specific rules for actually getting a new single entry O visa in neighboring countries. That seems to be a moving target and depending on the specific rules in effect at the specific time at the specific neighboring country embassy or consulate, I will assert it is not always as simple and easy as you suggest.

Another thing to consider. The communication and coordination between Thai immigration in Thailand and embassies/consulates outside Thailand appears to have improved. Whether that might bite people running away from bank book failure, I can't say. But this kind of constant uncertainty is something that is not a healthy and happy situation for people especially as they age.

 

Cheers. 

[Jingthing]

16 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

How would they know?  If you do a 90 day address report is there a stamp in your passport that says you have been ordered to bring in a bank book?  They can't look at everybody so it must be the honor system that you show them a bank book.

What an incredibly naïve question!

If they give you a paper saying report in 90 days to show bank book, you can be certain that information is in their computer system.

 

[55Jay]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

They can't figure out how to do 90 day report online on a consistent basis or to include folks who arrived before a few years ago - I don't see them being computer literate enough to do what you suggest.  Labor is a big problem at IO as offices very understaffed and overworked from what i've seen.  

LOL, yeah, when I sit and observe the process for my previous marriage extensions, feels like I've been teleported back to the late 80s/early 90s.  My I/O used to grimace and moan about it quietly, she knew things were stupid and would nod her head toward the back office where the much older bosses sat in their private offices. King of a mini empire, the pinnacle of their careers, resistant to change and tech..... as they sit there trading porn on their smart phones and ordering some new socks on Lazada. 

 

I'm just old enough to remember being "forced" to move away from paper and typewriters to computers.  I loved my IBM Selectric and  felt safe with my bank of filing cabinets.  Same as Immigration, I was the monkey with one hand on the 21st century branch, afraid to let go with the other.  And if you touch my 3-hole punch and stapler again, I'm gunna gouge your eyes out with my envelope opener! ????

 

[Jingthing]

15 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Eezy peezy.  You have to report every 90 days.  They would just decline any attempt to report where that documentation isn't provided.  (Edit:  I'm not saying that's happening.  Just that it would be a simple policy to implement)

 

Going one step further, I envision a day when the banks are required to report any expat's account that falls below the required levels.  But that's just a forecast on my part.

 

 

Of course to your first part.

Not sure about the second part.

But don't be shocked either. 

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, mokwit said:

Also IMO he is wrong - I don't know how he is forming these opinions based on the evidence we have. IMO if you do not have 800k at 3 month check you will not have met the conditions of the visa extension, and thus it will be revoked, at that date, but IMO not retroactively - i.e. not on overstay. Similarly if you go below the 400k you have not met conditions so not only will you not be granted a new extension but likely have your visa revoked on the day you show up. On revocation you can leave that day or pay Bt1900 for a 7 day extension IMO.

 

Take it or leave it, but I have been dealing with WP/Visa issues for more than 20years and have seen the changes since Penang stopped issuing back to back visas in the days when there were people were living here for 10+ years doing that.

Here is the weird part.

IF people bother to watch his fuzzy video multiple times, I think they will come to same conclusion. The a bank book report that fails for the first 90 day period (don't go under 800K) WILL result in serious consequences. The don't worry part (again you must watch multiple times to get this) is explicitly mentioned as being about the LATER 400K baht phase. 

For that he is suggesting there won't be further 90 day bank book report requirements after the initial one and that you can probably relax even if you go under 400K.

HOWEVER, and he is also clear about this and I agree, that doesn't mean you won't have a problem with your NEXT annual extension. I would go further and suggest you probably WILL have a problem with your next extension if you go under 400K during that phase.

 

Cheers. 

[mokwit]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

you probably WILL have a problem with your next extension if you go under 400K during that phase.

Why else would they have made this stipulation if going under it did not mean anything. They say they just want to see you have the money and are not using an agent due to no funds - accordingly a figure even materially below 400k could logically still show that you did not go the agent route and had the funds. but I would not like to turn up on renewal date with even Bt399,999 unless I was not concerned whether I got anew extension or not.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Why else would they have made this stipulation if going under it did not mean anything. They say they just want to see you have the money and are not using an agent due to no funds - accordingly a figure even materially below 400k could logically still show that you did not go the agent route and had the funds. but I would not like to turn up on renewal date with even Bt399,999 unless I was not concerned whether I got anew extension or not.

I agree. These rules are serious.

But you're mixing different issues.

The main question in this topic are the consequences of going under during the POST seasoning phases, which are entirely new.

It is my current strong assumption that if you get a 90 day show money report and you've gone under 800, you are screwed big time. Exactly how screwed I do not know. It seems to me they would almost definitely cancel your current annual extension if you did and that's just the beginning. 

 

The question about going under LATER during the 400K phase assuming they will stop checking after that is a quite different question.

 

I think and sounds like you do too, that assuming they don't start ordering subsequent 90 day show bank book reports after the first one, the consequences will show up at next extension (and maybe best to not even apply and instead to just try to start over or exit Thailand if you can't).

[cmarshall]

Here is a simple way to determine how the new restrictions will be interpreted by Thai immigration.

 

1.  Take all the interpretations proposed by the posters on this thread

2.  Add in an arbitrary additional number of different interpretations that will not have occurred to the posters, but will seem quite reasonable to the Thai immigration officers.

3.  Each of the resulting large set of possible rules will all be applied to some applicant at some TM by some immigration officer.

 

The safest approach, if you can afford it, is to choose the most stringent interpretation and remain strictly in conformance with that.  

 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

Here is a simple way to determine how the new restrictions will be interpreted by Thai immigration.

 

1.  Take all the interpretations proposed by the posters on this thread

2.  Add in an arbitrary additional number of different interpretations that will not have occurred to the posters, but will seem quite reasonable to the Thai immigration officers.

3.  Each of the resulting large set of possible rules will all be applied to some applicant at some TM by some immigration officer.

 

The safest approach, if you can afford it, is to choose the most stringent interpretation and remain strictly in conformance with that.  

 

Well I certainly agree that people should make every effort to comply. But some will fail. This topic is about that set of people without making moral judgements because I'm sure that some of the reasons that some people fail will be reasonable but Thai immigration won't be interested to hear their stories. 

[cmarshall]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well I certainly agree that people should make every effort to comply. But some will fail. This topic is about that set of people without making moral judgements because I'm sure that some of the reasons that some people fail will be reasonable but Thai immigration won't be interested to hear their stories. 

Bureaucrats everywhere are ordered to follow the rules, not to use their personal judgment and that's mostly what they do since they want above all to avoid punishment.  Some people will certainly do so, but no one should let that happen in the belief that an immigration officer might overlook it, even though that is possible.

[Baerboxer]

As you know, a lot will depend on what the boss of each individual office decides is required. That will be influenced by what his boss also wants, plus extra bits he/she decides to add on.

 

If they decide to implement a second visit. after 90 days from granting an extension, then if you go under they'll be consequences. A fine? A warning? Cancelling the permission to stay? We'll have to wait and see what each office does and compare.

 

If they decide not to ask for a second visit, but warn you that it will be check-ed on your next renewal, both the 800k for 90 days post application, and then never below 400k, then if you do go below they'll be consequences. I'd guess that would be extension denied, 7 days to leave and told to get a new visa when you have the financials sorted. So out the country and start again.

 

But as you rightly say, we can only guess and speculate. Until we have actual reports and instances to compare.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Well I certainly agree that people should make every effort to comply. But some will fail. This topic is about that set of people without making moral judgements because I'm sure that some of the reasons that some people fail will be reasonable but Thai immigration won't be interested to hear their stories. 

 

I don't think bureaucrats anywhere in the world, government entities, banks, etc are interested in hearing peoples stories. They're not trained to use common sense, intelligence and be overly helpful anymore. It's tick the box or not. 

[mfd101]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

I don't think bureaucrats anywhere in the world, government entities, banks, etc are interested in hearing peoples stories. They're not trained to use common sense, intelligence and be overly helpful anymore. It's tick the box or not. 

And the reason they're not interested in people's stories - good or bad though they may be - is that there are simply TOO MANY PEOPLE!

 

We don't live in villages any more, where people are nice or pretend to be nice to everyone, and there can be a slightly different policy adapted for each individual. We live in huge cities of huge nation-states with millions of citizens. The notion that public servants and governments are going to listen to each individual's story and adapt government policies accordingly is a nonsense. It doesn't happen in The West. Why should anyone expect it to happen here?

[Jingthing]

And the reason they're not interested in people's stories - good or bad though they may be - is that there are simply TOO MANY PEOPLE!

 

We don't live in villages any more, where people are nice or pretend to be nice to everyone, and there can be a slightly different policy adapted for each individual. We live in huge cities of huge nation-states with millions of citizens. The notion that public servants and governments are going to listen to each individual's story and adapt government policies accordingly is a nonsense. It doesn't happen in The West. Why should anyone expect it to happen here?

Not expecting it to happen. Who said anything about expecting it?

 

In the context of this specific topic these excessive seasoning rules including the don't ever break the 400k level are easy enough to see in bank books excluding the confusing mess of combo applications. Can't argue with police following orders.

 

I would argue these new seasoning rules are over the top. Monitoring our bank levels all year even if the impact was only the next year (but it's clearly not limited to that with 90 day after bank book checks) is a level of oversight that is extreme. It feels like a shakeout.

 

Of course the specific question here is what exactly will happen to those in violation.

 

Clearly nobody really knows.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[DrJack54]

5 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

As you know, a lot will depend on what the boss of each individual office decides is required. That will be influenced by what his boss also wants, plus extra bits he/she decides to add on.

 

If they decide to implement a second visit. after 90 days from granting an extension, then if you go under they'll be consequences. A fine? A warning? Cancelling the permission to stay? We'll have to wait and see what each office does and compare.

 

If they decide not to ask for a second visit, but warn you that it will be check-ed on your next renewal, both the 800k for 90 days post application, and then never below 400k, then if you do go below they'll be consequences. I'd guess that would be extension denied, 7 days to leave and told to get a new visa when you have the financials sorted. So out the country and start again.

 

But as you rightly say, we can only guess and speculate. Until we have actual reports and instances to compare.

Finally ONE smart post. I realize the OP is asking different question. I think the op post is important. Many folk will now be caught out. Tough ask to stick to strict new rules. When this was announced I thought f##£. Not happy. However I can afford lock in 800+ fixed deposit and just leave it. Please I'm not being smug. Some folk cannot. The OP raises serious problem for some.

And for those with family etc ..its not a game.

[marcusarelus]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

What an incredibly naïve question!

If they give you a paper saying report in 90 days to show bank book, you can be certain that information is in their computer system.

 

Why since they can't figure out how to get my last entry in so I can do my 90 day online.  Don't seem computer literate to me.  My 90 day report is due 60 days before my extension.  So my first 90 day report is 30 days after my extension and 60 days before my supposed check back date.  You think their computer system can handle this?  Ha ha ha.

Edited March 17, 2019 by marcusarelus

[jacko45k]

On 3/16/2019 at 8:46 PM, grifbel said:

Or am I missing something? 

You might be. You seem to think there is a potential of losing your current extension if you happen to spend some of the 800k else why have to fly to Penang. Is the cancellation backdated putting you on overstay? 

[marcusarelus]

8 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Finally ONE smart post. I realize the OP is asking different question. I think the op post is important. Many folk will now be caught out. Tough ask to stick to strict new rules. When this was announced I thought f##£. Not happy. However I can afford lock in 800+ fixed deposit and just leave it. Please I'm not being smug. Some folk cannot. The OP raises serious problem for some.

And for those with family etc ..its not a game.

Get the money from the family if not a game.  If a game go home. 

[jacko45k]

On 3/16/2019 at 10:01 PM, marcusarelus said:

How will they know if you miss a bank book appointment.  Do you think they have software that will tell them?  

Not yet, a little early for that. Perhaps it will come. Is there perhaps the possibility to simply add comments to your record saying you had been instructed to return on xx/xx/2019 On a subsequent visit it could be noticed.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

Not yet, a little early for that. Perhaps it will come. Is there perhaps the possibility to simply add comments to your record saying you had been instructed to return on xx/xx/2019 On a subsequent visit it could be noticed.

They don't check record when doing 90 day only computer in my experience. 

[jacko45k]

Just now, marcusarelus said:

They don't check record when doing 90 day only computer in my experience. 

Yes similar for me, the option of doing on-line reports is there too to avoid going into immigration, particularly if one has skipped a bring your bankbook instruction! It would just be the next Extension application (re-entry permits can be done at airport). Hopefully no backdating of any punitive reaction!