For Thailand’s sake, let’s move beyond Thaksin

[webfact]

For Thailand’s sake, let’s move beyond Thaksin

By The Nation

 

 

Our shared future depends on ensuring that next weekend’s voting lead to a progressive democracy

 

There are two indisputable facts about Thaksin Shinawatra. First, he was convicted of malfeasance while occupying the Prime Minister’s Office and sentenced to two years in jail by a democratic judicial system at a time when the country was under democratic rule. 

 

Second, he opted to flee punishment at a time when the country was under the democratic leadership of his own political allies. To those who are now arguing online as “defenders of democracy” that the March 24 election represents a prime chance to bring home a politically persecuted man, these two facts alone should be a command to silence.

 

In the years since the court judged Thaksin guilty in the shameful Ratchadapisek land-auction case, memories have become blurred, often opportunistically, sometimes wilfully. This has allowed the narrative to shift, portraying Thaksin as the victim of an elitist conspiracy. 

 

The claim ignores the fact that he fled overseas to avoid being imprisoned for violating a law that had been on the books for many years. The violation occurred while he was premier. The verdict came while his supporters controlled a democratically elected government. These are the inescapable facts.

 

Nor can there be any debate that the imminent election chiefly aims to settle the divisive political dispute stemming from disagreement over Thaksin’s plight. For the good of the country and every citizen, though, we have to move on as a nation. We have to let the gulf be bridged and prevent differences in ideology from holding votes hostage time and again. This is our chance to decide on greater issues with an eye to the future, not the past. 

 

We should be choosing which party can best improve the economy, education and healthcare, can best protect the environment, whether casinos and cannabis should be legal, whether the creative economy and cultural tourism are viable goals, and how prepared we are as a society to embrace the southern Malay Muslims, northern hilltribes and stateless immigrants and LGBT people across the land as our fellow full-fledged citizens.

 

We should be wary of politicians who sow division, and at all costs we should avoid becoming too enamoured of party loyalties, lest we be led astray from nobler, more progressive policies that would see Thailand hailed internationally as more than merely a destination for beach vacationers and sex tourists.

 

Several sensible campaign planks have emerged. Peua Chat wants to give gays and lesbians broader legal rights. The Democrats want to persecute state officials with connections to the illicit drug trade. 

 

Bhumjaithai is pressing for a technology springboard to lifelong free online learning. Chartthaipattana believes farm children should be schooled for free right through university. And there are more fine examples.

 

The bloat and corruption that mire Thai politics and the great Shinawatra-versus-military debate block progress in these and other areas. The main opposing camps, royalist and republican, pay no more than lip service to worthier ideas. They seek to dominate the campaign with divisive rhetoric about events that should be relegated to memory. They are counting on voters remembering the hurt felt over past uprisings and transgressions. Some of this might be acceptable but for the distortions and lies in circulation. 

 

We favour neither camp, but will side with the party best able to show us how it can take us further into democracy’s possibilities.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/opinion/30365912

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2019-03-18

 

[perthuniversity]

the worst article i've read in relation to the election so far

 

totally misses the point

 

 

[Samui Bodoh]

"...For Thailand’s sake, let’s move beyond Thaksin..."

 

Thailand is not going to 'move beyond Thaksin' for a while because of one, very simple reason...

 

If there were genuinely Free and Fair elections here, Thaksin would win. Easily.

 

I know it.

You know it.

He knows it.

Prayut knows it.

The Military know it.

All the security services know it.

All the political parties know it.

All international observers of Thailand know it.

All of Thailand knows it.

All. Every last person.

 

The Democratic will of Thailand is not being respected, and all know it.

 

And, the article brings out the old canard of Thaksin being "convicted". First, it is almost certainly true that he is guilty of something; all of Thailand's leaders fall into that category. However, the article, as usual, misses the point.

 

If all of Thailand's political leaders are guilty of some kind of wrong-doing (and they almost certainly all are), then a 'conviction' of one while all the others get off without a proper investigation and/or proper trial renders that conviction meaningless.

 

When General Rolex is escorted to the 'big house', I'll happily help drag Thaksin there. Until then, spare me the nonsense that the "conviction' matters in the slightest.

 

It is a cheap, meaningless political talking point, nothing more.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2019 by Samui Bodoh

[ezzra]

Thais don't give a hoot for the man himself, only that in his times, there were lots of money around, freebees, grants, debts moratoriums, to tunes of billions, specially at elections times, people had money and the economy was flourishing because of the huge amounts coming from the government most of it in shady dealings, and THAT what the Thai people want and crave, for them who's the politician that will throw more money their way, he's the right man for the job...

[Spidey]

Extremely biased view. Luckily no one reading it will be voting. My wife and all her family will be voting Pheu Thai, as are virtually every other Thai that I've talked to. They will win by a landslide.

 

All to no avail though as the army senate will, by hook or by crook, install Prayut as prime minister. A complete sham.

[YetAnother]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

ensuring that next weekend’s voting lead to a progressive democracy

thailand isnt ready for anything close to that, will settle with getting the military off authoritarian rule

[OneMoreFarang]

44 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

When General Rolex is escorted to the 'big house', I'll happily help drag Thaksin there. Until then, spare me the nonsense that the "conviction' matters in the slightest.

It's always sad when people compare these cases. It's like comparing a mass murderer with a guy who hit someone once with a fist. Yes, they both did wrong but on a totally different scale.

Thaksin was not only super corrupt, he also didn't even try to hide it. I read the news every day when he was in power and I always thought: How can he get away with that, it's so obvious.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

There are two indisputable facts about Thaksin Shinawatra. First, he was convicted of malfeasance while occupying the Prime Minister’s Office and sentenced to two years in jail by a democratic judicial system at a time when the country was under democratic rule. 

 

Second, he opted to flee punishment at a time when the country was under the democratic leadership of his own political allies. To those who are now arguing online as “defenders of democracy” that the March 24 election represents a prime chance to bring home a politically persecuted man, these two facts alone should be a command to silence.

And fact #3 is that most Thais ignore facts and logic. If people would look at facts and if they would make logical decisions based on facts then they wouldn't elect criminals and expect and honest government. But Thais again and again vote for the same criminals and somehow they "think" somehow things will improve. That won't happen. But how to explain that to buffaloes?

[JAG]

8 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It's always sad when people compare these cases. It's like comparing a mass murderer with a guy who hit someone once with a fist. Yes, they both did wrong but on a totally different scale.

Thaksin was not only super corrupt, he also didn't even try to hide it. I read the news every day when he was in power and I always thought: How can he get away with that, it's so obvious.

Whilst I agree with the principle that comparing cases is a meaningless exercise, and I appreciate that you read the new every day when he was in power; I do wonder whether you have been reading the news for the last four years?

Edited March 17, 2019 by JAG

[leeneeds]

The money to buy votes is already flowing, 500 baht to attend this rally speech, 200 baht to attend another parties speech, collecting names in the soi as to who is going to vote for who

this week it will be even more intense,

corruption is offered,

 expected !

and eagerly taken.

That is reality.

 

[samsensam]

5 minutes ago, leeneeds said:

The money to buy votes is already flowing, 500 baht to attend this rally speech, 200 baht to attend another parties speech, collecting names in the soi as to who is going to vote for who

this week it will be even more intense,

corruption is offered,

 expected !

and eagerly taken.

That is reality.

 

 

absolutely, the system is rotten to the core.

 

over the weekend i mentioned the election to two friends, both told me vote buying was rampant - but not in every province, and i asked if they would accept the money - both said yes but also said they would not vote for the party that gave them the money - because they disagreed with corruption!

[colinneil]

Thaksin was corrupt, present mob corrupt, Thaksin did not hide it, present mob lie about being corrupt, try hiding it, borrowing watches from a dead friend, if that is not corrupt what is.

Most folk here do not care about who is corrupt, they only care about what can i get from them.

The party/person who gives them the most will get their vote, policies etc be damned, money is all they care about.

Edited March 17, 2019 by colinneil

[bluesofa]

2 minutes ago, colinneil said:

Thaksin was corrupt, present mob corrupt, Thaksin did not hide it, present mob lie about being corrupt, try hiding it, borrowing watches from a dead friend, if that is not corrupt what is.

Most folk here do not care about who is corrupt, they only care about what can i get from them.

The party/person who gives them the most will get their vote, policies etc be damned, money is all they care about.

<cynical mode on>

Thainess

<cynical mode off>

[Lungstib]

Being here for quite a few years before Thaksins rise to power it was quite obvious that Thailands politics was already a shambles. When Prem stood down there was instant corrupt activity, probably equal to that taking place when he was in power but now out in the open. Chatchai's buffet cabinet was infamous and illegal logging was so rampant it was depicted in a cartoon with a forest of tree stumps. That led us back to the military via Sunthorn and Suchinda. And that ended in violence and killings. The problem is and has always been that politicians have 'persuaded' police and justice officials to take sides and laws have simply been bent and broken. Then the military come back and it all goes underground by silencing the media, scaring the populous and stopping the scandals coming out. Thaksin just epitomises the political way, and now Prayuth the military way. Both use the lack of proper laws to try to get more for themselves and both have no love for the general public. Finding someone to vote for that cares for your ideas and opinions is the real problem for the students, farmers, factory workers and young entrepreneurs of today. Selflessly serving others doesn't appear to be a common trait.  

An after thought; Thaksin is just emulating the military, he wont give in. Just like they keep coming back albeit with different faces, father and now son.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Lungstib
addition

[Denim]

' Let's move beyond Thaksin ' says the Nation.

 

Then follows a long diatribe about guess who .... Thaksin.

 

About time the Nations editorial staff moved beyond Thaksin.

 

And if they could attempt this they might also want to consider what democracy means instead of pontificating about something they have no understanding off.

[SheungWan]

Moving beyond Thaksin with Thaksin sitting on your shoulder.

[Thaiwrath]

I think the message should be............ for Thailand's sake, lets move beyond undemocratic, unelected military rule !

Edited March 18, 2019 by Thaiwrath

[mfd101]

Nothing will change until The People - urban poor and peasants, allied with urban middle class - rise up and persuade the junior military (themselves mostly poor boys & conscripts) to support them in overthrowing the whole rotten system.

 

Might be a long wait, though minor violence can get out of hand very quickly and with unpredictable outcomes.

[canuckamuck]

Nothing will change until a pro-rule-of-law candidate appears on the scene. However, corruption is the system they understand so it's more efficient to work within a familiar framework.

[Jimbo2014]

Ensuring that Thailand is ready for a progressive democracy.  I think the author needs to review the definition of democracy.  I thought that under the constitution, the upper house was not for election but selection by the military - am I wrong?

[madmitch]

The country can't seem to let go of Thaksin, and I don't just mean the Pheu Thai voting populace.

 

I also mean politicians of all parties (Sonthi's claim that Abhisit, by denouncing any affiliation with the junta, is a Thaksin supporter, for example) and, more than anything, the Thai press who are forever writing about Thaksin - this article is just one example.

 

Isn't there more to Thai politics than Thaksin v the army?

[Pilotman]

2 hours ago, YetAnother said:

thailand isnt ready for anything close to that, will settle with getting the military off authoritarian rule

I agree, Democracy does not suit Thailand, it never has.   Strangely perhaps, the proposed split of power after the election is not a bad compromise for this country and may just lead to longer term stability.  It will not of course advance the development of the Nation, but you can't have everything here. Thailand will never be a Singapore, but we should remember that SIN is a very authoritarian and controlling regime. 

[boonrawdcnx]

Ensuring next weekends voting leads to a progressive democracy ??? Is this some kind of a bad joke ?

 

Has the Nation missed the systematic undermining and dismantling of exactly that progressive democracy over the last few years???

The replacement of any fairly independent agency within the fragile democratic framework with Prayuth’s cronies, the rigging of the election before it is even held gives hope for progressive democracy?

Where was the outrage of the Thai press during the last few years when the little democracy you had was trampled upon and almost every law of this country was broken by criminals who then pardoned THEMSELVES!

 

And you are still talking about Thaksin? I think he is the least problem Thailand currently has to worry about!

Does the Nation not get it that Thaksin was part of exactly the same criminal clique that is running things from behind the scenes in this country until he fell out of favor?

Citing court convictions by what court?

The same kangaroo courts that got him off from his assets concealment charges on the orders of the same criminal clique behind the scenes which can make any court case go either way?

This idiotic mentioning of legal procedures whenever it is convenient and serves a purpose - proceedings that can be bent either way in this country by people “of influence” are making a mockery of the legal process and are totally meaningless!

People are sick and tired of hearing the very people who keep breaking the law constantly arguing that they act according to the law but only whenever it suits them!

What does the Nation want to tell us? That Thaksin and his cronies were corrupt ? For crying out loud tell us something we don’t know - name ONE government that is/ was not corrupt! Even Chuan Lekpai stumbled over corruption by others in his government.

 

Face it The Nation as long as the criminal clique that runs things from behind the scenes makes a mockery out the judiciary nothing will ever change.

A country in which some people think they are above the law because they have created laws and a climate of fear threatening and punishing people who speak out, preventing justice being served to criminals who think they own this country is doomed on the long run.

Every country has corruption and it is an independent judiciary that applies the law without favor or fear which sets countries apart and which stops the corrupt scoundrels sooner or later.

 

As long as this criminal clique controls, undermines, destroys and manipulates the independence of the judiciary - this country will always be what others call - a banana republic!

There is no hope for Thailand until the day the law is applied to all equally or at least tries to achieve that goal for a start - and that day is far, far away !

Hoping that this sham of an election will change anything and produces “progressive democracy” is naive and wishful thinking at best !

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

[Eric Loh]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It's always sad when people compare these cases. It's like comparing a mass murderer with a guy who hit someone once with a fist. Yes, they both did wrong but on a totally different scale.

Thaksin was not only super corrupt, he also didn't even try to hide it. I read the news every day when he was in power and I always thought: How can he get away with that, it's so obvious.

Thaksin was indeed corrupted and fortunately he didn't get away with it. Convicted, exiled and half his fortune confiscated. How then did the establishment, junta and their aligned politicians get away with so much corruption and blood on their hands. You make a weak and prejudice case as always.   

[Mainhattencitizen]

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...For Thailand’s sake, let’s move beyond Thaksin..."

 

Thailand is not going to 'move beyond Thaksin' for a while because of one, very simple reason...

 

If there were genuinely Free and Fair elections here, Thaksin would win. Easily.

 

I know it.

You know it.

He knows it.

Prayut knows it.

The Military know it.

All the security services know it.

All the political parties know it.

All international observers of Thailand know it.

All of Thailand knows it.

All. Every last person.

 

The Democratic will of Thailand is not being respected, and all know it.

 

And, the article brings out the old canard of Thaksin being "convicted". First, it is almost certainly true that he is guilty of something; all of Thailand's leaders fall into that category. However, the article, as usual, misses the point.

 

If all of Thailand's political leaders are guilty of some kind of wrong-doing (and they almost certainly all are), then a 'conviction' of one while all the others get off without a proper investigation and/or proper trial renders that conviction meaningless.

 

When General Rolex is escorted to the 'big house', I'll happily help drag Thaksin there. Until then, spare me the nonsense that the "conviction' matters in the slightest.

 

It is a cheap, meaningless political talking point, nothing more.

 

 

For Thailand`s sake, let`s move beyond Prayut

[johnmcc6]

He is no more corrupt than the multitudes of rich and powerful people. At least he cared for the poor and did many positive things to make life easier for many. Lets hope someone can come on the scene with his good qualities and not just be after wealth and power,

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It's always sad when people compare these cases. It's like comparing a mass murderer with a guy who hit someone once with a fist. Yes, they both did wrong but on a totally different scale.

Thaksin was not only super corrupt, he also didn't even try to hide it. I read the news every day when he was in power and I always thought: How can he get away with that, it's so obvious.

Whilst I agree with the principle that comparing cases is a meaningless exercise, and I appreciate that you read the new every day when he was in power; I do wonder whether you have been reading the news for the last four years?

Yes, I still follow the news everyday. And there is no question that our current rulers are also not exactly clean.

And I am aware of the fact that we read in the news only part of what is going on.

 

All in all I still think what Thaksin did was a lot worse than what the current people in charge are doing. Part of it is probably also the fact that Thaksin just had to rub it in all the time. It was not enough that he was corrupt and it was not enough that he preferred people who voted for him. He had to tell everybody all the time that he gets away with his crimes and he was proud to work only for the Thais who voted for him.

I don't think Prayut or anybody of the current crowd is even half as bad as Thaksin.

[johnmcc6]

1 minute ago, johnmcc6 said:

He is no more corrupt than the multitudes of rich and powerful people. At least he cared for the poor and did many positive things to make life easier for many. Lets hope someone can come on the scene with his good qualities and not just be after wealth and power,

I should have finished with ,does such a person even exist?

[holy cow cm]

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

And, the article brings out the old canard of Thaksin being "convicted". First, it is almost certainly true that he is guilty of something; all of Thailand's leaders fall into that category. However, the article, as usual, misses the point.

 

But not under self given amnesty and article 44 they aren't. 

[MisterPenguin]

Whilst I agree that Thailand needs to move beyond Thaksin (in the sense of moving beyond the conflict centred upon Thaksin), this article is not the way to do it. The Nation has been an anti-Thaksin publication for years, and many would claim that Thaivisa is equally skewed (which boils down to TV being more concerned with reflecting the views of it's management than providing a genuine forum for the exchange of views by ex-pats - IMHO).

 

This article does not do anyone any favours; it's bias is obvious and robs it of any credibility among those who are of a different view and who might be persuaded to change their view, and the same bias ensures it appeals mainly to ex-pats of a certain mindset, whom many would argue are not likely to change their view anyway.

 

Lose/lose.

 

But then I suppose it's true that nobody went broke underestimating the intelligence of [the population] (origin of the original quote disputed but likely to have been either P.T. Barnum of H.L Mencken).

 

Look at Fox News in the USA for an excellent illustration of this principle.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by MisterPenguin