2 hours ago, Spidey said:

Any deal was a deal based on what the EU were prepared to offer. We had no bargaining chips. Whoever went to Brussels would have come back with a pretty much identical deal. Smart people, like myself, predicted this outcome, even before the referendum, let alone in the late stages of the game.

 

Hand on heart, if, before the referendum, I thought that we could have a clean break from the EU, without too much financial hardship and ultimately beneficial to jobs and the economy (all of which was promised by the leave campaign), I would certainly have voted to leave. However, it was a complete fantasy, a pink unicorn, the EU were never going to let us leave on such terms.

 

I genuinely feel sorry for Brexiteers, their dreams shattered and only left with a bitter taste in their mouths.

You now only have one remedy. Swallow your stubborn pride and vote remain at the next referendum, if you get the chance.

If it ever gets to the next referendum I shall still stand by my original vote which was to leave.

 

Nothing over the past years by the Remainers has caused to to change my opinion.

 

I have no stubborn pride as you call it to lose.

 

Why don't you lose your stubborn pride and vote to leave.

 

You know it makes sense.

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

The EU's losses are spread across 27 countries. Our losses are ours alone. No one European country stands to lose anywhere near what Britain stands to lose.

 

It's a complete nonsense to suggest that the entire existence of the EU is at stake.

No, it's not nonsense. You are, of course, entitled to another opinion, and appreciate that. That's the nature of democracy.

 

My opinion is that Brexit will cause serious damage to the EU for three reasons:

1. The financial loss of UK leaving EU will have to be covered by the other member states, many of which are on a discounted membership fee agreed years ago. This agreement will have to be broken and eventually, taxpayers in each country will have to pick up the bill. That'll go down well in public support for EU. Not.

2. Immigration and a Federalist approach to governance are likely to send at least one, possibly two more countries out of EU within 3 years if the UK exits successfully. If that happens, the whole thing will collapse by itself. My analysis. I could, of course, be wrong.

3. Contrary to yourself and leftist media, I don't believe the UK's economy will be harmed by Brexit. However, the political loss in Brussels will be enormous unless the UK goes bankrupt. And it won't. 

 

A good thing to keep in mind when discussing Brexit:

EU-Exports are 13% of the UK economy.

 

13%.

 

Let that sink in.

4 hours ago, Forethat said:

4 hours ago, Spidey said:

May played that card by constantly threatening the no deal Brexit. As Britain had far more to lose than the EU, they called her bluff. You can only play that card once.

What makes you think UK have far more to lose? 

I think you need to put it to prospective are you talking  Billions of Euros or % of GDP?

 

1 hour ago, Forethat said:

A good thing to keep in mind when discussing Brexit:

EU-Exports are 13% of the UK economy.

 

13%.

 

Let that sink in.

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851

 

• "The EU, taken as a whole is the UK’s largest trading partner. In 2017, UK exports to the EU were £274 billion (44% of all UK exports). UK imports from the EU were £341 billion (53% of all UK imports)."

That's 44% of exports (not 13%). Let that sink in.

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

Thank you very much for calling me and over 17 million other people gullible and stupid.

 

A typical Remainer situation where if you don't like a post or don't get your own way you simply insult people. I used to do that but as I left junior school I grew out of it.

 

If you are so set on Brexit being cancelled why didn't more than the 16 million of you get off your <deleted> and vote against it.

 

I live in Thailand and before the referendum I made sure that I was entitled to vote (I still am) and registered my vote with my proxy voter. It took time and effort on my part and that of the electoral officer and it worked.

 

Please don't blame those who voted FOR Brexit, but blame the 13 odd million voters who simply didn't vote.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/brits-who-didnt-vote-in-the-eu-referendum-now-wish-they-voted-against-brexit-a7326401.html

 

Just less than 28% of registered Brits did not vote in the June EU referendum -- that is about 13 million people.

Leave's margin of victory was 1,269,501 votes. It sounds a lot. But when you consider 13 million potential voters, for whatever reason, did not participate, you realise just how significant an increased turnout could have been.

 

If you extrapolate that out and say 50/50 votes added to each side the winning margin would have been even larger.

Oh Please do not say the referendum was fair and without fraud...

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851

 

• "The EU, taken as a whole is the UK’s largest trading partner. In 2017, UK exports to the EU were £274 billion (44% of all UK exports). UK imports from the EU were £341 billion (53% of all UK imports)."

That's 44% of exports (not 13%). Let that sink in.

Did I say 13% of exports or 13% of UK economy..? I bet that won't ever sink in...

As this thread is about the march that happened last weekend, we have established a few things. Firstly that the ridiculous amount of over a million reported by many news papers is fake news. It is simply a lie.

 

We have also established that the so called petition that remainers seem to believe, gives some sort of credibility for a new referendum result, which is flawed in many ways, as it is so easy for anyone to sign the petition. multiple times.

 

The more I look at footage as it emerges on the internet and also the pictures, I would like to question just how many are actually British citizens on the march. With signs like we love EU, EU best and Breixt bad, really questions the fact, either there are lots of non British, second language learners or that those who marched, are indeed quite illiterate.  I would suggest it is the first one.

10 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

As this thread is about the march that happened last weekend, we have established a few things. Firstly that the ridiculous amount of over a million reported by many news papers is fake news. It is simply a lie.

 

We have also established that the so called petition that remainers seem to believe, gives some sort of credibility for a new referendum result, which is flawed in many ways, as it is so easy for anyone to sign the petition. multiple times.

 

The more I look at footage as it emerges on the internet and also the pictures, I would like to question just how many are actually British citizens on the march. With signs like we love EU, EU best and Breixt bad, really questions the fact, either there are lots of non British, second language learners or that those who marched, are indeed quite illiterate.  I would suggest it is the first one.

Utter hogwash.

 

And all this ‘how many where actually British citizens’.

 

Here’s a question that can be answered.

 

How’s your Brexit going?

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Utter hogwash.

 

And all this ‘how many where actually British citizens’.

 

Here’s a question that can be answered.

 

How’s your Brexit going?

So come on Sherlock how many were Brirish citizens.

 

Hows Brexit going! It is going the same as it has been since 24th June 2016. The politicians and media, followed by the reamainers are doing their very best to stop it, by whatever means possible, crying and stamping their feet like children. No doubt they will continue to until the very end, sprouting anti democratic rhetoric like lets have a 2nd vote before the first one is even implemented. Is that good enough for you Chomps.

 

We even have the same attitude and contempt by many posters on here.

 

Their problem perhaps is giving us a massive reason to do so..by the way..one of my best mates over here is a german..hates merkel and loves the anti immigration party..afb or afd..not sure of the title[emoji6]

No, I'm sure they won't, but that fact won't stop them from resisting any minor pressure from the UK. They've never forgiven us for flattening Hamburg, a fact that I can attest to. But that's a long story for another thread.

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this is the way of the left. keep voting till you get your way and silence all opposition through hate inspired rhetoric. sounds more like totalitarianism than democracy. i don't really care one way or the other, I won't be visiting the Islamic capital of England any time soon.

3 minutes ago, Peasandmash said:

this is the way of the left. keep voting till you get your way and silence all opposition through hate inspired rhetoric. sounds more like totalitarianism than democracy. i don't really care one way or the other, I won't be visiting the Islamic capital of England any time soon.

It’s the Tories running the show.

 

Since when did the Tory party become ‘the left’!

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s the Tories running the show.

 

Since when did the Tory party become ‘the left’!

I disagree with the first para. - as IMO it's the remainer MP's running the show.

 

Agree with your second para. insofar as it annoys me intensely when I read these 'left/right wing labels' describing either brexiteers or remainers.

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s the Tories running the show.

 

Since when did the Tory party become ‘the left’!

There are no bit part players in Parliament, everyone has a part to play. And surely can be said that whatever the deal was to be voted on, the likes of Labour, SNP and others would not support it, they are playing politics instead of putting the country first. The Labour Party are playing the fiddle whilst the UK burns. No two MPs can agree on anything, it's become a contest of who can score the most points.

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

There are no bit part players in Parliament, everyone has a part to play. And surely can be said that whatever the deal was to be voted on, the likes of Labour, SNP and others would not support it, they are playing politics instead of putting the country first. The Labour Party are playing the fiddle whilst the UK burns. No two MPs can agree on anything, it's become a contest of who can score the most points.

Please do tell me.

 

Which members of the Labour Party were in attendance amongst the UK's negotiating team?

Which member of the Labour Party took part in formulating the UK's negotiating strategy, setting the UK's requirements or any of the UK's 'red lines'?

 

Tory Brexit, Tory mess.

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Please do tell me.

 

Which members of the Labour Party were in attendance amongst the UK's negotiating team?

Which member of the Labour Party took part in formulating the UK's negotiating strategy, setting the UK's requirements or any of the UK's 'red lines'?

 

Tory Brexit, Tory mess.

In all fairness Dianne Abbott was asked, but she got the dates mixed up.

 

But what would have been the point in involving Labour when they are the remain party, Brexit was about leaving.

9 hours ago, Basil B said:

Oh Please do not say the referendum was fair and without fraud...

OK I won't say "Oh Please do not say the referendum was fair and without fraud..."

 

There is no point, as you have said it for me.

6 hours ago, Forethat said:

Did I say 13% of exports or 13% of UK economy..? I bet that won't ever sink in...

Well obviously a large part of any economy is what people make and sell to one another within that country. However since the effect of Brexit will be overwhelmingly on exports and imports I would have thought it was a pretty pointless to compare those with overall GDP in the context of this debate. What do we want with all those fancy Continental foods anyway, we can eat a magnificent array of tasty home grown root vegetables!

9 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Well obviously a large part of any economy is what people make and sell to one another within that country. However since the effect of Brexit will be overwhelmingly on exports and imports I would have thought it was a pretty pointless to compare those with overall GDP in the context of this debate. What do we want with all those fancy Continental foods anyway, we can eat a magnificent array of tasty home grown root vegetables!

Or, we can go on exactly like before and eat peppers and strawberries grown in Kent, and other "fancy continental foods" if and when we like. Which is the most likely outcome even if UK crashes out of the EU. There will be fancy continental food available even after Brexit. If you have read something else in the Guardian you've been scammed.

 

We run a trade deficit with a majority of EU-countries. In round figures, the deficit with the EU is £67 Billion (2017). That's one incentive for the EU to get a trade deal in place faster than Guy Verhoftwat can say "The European Federation of States". And their incentive is £67 billion bigger than ours. So the question we should ask ourselves is: "would Germany and France rather export their wine and fancy cars to the UK or are they going to watch as USA and Japan put trade deals in place to sell their wine and cars at a more competitive rates...?" (French farmers would LOVE that...).

 

However, as I said before, I think the financial aspects of Brexit are negligible. The biggest stake here is what happens to the EU if the UK leaves successfully - without going bankrupt. 

Easy answer..the german tax payer becomes the atm for brussels

Or, we can go on exactly like before and eat peppers and strawberries grown in Kent, and other "fancy continental foods" if and when we like. Which is the most likely outcome even if UK crashes out of the EU. There will be fancy continental food available even after Brexit. If you have read something else in the Guardian you've been scammed.
 
We run a trade deficit with a majority of EU-countries. In round figures, the deficit with the EU is £67 Billion (2017). That's one incentive for the EU to get a trade deal in place faster than Guy Verhoftwat can say "The European Federation of States". And their incentive is £67 billion bigger than ours. So the question we should ask ourselves is: "would Germany and France rather export their wine and fancy cars to the UK or are they going to watch as USA and Japan put trade deals in place to sell their wine and cars at a more competitive rates...?" (French farmers would LOVE that...).
 
However, as I said before, I think the financial aspects of Brexit are negligible. The biggest stake here is what happens to the EU if the UK leaves successfully - without going bankrupt. 

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38 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Or, we can go on exactly like before and eat peppers and strawberries grown in Kent, and other "fancy continental foods" if and when we like. Which is the most likely outcome even if UK crashes out of the EU. There will be fancy continental food available even after Brexit. If you have read something else in the Guardian you've been scammed.

 

We run a trade deficit with a majority of EU-countries. In round figures, the deficit with the EU is £67 Billion (2017). That's one incentive for the EU to get a trade deal in place faster than Guy Verhoftwat can say "The European Federation of States". And their incentive is £67 billion bigger than ours. So the question we should ask ourselves is: "would Germany and France rather export their wine and fancy cars to the UK or are they going to watch as USA and Japan put trade deals in place to sell their wine and cars at a more competitive rates...?" (French farmers would LOVE that...).

 

However, as I said before, I think the financial aspects of Brexit are negligible. The biggest stake here is what happens to the EU if the UK leaves successfully - without going bankrupt. 

"However, as I said before, I think the financial aspects of Brexit are negligible."

 

I have to disagree, as I think 'the money' is the most important point for the eu......

1 hour ago, vogie said:

In all fairness Dianne Abbott was asked, but she got the dates mixed up.

 

But what would have been the point in involving Labour when they are the remain party, Brexit was about leaving.

In all fairness it is the Brexiteers who got their dates mixed up.

 

What’s the latest date you are shouting ‘Out means Out!’ at?

lets face it if we quietly stayed in the EU, most Brexiteers wouldn't notice and still think we'd left.

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

In all fairness it is the Brexiteers who got their dates mixed up.

 

What’s the latest date you are shouting ‘Out means Out!’ at?

Why aree remainers never interested in discussing the 'interesting' points?

 

They were fascinated by the gina miller court case - but have no interest (as far as I can see) in genuine democracy?

1 hour ago, Forethat said:

 

Well all these politicians promised that the UK would leave the EU by 11:00 pm (GMT) yesterday. Today we are STILL in the EU.

 

What went wrong?

 

Did parliament and the PM somehow forgot what date 29th March was?

 

Did they forget their objective in carrying out the wishes of the people?

 

Do they believe that they are superior to the common people who can be completely ignored?

 

I really believe that at the next election there WILL be a clearout of the current group of MPs on all sides of the house.

 

Dear PM now is the time to listen to the people who elected you and all the other MPs and do the job you are paid to do.

 

Then you can quit being the PM and hopefully quit being an MP.

Just now, billd766 said:

Well all these politicians promised that the UK would leave the EU by 11:00 pm (GMT) yesterday. Today we are STILL in the EU.

 

What went wrong?

 

Did parliament and the PM somehow forgot what date 29th March was?

 

Did they forget their objective in carrying out the wishes of the people?

 

Do they believe that they are superior to the common people who can be completely ignored?

 

I really believe that at the next election there WILL be a clearout of the current group of MPs on all sides of the house.

 

Dear PM now is the time to listen to the people who elected you and all the other MPs and do the job you are paid to do.

 

Then you can quit being the PM and hopefully quit being an MP.

As said you can't vote the earth to be flat - Brexit just can't happen.

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

In all fairness it is the Brexiteers who got their dates mixed up.

 

What’s the latest date you are shouting ‘Out means Out!’ at?

Cough - it should have been the 29th March.

 

It's now been changed to 12th April - and undoubtedly will be moved even further ahead into the future by MPs and the eu......