Thai voters go to polls as coup-leader, 'democratic front' face off

[bergan]

Just now, thequietman said:

It's kicked off in Bangkok!

 

Future Forward finding that votes cast for parties is in excess of the number of people that voted in that constituency.

 

Demanding a re-count. 

 

And so it begins. ????

Time for popcorn, I guess.

[Eligius]

I am noticing that a few more people are coming out of the woodwork on Thaivisa Forum in support of the militarists. I think that as the (undoubtedly spotlessly honest and truthful) 'result' of the election gives renewed strength to the militarists and especially when Prayut is annointed democratic P.M. - we will see a return of a lot more pro-militarists and fascists to these threads!

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, candide said:

As an accountant you should understand that the comparison is only possible in constituencies where PPT presented a candidate. The original plan was to share constituencies with Thai Raksa. With Thai Raksa dissolved there is no count of pro-Thaksin votes in its constituencies. It is likely that a large share of the pro-Thakskin voters in these constituencies voted for Future Forward instead.

There is no way of knowing this but if it makes you feel better then so be it. Fact remains that even if you count ALL votes of the future forward party towards the PTP they STILL preformed worse then in 2011. So there is no debate possible about the fact that the PTP is in decline. 

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by robblok

[madmen]

2 minutes ago, thequietman said:

It's kicked off in Bangkok!

 

Future Forward finding that votes cast for parties is in excess of the number of people that voted in that constituency.

 

Demanding a re-count. 

 

And so it begins. ????

zzzzzzzzzzzzz  why not nothing to lose ????

[pornprong]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

If you call that linked then you and I have a different idea of linked. But I do agree they are both pro democracy but that does not mean you can ad those votes to those of the PTP and say look the PTP is still popluar while in fact that together with the democrats they were the biggest losers if you compare it with 2011. 

 

Thai Raksa Chart was (wrongfully) disbanded.

 

Due to the timing of the disbandment the 100 constituencies that Pheu Thai did not contest to make room for their sister party now had no Thaksin aligned candidates.

 

Pheu Thai (and Thaksin) actively encouraged their supporters in those constituencies to support Future Forward.

 

Had Thai Raksa Chart not been disbanded, Future Forwards vote would not be at the level it currently sits at.

 

They are well and truly linked to Pheu Thai and Thaksin and will remain uncomfortable bedfellows until democracy is restored.

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/pro-thanathorn-website-pulls-support-for-future-forward-party/

 

 

[sjaak327]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Als a huge loss of face to all the people here who predicted a landslide victory for PTP. If i calculate it its only 34,6% of the votes far less then in previous election. Seems like that they lost quite a few votes too.

Democrats lost a lot too.

 

Will be hard making a coalition that is for sure.

Really, I would say 173 seats is a landlside, considering those seats are grabbed by a single party. It seems to indicate they haven't really lost all that much in terms of popularity. It just confirms what many have been saying. I know you failed to see what a huge victory this is for PT, but considering the unlevel playing field, those 34.6 probably means just as much as the 48% they gained previously. 

 

I knew you would fail to consider all the variables !

[pornprong]

12 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Definitely no cheating from the militarists' side. No lying of any kind. They would NEVER, EVER do such a thing, would they?

Regardless of any cheating and the rigged system, the fact remains that millions of Thais have chosen to vote for continued military rule.

Not being willing to risk death or jail through activism can most certainly be excused but voting as these millions have cannot.

The people of Thailand have no one to blame but themselves for whatever becomes of their country after today.

[sjaak327]

1 hour ago, Eligius said:

I would think that would have to be Future Forward - under Thanathorn. He is a true internationalist and progressive.

I never understood the love for future forward. To be quite frank, the roots of it's leader doesn't really signal any convidence. It seems the electorate has their doubts too. 

[Eligius]

And now it is time to ask the all-important question (which I and others have been speaking about for months in advance): Who is going to dare demand PROOF that the 'count' of the vote is true, honest and accurate? What outside body (TRULY independent) is going to risk the wrath of the junta and demand unfettered access to ALL the relevant votes, vote-collection and vote-counting?

 

The junta still have guns and tanks and lawcourts and -  everything ....

[NanLaew]

4 minutes ago, madmen said:

Prayut has done well learning on the job and kept the country stable and tackled corruption like nobody before him. People need to respect the decisions of the Thai people and stop the frigging rigging nonsense.

Yes. One shining example of tackling corruption is how in April last year, he 'hired' Sontaya Khunplome to act as his political adviser since he professed to knowing nothing about being a politician. Sontaya had previously been an executive of Thai Rak Thai but had been banned from politics for 5 years back in 2007. Sontaya's hard work was rewarded with being made the mayor of Pattaya last September, restoring a Khunplome to a mayoral position that was previously held by his brother Itthipol Khunplome but the position was suspended by the rules of Article 44 after his term expired in 2016. Chonburi is Khunplome country and previously been represented in government by Sontaya's independent Phalang Chon party. In the 2011 general election, the party won seven seats: one party-list seat and six constituencies. All of the seats won, represent Chonburi Province, Sontaya's home province and Phalang Chon's only stronghold. However, that party never registered for this election and Chonburi has now been safely delivered to PPP.

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Really, I would say 173 seats is a landlside, considering those seats are grabbed by a single party. It seems to indicate they haven't really lost all that much in terms of popularity. It just confirms what many have been saying. I know you failed to see what a huge victory this is for PT, but considering the unlevel playing field, those 34.6 probably means just as much as the 48% they gained previously. 

 

I knew you would fail to consider all the variables !

I knew you would look for excuses to hide the fact that they have lost a huge number of votes. 

 

Even if you add all the votes for future forward to the PTP they still don't have the same numbers as in 2011. So sorry to burst your burble. 

 

Maybe you should check the dictionary about landslide victory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landslide_victory

 

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by robblok

[madmen]

2 minutes ago, Eligius said:

And now it is time to ask the all-important question (which I and others have been speaking about for months in advance): Who is going to dare demand PROOF that the 'count' of the vote is true, honest and accurate? What outside body (TRULY independent) is going to risk the wrath of the junta and demand unfettered access to ALL the relevant votes, vote-collection and vote-counting?

 

The junta still have guns and tanks and lawcourts and -  everything ....

Its ironic everybody demands a democracy and then demand a recount because... well .. it just aint fair! 

[CLW]

Long live the Jaunta and the stability they have brought to Thailand.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

What stability?
Economy is going down, Corruption still exists, Cutting down on human rights, freedom of speech and free press!

Yeah, they did an excellent job!

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[thequietman]

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, pornprong said:

Regardless of any cheating and the rigged system, the fact remains that millions of Thais have chosen to vote for continued military rule.

Not being willing to risk death or jail through activism can most certainly be excused but voting as these millions have cannot.

The people of Thailand have no one to blame but themselves for whatever becomes of their country after today.

Quite surprising actually that so many voted for the junta. Seems they do have some support. 

 

Not sure why you would blame all Thais.. also those that did not vote for the junta for what is happening. Surely only those who voted pro junta would be to blame not those who voted against.

 

I never ever expected the junta to become the second party. You might not believe me but I am not happy about that. 

[NanLaew]

18 minutes ago, robblok said:

There is no way of knowing this... 

Correct. But then...

 

19 minutes ago, robblok said:

... So there is no debate possible about the fact that the PTP is in decline. 

How can a fact be based on something that you agree we have no way of knowing?

 

The fact is that the Thai Raksa Chart (PTP proxy) horse was royally nobbled before it even got to the starting gate. 

[Inn Between]

"The election will determine the make up of Thailand’s parliament, which has 500 elected seats. Those elected lawmakers and 250 unelected senators, appointed by the junta, will decide who becomes prime minister."

 

Reports here in Canada show the Junta Party trailing the Pheu Thai but the latter without enough seats to form a majority gov't. So, if a coalition gov't is formed and the senate, who have been all been appointed by the Junta leader, are key in determining who's going to be PM, I guess military rule continues indefinitely. 

 

[sjaak327]

Just now, robblok said:

I knew you would look for excuses to hide the fact that they have lost a huge number of votes. 

 

Maybe you should check the dictionary about landslide victory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landslide_victory

 

 

Rob, stop this please, they won 204 constitutuencies in 2011, against 173 now, that's not a huge loss. Certainly not under the circumstances with which these elections have been held. Or do you honestly believe these elections were fair ? If so, I have several bridges to sell. From someone from a country where the biggest party in a Multi party democracy barely reached 17% of the votes, that 34% (which cannot be accurate, since they now curtailed votes using a convoluted system) is a landslide. Fact is Prayuth didn't even come close, and that is a fact. In comparison with PT a small party. 

[beautifulthailand99]

 

[robblok]

Just now, NanLaew said:

Correct. But then...

 

How can a fact be based on something that you agree we have no way of knowing?

 

The fact is that the Thai Raksa Chart (PTP proxy) horse was royally nobbled before it even got to the starting gate. 

I said there is no way of knowing how many PTP votes went to future forward.

 

Then i said even if you add ALL votes from future forward to the PTP (like all of them) the combined score is still less then in 2011. Hence my comment on the decline.

 

Two separate remarks. 

[NanLaew]

15 minutes ago, pornprong said:

Regardless of any cheating and the rigged system, the fact remains that millions of Thais have chosen to vote for continued military rule.

Not being willing to risk death or jail through activism can most certainly be excused but voting as these millions have cannot.

The people of Thailand have no one to blame but themselves for whatever becomes of their country after today.

Spoken like Jeremy Corbyn the Younger.

[madmen]

9 minutes ago, CLW said:

What stability?
Economy is going down, Corruption still exists, Cutting down on human rights, freedom of speech and free press!

Yeah, they did an excellent job!

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

Hows your economy , unemployment rate and currency going? thats rhetorical ???? 

[Nickymaster]

Guys, PTP and Future Forward are in this together . Don't be so naive. 

 

 http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/your_say/30365769 

[NanLaew]

13 minutes ago, madmen said:

Its ironic everybody demands a democracy and then demand a recount because... well .. it just aint fair! 

Like the irony of the munters demanding a 'People's Vote' on Brexit back in the UK?

[robblok]

1 minute ago, sjaak327 said:

Rob, stop this please, they won 204 constitutuencies in 2011, against 173 now, that's not a huge loss. Certainly not under the circumstances with which these elections have been held. Or do you honestly believe these elections were fair ? If so, I have several bridges to sell. From someone from a country where the biggest party in a Multi party democracy barely reached 17% of the votes, that 34% (which cannot be accurate, since they now curtailed votes using a convoluted system) is a landslide. Fact is Prayuth didn't even come close, and that is a fact. In comparison with PT a small party. 

I am talking about votes.. not constituencies, and based on that its a huge loss.  Also I am talking about votes not seats so things can be compared (no longer the 50 bonus for a large party) . You just hate to admit it and admit that your landslide is not true according to the definition. Before I thought you were a reasonable guy but if you can't even accept numbers and see that they lost a huge number of votes then what is the point if we cant even discuss hard numbers. 

[sjaak327]

Just now, robblok said:

I am talking about votes.. not constituencies, and based on that its a huge loss.  Also I am talking about votes not seats so things can be compared (no longer the 50 bonus for a large party) . You just hate to admit it and admit that your landslide is not true according to the definition. Before I thought you were a reasonable guy but if you can't even accept numbers and see that they lost a huge number of votes then what is the point if we cant even discuss hard numbers. 

How can you even make that claim, we are talking about an exit poll, based on which they won 173 constituenties. and 0 party list votes (which in itself cannot possibly be true). They won 204 of those last time around. And yes, if they did reach 173 seats it IS a landlside. But I understand, you completely ignore the unlevel playing field. You are dishonest, and it is for all to see. These election were never fair. One party disbanded with no legal ground whatsoever, another one soon to be disbanded with another excuse. Stop dreaming and wake up to reality. 

[pornprong]

34 minutes ago, Eligius said:

As you and perhaps others on these threads will guess, I have some sympathy with what you write here, Pornprong.

But I (and others) have predicted all along that there would be MASSIVE untruths and distortions told about the 'result'.

Who is to check? Who dares? 

After all, we were just TOLD what the 'result' of the Constitution 'referendum' was (we all had to accept it on blind faith -  although I NEVER did); analogously, we are now being TOLD (and are expected to take it on blind faith) that the result of this 'election' is really good for the militarists.

I am the first to criticise the Thais for their political pusillanimity; but even I smell a rat in these results ... (of course I am not saying the Authorities are lying - no, no - they are all 'good people' - we know that ....).

 

 

Of course the Junta have their finger on the scale.

Of course the results are not a reflection of the true will of the people.

But you can only cheat so much.

If instead of just 7 out of 10 Thais opposing dictatorship, it was 9 out of 10 no amount of rigging and cheating could achieve the desired result with a shred of believability intact.

The 5 million Thais that benefit from the impoverishment of the remaining 60 million have today decided that they'd rather spend their lives as "bootlickers" than live in a free society and forge their own livelihoods based on merit. Should democracy ever be restored in Thailand, these same 5 million will once again throw their support behind another reincarnated street mob to ensure there is another coup.

I do believe democracy will win out, but it will be costly and bloody.

For that, they have only themselves to blame.

Edited March 24, 2019 by pornprong

[pornprong]

10 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Like the irony of the munters demanding a 'People's Vote' on Brexit back in the UK?

Another vote and Brexit would be finished.

What a silly notion, that democracy cannot be allowed to correct itself.

[sjaak327]

The real question is, in two months when the results are announced, how much will those differ from exit polls. Normally they difference would be +-5%, here that difference might very well be very substantial. Does anyone here (apart from Rob) really believe the counts will be accurate ? 

 

I have Saphan Thaksin, I will sell it for 10 baht. 

[candide]

11 minutes ago, robblok said:

I am talking about votes.. not constituencies, and based on that its a huge loss.  Also I am talking about votes not seats so things can be compared (no longer the 50 bonus for a large party) . You just hate to admit it and admit that your landslide is not true according to the definition. Before I thought you were a reasonable guy but if you can't even accept numbers and see that they lost a huge number of votes then what is the point if we cant even discuss hard numbers. 

You cannot know if they lost or not votes if you don't compare only in the constituencies were they presented a candidate. That's basic mathematics.