25 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Anyone who believes the deep state is a reality in the US has been conned by right-wing fringe groups masquerading as news sources.

You are misinformed.  The deep state is not some sci fi secret chamber you may imagine it is reference to government agencies such as the CIA which work seemingly behind the scenes to reach their goals.  It has been referenced by numerous academics, bureaucrats and politicians alike.  So you think the CIA does not exist and is not clandestine?

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 20197 yr by tlandtday

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

"For sure not from TVF."  What does that mean?  Do you object to links from respected news sources?  Do you only rely on posts in TVF for information?  I really have no idea what you mean by your opening statement.

 

Regarding the rest, it does not change the fact that Trump won an extremely close election with help from Russian interference, and such interference is still going on.  Some people are smart enough to not rely on social media for news, some people are not.  Russian interference is targeted at the latter group, and in an election as close as the 2016 election it could have been the deciding factor.  For that reason it must be investigated and, as much as possible, stopped.

Russia had nothing to do with trump winning the electoral college. Get over it if you can. 

The more you keep trying to convince yourself that they did, like the democrats in congress, the more you are ensuring his reelection. Especially with the sad attempt of 81 "Investigations" in search of a possible crime. 

"The Illusory Truth Effect: How Millions Were Duped By Russiagate"

 

"The rather uncreatively-named illusory truth effect describes the way people are more likely to believe something is true after hearing it said many times."

 - Caitlin Johnstone

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/the-illusory-truth-effect-how-millions-were-duped-by-russiagate-61199bfbe325

 

13 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

"The Illusory Truth Effect: How Millions Were Duped By Russiagate"

 

"The rather uncreatively-named illusory truth effect describes the way people are more likely to believe something is true after hearing it said many times."

 - Caitlin Johnstone

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/the-illusory-truth-effect-how-millions-were-duped-by-russiagate-61199bfbe325

 

That explains why so many people think the deep state is a real thing.

Posts violating Fair use Policy as well as other troll posts and replies have been removed.

 

23 minutes ago, elmrfudd said:

Russia had nothing to do with trump winning the electoral college. Get over it if you can. 

The more you keep trying to convince yourself that they did, like the democrats in congress, the more you are ensuring his reelection. Especially with the sad attempt of 81 "Investigations" in search of a possible crime. 

You have no way of knowing that.  Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million votes and managed an electoral college victory that could have easily gone the other way.  There is no way of proving how the election would have turned out if there had been no Russian interference, just as there is no way to determine how the election would have turned out if Comey had not violated FBI policy and verified the Hillary Clinton investigation then announced a re-opening of the investigation a week before the election.  Funny that Trumpies think the FBI and Comey are against them.

 

Ironic that Republicans, who have repeatedly investigated Hillary Clinton with no results, are now calling for another investigation of her without giving any reason why.

We would like to see the report please we want to judge for ourselves not what Donald wants us to see

2 minutes ago, Tug said:

We would like to see the report please we want to judge for ourselves not what Donald wants us to see

Errrrm , who are you asking ?

Who are you talking to ?

1 hour ago, tlandtday said:

You are misinformed.  The deep state is not some sci fi secret chamber you may imagine it is reference to government agencies such as the CIA which work seemingly behind the scenes to reach their goals.  It has been referenced by numerous academics, bureaucrats and politicians alike.  So you think the CIA does not exist and is not clandestine?

"In the United States, the term "deep state" is used in political messaging to describe the theory^[1][2][3] that there is "a hybrid association of elements of government and parts of top-level finance and industry that is effectively able to govern the United States without reference to the consent of the governed as expressed through the formal political process".^[4][5]

The term was originally coined in a somewhat pejorative sense to refer to similar relatively invisible state apparatus in Turkey "composed of high-level elements within the intelligence services, military, security, judiciary, and organized crime" and similar networks in other countries including Egypt, Ukraine, Spain, Colombia, Italy, and Israel, and many others.^"   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state_in_the_United_States

 

The term originally was used to describe the Military/Intelligence alliances in countries such as Pakistan and Egypt that occasionally allowed a semblance of democracy but called all the shots and deposed inconvenient leaders at will.  It was adopted by right-wing conspiracy theorists in the US who prefer paranoia to reason.

 

In the US the CIA answers to, and takes order from, the elected government in accordance with US law.  It is not a deep state organization.

Jussie Smollett and Trump both cleared of all charges.


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39 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Errrrm , who are you asking ?

Who are you talking to ?

Errrr why all of you trump supporters errrr we would like to judge for ourselves what mr muller found 

"Beyond BuzzFeed: The 10 Worst, Most Embarrassing U.S. Media Failures on the Trump-Russia Story"

- Glenn Greenwald

 

https://theintercept.com/2019/01/20/beyond-buzzfeed-the-10-worst-most-embarrassing-u-s-media-failures-on-the-trumprussia-story/

26 minutes ago, Tug said:

Errrr why all of you trump supporters errrr we would like to judge for ourselves what mr muller found 

when you are appointed attorney general, you may.

Cable news on top of their game -

 

"Donald Trump is Finished" compilation.

The last 2 years in 3 minutes 22 seconds:

 

 

 

"I'm not a journalist, but I play one on TV."

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 20197 yr by JimmyJ

2 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

"Beyond BuzzFeed: The 10 Worst, Most Embarrassing U.S. Media Failures on the Trump-Russia Story"

- Glenn Greenwald

 

https://theintercept.com/2019/01/20/beyond-buzzfeed-the-10-worst-most-embarrassing-u-s-media-failures-on-the-trumprussia-story/

I replied to this post earlier.    https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1091389-mueller-report-finds-no-evidence-that-trump-campaign-colluded-with-russia-us-justice-department/?do=findComment&comment=13981031

 

Ten acknowledged errors over the last two years do not invalidate the the largely reliable reporting done by the news organizations.

 

You failed to answer my question regarding your infallible news source.

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

I replied to this post earlier.    https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1091389-mueller-report-finds-no-evidence-that-trump-campaign-colluded-with-russia-us-justice-department/?do=findComment&comment=13981031

 

Ten acknowledged errors over the last two years do not invalidate the the largely reliable reporting done by the news organizations.

 

You failed to answer my question regarding your infallible news source.

Where do you get 10 over two years? I saw that many or more on a daily basis.

6 minutes ago, beechguy said:

Where do you get 10 over two years? I saw that many or more on a daily basis.

A lot of it is one news outlet or another parroting "KXYZ is reporting, this or that", and of course the original KXYZ report will be "according to sources", which will not be named. It's not a Republican or Democrat thing, it's a media thing.

 

Frankly, I admire a journalist willing to go to jail to protect a source, but that's hardly necessary these days as whatever can be imagined is printed with no accountability.

The Mueller Report has changed nothing.

 

Rachel Maddow (and most other conspiracy theorists) are doubling down:

 

"Maddow moved on to two related questions: Did Trump obstruct justice? And did Barr let him get away with it?"

 

 

How long until "Is Mueller a Russian agent?"

 

Maddow gets $10 million/year for spewing suppositions without a hint of proof, no different than an Alex Jones.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/rachel-maddow-the-lefts-powerhouse-on-cable-doubles-down-on-the-collusion-angle/2019/03/26/bd8701d0-4f36-11e9-a3f7-78b7525a8d5f_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.da90d21908f7

Edited March 27, 20197 yr by JimmyJ

Trump will do anything to insure that he dominates the news cycle.  Now it's Repeal Obama care and replace it with nothing", not even a free box of band aides!

Trump will do anything to insure that he dominates the news cycle.  Now it's Repeal Obama care and replace it with nothing", not even a free box of band aides!

 

I thought this was a campaign promise that helped get him elected?

 

To return the previous health insurance model of the preceding 50 years or more.

 

The problem is there is no such thing as a “free” box of band-aids.

1 hour ago, beechguy said:

Where do you get 10 over two years? I saw that many or more on a daily basis.

From the title of your link.

 

You still haven't answered the question about your infallible news sources.

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

I replied to this post earlier.    https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1091389-mueller-report-finds-no-evidence-that-trump-campaign-colluded-with-russia-us-justice-department/?do=findComment&comment=13981031

 

Ten acknowledged errors over the last two years do not invalidate the the largely reliable reporting done by the news organizations.

 

You failed to answer my question regarding your infallible news source.

 

Your post is re: my post # 256:

""Beyond BuzzFeed: The 10 Worst, Most Embarrassing U.S. Media Failures on the Trump-Russia Story"

 

 

Another perceptive comment from "heybruce", since the article is titled "The only 10  errors over the last 2 years of RussiaGate".

 

Now if the article had been titled something like "The 10 Worst, Most Embarrassing U.S. Media Failures on the Trump-Russia Story", with no reference to how frequently these occurred (one would have to actually read the article to get a sense of this) then your comment would be foolish and asking "Where are infallible news sources" would be seen as classic Strawman diversion, totally irrelevant, and off topic.

Edited March 27, 20197 yr by JimmyJ

6 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

I thought this was a campaign promise that helped get him elected?

 

To return the previous health insurance model of the preceding 50 years or more.

 

The problem is there is no such thing as a “free” box of band-aids.

No, he promised to replace it with something much better and cheaper.  However he hasn't come up with a replacement.  No surprise, he also promised Mexico would pay for his wall.

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

From the title of your link.

 

You still haven't answered the question about your infallible news sources.

I didn't post a link, but if you want to see examples, take your pick, CNN,ABC,CBS.NBC,MSNBC, etc.

1 minute ago, JimmyJ said:

 

Your comment is re: my post # 256:

""Beyond BuzzFeed: The 10 Worst, Most Embarrassing U.S. Media Failures on the Trump-Russia Story"

 

 

Another perceptive comment from "heybruce", since the article is titled "The only 10  errors over the last 2 years of RussiaGate".

 

Now if the article had been titled something like "The 10 Worst, Most Embarrassing U.S. Media Failures on the Trump-Russia Story", with no reference to how frequently these occurred (one would have to actually read the article to get a sense of this) then your comment would be foolish and asking "Where are infallible news sources" would be seen as classic Strawman diversion, totally irrelevant, and off topic.

Much like Trump on healthcare, you are asking people to abandon what they have and offering nothing in return.  Intelligent people say no. 

 

Established news sources make mistakes, but those are infrequent relative to the amount of stories they report.  Until you provide a better source of information, I'm sticking with what is usually correct.

1 minute ago, beechguy said:

I didn't post a link, but if you want to see examples, take your pick, CNN,ABC,CBS.NBC,MSNBC, etc.

These are the news sources JimmyJ maintains can't be trusted.  He won't tell us what news he considers reliable.  Makes one wonder.

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

Much like Trump on healthcare, you are asking people to abandon what they have and offering nothing in return.  Intelligent people say no. 

 

Established news sources make mistakes, but those are infrequent relative to the amount of stories they report.  Until you provide a better source of information, I'm sticking with what is usually correct.

 

Even you'd have to admit that cable news outlets are hardly investigative journalists. The great bulk of their programming is roundtable punditry.

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

These are the news sources JimmyJ maintains can't be trusted.  He won't tell us what news he considers reliable.  Makes one wonder.

Well the funny thing is, if you had spent the last 2 years watching the likes of Tim Pool, Mark Dice, Paul Joseph Watson and even Alex Jones, you would have been more accurately informed that if you watched CNN and MSNBC and other MSM outlets. The so called alt-right media called the Russian hoax correctly from the outset while the legacy media went on a wild goose chase with no evidence whatsoever all day all night. Really the likes of Alex Jones should have their social media accounts restored with grovelling apologies from the tech giants and CNN et al should be banned instead. After all, nobody wants double standards. If publishing fake news gets you banned from Facebook and Youtube then it's time to ban all legacy media.

 Another difference is that Jones apologized for his Sandy Hook comments. He was wrong. He admitted it. While Rachel Maddow and the rest just keep doubling down on their fake news even after it's proven to be fake. I just can't see how what she is doing is not a hate crime.

 The end to the Russia collusion hoax must be cemented with major media reforms. Legacy media must be forced to take responsibility for pushing fake news that suits the false narrative they try to push. This hoax has totally divided a nation, and it even had the potential to kick off a war with Russia. It can't get much more serious than that.

No, he promised to replace it with something much better and cheaper.  However he hasn't come up with a replacement.  No surprise, he also promised Mexico would pay for his wall.

 

The old healthcare system was much better & cheaper for the vast majority of Americans and employers and federal coffers.

 

ACA has cost billions and the only ones who benefit are those on subsidies.

 

I have had several friends in US say they thought they were voting for Nationalized Healthcare like us in Canada but what they got was nothing of the sort.

 

This is way off topic and no further comment from me.

6 hours ago, heybruce said:

"In the United States, the term "deep state" is used in political messaging to describe the theory^[1][2][3] that there is "a hybrid association of elements of government and parts of top-level finance and industry that is effectively able to govern the United States without reference to the consent of the governed as expressed through the formal political process".^[4][5]

The term was originally coined in a somewhat pejorative sense to refer to similar relatively invisible state apparatus in Turkey "composed of high-level elements within the intelligence services, military, security, judiciary, and organized crime" and similar networks in other countries including Egypt, Ukraine, Spain, Colombia, Italy, and Israel, and many others.^"   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state_in_the_United_States

 

The term originally was used to describe the Military/Intelligence alliances in countries such as Pakistan and Egypt that occasionally allowed a semblance of democracy but called all the shots and deposed inconvenient leaders at will.  It was adopted by right-wing conspiracy theorists in the US who prefer paranoia to reason.

 

In the US the CIA answers to, and takes order from, the elected government in accordance with US law.  It is not a deep state organization.

You really need to step back and get a better understanding of how agencies like the CIA work.  They are "clandestine".  The majority of the time very few elected politicians have any idea how they work.  The idea they are conforming to law and reporting like any other agency is silly. 

 

The response is so biased it should immediately raise red flags. " It was adopted by right-wing conspiracy theorists in the US who prefer paranoia to reason." LOL.  Ridiculous assertion with nothing to back it up.

 

Do you understand how wikipedia works?  It is not unbiased.  Any Joe can make contributions and it is constantly edited. It is open to abuse.  Wikipedia is a grade B or C source and is not accepted in legitimate academic articles.  People use it because it is easy and don't know any better.

Edited March 27, 20197 yr by tlandtday