Solutions to burning season

[Marpa47]

While discussing Thailand’s worsening pollution during “burning season”, a friend from the Phillipines told me the solution there was as follows: 1). Flood the fields and allow vegetation to rot. 2). After vegetation has decomposed sufficiently, drain the fields and allow to dry. 3). After the fields have dried sufficiently, mix the decomposed vegetable matter with the soil. 4). Now, flood the fields again. This is the final step I think. In the mean time, the next crop of rice is being germinated in a separate area, then transferred to the fields now.

 

Maybe something as safe and effective as this could be taught to farmers who currently practice the burning method? The burning season was a problem in the Philippines until this alternate method was developed.

 

Another problem mentioned in another post is that China also burns their crops at the same time as its happening in Thailand. So, perfect storm!

 

 

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[cranki]

The problem with that idea is the majority of these fields are weather dependent.....no water to "flood" the fields after the wet season.

[Anythingleft?]

1. Is there sufficient water available to do this in Thailand
2. How labour intensive or expensively mechanised is the turning in or mixing of vegetation process after flooding
3. How long does the flooding process take to complete before replanting of crops compared to burning
4. Does the Philippines carry subsidies for this process and is the entire process comparable in terms of cost to burning

The main reasons for carrying out burning is that it is quick, easy and cheap
These bases need to be covered for any advancement of any methods to be considered here.......



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[worgeordie]

Up here in Chiang Mai. it's the forests that are burning,

the villagers burn the undergrowth,so when the raining

season starts,its makes it easier for them to find mushrooms,

which are popular and expensive in both Thailand and China.

 

Next year I think the only way to stop the burning,which

causes health problems and effects the tourist industry

is to get the Army and Police,camping out,patrolling  up in the hills

to prevent burning and arrest any arsonists that they catch,and

give them 5 year prison term,that is the only way to

make changes in people's minds,that burning is no

longer to be tolerated. will it happen....i don't think so,the

government is more serious about stopping smokers on the beach.!

regards Worgeordie

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Marpa47 said:

Another problem mentioned in another post is that China also burns their crops at the same time as its happening in Thailand. So, perfect storm!

And Cambodia, and Burma, and Laos.

[orang37]

Solutions:

 

1. suicide: permanent, low-cost, cheap and messy will vary with method. possible  collateral damage  to others.

 

2. relocation: expensive, a hassle, may or may not be permanent.

 

3. psychotic break: cost, hassle, mess, dependent on flavor; extreme denial may be least costly. possible collateral damage to self and others depending on degree of paranoia and extreme behavior.

 

4. suck it up: effective, but troubling. psychosis may result unless practitioner has a sense of humor.

 

5. surround yourself with air-cleaners, and don't go outside: expensive, may lead to terminal boredom, or chagrin when you find out you are dying anyhow.

 

Please respond with other strategies I may have missed ...

 

~o:37;

[aremesal]

Regarding the mushrooms issue, I just wrote this in other forum:
Set a traceability.

You can only harvest in the land/forest with a specific government license for that land.

Every day when leaving the land/forest you should report to the officer who weights it and put data in the system - not paper. In addition, put them in a sealed traceable container.

If police catch you with mushrooms without the corresponding daily reports or not in a sealed container or with a seal-broke container, they are confiscated and fine of 100K

To be able to sell in the market or to export you should show the receipts, the sealed container and that be cross checked versus data in the system. If you try to sell/export more than the registered weight or without the sealed container, confiscated and fine 100-300K.

In addition, checkpoints in the access to the burt lands/forests. If catch with mushrooms from there fine 500K and prison.

In my country they're doing something similar since a few years ago, and they've significantly reduced the mushroom mafias.

[cmsally]

At this time of year the fields that are being burned are in the hills on an incline. Impossible to flood them, the water just runs off and not much water anyway.

[jackdd]

12 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Up here in Chiang Mai. it's the forests that are burning,

the villagers burn the undergrowth,so when the raining

season starts,its makes it easier for them to find mushrooms,

which are popular and expensive in both Thailand and China.

Thailand could declare picking and selling these mushrooms illegal, enforcing this is much easier than catching people who start a fire in the middle of the night.

 

A general lack of law enforcement is of course a main reason why people are burning. From what i've seen when driving around here in Udon they don't burn too much, but in the Isaan provinces a bit further in the south like Khon Kaen, Chaiyaphum Phetchabun and so on you see fires as soon as it's after 5pm and the majority of police officers have stopped working. You don't even need to leave the big roads to see fields in flames and people burning their trash right next to the street. Would be really easy to catch these people, but the few police officers who have night shift just don't care.

[Mapguy]

Solutions:
 
1. suicide: permanent, low-cost, cheap and messy will vary with method. possible  collateral damage  to others.
 
2. relocation: expensive, a hassle, may or may not be permanent.
 
3. psychotic break: cost, hassle, mess, dependent on flavor; extreme denial may be least costly. possible collateral damage to self and others depending on degree of paranoia and extreme behavior.
 
4. suck it up: effective, but troubling. psychosis may result unless practitioner has a sense of humor.
 
5. surround yourself with air-cleaners, and don't go outside: expensive, may lead to terminal boredom, or chagrin when you find out you are dying anyhow.
 
Please respond with other strategies I may have missed ...
 
~o:37;

Excellent post from a long-time resident with a broader if sometimes very idiosyncratic way of looking at things still tempered by thought and experience.


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[Date Masamune]

What about the mushroom caused illegal forest burns never prosecuted?

[scorecard]

On 3/25/2019 at 8:51 AM, worgeordie said:

Up here in Chiang Mai. it's the forests that are burning,

the villagers burn the undergrowth,so when the raining

season starts,its makes it easier for them to find mushrooms,

which are popular and expensive in both Thailand and China.

 

Next year I think the only way to stop the burning,which

causes health problems and effects the tourist industry

is to get the Army and Police,camping out,patrolling  up in the hills

to prevent burning and arrest any arsonists that they catch,and

give them 5 year prison term,that is the only way to

make changes in people's minds,that burning is no

longer to be tolerated. will it happen....i don't think so,the

government is more serious about stopping smokers on the beach.!

regards Worgeordie

Good points but I suspect the reason why basically nothing has ever been done over decades to stop the burning is brown envelopes.  And unfortunately probably going to continue.

 

Did anybody note the report about a discussion with the CM province governor 2 days ago. He has a six point plan, not one point has any merit. 

 

[Ireland32]

Charge more for Lighters, like a 1000b...

[Krataiboy]

For the lowdown on the whys and wherefors of the air pollution problems in Chang Mai, Chang Rai and surrounding areas, I recommend this excellent, comprehensive guide. It also provides practical, detailed advice on how to avoid becoming a victim of the dangerous pollutants.

 

https://www.thethailandlife.com/chiang-mai-burning-season

 

Not mentioned in an otherwise excellent and detailed guide is the contribution made to local air pollution by traditional tribes of nomadic subsistence farmers, who employ old-fashioned slash-and-burn farming techniques.

 

Other than "eco tourism" this the primary survival option for tribes like the Hmong and Karen who have been part of the local "scenery" for decades - often living in makeshift villages without essentials such as a running water or electricity or medical and educational facilities.

 

I learned a little of their plight from my elder daughter, who recently led a group of volunteers from Chiang Mai University to help build a better water supply system for a tribal village which  nestles on a hillside overlooking their campus.

 

Successive Thai governments have attempted to resettle some hill farmers - whom they accuse of "destroying" national forests - to lowland regions. But all too often these schemes have led to social and economic difficulties and cause more problems than they solve.

 

 

 

[WilliamSmits]

On 3/25/2019 at 10:08 AM, BritManToo said:

And Cambodia, and Burma, and Laos.

Just traveling in central and north China. There is almost no burning. Its banned and all crop residues are baled for use in energy production or other uses. Blue skies most days, a big change from few years ago.

[1FinickyOne]

water water everywhere but not a drop to drink...

 

never had a problem before on the last 20 years and my farming village is now turning off the water during the day... 

[1FinickyOne]

since you solved the burning problem, see if you can do something about the heat... 

[terryofcrete]

19 hours ago, jackdd said:

people burning their trash right next to the street. 

I have visited Udon Thani twice this year and as a Regular Tourist in Thailand was curious about the "witches pots" outside a lot of premises on the pavement that looked like they were for burning rubbish . Is this what they are for , as I actually never saw anyone burning anything in them ? It struck me as odd that this would be allowed, but it's Thailand of course 

 

[sanemax]

Just now, terryofcrete said:

I have visited Udon Thani twice this year and as a Regular Tourist in Thailand was curious about the "witches pots" outside a lot of premises on the pavement that looked like they were for burning rubbish . Is this what they are for , as I actually never saw anyone burning anything in them ? It struck me as odd that this would be allowed, but it's Thailand of course 

 

I think that those were water pots where water is kept 

[Thailand]

Fine the owner of the land where the fires are detected not the farmers renting it and make it hurt with fines 50K up for first infringement.

[jackdd]

31 minutes ago, terryofcrete said:

I have visited Udon Thani twice this year and as a Regular Tourist in Thailand was curious about the "witches pots" outside a lot of premises on the pavement that looked like they were for burning rubbish . Is this what they are for , as I actually never saw anyone burning anything in them ? It struck me as odd that this would be allowed, but it's Thailand of course 

 

I assume you are talking about these:

This are just regular trash cans, not for burning. You can also find them in other provinces

[GreasyFingers]

One other solution would be to move Chiang Mai out of the valley and into the higher ground around it so the pollution is not as bad.

[Gazzelle]

22 hours ago, cmsally said:

At this time of year the fields that are being burned are in the hills on an incline. Impossible to flood them, the water just runs off and not much water anyway.

Maybe where you are in Chaing Mai but, I live in Kam Phaeng Phet and they have been burning the sugar beet remains for more than 3 months now! The pollution is visible & bad (large pieces of burnt carbonized sugar beet remains constantly falling from the skies) but, really the bigger danger to health is the smaller particles that the eye cannot see but we are constantly breathing in!

[Gazzelle]

Just now, Gazzelle said:

Maybe where you are in Chaing Mai but, I live in Kam Phaeng Phet and they have been burning the sugar beet remains for more than 3 months now! The pollution is visible & bad (large pieces of burnt carbonized sugar beet remains constantly falling from the skies) but, really the bigger danger to health is the smaller particles that the eye cannot see but we are constantly breathing in!

......maybe the field flooding method may be a good remedy in the many flat areas of Thailand!

[NCC1701A]

On 3/25/2019 at 7:18 AM, Marpa47 said:

a friend from the Phillipines told me the solution

i was thinking like snipers on high ground. 

[wgdanson]

7 minutes ago, Gazzelle said:

Maybe where you are in Chaing Mai but, I live in Kam Phaeng Phet and they have been burning the sugar beet remains for more than 3 months now! The pollution is visible & bad (large pieces of burnt carbonized sugar beet remains constantly falling from the skies) but, really the bigger danger to health is the smaller particles that the eye cannot see but we are constantly breathing in!

I was led to believe that the sugar cane farmers burn their field BEFORE harvesting, thereby getting rid of unwanted leaves etc, and scaring off any snakes. 

[Bill97]

Sugar cane vs sugar beet. Read wg.


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[cmsally]

Sugar beet is grown in a temperate climate. Never seen it grown in Thailand.

But agree, the lowland farming areas should be the easiest to stop burning.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Thailand said:

Fine the owner of the land where the fires are detected not the farmers renting it and make it hurt with fines 50K up for first infringement.

You are aware who owns 70% of the land in Thailand?

[Phrafarang]

Fine the head of the village, you can be sure he knows who is burning and if he got fined every time there was a fire in his tombon it would soon stop