Congestion charge for cars mulled for central Bangkok

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, CLW said:

Stop whining.
If you can afford two cars then you also can pay this congestion charge.
Or you simply change to one eco car with hybrid or electric drive.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

 

You 'Taptalked' too quickly !!!!....  were you that eager to post a critical response that you missed the whole point of the topic?  

 

The issue is Congestion !!!!  Switching to an Electric or Hybrid car does not reduce the number of cars on the road or congestion. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by richard_smith237

[CLW]

 
You 'Taptalked' too quickly !!!!....  were you that eager to post a critical response that you missed the whole point of the topic?  
 
The issue is Congestion !!!!  Switching to an Electric or Hybrid car does not reduce the number of cars on the road or congestion. 
 
 
 
 

Less cars, because instead of two conventional cars one electric car.

On a side note, I'm living here since 5 years and I've never had the desire to own or drive a car here. I own a motorcycle though for getting around sometimes.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Destiny1990]

Good plan even though copied from abroad.

BBK has excellent BTS MRT lines so car drivers should either pay or go by public transport ban old diesels too..

[richard_smith237]

14 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Good plan even though copied from abroad.

BBK has excellent BTS MRT lines so car drivers should either pay or go by public transport ban old diesels too..

 

How do you get to the MRT line?

 

Take a Taxi?...  There is no car seat for my Son. 

How do I get from the MRT / BTS to my Sons school? Take another Taxi?

 

The MRT / BTS is excellent if you live nearby and your destination is nearby the exit. 

 

I think convenient and free parking next to a couple of key stations, including Terminus stations would be a good idea and encourage the borderline road user to use public transport.

 

I recall working on Ratchada... on a Sunday it takes 30mins to drive there. 

On a Weekday morning it took 1.5hrs. 

So I started using the BTS: Motorbike to BTS, then BTS, then change lines to MRT... it still took 45mins - but was better. 

On my return, the station at Asoke interchange was so busy it was quicker to walk back to my place (45mins) I arrived home soaking wet... or had to take another motorcycle.... No helmet (which I don't like).

 

The whole system needs a lot of improvement.

[PatOngo]

1 hour ago, Jane Dough said:

Jealousy will get you nowhere ????

 

It's high time the country bumpkins are made to pay for coming to our pristine and wonderful City of Angels. A city, incidentally where nearly half of the entire country's wealth is generated so that the country folk and retirees in Nakorn Nowhere can sit about virtually every day drinking lao khao and complaining. 

 

Besides for many people our peace and quiet and air quality is worth paying for, too. 

 

With kind regards from the Bangkok Tourism Promotion Board. 

 

 

Cheers Jane, I spent 6 years there in a past lifetime, now I enjoy breathing fresh sea air everyday. I feel ……...re incarnated.

[scorecard]

Also used in Singapore with success, already 20+ years.

 

I like the idea and my vote would be for the revenue to be used to subsidize fares on the BTS, MRT and all the new lines, to make these systems much more affordable for a lot more people. That might also reduce the number of non-air black smoke spewing buses on the roads. 

[Briggsy]

Never, ever happen. Too many important people would be out of pocket. Thailand has no history of placing the benefit of society over the vested interests of important people, particularly those in Bangkok.

 

Absolutely no chance whatsoever. None. Zero.

[Jadam]

5 hours ago, NE1 said:

Then they can ignore it and throw it in the bin.

Right.
The honour system doesn't work in Thailand.  They'd have to make people pay before they entered the area or many people wouldn't pay.

 

10 hours ago, webfact said:

 taxis, for example, would be exempt. 

Why?  They are contributing to the congestion.  Make them pay.  They will just pass on the cost to the passenger and there will likely be fewer taxis in those areas.

[katana]

London already has  a congestion charge.

From 2021 they're planning to bring in an ultra low emission zone within the M25 region making it even more draconian.

[Jadam]

1 hour ago, Destiny1990 said:

BBK has excellent BTS MRT lines so car drivers should either pay or go by public transport ban old diesels too

So many things wrong with this....

Trains work well only for certain areas and they don't have park & ride setups.  And the trains are overcrowded when most people go to work.  And they don't run 24 hours.  But other than all of that they are okay.

Kind of hard for government to now ban old diesels when they've been subsidizing diesel fuel for years which is why everyone bough diesel cars.  But yeah, good idea, if it were possible.

 

Car drivers won't all pay, some will obscure their number plate or just ignore the bill or have a friend who puts them on the exempt list.  The camera payment system is doomed for failure.  And they probably aren't anticipating how costly it will be to do the billing (watch all of the footage, find out when vehicles entered and exited the area, send out the bill, hire collection agency for those who don't pay, etc.).  Better charge cars a flat fee to enter downtown.

 

Also what is BBK?

 

[Redline]

The problem is, nobody will pay their bills 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, CLW said:

Less cars, because instead of two conventional cars one electric car.

On a side note, I'm living here since 5 years and I've never had the desire to own or drive a car here. I own a motorcycle though for getting around sometimes.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

I still don't get how owning a single electric car generates less congestion than two conventional cars owned by a single person... He can't drive both at the same time !... also, congestion has little do with electric cars... added to which, in Bangkok there would be more congestion with electric cars - there are no charging points !! if a car is stuck in traffic for two long it would run out of power - then think of the congestion caused. 

 

On a side note... I've lived here for 20 years... and could never imagine living here without a car...

At times I've had two cars (A 4x4 for long trips and a fast one for fun) Yes... excessive !...  I could only drive one at a time - so it didn't impact congestion.

I also ride a motorcycle in Bangkok and have recently been doing so more - but its hot and not so nice arriving somewhere sweaty. 

 

It would be impossible to live here in a manner I consider safe without my own car with a child seat for my son. Its a bit better now and we can sometimes go in taxi's and use the seat belt as a lap belt, but that's only when really necessary - Try relying on Taxi's with a 5 year old and have 6-7 taxi's in a row rejecting your journey... then compare that to sitting in your own comfortable car.

 

 

Anyone who owns a car in the city will tell you, they would never like to be without a car again. Generally, those without a car go without because they are either not here long term or can't afford one - not many would turn down a free car which drives my last point home. 

 

Thus: The only way to reduce congestion is to make owning a car so expensive that those who don't really need to use a car, but have a strong preference to drive would instead choose to use public transport... and to make not driving a more expensive option the public transport has to be much better..... it currently isn't a very good viable option, especially with a family. 

 

The only time we ever use the skytrain is when we park at Gateway Ekammai or Emporium and go up to Paragon.

[richard_smith237]

40 minutes ago, Jadam said:

 

11 hours ago, webfact said:

 taxis, for example, would be exempt. 

Why?  They are contributing to the congestion.  Make them pay.  They will just pass on the cost to the passenger and there will likely be fewer taxis in those areas.

 

 

I think your logic chip has become dislodged... give yourself a solid smack on the head and think that one through again... 

 

Taxi's are part of a public transport system and essential to the success of any plans to minimize private vehicle uses in a city in which other means of public transport is left significantly wanting.

 

[PingRoundTheWorld]

Dumb idea. Won't work. The only real solution to congestion is overpasses and underpasses to avoid all those damn stop lights bogging things down. In Asoke specifically Sukhumvit traffic can stand still for a very long time as they prioritize the North/South traffic - a simple overpass or underpass would get traffic flowing there easily (then of course the are further bottlenecks in other intersections - but that's the point - intersections are bottlenecks that should be fixed, not "fixed" with a toy cop directing traffic).

[CLW]

I still don't get how owning a single electric car generates less congestion than two conventional cars owned by a single person... He can't drive both at the same time !... also, congestion has little do with electric cars... added to which, in Bangkok there would be more congestion with electric cars - there are no charging points !! if a car is stuck in traffic for two long it would run out of power - then think of the congestion caused. 
 
On a side note... I've lived here for 20 years... and could never imagine living here without a car...
At times I've had two cars (A 4x4 for long trips and a fast one for fun) Yes... excessive !...  I could only drive one at a time - so it didn't impact congestion.
I also ride a motorcycle in Bangkok and have recently been doing so more - but its hot and not so nice arriving somewhere sweaty. 
 
It would be impossible to live here in a manner I consider safe without my own car with a child seat for my son. Its a bit better now and we can sometimes go in taxi's and use the seat belt as a lap belt, but that's only when really necessary - Try relying on Taxi's with a 5 year old and have 6-7 taxi's in a row rejecting your journey... then compare that to sitting in your own comfortable car.
 
 
Anyone who owns a car in the city will tell you, they would never like to be without a car again. Generally, those without a car go without because they are either not here long term or can't afford one - not many would turn down a free car which drives my last point home. 
 
Thus: The only way to reduce congestion is to make owning a car so expensive that those who don't really need to use a car, but have a strong preference to drive would instead choose to use public transport... and to make not driving a more expensive option the public transport has to be much better..... it currently isn't a very good viable option, especially with a family. 
 
The only time we ever use the skytrain is when we park at Gateway Ekammai or Emporium and go up to Paragon.

Everything just a matter of planning and management of time and daily chores to survive without a car. But up to everyone's liking. I don't want to drag this into a personal discussion and spam the topic.

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[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Destiny1990 said:

Good plan even though copied from abroad.

BBK has excellent BTS MRT lines so car drivers should either pay or go by public transport ban old diesels too..

 

You are under the wildly flawed opinion that anyone in Bangkok lives within walking distance of a BTS or MRT line....  

 

I use the BTS so rarely because its not near me and rarely close to where I want to be. 

 

Just taking my son to school either requires a Taxi ride, then a 4 stop BTS ride, then another taxi... Or I can take him in my car at 7:45am and it takes 25mins...  a bit of a no brainer... 

 

 

 

[Destiny1990]

11 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I still don't get how owning a single electric car generates less congestion than two conventional cars owned by a single person... He can't drive both at the same time !... also, congestion has little do with electric cars... added to which, in Bangkok there would be more congestion with electric cars - there are no charging points !! if a car is stuck in traffic for two long it would run out of power - then think of the congestion caused. 

 

On a side note... I've lived here for 20 years... and could never imagine living here without a car...

At times I've had two cars (A 4x4 for long trips and a fast one for fun) Yes... excessive !...  I could only drive one at a time - so it didn't impact congestion.

I also ride a motorcycle in Bangkok and have recently been doing so more - but its hot and not so nice arriving somewhere sweaty. 

 

It would be impossible to live here in a manner I consider safe without my own car with a child seat for my son. Its a bit better now and we can sometimes go in taxi's and use the seat belt as a lap belt, but that's only when really necessary - Try relying on Taxi's with a 5 year old and have 6-7 taxi's in a row rejecting your journey... then compare that to sitting in your own comfortable car.

 

 

Anyone who owns a car in the city will tell you, they would never like to be without a car again. Generally, those without a car go without because they are either not here long term or can't afford one - not many would turn down a free car which drives my last point home. 

 

Thus: The only way to reduce congestion is to make owning a car so expensive that those who don't really need to use a car, but have a strong preference to drive would instead choose to use public transport... and to make not driving a more expensive option the public transport has to be much better..... it currently isn't a very good viable option, especially with a family. 

 

The only time we ever use the skytrain is when we park at Gateway Ekammai or Emporium and go up to Paragon.

U can have ur car in bkk but u should bleed for it financially same as in Singapore.

most foreigners on Sukhumvit dont need cars. Moving by bts goes much faster.

offices and schools all are along Sukhumvit. Sitting is the new cancer so better not spend hours in a not moving car.. i never missed a car once while living in Suk soi 11. Skytrain, walking or taxis save lots of time on parking too.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Destiny1990

[Destiny1990]

42 minutes ago, Jadam said:

So many things wrong with this....

Trains work well only for certain areas and they don't have park & ride setups.  And the trains are overcrowded when most people go to work.  And they don't run 24 hours.  But other than all of that they are okay.

Kind of hard for government to now ban old diesels when they've been subsidizing diesel fuel for years which is why everyone bough diesel cars.  But yeah, good idea, if it were possible.

 

Car drivers won't all pay, some will obscure their number plate or just ignore the bill or have a friend who puts them on the exempt list.  The camera payment system is doomed for failure.  And they probably aren't anticipating how costly it will be to do the billing (watch all of the footage, find out when vehicles entered and exited the area, send out the bill, hire collection agency for those who don't pay, etc.).  Better charge cars a flat fee to enter downtown.

 

Also what is BBK?

 

BKK..????

[shady86]

U can have ur car in bkk but u should bleed for it financially same as in Singapore.
most foreigners on Sukhumvit dont need cars. Moving by bts goes much faster.
offices and schools all are along Sukhumvit. Sitting is the new cancer so better not spend hours in a not moving car.. i never missed a car once while living in Suk soi 11. Skytrain, walking or taxis save lots of time on parking too.

I don't need a car commuting to work but I use it during the weekends for getaways and shopping trips. Can't compare with Singapore as bus comes every 5 mins and trains running across the whole tiny island. I might not need a car if I'm single but a family with small kids, you wouldnt want to walk on footpaths and waste 10 mins getting rejected by taxis. Congestion are mainly because most people commute to the city for work but traffic can be bad on weekends too. No body gives a damn and there is no other safer transportation other than your own car.

[Destiny1990]

4 minutes ago, shady86 said:

13 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

U can have ur car in bkk but u should bleed for it financially same as in Singapore.
most foreigners on Sukhumvit dont need cars. Moving by bts goes much faster.
offices and schools all are along Sukhumvit. Sitting is the new cancer so better not spend hours in a not moving car.. i never missed a car once while living in Suk soi 11. Skytrain, walking or taxis save lots of time on parking too.

I don't need a car commuting to work but I use it during the weekends for getaways and shopping trips. Can't compare with Singapore as bus comes every 5 mins and trains running across the whole tiny island. I might not need a car if I'm single but a family with small kids, you wouldnt want to walk on footpaths and waste 10 mins getting rejected by taxis. Congestion are mainly because most people commute to the city for work but traffic can be bad on weekends too. No body gives a damn and there is no other safer transportation other than your own car.

Anyway my only point is that carownership should be discouraged in BKK.

Less cars in the city instead of more is what it needs.

so more taxes an zoning areas to pay once entered will help and banning of old cars too.

Ofcourse u can have a car if u cant without but pay more so others will back away from car ownership 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Destiny1990 said:

Anyway my only point is that carownership should be discouraged in BKK.

Less cars in the city instead of more is what it needs.

so more taxes an zoning areas to pay once entered will help and banning of old cars too.

Ofcourse u can have a car if u cant without but pay more so others will back away from car ownership 

 

I think thats fair enough.... Taking the 'borderline' car owner off the road... i.e. someone who doesn't really need to use a car in Bangkok but chooses to because its just a preference and a bit more convenient....  Thats what a congestion charge is meant to do. 

 

For me - I would use a car to take my son to and from school and getting out of Bangkok whenever I want... Otherwise I get around on my Motorbike. 

 

Owning a car does make living in the city more tolerable, especially from the psychological aspect of being able to go anywhere you want at the drop of a hat (i.e. Samet, Hua Hin, Pattaya, Khao Yai etc... as well as getting to friends houses on the outskirts... visiting Thai family, going to out of town shopping centers etc and doing activities, getting to the Skylane etc).... 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 hours ago, webfact said:

Public transportation vehicles such as buses and taxis, for example, would be exempt. 

 

How about tanks and Humvees???  I'm sure the Army will want to know.....

 

[SamuiGeezer]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

You are under the wildly flawed opinion that anyone in Bangkok lives within walking distance of a BTS or MRT line....  

I use the BTS so rarely because its not near me and rarely close to where I want to be. 

Just taking my son to school either requires a Taxi ride, then a 4 stop BTS ride, then another taxi... Or I can take him in my car at 7:45am and it takes 25mins...  a bit of a no brainer... 

I wouldn't take a child on that sort of trip either. Just one taxi ride the whole way? or the car.

 

I do though think there are congestion charges already, and what really annoys me about that is when I pay for the 'Toll Way' and come to a stop 50 metres after parting with 100THB, queue for an hour then 3 clicks down the road charged some more. 

[CLW]

 
You are under the wildly flawed opinion that anyone in Bangkok lives within walking distance of a BTS or MRT line....  
 
I use the BTS so rarely because its not near me and rarely close to where I want to be. 
 
Just taking my son to school either requires a Taxi ride, then a 4 stop BTS ride, then another taxi... Or I can take him in my car at 7:45am and it takes 25mins...  a bit of a no brainer... 
 
 
 

Not a problem that you can solve because it is related with the administrative work of the schools here...
How about school busses?
Seem to work well in many parts of the developed world only Thailand not? Strange...

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[richard_smith237]

52 minutes ago, CLW said:

Not a problem that you can solve because it is related with the administrative work of the schools here...
How about school busses?
Seem to work well in many parts of the developed world only Thailand not? Strange...

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

 

Not a chance I'll send a 5year old to school in a school bus...  I'd consider it negligent when there is a simple and easy option of either my Wife or myself driving my son to school strapped safely into a Child Seat.

Maybe once he's older than 10yrs old it would be OK to send him to school in the school van (which by the way costs about 83,200 baht per year for Zone 1C (which is where we are to Bkk Patana)

 

 

(this came up in a quick search of kids being locked in School vans in Thailand)

 

 

[hotchilli]

21 hours ago, webfact said:

CCTV cameras would catch the license plate of private cars whose owners would then be billed at the end of the month.

Good luck in chasing down non-payers !

[Zack61]

21 hours ago, PatOngo said:

You must be joking! Pay to enter that bog hole? People should be compensated for going there.

. unless of course it's on their TM30!

They might be joking

[PatOngo]

6 minutes ago, Zack61 said:

They might be joking

…..or.....they might not be joking.

[brian2f2f]

10 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I still don't get how owning a single electric car generates less congestion than two conventional cars owned by a single person... He can't drive both at the same time !... also, congestion has little do with electric cars... added to which, in Bangkok there would be more congestion with electric cars - there are no charging points !! if a car is stuck in traffic for two long it would run out of power - then think of the congestion caused. 

 

On a side note... I've lived here for 20 years... and could never imagine living here without a car...

At times I've had two cars (A 4x4 for long trips and a fast one for fun) Yes... excessive !...  I could only drive one at a time - so it didn't impact congestion.

I also ride a motorcycle in Bangkok and have recently been doing so more - but its hot and not so nice arriving somewhere sweaty. 

 

It would be impossible to live here in a manner I consider safe without my own car with a child seat for my son. Its a bit better now and we can sometimes go in taxi's and use the seat belt as a lap belt, but that's only when really necessary - Try relying on Taxi's with a 5 year old and have 6-7 taxi's in a row rejecting your journey... then compare that to sitting in your own comfortable car.

 

 

Anyone who owns a car in the city will tell you, they would never like to be without a car again. Generally, those without a car go without because they are either not here long term or can't afford one - not many would turn down a free car which drives my last point home. 

 

Thus: The only way to reduce congestion is to make owning a car so expensive that those who don't really need to use a car, but have a strong preference to drive would instead choose to use public transport... and to make not driving a more expensive option the public transport has to be much better..... it currently isn't a very good viable option, especially with a family. 

 

The only time we ever use the skytrain is when we park at Gateway Ekammai or Emporium and go up to Paragon.

I don't blame you one bit. Not only do i not feel safe taking a taxi or van. Considering how ive taken a taxi before and he tried to hit a motorbike in the seacon square parking lot amd another taxi tried to hit a perosn crossing the street. Then had a van try to hit someone crossing the street too. Add on how they drive unsafely do i want to risk my life or my families lives in them. Hell no. That dose not even take ingto account that my body can not sit in their cars very long. As anyone who drives knows that the drivers seat is fae more comfortable then any other seat in the car. And especially the most accommodating to the body and joints. So for those who have problems with seats causing back neck and knee joint pains and even dibilitating levels. A taki is not possible and only becomes a medical risk ontop of a life risk. Ive also watched a taki at the maon rd near kaosan hit and kill 2 people on a motorbike then drive off fast from the scene. Who is going to feel safe like that. All these rogue taxis who constantly illegally over charge refuse passengers and More. Then give them a free ride. Thats like encouraging them to scam even more and be even more picky about who they take and not. I say put cameras in every taxi amd 3 violations and that driver can never drive a taxi again. Then also if they overcharge the company that issues their car and license returns the difference to the passenger and then the driver has to pay it back to them. And if they don't they lose their car and right to drive a taxi till they pay the money back. Having their car impounded until such time. Then anyone who would allow them to drive another taxi jailed as well as that car getting impounded as well. Then anyone who removed or stops the camera from working pays for the damanges caused as well as instantly permeant revoke of taxi license and can never drive public transport again. 

[brian2f2f]

Here is another great idea for the congestion get rid of all the rogue taxis. That should free up 1k or so cars in the area by itself.