Bangkok Bank, NY transfer under April 1 new format

[tweedledee2]

   My US bank offers a"check-free bill pay" service thru a 3rd party service provider that takes care of electronic money transfers from my account to pay monthly bills or transfer money to other accounts. There are no fees charged for using this service.  I have been using this service for the past year to make my monthly transfers to the NY branch of Bangkok Bank.

   In past months there were quite a few topics concerning Bangkok Bank's international money transfer format change that was to go in effect on April 1. This change was speculated that it would make it difficult for those of us living in Thailand to receive our funds using the NY branch. 

   On April 1st, I logged into my US bank account and using "bill pay" set-up my monthly transfer to BB NY.  I received a transfer confirmation code by email that the transfer would be completed on April 5th. I then phoned "bill pays" customer support center voicing my concern about the new format requirement of BB and whether my transfer could be rejected. During the 20 minute call, I was in a 3 party chat with 2 support staff, who after reviewing their ACH transfer protocol assured me that their format met the requirements for the bank to bank transfers per US regulations.  Their interpretation was that the new international require format applied to the bank that was actually sending the money overseas and that it was possible BB NY had not been compiling to government regulations and was issued a warning. 

   This morning, I received an SMS from BB that my transfer had been received. So at least for me, all the prior topics voicing concerns over finding alternate means to transfer money other than thru BB NY are moot.

      

 

    

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

You're missing a few pieces of the puzzle.

 

No. 1 -- BKKB NY did NOT cut off normal ACH transfers from the U.S. to Thailand on April 1, as they had publicly stated they were going to do last year. So, at least for right now, all normal ACH transfers thru the New York branch are going thru just as always. However, the cutoff has only been delayed, not reversed.

 

No. 2 -- So, you really won't know whether your bill pay approach to BKKB NY and onward to Thailand is going to continue to work for the future until AFTER BKKB NY implements their promised change, which is to require that all transfers are compatible with something called IAT (International ACH Transaction). In all likelihood, your billpay payments probably are NOT IAT compatible.

 

No. 3 - The unknown detail right now is how long is BKKB NY's postponement of the cutoff going to last? A week, a month, months? No one knows, and thus far, staff at the NY Branch haven't been willing to publicly give any definite timeframe. So things are a bit in limbo.

 

Bottom line -  I wouldn't, just yet, think you can rely on your billpay approach as a long-term solution for the future, and start discarding or forgetting attention to other U.S. to Thailand transfer methods that you may need in the future to take the place of BKKB NY.

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

 

Yea...Bangkok Bank has just delayed the implementation to an unannounced date to give customers more time to get their transfers corrected to IAT format or find an alternative transfer service. See below post which quotes a Bangkok Bank NY response in early Apr 19.

 

 

[Jeffrey346]

When BKKB announced the new IAT format I started using TransferWise. It's now 4-5 months and every transfer [2 per month] has been received as an international transfer. Plus, I get my transfer the same or next day at a much better conversion rate.

 

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, Jeffrey346 said:

When BKKB announced the new IAT format I started using TransferWise. It's now 4-5 months and every transfer [2 per month] has been received as an international transfer. Plus, I get my transfer the same or next day at a much better conversion rate.

 

As the Tallguy mentioned, there has been no change to the ACH system through BKK bank NY.  So you really have no idea whether your new transfer method is really in compliant with the new IAT requirement.  I just sent a non-IAT on 3 Apr and received 5 Apr.  I'm still hoping BKK bank doesn't implement the change at all. 

[wwest5829]

Agree Jeff. I have just gone through all this with Fidelity, Bangkok Bank NYC. My next scheduled automatic monthly transfer from Fidelity via Bangkok Bank NYC, as I have used for the past 7.8 years is to take place later this month. In the meantime I have set up and tested using TransferWise if Bangkok Bank NYC rejects my transfer to them as not being IAT compliant. Both Fidelity and Bangkok Bank NYC have confirmed that my previous transfers have not been IAT compliant. So, I will see and have an immediate fall back if needed.

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

I'm still hoping BKK bank doesn't implement the change at all. 

The change was not a decision made by Bangkok Bank. It was due to enforcement of US law. The government wants foreign transfers clearly designated as such and not appear to be domestic transfers.

 

Of course it's possible that BKK is negotiating a workaround other than the largely unavailable IAT format.

[cycolista]

2 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

When BKKB announced the new IAT format I started using TransferWise. It's now 4-5 months and every transfer [2 per month] has been received as an international transfer. Plus, I get my transfer the same or next day at a much better conversion rate.

 

How do you get same day ir next day transfer?  My last transfer took week. 

[just bob]

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

In the meantime I have set up and tested using TransferWise

Wow, thanks for that info.  I just set up an account and did a test transfer.  It showed me the exchange rate and all fees right up front and gave me a confirmation in fifteen seconds then told me the funds should appear in my BB account by tomorrow morning.  That's a few days quicker than the NYC BB transfers from my US account and much more transparent on fees.  Winner winner chicken dinner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[armadillo215]

20 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

You're missing a few pieces of the puzzle.

 

No. 1 -- BKKB NY did NOT cut off normal ACH transfers from the U.S. to Thailand on April 1, as they had publicly stated they were going to do last year. So, at least for right now, all normal ACH transfers thru the New York branch are going thru just as always. However, the cutoff has only been delayed, not reversed.

 

No. 2 -- So, you really won't know whether your bill pay approach to BKKB NY and onward to Thailand is going to continue to work for the future until AFTER BKKB NY implements their promised change, which is to require that all transfers are compatible with something called IAT (International ACH Transaction). In all likelihood, your billpay payments probably are NOT IAT compatible.

 

No. 3 - The unknown detail right now is how long is BKKB NY's postponement of the cutoff going to last? A week, a month, months? No one knows, and thus far, staff at the NY Branch haven't been willing to publicly give any definite timeframe. So things are a bit in limbo.

 

Bottom line -  I wouldn't, just yet, think you can rely on your billpay approach as a long-term solution for the future, and start discarding or forgetting attention to other U.S. to Thailand transfer methods that you may need in the future to take the place of BKKB NY.

 

 

 

I also had used BKK NY and read they were going to discontinue the service. I then saw a post about TransferWise and checked it out. Far better and cheaper than BKK NY which even charges to make a deposit for God's sake. TransferWise opens an account in your name in NY, gives you routing # acct. # etc. I set that acct up in my USAA acct. and now transfer directly from my USAA acct. to my T/W acct. and the only fee is a % of the amount you send. For instance if I send $1600 I think I paid $13. The money goes to your T/W acct. where it sits until you forward it to the recipient you enter. I my case my BKKB here. You are also able to wait until exchange rates are where you want them. The rates remain the same as they are when you make your transfer until the deposit is made unlike using the BKKB service not knowing the exchange rate until deposit is completed. You can give them your acct. info including your password and they can do an ACH tranfer for you but there is a charge. You can also do swift trans. Doing it the way I do is the same as before with BKK NY accept rather than paying apptox $24-5 I now only pay less for the same type transaction. I recommend everyone check it out. You can transfer funds from many countries. The company is based in the UK.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by armadillo215

[Kelsall]

34 minutes ago, armadillo215 said:

I also had used BKK NY and read they were going to discontinue the service. I then saw a post about TransferWise and checked it out. Far better and cheaper than BKK NY which even charges to make a deposit for God's sake. TransferWise opens an account in your name in NY, gives you routing # acct. # etc. I set that acct up in my USAA acct. and now transfer directly from my USAA acct. to my T/W acct. and the only fee is a % of the amount you send. For instance if I send $1600 I think I paid $13. The money goes to your T/W acct. where it sits until you forward it to the recipient you enter. I my case my BKKB here. You are also able to wait until exchange rates are where you want them. The rates remain the same as they are when you make your transfer until the deposit is made unlike using the BKKB service not knowing the exchange rate until deposit is completed. You can give them your acct. info including your password and they can do an ACH tranfer for you but there is a charge. You can also do swift trans. Doing it the way I do is the same as before with BKK NY accept rather than paying apptox $24-5 I now only pay less for the same type transaction. I recommend everyone check it out. You can transfer funds from many countries. The company is based in the UK.

 

 

I hear you and the others, armadillo, and in fact have done the same.  In my case I need to start monthly transfers in January and looked into the BKK Bank direct deposit account.  Comparing fees, FX rates, and overall convenience, TW is the hands down winner.  I've done some test transfers from the US to my current BKK Bank account in Chiang Mai.  TW tells me they will take a few days to complete.  Yep, Transferwise is definitely worth checking out.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Kelsall

[armadillo215]

5 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

I hear you, armadillo, and in fact have done the same.  In my case I need to start monthly transfers in January and looked into the BKK Bank direct deposit account.  Comparing fees, FX rates, and overall convenience, TW is the hands down winner.  I've done some test transfers from the US to my current BKK Bank account in Chiang Mai.  TW tells me they will take a few days to complete.  Yep, Transferwise is definitely worth checking out.

Yes and having your SS or whatever direct deposited to BKKB there is a charge and you must go to the bank to get money. No online access.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, armadillo215 said:

I recommend everyone check it out. You can transfer funds from many countries. The company is based in the UK.

 

Transferwise has been WELL discussed here in various threads....

 

Probably, at some point, the use of BKKB NY for customer-sent ACH transfers will go away for most U.S. users, because their banks won't allow them to send the IAT compatible ACH transfers that BKKB NY plans to start requiring at some unknown future point...

 

But until then, Transferwise is not automatically a better or worse deal than BKKB NY, depending on the amount you want to send, because they have fundamentally different fee structures. BKKB NY has a sliding scale flat fee structure. Transferwise has a predominantly fixed percentage fee structure based on the amount you send.

 

So the upshot of that is, Transferwise may be more economical for smaller transfer amounts up to maybe $4000 or so.... But once the transfer amounts start getting larger than that, BKKB NY often tends to become a better deal because they don't have a fixed percentage fee that continues getting larger and larger the more money you send.

 

BTW, for the future, even if BKKB NY does start requiring IAT compatible ACH transfers in the future, which basically are unavailable to most/all U.S. banking customers, the NY branch still has confirmed that they will continue to accept and forward regular domestic wire transfers sent to their NY ABA routing number along with your BKKB TH account number.

 

The difference there, however, is most U.S. banking customers will have access to sending domestic wire transfers, but usually for a fee by their sending bank, typically much less than an international wire fee, but still usually some fee. Whereas right now for most U.S. banking customers, sending a domestic U.S. ACH transfer most often is free.

 

So for anyone who has access to free U.S. domestic wire transfers or low-fee domestic wires with any of their financial institutions, that's a path for U.S. to TH transfers via the BKKB NY branch that's going to continue to work -- regardless of what ultimately happens with the ACH/IAT transfers issue.

 

PS - My comments above are regarding CUSTOMER-private party initiated transfers. There's a whole separate issue and discussion about what's going on with government payments (Social Security etc.) and their path thru BKKB NY and onward to Thailand, which is gradually getting worked out as the federal payors get their payroll systems upgraded to IAT compatibility.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, Berkshire said:

As the Tallguy mentioned, there has been no change to the ACH system through BKK bank NY.  So you really have no idea whether your new transfer method is really in compliant with the new IAT requirement.  I just sent a non-IAT on 3 Apr and received 5 Apr.  I'm still hoping BKK bank doesn't implement the change at all. 

 

1. All indications right now are that BKKB "WILL" implement the change requiring IAT compatibility for ACH transfers, at some point. But right now, we just don't know when. There's no sign at all that them backing off on the prior April 1 cutoff date is any kind of reversal... rather... just a delay.

 

2. Anyone who's sending money thru the NY branch now CAN, RIGHT NOW, check on the sending status of that transfer by contacting BKKB HQ and asking them to check on its IAT compatibility of your particular transaction.

 

Right now, for U.S. accountholders, I'd say there's a 99% likelihood that ANY ACH transfer that a private party customers sends right now from most any U.S. financial institution is likely to be NOT IAT compatible.

 

However, where the checking status part is more likely to be more helpful is for those who are receiving Social Security, military pensions and other government payments sent thru BKKB NY. In those instances, many are IAT compatible right now, but some are not. And with Social Security, it's possible to have them change background details for a particular recipient to get a currently NON IAT compatible payment switched to an IAT compatible payment. So in those cases, it's well worth checking with BKKB about the status of a government payment you may be receiving.

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[NancyL]

One nice feature of doing ACH transfers from my U.S. credit union to my local Bangkok Bank account is that I can set them up to be done automatically, same amount on the same day of each month.  That's how I "pay our pensions" into our Bangkok Bank accounts since we don't need to have the full amount of our pensions transferred here, saving some back in the U.S. to pay U.S. bills.

 

Is it possible to set up similar automatic payments with Transferwise?  I've done a few transfers with their service and like it, but in searching their website I couldn't see where recurring automatic transfers were possible, at least for an individual (non-business) account.

[Berkshire]

20 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

BTW, for the future, even if BKKB NY does start requiring IAT compatible ACH transfers in the future, which basically are unavailable to most/all U.S. banking customers, the NY branch still has confirmed that they will continue to accept and forward regular domestic wire transfers sent to their NY ABA routing number along with your BKKB TH account number.

 

The difference there, however, is most U.S. banking customers will have access to sending domestic wire transfers, but usually for a fee by their sending bank, typically much less than an international wire fee, but still usually some fee. Whereas right now for most U.S. banking customers, sending a domestic U.S. ACH transfer most often is free.

 

Again, you're correct regarding wire transfers.  Wire transfers are my Plan B if BKK Bank NY ever stopped taking non-IAT ACH.  What's interesting is that a while back, I wire transferred a large sum through BKK Bank NY (too large for ACH).  I sent it as an international transfer which has a higher fee than domestic.  Well my US bank calls up to verify as they always do, but then said "Hey, this is really a domestic transfer since it's going to NY.  We'll charge you the domestic rate."  To which I replied "Roger that."  A few months later, I sent another large transfer as a domestic and again, was accepted as a domestic transfer and charged accordingly.  So even without the ACH, we have another reasonable way to transfer funds. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

43 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Again, you're correct regarding wire transfers.  Wire transfers are my Plan B if BKK Bank NY ever stopped taking non-IAT ACH.  What's interesting is that a while back, I wire transferred a large sum through BKK Bank NY (too large for ACH).  I sent it as an international transfer which has a higher fee than domestic.  Well my US bank calls up to verify as they always do, but then said "Hey, this is really a domestic transfer since it's going to NY.  We'll charge you the domestic rate."  To which I replied "Roger that."  A few months later, I sent another large transfer as a domestic and again, was accepted as a domestic transfer and charged accordingly.  So even without the ACH, we have another reasonable way to transfer funds. 

 

That's correct... When I tried the same kind of thing lately....

 

1. I entered the BKKB NY Swift code in my financial entity's domestic wire sending setup, and it refused to accept it, saying domestic wires could only be addressed using the 9 digit ABA/routing number.

 

2. So then I switched from the NY branch's Swift address to their routing number address, and that worked fine for purposes of a domestic wire transfer, along with my BKKB TH account number.

 

FYI, BKKB NY charges the same sliding scale amount sent-based handling fees for receiving domestic wires as they do right now for receiving ACH transfers, so their fee structure is exactly the same. And AFAIK, the same is true on the BKKB TH end, where they're going to take their 0.25% commission fee capped at 500 baht either way -- for receiving an ACH or a domestic wire sent thru their NY branch.

 

In my case, just as one example, I have one entity that will allow me to send a limited number of domestic wires each quarter for free, so that's great. And, I have another that charges a $15 fee per domestic wire, which isn't bad. Both of which can be done entirely online without phone calls or faxing or otherwise sending paperwork. Beyond those two, all my other entities tend to have domestic wire fees of $20 or more per wire.

 

If I didn't have free, and instead was facing a $20 or more domestic wire fee PLUS the fees charged by the NY branch and the TH branch of BKKB, that's when I'd probably start looking at Transferwise or OFX as alternatives...depending on the amount I wanted to send.

Edited April 10, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Jeffrey346]

4 hours ago, cycolista said:

How do you get same day ir next day transfer?  My last transfer took week. 

I have no idea.. On 3/28 I did a transfer at 6:27 AM. The funds hit my account at 2pm the same day.

On 4/3 I did a transfer at 1:20PM, it hit my account on 04/04 at 2:05PM. 

Most of my TW transactions takes 1 day 2 max.

[Lobo74]

How were you able to receive the text transfer authorization code from your US bank? Do you have a US cell number?

[Pib]

35 minutes ago, gfwilcox said:

How were you able to receive the text transfer authorization code from your US bank? Do you have a US cell number?

Banks have different procedures as to "if" they need to send you a code to initiate a transfer.  Some require a text code to be sent only to a mobile number....some will send it to an email address....some don't even require it.  

[TGIR]

I posted on this subject a while back that I use Wells Fargo and didn't anticipate any problems......haven't transferred anything in since about the first of the month but have this observation:   Since Bangkok Bank has a branch in New York, any transfers I make are not international, they are domestic.  Bangkok Bank I'm sure doesn't actually transfer any money to my account in Cha Am, but makes a memo bookkeeping entry to transfer the amount to my Cha Am account.   Anyone else know different?  

 

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by TGIR

[Pib]

24 minutes ago, TGIR said:

I posted on this subject a while back that I use Wells Fargo and didn't anticipate any problems......haven't transferred anything in since about the first of the month but have this observation:   Since Bangkok Bank has a branch in New York, any transfers I make are not international, they are domestic.  Bangkok Bank I'm sure doesn't actually transfer any money to my account in Cha Am, but makes a memo bookkeeping entry to transfer the amount to my Cha Am account.   Anyone else know different?  

It's really a transfer otherwise Bangkok Bank would not be having this IAT issue.  Of course any funds transfer....be it ACH or SWIFT or Transferwise....is really a bookkeeping exercise but it still counts as a real money transfer governed by govt regulations.....just like you have flew over with a suitcase full of money.

 

And I think Bangkok Bank uses SWIFT from their NY branch to the Bangkok Bank head office, but of course they can do a SWIFT transfer dirt cheap.  I say this because I've seen documentation on some of my ACH transfers and one of my wife's SS pension payments and it said "SWIFT Message" at the top.

[Chi Flyer]

12 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

When BKKB announced the new IAT format I started using TransferWise. It's now 4-5 months and every transfer [2 per month] has been received as an international transfer. Plus, I get my transfer the same or next day at a much better conversion rate.

 

I set up a TransferWise account as a backup process given the Bangkok Bank change. I had been doing domestic transfers to the BB NY Branch from Charles Schwab for over a year. My main process at this time is SWIFT from Charles Schwab. Their SWIFT transfers have a fixed fee if $25 USD regardless of amount. TransferWise charges a percentage of the amount sent.

 

I am someone who sends larger (by my standards) amounts twice a year. I find that both the SWIFT and Transferwise transfers take in general two working days. Yes, TransferWise offers better exchange rates. I have calculated that the break even point between the two methods is at about the $3000 USD level. So I do my bigger transfers with SWIFT and if I need to top up a little, I use TransferWise.

 

I found that setting up a TransferWise account was quick, simple, and intuitive. Their software interface to do the transfer was also excellent. SWIFT not so much, but it was also not a major pain.

[longball53098]

14 hours ago, Pib said:

Banks have different procedures as to "if" they need to send you a code to initiate a transfer.  Some require a text code to be sent only to a mobile number....some will send it to an email address....some don't even require it.  

I have 2 banks in US that use the OTP for some transactions now. How do I overcome this as I have not had a US cell number for more than 15 years. I tried my Skype number but cannot use that. United States National Bank is going to a OTP for logging in online.

[Langsuan Man]

32 minutes ago, longball53098 said:

I have 2 banks in US that use the OTP for some transactions now. How do I overcome this as I have not had a US cell number for more than 15 years. I tried my Skype number but cannot use that. United States National Bank is going to a OTP for logging in online.

How do I overcome this

 

Get a Google Voice number.  I have never had my Google Voice number rejected for US Bank OTP requirements

 

In fact USAA initiating such a policy was what forced me to obtain one.  Have used whenever I am required to provide any vendor a US cell phone number.  If one comes in it automatically goes to my Gmail inbox and I receive a notification that it is there.  Also great for filling in online forms that require a cell number to register 

 

Best thing, unlike Skype, it is free

[longball53098]

5 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

How do I overcome this

 

Get a Google Voice number.  I have never had my Google Voice number rejected for US Bank OTP requirements

 

In fact USAA initiating such a policy was what forced me to obtain one.  Have used whenever I am required to provide any vendor a US cell phone number.  If one comes in it automatically goes to my Gmail inbox and I receive a notification that it is there.  Also great for filling in online forms that require a cell number to register 

 

Best thing, unlike Skype, it is free

Lman, thanks for the input here. I tried setting up a GV number but could not from Thailand even though my Google account was created in US. Do I need to use my VPN and log in from a US IP?

[Langsuan Man]

2 minutes ago, longball53098 said:

Lman, thanks for the input here. I tried setting up a GV number but could not from Thailand even though my Google account was created in US. Do I need to use my VPN and log in from a US IP?

I don't remember if I had to use a VPN or not but I am positive I was in Thailand when I set it up

 

I would try again before I went the VPN route, since I don't know if Google monitors VPN usage, it is an unknown.  Maybe someone else will post who has obtained a GV number while located in Thailand 

[longball53098]

1 minute ago, Langsuan Man said:

I don't remember if I had to use a VPN or not but I am positive I was in Thailand when I set it up

 

I would try again before I went the VPN route, since I don't know if Google monitors VPN usage, it is an unknown.  Maybe someone else will post who has obtained a GV number while located in Thailand 

I am viewing a Youtube on setting up a GV number and they require a US number to verify before creating a new number.

[Langsuan Man]

Just now, longball53098 said:

I am viewing a Youtube on setting up a GV number and they require a US number to verify before creating a new number.

Yeah, I just checked and I used my MajicJack to verify with Google for a GV #

 

58 minutes ago, longball53098 said:

I tried my Skype number but cannot use that.

  But can't you provide Google with your Skype number for verification ?

[longball53098]

Just now, Langsuan Man said:

Yeah, I just checked and I used my MajicJack to verify with Google for a GV #

 

  But can't you provide Google with your Skype number for verification ?

Have not tried that so will try it