UK parliament very likely to consider new Brexit referendum - Hammond

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, transam said:

I think we are looking to block ONE entry point......Others are now embedded in UK society.....Courts can deal with that....Hopefully...

Thanks for your honesty.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

There was no referendum on the choice between no deal, May’s deal and EU membership that anyone could accept, respect or ignore. There was an opinion poll advising the government to explore the UK leaving the EU. The government has done that over the past three years and the result of that negotiations has led to an impasse in parliament. Unless parliament can make solve it themselves, parliament might as well ask the electorate to chose. 

 

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Sadly, I've no doubt you believe this 'spin' on the referendum and it's result ☹️.

 

17 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

No spin. All of the statements in my post are factually true. If you didn’t know your own constitution at the time of the referendum you should know it now. 

 

 

The referendum was whether to leave or remain, and there's no point in going over 'it was just an opinion poll' yet again... 

 

MPs know better, which is why they are so wary of another 'opinion poll' ????!

 

It wasn't presented as an opinion poll to advise the govt. to "explore the UK leaving the EU".

 

Pure spin, as is the rest of your post.

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, wilcopops said:

..and Brexiteers claim not to be dim!

You do realise that the BBC has been criticised and proven to have a PRO Brexit bias? Evidently not.

Please tell us who you rely on for Brexit news and analysis? Fox?

"You do realise that the BBC has been criticised and proven to have a PRO Brexit bias?"

 

Link please, as it seems a little unlikely.

[dick dasterdly]

21 minutes ago, Spidey said:

 

Yep, Rotherham and several other instances of grooming gangs (of which I have personal experience) perpetrated primarily by Pakistanis and British Pakistanis. Their route to the UK was via Heathrow not Calais. Brexit would not prevent even one of their ilk migrating to the UK. 

 

However, in the run up to the referendum, gullible and blinkered Brexiteers were convinced that all of the immigration problems would be solved by Brexit. The primary immigration problem being Moslem immigrants.

 

How do I know this? I have just returned from my home town in the UK where I enjoyed an evening with a large group of long time friends in Spoonies. When the conversation turned to Brexit, it transpired that every single one of them was a Brexiteer. Every single one of them assumed that Brexit would solve the UK's immigration problems. Every single one of them stated that the primary problem was South Asian immigrants.

 

I can assure you that what Brexiteers clam to be their primary motive for voting Brexit, in public such as on TVF, is radically different to what they say amongst themselves. Nothing to do with taking back control from unelected Eurocrats. All about eradicating those with brown skin and a different religion.

 

Brexit feeds on the racist fears of those who know no better. Come on you guys...fess up.

 

 

Disagree entirely, but no doubt grouse would agree with the views you mention - and he's a fervent remainer.....

[Loiner]

There was an opinion poll advising the government to explore the UK leaving the EU. The government has done that over the past three years and the result of that negotiations has led to an impasse in parliament.

There was a referendum, not an opinion poll. We do not raise acts of Parliament for opinion polls, no matter how your bratwurst republic does things. There was no proposal for any kind of deal. It was simply, Remain or Leave?
That the devious antics of parliament’s Remainers subsequently produced the notion of a deal prior to Leaving, is the reason for the impasse. The solution is for those Remainers (mostly May) to now admit they were wrong at both stages:
1) Cobbling up a ‘deal’
2) Not being able to get that ‘deal’ past Parliament.
Time for them to Shut Up, Put Up and let the UK Leave No Deal.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

No spin. All of the statements in my post are factually true. If you didn’t know your own constitution at the time of the referendum you should know it now. 

 

 

Which constitution would that be? ????

[sandyf]

56 minutes ago, Spidey said:

 

Yep, Rotherham and several other instances of grooming gangs (of which I have personal experience) perpetrated primarily by Pakistanis and British Pakistanis. Their route to the UK was via Heathrow not Calais. Brexit would not prevent even one of their ilk migrating to the UK. 

 

However, in the run up to the referendum, gullible and blinkered Brexiteers were convinced that all of the immigration problems would be solved by Brexit. The primary immigration problem being Moslem immigrants.

 

How do I know this? I have just returned from my home town in the UK where I enjoyed an evening with a large group of long time friends in Spoonies. When the conversation turned to Brexit, it transpired that every single one of them was a Brexiteer. Every single one of them assumed that Brexit would solve the UK's immigration problems. Every single one of them stated that the primary problem was South Asian immigrants.

 

I can assure you that what Brexiteers clam to be their primary motive for voting Brexit, in public such as on TVF, is radically different to what they say amongst themselves. Nothing to do with taking back control from unelected Eurocrats. All about eradicating those with brown skin and a different religion.

 

Brexit feeds on the racist fears of those who know no better. Come on you guys...fess up.

 

 

I lived in Sheffield in the period the abuse was taking place and although the focus was on Rotherham it was much more widespread. The racial situation was quite volatile, parts of Sheffield were effectively no-go areas and the police had one arm up their backs with the race relations act. I was self employed and working in Burnley in 2001 at the time of the riots, the town was absolutely devastated and again down to the Asian community.

For a long time there has been in many parts a sense of resentment against the ethnic communities and not always without just cause. When brexit came along it was a golden opportunity to voice that resentment, but as you say completely misdirected.

[geoffbezoz]

9 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Which constitution would that be? ????

Its the same one that I asked for a link to in my post #510 and still waiting for a reply to.  I think you and I and many others understand exactly the fairy tales or else just downright trolling that certain TV members believe  or rely upon to boost their "posting" targets. I think most educated people are fully aware that the UK does not have a written constitution

Edited April 22, 2019 by geoffbezoz

[welovesundaysatspace]

18 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

I think most educated people are fully aware that the UK does not have a written constitution

Whereas most uneducated people don’t understand that even a non-written constitution is a constituent. ???? 

[geoffbezoz]

Just now, welovesundaysatspace said:

Whereas most uneducated people don’t understand that even a non-written constitution is a constituent. ???? 

Total twaddle  and a figment of your own imagination when your ealier comments are proven to have no basis for your delusional statements. By your reckoning I suspect all 40 million, or thereabouts voters, would have their own Constitution version in their minds ????????????

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

It was simply, Remain or Leave?

You really believe that people voted on the basis that the cost of the outcome was irrelevant.

 

Those that voted to leave must have done so on the understanding that their vote could potentially lead to the break up of the United Kingdom, although I doubt the thought ever crossed their mind.

Scotland and NI did not want to leave the EU so they should get the option of leaving the UK, that would be real democracy.

 

Bottom line is that every member of the tory party(Conservative and Unionist) that voted to leave went against the tory unionist policy. Time to stand up and be counted.

[sandyf]

9 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Whereas most uneducated people don’t understand that even a non-written constitution is a constituent. ???? 

Exactly, the UK constitution may be unwritten but it is held together by a multitude of Acts of Parliament and other legal instruments. The confusion comes from the fact there is no single entity named the constitution, a bit like a folder as opposed to a file.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, geoffbezoz said:

By your reckoning I suspect all 40 million, or thereabouts voters, would have their own Constitution version in their minds ????????????

No, that’s by your reckoning, according to which the UK doesn’t have a constitution. Sad to see how uneducated and ill informed Brexiteers really are. Not knowing their own constitution and that their beloved kingdom has one, while babbling about what great patriots they are. Poor fools. 

[Loiner]

You really believe that people voted on the basis that the cost of the outcome was irrelevant.
 
Those that voted to leave must have done so on the understanding that their vote could potentially lead to the break up of the United Kingdom, although I doubt the thought ever crossed their mind.
Scotland and NI did not want to leave the EU so they should get the option of leaving the UK, that would be real democracy.
 
Bottom line is that every member of the tory party(Conservative and Unionist) that voted to leave went against the tory unionist policy. Time to stand up and be counted.

Costs were not irrelevant, but you ignore the savings and opportunities.
Even a potential break up of the Union is highly unlikely, except in the minds of the SNP. If push came to shove, I’d let them go. Real democracy is in the whole of the electorate accepting the majority result, not splitting into moaning factions afterwards. (Is that you on both counts?) Real democracy has happened once so far, in the Scottish Independence referendum, which you are now stuck with. We are still waiting for the second time in the EU Membership referendum.
You only need to count those who voted to Leave the EU. The whole Union leaves together. One out, all out.

[sandyf]

On 4/22/2019 at 5:33 PM, Loiner said:

Costs were not irrelevant, but you ignore the savings and opportunities.
Even a potential break up of the Union is highly unlikely, except in the minds of the SNP. If push came to shove, I’d let them go. Real democracy is in the whole of the electorate accepting the majority result, not splitting into moaning factions afterwards. (Is that you on both counts?) Real democracy has happened once so far, in the Scottish Independence referendum, which you are now stuck with. We are still waiting for the second time in the EU Membership referendum.
You only need to count those who voted to Leave the EU. The whole Union leaves together. One out, all out.

Savings and opportunities are a brexiteer myth, It will take decades to get over the cost of brexit and the damage from lost opportunities will never be known.

I am too old to be bothered by the outcome one way or another but I do believe in common justice and the concept of beyond reasonable doubt. The people of Scotland have as much right to determine their own future as the English do, with 84% of the UK population being English and 16% split 3 ways, the concept of a "Whole Union" is meaningless.

Circumstances change and everyone has the right to reconsider their position, TM has put the same question to the House on several occasions, surely what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

[transam]

14 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Savings and opportunities are a brexiteer myth, It will take decades to get over the cost of brexit and the damage from lost opportunities will never be known.

I am too old to be bothered by the outcome one way or another but I do believe in common justice and the concept of beyond reasonable doubt. The people of Scotland have as much right to determine their own future as the English do, with 84% of the UK population being English and 16% split 3 ways, the concept of a "Whole Union" is meaningless.

Circumstances change and everyone has the right to reconsider their position, TM has put the same question to the House on several occasions, surely what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Did we get over the cost of WW2 and prosper...?

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Did we get over the cost of WW2 and prosper...?

It took a long time. People were still living in temporary housing (prefabs) until the 1970s.

[welovesundaysatspace]

On 4/22/2019 at 5:33 PM, Loiner said:

Costs were not irrelevant, but you ignore the savings and opportunities.
Even a potential break up of the Union is highly unlikely, except in the minds of the SNP. If push came to shove, I’d let them go. Real democracy is in the whole of the electorate accepting the majority result, not splitting into moaning factions afterwards. (Is that you on both counts?) Real democracy has happened once so far, in the Scottish Independence referendum, which you are now stuck with. We are still waiting for the second time in the EU Membership referendum.
You only need to count those who voted to Leave the EU. The whole Union leaves together. One out, all out.

Undemocratic Brexit bully boys trying to teach us what “real democracy” is? No, thanks. 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

It took a long time. People were still living in temporary housing (prefabs) until the 1970s.

Correct but that was a totally different scenario as many parts of the UK were flattened and had to be rebuilt, cheap temporary housing was needed, plus pay back zillions of dollars to the USA.

[Spidey]

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 11:33 AM, Loiner said:

We are still waiting for the second time in the EU Membership referendum.

We've already had 2. 1975 and 2016. We're waiting for a third to break the deadlock.

[geoffbezoz]

8 minutes ago, Spidey said:

It took a long time. People were still living in temporary housing (prefabs) until the 1970s.

They had been living in them far more recently than that

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/excalibur-estate-prefab-homes

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

Correct but that was a totally different scenario as many parts of the UK were flattened and had to be rebuilt, cheap temporary housing was needed, plus pay back zillions of dollars to the USA.

You asked the question. Sorry you didn't like the answer.

[Loiner]

Savings and opportunities are a brexiteer myth, It will take decades to get over the cost of brexit and the damage from lost opportunities will never be known.
I am too old to be bothered by the outcome one way or another but I do believe in common justice and the concept of beyond reasonable doubt. The people of Scotland have as much right to determine their own future as the English do, with 84% of the UK population being English and 16% split 3 ways, the concept of a "Whole Union" is meaningless.
Circumstances change and everyone has the right to reconsider their position, TM has put the same question to the House on several occasions, surely what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Saving 8 or 9 Bn annually to the EU slush fund. Savings on imported goods not subject to EU protectionism. The opportunities for UK world trade are many fold but you are blinkered to them. The myth is in Remainer Armageddon at Brexit.
No special rules for Scotland. You had your referendum and the majority decide to stay in the Union. Democracy in action again - the other referendum you don’t like the result of.
May puts her surrender treaty to parliament and it gets voted out three (maybe four) times. We haven’t left with a surrender deal. Democracy in action again.

[transam]

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

You asked the question. Sorry you didn't like the answer.

Nothing wrong with your answer except the situation we were in after WW2 was a mega problem that we dealt with and prospered. Brexit is not a mega problem, it is just sorting out folk across the pond again....????

[Loiner]

Undemocratic Brexit bully boys trying to teach us what “real democracy” is? No, thanks. 

Nothing undemocratic about requiring the result of the referendum to be implemented. Jacob and Co bully boys? What a bunch of wimps you Remainers are.
Nothing like the EU bullying of 27 hanging up to vote again the wishes of a single one. Why have none of the EU gravy train riders said “We must respect the result of the UK referendum and help them to Leave quickly and orderly? Then we cans make new deals with the UK.” That would be real democracy.

[Loiner]

We've already had 2. 1975 and 2016. We're waiting for a third to break the deadlock.

We haven’t implemented the 2016 one yet, because people like you are blocking it in Parliament.

[geoffbezoz]

3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

We haven’t implemented the 2016 one yet, because people like you are blocking it in Parliament.

Spidey,  As an Honourable Member of parliament, as you must be by "Loiner" telling us you are blocking it in parliament,  quite what do you think you are doing in Pattaya ? ???? You havn't taken Theresa May away with you for a dirty Easter break ? If so as we discussed yesterday, bet she is the one that rides on top - can you confirm ?????

Edited April 24, 2019 by geoffbezoz

[Loiner]

Spidey,  As an Honourable Member of parliament, as you must be by "Loiner" telling us you are blocking it in parliament,  quite what do you think you are doing in Pattaya ? [emoji23] You havn't taken Theresa May away with you for a dirty Easter break ?

“...like you...”
read it properly or pizz take doesn’t work.

[Spidey]

30 minutes ago, Loiner said:

We haven’t implemented the 2016 one yet, because people like you are blocking it in Parliament.

I'm not an MP. 

 

1st referendum - remain win. 2nd referendum - Brexit win. Best of three to settle it. It's the democratic way.

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I'm not an MP. 

 

1st referendum - remain win. 2nd referendum - Brexit win. Best of three to settle it. It's the democratic way.

You can have your third referendum after we've had our second, that's how democracy works.