Do you believe in God and why

[Sunmaster]

Just now, moogradod said:

It is even relatively easy to prove that such entity cannot exist

????

[mauGR1]

27 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I would say hard work pays off in reality in most cases, be it individuals, families, tribes, societies, countries, allies and finely hopefully the world and universe forces ???? Some call it socialism. Sharing is caring.

 

But we know there is always a chance for a different outcome than we wish for. 
 

Every choice we make, and every action we take have different outcome for good and bad.

 

I believe we have reached our top of our evolution, and now turn in to materialistic egoists, and become individuals with self destructive minds with good help of social media, and thats the doom day for humanity, and why we will never see aliens. Its in our dna, like a time bomb, everything will finely collaps, and restart

That's quite agreeable, and i share very often the same mindset. 

But we already know since long that one day we  will lose everything we have, including the physical body.

That imho,  will be a new start, rather than the end.

So now, I'm trying to figure out what I can take with me which is not material. 

I think that every thought and memory which is good and true, all the rest is useless. 

Oh, i also would prefer socialism over the excesses of nowadays capitalism, but good ideals are indeed hard to be put in practice when the leaders and most of all people are selfish. 

[Hummin]

6 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

That's quite agreeable, and i share very often the same mindset. 

But we already know since long that one day we  will lose everything we have, including the physical body.

That imho,  will be a new start, rather than the end.

So now, I'm trying to figure out what I can take with me which is not material. 

I think that every thought and memory which is good and true, all the rest is useless. 

Oh, i also would prefer socialism over the excesses of nowadays capitalism, but good ideals are indeed hard to be put in practice when the leaders and most of all people are selfish. 

Homo sapiens genetic mistake was the verbal communication, understanding and later managed to put the communication in to written language. Or maybe not? The more I read, understand, see, the more I appreciate my time on this planet earth. And that is the most important discovery I have made in my life. Second the love for the absolutely beautifully nature and dangers connected to live a life where you get out in the nature alone, and challenge yourself and manage the fear of truly living, the risk involving making a step in to the unknown, for an example jumping off a cliff and fly down to the valley and landing safe, and repeat it. 
 

The journey to the top itself, discovering the wild life, the geology, knowing the history of this planet, and add difficulties like weather, snow, ice, and still manage to do it, even loosing friends on the journey, made it worth it. 
 

Its in our genes, to manage the extreme, and conquer fear. 
 

Of course, my extremes is little to what my ancestors have faced, and that is my advise to you, bring your wisdom, your ancestors experiences, and be ready for your next journey. If there is any, you will need it. 

[mauGR1]

11 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Homo sapiens genetic mistake was the verbal communication, understanding and later managed to put the communication in to written language. Or maybe not? The more I read, understand, see, the more I appreciate my time on this planet earth. And that is the most important discovery I have made in my life. Second the love for the absolutely beautifully nature and dangers connected to live a life where you get out in the nature alone, and challenge yourself and manage the fear of truly living, the risk involving making a step in to the unknown, for an example jumping off a cliff and fly down to the valley and landing safe, and repeat it. 
 

The journey to the top itself, discovering the wild life, the geology, knowing the history of this planet, and add difficulties like weather, snow, ice, and still manage to do it, even loosing friends on the journey, made it worth it. 
 

Its in our genes, to manage the extreme, and conquer fear. 
 

Of course, my extremes is little to what my ancestors have faced, and that is my advise to you, bring your wisdom, your ancestors experiences, and be ready for your next journey. If there is any, you will need it. 

Thanks for sharing, and for the advice. 

I also have been doing a lot of outdoor activities, mainly climbing mountains, for many years, so i can relate with the feeling of offering one's life in exchange for some wild and pure joy of living, and beautiful landscapes. 

Enjoying the view from above gives one some great insights, and the more the struggle to reach the top, the more the joy and the perception of freedom. 

In fact, I could say that the only thing to be afraid, is fear itself. 

 

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

 I could say that the only thing to be afraid, is fear itself. 

 

Fear can be just doing normal daily things, so it is a wide broad interesting thing that affects us daily. 
 

For me it was speaking in public and tv interviews. Never got that right because of fear, a fear I really could not understand, and still do not understand. 
 

Everything I wanted to say, I never managed to do the way I planned or the way I wanted. I always tumbled in my words high on adrenalin and cortisol. But climbing up icy mountains, ski, jump, fly down, freediving and driving motorbike in Thailand within my limits, face to face with drugged drunk aggressive people, always felt in control. 
 

I pushed myself every time, rehearsed myself several times, but never managed to control that fear. 
 

Every spontaneous interview I managed surprisingly well. 

[Photoguy21]

On 4/14/2019 at 9:55 PM, marcusarelus said:

Harvey the rabbit and Bokononism because a drunk in a bar in New Orleans a long time ago told me to.  

Harvey makes things up. Ask his brother Gerald he will give you more accurate information

[mauGR1]

11 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Fear can be just doing normal daily things, so it is a wide broad interesting thing that affects us daily. 

Without going too much into details, it's safe to say that fear is something that, soon or later, everyone has to experience. 

In the case of some apparently unreasonable fear, i would explain it with past life experiences, kind of scars of the soul.

Some masters insist on challenging one's fear until victory is achieved, recently I'm working on the fear of swimming in deep water, and i feel better as i make some progress. 

I have other fears of course, but I'm not really in a hurry, guess I'll have to come back again on this planet to do some more work????

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Without going too much into details, it's safe to say that fear is something that, soon or later, everyone has to experience. 

In the case of some apparently unreasonable fear, i would explain it with past life experiences, kind of scars of the soul.

Some masters insist on challenging one's fear until victory is achieved, recently I'm working on the fear of swimming in deep water, and i feel better as i make some progress. 

I have other fears of course, but I'm not really in a hurry, guess I'll have to come back again on this planet to do some more work????

I believe you also say, it doesnt necessery going to be this planet, or in this singularity dimension we experience, I have understood you correctly.

 

Or do you also believe what we see, experience here is stationary, and we will return to same place, same start but with a wider consensus for every time and different outcome?
 

A pure upgraded reset? 
 

????
 

 

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

I believe you also say, it doesnt necessery going to be this planet, or in this singularity dimension we experience, I have understood you correctly.

 

Or do you also believe what we see, experience here is stationary, and we will return to same place, same start but with a wider consensus for every time and different outcome?
 

A pure upgraded reset? 
 

????
 

 

As they say, the ways of the lord are infinite, so we can just speculate without any certainty. 

We have to consider that a belief, any kind of belief, can become a mental prison, so keeping an open mind is a safe option.

[Tippaporn]

On 8/18/2022 at 9:43 PM, VincentRJ said:

Of course I believe that accidents and unpredictable events occur. I also believe in rationality, common sense, logic, the process of cause and effect, good behaviour, compassion, and so on and on.

 

Whatever you believe in has to be clearly defined in order to have a rational discussion. I've just searched for some dictionary definitions of 'chance', on the internet. The following 4 definitions are the most common. I've highlighted the crucial words in each definition that supports my understanding of the concept of 'chance'.

 

(1) a possibility of something happening.
(2) the occurrence of events in the absence of any obvious intention or cause.
(3) something that happens unpredictably without discernible human intention or observable cause
(4) the fortuitous or incalculable element in existence

 

In summary, I use the word chance to describe any event when the causes are unpredictable, unobservable, indiscernable and/or incalculable.

 

If we had the ability to continuously monitor all activities in our environment, at the atomic, molecular and photonic level, (which is impossible) then probably nothing would occur by chance. I say 'probably', because in Quantum Mechanics even the act of observation itself might cause some unpredictable behaviour of photons.

Okay, I'll stop beating the dead horse over definitions and try a different tact.

From my understanding, based on what you wrote and your offered definitions, you are saying that you believe there is a cause for all things.  Can we take that further to say you also believe there is a reason for or purpose behind any cause?

Say you were in a hypothetical automobile accident.  You slid into the vehicle in front of you due to an icy patch in the road.  The technical cause would obviously be the ice, thereby neutering your braking system.  Would you be able to identify and assign a reason or purpose for the accident?

[Tippaporn]

On 8/18/2022 at 10:22 PM, VincentRJ said:

On 8/18/2022 at 8:46 PM, Tippaporn said:

I'll buy your edited version of Twain's quote as being more technically correct.  I think Twain wrote it as such to put the emphasis on the second part of his observation.

I think we're all capable of thinking of examples for either part of the statement.  That's easy enough.  But what about answering the point I was making with that Twain quote?

"Ask yourself how much you think you know to be true but it "just ain't so."  How convinced are you that everything you think you know is indeed true? "

 

As I've tried to explain, I believe in the 'Methodology of Science' which begins with a Hypothesis and can gradually develop into a Theory, if and when calculations and sound experiments, which must also allow a falsification process, eventually support the Hypothesis.

 

Both Hypotheses and Theories can be shown to be wrong as new evidence and data become available, so it's quite possible I might be wrong about many issues. However, I tend not to change my mind until I become aware of new evidence that meets my own standards, based on my own interpretation of the 'Methodology of Science'.

 

Regarding 'how much I know', I accept that I know very, very, very little, compared to the whole of human knowledge, and the whole of human knowledge is very, very little compared to what remains to be known.

Okay? ????

Let's step away from your methodology of science, scientific theories and hypotheses for a moment.  If the only things you would allow yourself to believe are true are those things that have been proven by science to be true then you would, I imagine, have an extremely difficult time discussing much of anything with anybody.  Most of your discussion would be an endless refrain of "I don't know."  In other words, would it be fair to say that, in practicality, there is much that you have an opinion or belief about as to it's truth despite the fact that science has yet to prove it?

My point is that everyone harbours as-yet-unproven-by-science beliefs about most everything; with many of those beliefs personally accepted as being true.   Now I never asked the question, "How much do you know."  I asked specifically, "Ask yourself how much you think you know to be true but it "just ain't so."  How convinced are you that everything you think you know is indeed true?"

Would you agree that there are things you say you believe you know for sure?  You can take it on faith that these questions are leading to other points.    One step at a time. 

[Tippaporn]

On 8/19/2022 at 4:44 AM, Fat is a type of crazy said:

My opinion

On 8/18/2022 at 8:58 PM, Tippaporn said:

It was a simple multiple choice question.  It can't be that difficult to pick the one you believe in.

Freedom of choice is there but limited by our capacity to think, our life experience, and what it takes to get through the day.

What we can actually do and what we are likely to do.

I could do anything right now. No god to stop me. But I don't do stuff - why. 

 

Freedom of choice by Devo has the lines:

Freedom of choice is what we got

Freedom from choice is what we want

I think the feeling of too much freedom can be difficult and upsetting. 20 choices of Muesli and soap powder at the supermarket. Starting a day of work right now rather than sitting on a beach in Thailand. For peace of mind many, if not all of us, limit our freedom so we don't think too much - we put blinkers on ourself, like for a horse,  so we can stay somewhat focused.

It's the same with politics - I see it in your Trump posts and you see it in the democrat posts. A self imposed internal bias and limitation. 

There is what we are too that explains that bias.

 

Freedom to take action is limited by our bodies and circumstance e.g. physical attributes, ability, appearance, financial situation. Some can be altered some cannot.   

 

In the longer term our freedom and ability to think becomes limited.  Our place in society, perception of our self that develops over time, having been hurt in relationships etc - they have an effect on us, make our shoulders slump or sit back confidently, our heart be a bit tired or full of spark, how 'open' our face is, and over time in reality this limits our likely decisions and options. Limits our ability to communicate and limits our actual thoughts and feelings. Hard to overcome this. 

So freedom becomes limited to avoid pain and maximise pleasure available to us. Different for different people.

So we have absolute freedom in terms of thoughts but not actions. But even our thoughts and feelings become limited as we close off some parts and open up others so the sense of freedom becomes distorted.

I'm going to set aside the entirety of your post, for now, and focus on the most important statement within it.  Not only is it the most important statement but it's a kernel of absolute truth.  You are to be commended for arriving at that most accurate of conclusions.

". . . we have absolute freedom in terms of thoughts . . ."

No truer words have ever been spoken.  Now here's the money question: What do thoughts do?  In order to avoid having the question sound too ambiguous I'll ask it in a more pointed way.  Do thoughts create real effects?

[Tippaporn]

On 8/19/2022 at 4:44 AM, Fat is a type of crazy said:

<snip>

It's the same with politics - I see it in your Trump posts and you see it in the democrat posts. A self imposed internal bias and limitation. 

<snip>

I'll need to address this in a separate post.

The sky is blue.  That statement is not a statement rooted in bias.  It's a statement which accurately reflects current reality.  Am I biased in my posts about Trump or am I accurately reflecting current reality?

If you want to take that question further I suggest we do that via PM.  I would be more than happy to enlighten.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

27 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I'm going to set aside the entirety of your post, for now, and focus on the most important statement within it.  Not only is it the most important statement but it's a kernel of absolute truth.  You are to be commended for arriving at that most accurate of conclusions.

". . . we have absolute freedom in terms of thoughts . . ."

No truer words have ever been spoken.  Now here's the money question: What do thoughts do?  In order to avoid having the question sound too ambiguous I'll ask it in a more pointed way.  Do thoughts create real effects?

The short answer to your final question for me is, based on available information, no i.e. no mechanism whereby I think something and it influences the behaviour or actions of people or objects. If I be nice, positive, good, bad, ugly to people it influences how they will treat me, but if I sit in a laboratory and try and levitate something, or try and influence the universe to give me good parking space, or make other good things happen, I don't think it will work. 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Fat is a type of crazy

[Tippaporn]

On 8/19/2022 at 6:05 AM, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Freedom of Choice (2009 Remaster) - YouTube

Okay, so you're showing off your good taste in music.    Freedom Of Choice wouldn't be my preferential choice (granted, it helped make your point).  I'd prefer this one, off of that same '78 Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo! LP.

Perhaps that album title is a fit for this thread, too?  Perhaps we've been thoroughly and grossly mistaken all this time in that God created Man when in fact he did not.  He created Devo.  And we are all Devo!  Anyway, it's something to ponder on in this mystery we call life. 
 

 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

Okay, so you're showing off your good taste in music.    Freedom Of Choice wouldn't be my preferential choice (granted, it helped make your point).  I'd prefer this one, off of that same '78 Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo! LP.

Perhaps that album title is a fit for this thread, too?  Perhaps we've been thoroughly and grossly mistaken all this time in that God created Man when in fact he did not.  He created Devo.  And we are all Devo!  Anyway, it's something to ponder on in this mystery we call life. 
 

 

Love this album. The idea that just like everything else in the universe we are falling apart i.e. devolving not evolving.

Can recommend the two Hardcore albums that came out which has stuff from 1974 to 1977 that didn't make the cut. You would think they might poorly compare but they are both the best. 

[Tippaporn]

On 8/19/2022 at 10:59 AM, mauGR1 said:

Hope the weather will be fine soon, see you mate ????

Thanks, mauGR1, for the well wishes.  At least someone here cared.    It was over and done in two days.  A scratchy throat the first day (the worst for me) and a feeling of supreme tiredness the next.  And back to jumping jacks the following day. 

[Tippaporn]

2 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Love this album. The idea that just like everything else in the universe we are falling apart i.e. devolving not evolving.

Can recommend the two Hardcore albums that came out which has stuff from 1974 to 1977 that didn't make the cut. You would think they might poorly compare but they are both the best. 

Please do so.  I'm game.  This thread could do with a good and apropos tune now and then. 

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Thanks, mauGR1, for the well wishes.  At least someone here cared.    It was over and done in two days.  A scratchy throat the first day (the worst for me) and a feeling of supreme tiredness the next.  And back to jumping jacks the following day. 

You're welcome, but where's the "absolute freedom of thought " when we are tied to a physical body ?

Health is indeed the greatest wealth, as it allows the "tuning" of the thoughts. 

Thought is potentially free, but in different ways for different people in different moments in different places imho.

[Tippaporn]

5 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

<snip>

The idea that just like everything else in the universe we are falling apart i.e. devolving not evolving.

<snip>

My theory on the devolving is based on idea construction.  Some ideas work well and others don't.  If an idea is in alignment with the workings of reality then all is well.  When it departs from the way reality works then you can rest assured that problems will follow.  That's the tell.  The current set of mass accepted ideas are so off the rails that problems keep amassing.  Men can be girls and girls can be men is a good example of how far we've gone in the direction of fallacious ideas.  To top it off, ignoring problems make them worse.

From my 60,000 foot view I see it all as a clarion call that we need to drastically change the ideas (beliefs) we hold.  And start accepting those ideas which are a true reflection of reality.  There's no such thing as fate . . . we can go either way.  I do have my preferred choice, though.  I do what I can towards that end.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

26 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Please do so.  I'm game.  This thread could do with a good and apropos tune now and then. 

At the risk of being accused of going seriously off topic here are 2 songs.

Social Fools from Hardcore No 1  About how freedom can be limited by our own actions and inactions.

 

If you obey society's rules
You will be society's fools
You'll obey and then disobey
You'll disobey but then you'll obey
You thought your mom and dad were fools
You never wanted to listen in school
Now your mind won't go where you want to take it
You got a ride but you're not gonna make it

DEVO - Social Fools - 1978 - YouTube

 

Bottled Up from hardcore No 2 About how our health can be affected by our inhibitions and lack of freedom

 

Doctors say you ain't got long to live
Nurse say you ain't got much to give

Don't listen to your doctor
Don't play up to the nurse

Wave goodbye to your doctor
Just because you're bottled up
Just because you're bottled up
You're gotta get unbottled up

 

Devo "Bottled Up" - YouTube

Edited August 23, 2022 by Fat is a type of crazy

[Tippaporn]

43 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

The short answer to your final question for me is, based on available information, no i.e. no mechanism whereby I think something and it influences the behaviour or actions of people or objects. If I be nice, positive, good, bad, ugly to people it influences how they will treat me, but if I sit in a laboratory and try and levitate something, or try and influence the universe to give me good parking space, or make other good things happen, I don't think it will work. 

Energy: Energy is the basis of the Universe.

Ideas: Ideas are mental transformations of energy by an entity into physical reality.

 

The first statement makes the claim that everything is, in essence, at base, energy.  I think that concept is not objectionable to anyone here.  Energy can never be destroyed, only transformed.  That's another concept which, I believe, few would disagree.

The second statement is the key. Thought is a synonym of idea.  As is belief.  What that statement is saying is that we transform our thoughts (energy) and that transformed energy is then manifest into the medium of physical reality.

Following that logic through to conclusion means that what we are dealing with is not mind over matter but mind creating matter.

So, my contention here is that the process of transforming our thoughts (energy) into both objects and events is what we do but are not aware of doing.  Just as we are usually consciously unaware of natural bodily processes, such as breathing, which we can become consciously aware of anytime we wish to do so, the natural process of creation with which we are involved is something we are equally unaware of.  Until that moment when we choose to become consciously aware of it.  That, my friends, is a total game changer of unimaginable consequence.

Think it can't be done?  If your answer is "no" I have a Cheshire grin for you.   I also have plenty of explanations as to how it works for any who have an ear. 

 

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

You're welcome, but where's the "absolute freedom of thought " when we are tied to a physical body ?

Health is indeed the greatest wealth, as it allows the "tuning" of the thoughts. 

Thought is potentially free, but in different ways for different people in different moments in different places imho.

We are free to be here.  Or not.  That is our choice.  That much should be clear.  Every reality has it boundaries.  These are accepted.  But within those boundaries exist the means and the freedom to create anything we wish.  The extent of our freedom in this reality is not well known (and again I'm donning my Cheshire cat grin as I write that).  I can say that it is much vaster than most are aware of.  But again, there are boundaries.  You cannot, for example, lose a limb and regenerate it.

Thought is indeed free.  But, and this is imperatively important, it does come with consequences.  Always.  That is something that one cannot get around.  It is true to say, therefore, that justice is always being served.  Not in the hereafter but in the here and now.  You cannot avoid the reality that you yourself create.

[Tippaporn]

On 8/19/2022 at 4:14 PM, Hummin said:

Homo sapiens genetic mistake was the verbal communication, understanding and later managed to put the communication in to written language. Or maybe not? The more I read, understand, see, the more I appreciate my time on this planet earth. And that is the most important discovery I have made in my life. Second the love for the absolutely beautifully nature and dangers connected to live a life where you get out in the nature alone, and challenge yourself and manage the fear of truly living, the risk involving making a step in to the unknown, for an example jumping off a cliff and fly down to the valley and landing safe, and repeat it. 
 

The journey to the top itself, discovering the wild life, the geology, knowing the history of this planet, and add difficulties like weather, snow, ice, and still manage to do it, even loosing friends on the journey, made it worth it. 
 

Its in our genes, to manage the extreme, and conquer fear. 
 

Of course, my extremes is little to what my ancestors have faced, and that is my advise to you, bring your wisdom, your ancestors experiences, and be ready for your next journey. If there is any, you will need it. 

A very nice post expressing the love and gusto for life.  Hat's off to you, Hummin.  May all your landings be safe (and they are even when they're not).

[Tippaporn]

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

I'll need to address this in a separate post.

The sky is blue.  That statement is not a statement rooted in bias.  It's a statement which accurately reflects current reality.  Am I biased in my posts about Trump or am I accurately reflecting current reality?

If you want to take that question further I suggest we do that via PM.  I would be more than happy to enlighten.

I take your reaction as a hard pass. 

[mauGR1]

15 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

We are free to be here.  Or not.  That is our choice.  That much should be clear.  Every reality has it boundaries.  These are accepted.  But within those boundaries exist the means and the freedom to create anything we wish.  The extent of our freedom in this reality is not well known (and again I'm donning my Cheshire cat grin as I write that).  I can say that it is much vaster than most are aware of.  But again, there are boundaries.  You cannot, for example, lose a limb and regenerate it.

Thought is indeed free.  But, and this is imperatively important, it does come with consequences.  Always.  That is something that one cannot get around.  It is true to say, therefore, that justice is always being served.  Not in the hereafter but in the here and now.  You cannot avoid the reality that you yourself create.

Thanks for clarifying, i agree. 

[Tippaporn]

On 8/18/2022 at 11:05 AM, VincentRJ said:

Okay! I'll address the point I've highlighted in your above comment. I also care whether or not any claim makes sense. The whole of scientific enquiry is based upon 'making sense of things'. However, scientists are also humans with flaws and biases and sometimes assume a degree of certainty about a theory which doesn't warrant such certainty without the true methodology of science having been applied.

 

Many issues remain uncertain, which places them in the category of 'hypothesis', because it's often not possible to apply the full 'methodology of science', due to the long time scales involved for results to be observed, and also due to the complexity of the situation with so many interacting forces, many of which might be unknown.

 

When discussing such issues which have a degree of uncertainty, there is also the problem of the exaggerated and distorted reporting of the science by journalists.

 

For example, I've seen it repeated many times in this thread that The Big Bang 'hypothesis/theory' is nonsense because something cannot be created from nothing. Therefore, there must be something, such as a Creator God, or Intelligent Designer.

 

However, the Big Bang hypothesis/theory does not state that the universe was created from nothing. I'll quote again from the Phys.org news article I linked to earlier.
"The Big Bang hypothesis states that all of the current and past matter in the Universe came into existence at the same time, roughly 13.8 billion years ago. At this time, all matter was compacted into a very small ball with infinite density and intense heat called a Singularity."

 

Infinite density and intense heat is not nothing. It might be difficult for some people to imagine how the entire universe could be compressed into such a small particle as a singularity, but a good analogy would be to hold a large block of polystyrene foam in one hand, and compare the weight with a very small block of lead held in the other hand, then imagine if those difference in 'weight per volume' were extrapolated trillions upon trillions upon trillions of times.

 

"As far as the search for the answer to the origins of life my contention, which I cannot overemphasise, is this:  that in their search science is necessarily relying on many assumptions to be true; and which I deem to be false.  Perhaps foremost is the assumption that physical reality is the one and only reality in all of existence.
Your cherished scientific method is wholly dependent on a reality which is physical in nature.  If it is true that other realities exist and that not all are physical then in those realms which are not physically based the scientific method would be quite meaningless.  This should be quite logical."

 

Addressing another of your points that I've highlighted above, 'what do you mean by a physical reality'?
Do you agree with the following definition of a physical property?

 

"A physical property is any property that is measurable, whose value describes a state of a physical system."

 

Isn't it obvious that no-one can be aware of anything that cannot be measured in some manner or to some degree, whether they are a scientist or not? Science not only specialises in a great precision of measurement, but also the measurement of 'things' that are invisible and undetectable to anyone without the appropriate scientific instrument.

 

Do you believe that a Guru, whilst sitting down meditating on a universal consciousness, is aware of the multitude of radio waves, and other electro-magnetic waves of various frequencies, that are passing through his body?

 

I've not seen any research that shows any human can feel or detect Radio Waves, X-rays, or Gamma Rays that are passing through his body and head, yet we are expected to believe that certain Gurus can detect a universal consciousness beyond the capabilities of current science. ????

 

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not against anyone hypothesising that there might exist some sort of universal consciousness, as a result of personal feelings experienced whilst meditating, or even as a result of intellectual speculation. However, such claims can be no more than a hypothesis, or a belief, or a Quale, until they are verified using the 'methodology of science'.

 

For the sake of clarity, I'll also point out that Science is of the general opinion that the photons that make up the electromagnetic spectrum, have no mass and no weight. They are therefore not 'matter'. But those non-material photons are essential for all life as we know it. Even if some creatures appear to thrive in total darkness, the food they eat needs photons to grow. This process is called 'photosynthesis'. In other words, life is dependent on non-material sources. ????

You wrote a long post, VincentRJ, and I appreciate it.  It deserves more of a response.

I'm happy to hear that you, too, demand that things make sense.  I think all of us here prefer that.

The comment I'd like to make regarding science's proofs, theories and hypotheses and their glacial march to the "truth" of it all is that for most of us we have a limited amount of time in this world.  The pace at which science advances (not counting the number of steps they walk back) will mean that if we were to wait for science to figure life out our great-great-great-(to the power of 100's? 1,000's ?)-grand kids will have long been dead and buried.  We don't have the luxury of time that science has. 

 

As far as the revised Big Bang theory that changed from the universe being created from nothingness to that of a small, indescribably condensed ball have you considered the medium in which this unbelievably (excuse the pun) compressed, universe-containing ball existed?  Was that medium nothingness?  And if it existed in nothingness was the nothingness larger than the universe which was ejected from this explosion?  For it had to expand to somewhere, I would think.

Maybe, if you allow me, I can assist in coming up with a hypothesis.  This ball existed on the other side of a black hole and emerged out of it.  Sounds sensible?  Or maybe a white hole?  I'm rather leaning towards a plaid hole, as was proven in the movie Spaceballs that things can go plaid when things approach Ludicrous Speed. 

Also, have scientists calculated the size of this ball?  Beach ball sized?  Football sized?  Golf ball sized?  Pin head sized?  Just joking. 

Sorry, VincentRJ, I couldn't help but poke some fun.

Getting back to utmost, deadly, Thai despised seriousness, you ask, "Addressing another of your points that I've highlighted above, 'what do you mean by a physical reality'?"

 

Physical reality is what we term as objective reality.  The same objective reality which science deals with.  Within the post to which you replied is a mention of mine alluding to realities which are not physically based; or non-objective.  Matter, as we know it, does not exist there.  Nor space.  Nor time.  If that state of being, or existence, is difficult to imagine then I'd ask you to consider subjective reality.  Time can be stretched or condensed.  Feelings, for instance, are not physical.  Nor are dreams.  Or ideas.  Or consciousness itself (which is why I have to laugh at those ultra smart folks who, in their delusional desire to cheat the Grim Reaper, believe they can "upload" their consciousness to a computer when they haven't even a clue as to the location of their consciousness).

I've said it before and I'll repeat myself in case you've either missed it or forgotten it; consciousness creates form and not the other way around.  Physical reality is one such form.  And the various forms are literally infinite.

And one last comment.  You wrote, "However, such claims can be no more than a hypothesis, or a belief, or a Quale, until they are verified using the 'methodology of science'."  Again, I'll remind you that for those folks who would like their answers sometime before their future unborn are stardust then we'll go it alone without waiting an eternity, if ever, for science to provide those answers. 

[Tippaporn]

I'm about caught up with responding to replies, I think.  Fortunately I've noticed, however, that my post count for today totals 13.  That's an unlucky number.  It could be as fateful as crossing paths with a black cat.  I can't take the chance of that causing some sort of fluke accident to befall me.  So even though I've nothing more to say there is, coincidentally, an idea that popped into my head of what I can use for this 14th post.  Boy, what are the odds of that?  Thanks be to  Providence!

The Beatles with Across The Universe off of their final '70 Let It Be album.  Happy travels fellow star trippers.  Say "hello" to God for me if any of you happen to run across him/her/it.  And look for me in your telescope, VincentRJ.  I'll be the brightest thing you'll see in the heavens, waving back atcha. 

 

 

[Hummin]

5 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

A very nice post expressing the love and gusto for life.  Hat's off to you, Hummin.  May all your landings be safe (and they are even when they're not).

Thank you, on rehab now away from overdose of adrenalin, and retarded retired ????

 

Do more normal crazy things now, and try to stay alive at this wonderful wonderful planet we are cruising space at 107 000 km/h around the space..

 

Just came to mind this song by Nick Cave when he did a cold turkey of his drugs

 

 

 

[VincentRJ]

11 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Okay, I'll stop beating the dead horse over definitions and try a different tact.

From my understanding, based on what you wrote and your offered definitions, you are saying that you believe there is a cause for all things.  Can we take that further to say you also believe there is a reason for or purpose behind any cause?

Say you were in a hypothetical automobile accident.  You slid into the vehicle in front of you due to an icy patch in the road.  The technical cause would obviously be the ice, thereby neutering your braking system.  Would you be able to identify and assign a reason or purpose for the accident?

The concepts of 'reason' and 'purpose' are human constructs and thought processes.  We use our capacity for 'reason' to determine what was the cause of an accident, for example, or the causes of 'changes in climate'.

 

'Purpose' is a quality that is fundamental to all life, even plants and trees.. The inanimate asteroid that hit the Earth about 65 million years ago and destroyed the dinosaurs, according to the application of science and reason, did not have a purpose. An asteroid is not a living organism.

 

Regarding your example of the car sliding on an icy road into another car. The application of reason determines that the cause of the accident was a patch of ice on the road which prevented the brakes from being effective.. Perhaps the car in front had stopped at traffic lights and the car behind was going too fast for the conditions and wasn't able to stop quickly enough because of the ice.

 

However, accidents have a cause, but not a purpose. If you want to attribute a purpose to the accident then you would have to describe it as an 'apparent' accident that was done intentionally. Perhaps the driver of the car behind was following the car in front and intended to smash into the car, using the icy road as an excuse.