Do you believe in God and why

[notmyself]

29 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If you want to count that as a religion, yes. I call it a haven for fruitcakes.

 

It's a good example of how gullible a species we are.... that and Mormonism.

[Skallywag]

On 4/18/2019 at 2:15 PM, Sunmaster said:

Spirituality focuses more on the direct experience you can have with the Divine

On 4/18/2019 at 2:15 PM, Sunmaster said:

I love science, but I don't believe it has all the answers 

 

"That which is really divine is beyond all form and any thought, but the practice of divine presence is a way to awaken our consciousness to the continuous perception of the sacred and infinite life of which we are part."

 

This idea "a divine presence" that is "beyond all form and any thought" is just too esoteric and illogical for me to fathom. 

 

Science does not purport to "have all the answers" but is logical and truthful in it's endeavours and explanations

 

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

The Jews, Amish, Mormons, Catholics, and even Muslims in my country etc., can shun excommunicate and banish (other than the honor killings of the religion of peace) but cannot deprive your freedom or impose any legal penalty. Freedom of religion = freedom from religion too.

Many religions in Australia get taxpayer funded financial support for their schools, or do not pay rates on the property they own. As an agnostic of long standing, I feel somewhat aggrieved the same concessions have not been extended to me.

[notmyself]

4 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

The Jews, Amish, Mormons, Catholics, and even Muslims in my country etc., can shun excommunicate and banish (other than the honor killings of the religion of peace) but cannot deprive your freedom or impose any legal penalty. Freedom of religion = freedom from religion too.

 

Oops. Hit the quote button to mention Amish before noticing you had already listed it.

 

I'm not bothered what people believe nor should I be but that ends when their belief intrudes on the belief of others or when they demand respect for such belief. Believe you are a chicken sandwich for all I can but don't use that belief to affect my life nor expect respect for it. Quite simple really.

[notmyself]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Many religions in Australia get taxpayer funded financial support for their schools, or do not pay rates on the property they own. As an agnostic of long standing, I feel somewhat aggrieved the same concessions have not been extended to me.

 

Have to prove charitable status I expect.  

 

 

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, Date Masamune said:

“Cat Stevens” who claimed a neath death experience in the Malibu surf? Every decent thing about religion such charity and social work etc is indistinguishable form secular humanism. God exists in the human mind where it was created. Most people who hear voices and have visions would be diagnosed as ill by a Psychiatrist, but this delusion is almost a pre-requisite for inclusion in public life in America and many other countries. That is the silliest thing about it.



 

 

4 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

And almost always

Thus the words above, excerpted from the second sentence of my post. Let's just say vast majority. And although Cat did convert to Islam, from what I just read...it wasn't the near drowning and reaching out to "God" for help that gave him an Islamic revelation, but rather a copy of the Koran (Qur'an) given to him by his brother sometime after. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Skeptic7

[sweatalot]

I think we are all deluded.

Part of the delusion is believing in a God outside ourselves.

Or another one just denie the possibilty that god might exist.

 

We experience the world in our consciousness and interpret it using what we have been taught, or better implanted, by our parents, and the people and circumstances around us - in particular during childhood.

So we create our own world in our consciousness as a copy of what  has been implanted. May be looking for a God outside of us - and this way creating one - is part of it. 

 

If God exists isn't he/she consciousness?
And us -aren't we consciousness, too?

 

May be we should look for God not outside but inside ourselves? 

Even the bible tells:
"Do you not realize that Jesus Christ (whoever that is) is in you? (Second Corinthians 13:5) 

But that's not what the religions emphazise

There are religions, secular powerful organisations who want to make us believe what "their god" is telling.
And there are individual spiritual  people - they emphasize their experience, and they only believe what they experience
 

[gunderhill]

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

The same applies when Spirit reveals itself to you in form of a vision. 

Just  line after  line of  mumbo jumbo thats  all  your'e  saying, no evidence is  being shown and when requested we  appear to  not be able to "see" or  "listen"

Show me some relevant repeatable facts and stop quoting  what can only be described as total crap.

[notmyself]

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The chances of a Muslim turning to another form of religion is quite low, because apostasy is dealt with in many Muslim countries under criminal law, ranging in penalties up to the death sentence in more conservative nations. I'm not aware of any other religion that penalises conversion to another religion.

 

Luke 19:27 "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”

 

[mauGR1]

10 hours ago, gunderhill said:

Just  line after  line of  mumbo jumbo thats  all  your'e  saying, no evidence is  being shown and when requested we  appear to  not be able to "see" or  "listen"

Show me some relevant repeatable facts and stop quoting  what can only be described as total crap.

You can agree or disagree with other posters, but you and some other 'enlightened' atheist, have built a wall of ignorance around yourself.

Do you believe in thoughts ? Do you think they are real ? Pls, show me a thought, instead of insulting people who dare to think outside the box.

Your tone and attitude show that, so far, you are not adding anything worth to the discussion, and i am not sure that you have any idea of what is a scientific method of investigation.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

We know some facts of history, but we have no way to know how history would have been taking god and religion out of the equation.

There is no way to change the past.

I think that we live in the "best possible world".

Would have made no difference at all. Religion was just the excuse powerful men used to conquer other races and steal their land. If there was no religion they'd have invented some other reason.

[marcusarelus]

18 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

When the time is right, you'll understand, until then, enjoy your life

I've died and come back.  Seen my child die.  Been in life and death situations both at war and with nature.  Seen my children born.  Seen my parents die.  I wonder when the time will be right?  Maybe when the men from Mars arrive? 

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Would have made no difference at all. Religion was just the excuse powerful men used to conquer other races and steal their land. If there was no religion they'd have invented some other reason.

That's what i'm thinking too, as soon as an ideology is born, someone is ready to use it to manipulate others.

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I've died and come back.  Seen my child die.  Been in life and death situations both at war and with nature.  Seen my children born.  Seen my parents die.  I wonder when the time will be right?  Maybe when the men from Mars arrive? 

You'll keep wondering until the time is right, not sure about the men from Mars though.

[Odysseus123]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Would have made no difference at all. Religion was just the excuse powerful men used to conquer other races and steal their land. If there was no religion they'd have invented some other reason.

As they often did..and do..

 

However I do hold to the Tolstoyan view that individual powerful people represent a coalescing of political/economic/social and cultural forces-as often pushed from behind as leading from the front.

 

Nor do I see that religion was somehow just invented by a few powerful people to keep the common herd on the straight and narrow as it certainly evolved over time to reflect the complexities (and anxieties)of the societies and cultures in which they were embedded.

[marcusarelus]

21 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

You'll keep wondering until the time is right, not sure about the men from Mars though.

No.  I've seen too many people die to have any doubts about it.  Nothing after.  Just death. 

[Sunmaster]

11 hours ago, gunderhill said:

Just  line after  line of  mumbo jumbo thats  all  your'e  saying, no evidence is  being shown and when requested we  appear to  not be able to "see" or  "listen"

Show me some relevant repeatable facts and stop quoting  what can only be described as total crap.

1. I have told you you can easily find proof for yourself, yet you keep asking me to provide proof for you on a silver plate and spoon feed you. This would not work anyways, as you say, you don't believe in what others tell you. 

2. I'm not your personal google. If your thirst for knowledge were genuine, you would get off your lazy ass and actually do something about it. 

3. Whatever you decide you do with your life, have fun, respect and and be kind to others.

[mauGR1]

46 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

No.  I've seen too many people die to have any doubts about it.  Nothing after.  Just death. 

No, i don't think so, they live in your memory at least, and sometimes that memory stays alive for thousands years.

About the subject of reincarnation, i don't have any idea.

[mauGR1]

51 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Whatever you decide you do with your life, have fun, respect and and be kind to others.

.. Sometimes they sound like inquisition bigot ayatollahs, don't they

[Sunmaster]

52 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

No.  I've seen too many people die to have any doubts about it.  Nothing after.  Just death. 

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences. However, what you've seen is the death of the physical body. Nobody came back to tell you what comes after that.

[CharlieH]

Just now, Sunmaster said:

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences. However, what you've seen is the death of the physical body. Nobody came back to tell you what comes after that.

And anyone who claims they have is rarely believed anyway

[transam]

6 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences. However, what you've seen is the death of the physical body. Nobody came back to tell you what comes after that.

True, I hope the zillions of ants I have topped don't come back looking for me as Cobras....????

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

True, I hope the zillions of ants I have topped don't come back looking for me as Cobras....????

Women, i heard they come back as blood-thirsty women, be warned

[Date Masamune]

1. I have told you you can easily find proof for yourself, yet you keep asking me to provide proof for you on a silver plate and spoon feed you. This would not work anyways, as you say, you don't believe in what others tell you. 
2. I'm not your personal google. If your thirst for knowledge were genuine, you would get off your lazy ass and actually do something about it. 
3. Whatever you decide you do with your life, have fun, respect and and be kind to others.

I don’t think about gods but as for proof I would accept one of these fantastic spectacles so common in ancient times. A talking snake or winged angels alighting should do the trick. A giant face in the sky saying “Boo”. Why does nothing like that happen anymore? We’re more likely to witness the ARRIVAL of aliens in a spaceship like a sci-fi movie.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gunderhill]

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

1. I have told you you can easily find proof for yourself, yet you keep asking me to provide proof for you on a silver plate and spoon feed you. This would not work anyways, as you say, you don't believe in what others tell you. 

2. I'm not your personal google. If your thirst for knowledge were genuine, you would get off your lazy ass and actually do something about it. 

3. Whatever you decide you do with your life, have fun, respect and and be kind to others.

Ok so to finalise  , you cant provide  any real  facts/evidence at all, any thats  peer  reviewed and scientific not  just mumbo  jumbo from similar mumbo  jumbo ley line, chai worshipping sites, what you can do is  quote  vagueness and nothingness, but thats  par for the course when questioning such "beliefs"

[gunderhill]

3 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Pls, show me a thought, instead of insulting people who dare to think outside the box.

I have insulted  no one, I have insulted what he is saying, theres a  big difference.

[gunderhill]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

No, i don't think so, they live in your memory at least, and sometimes that memory stays alive for thousands years.

About the subject of reincarnation, i don't have any idea.

Memories are only as  old as the last time you accessed that memory, you are only  remembering your last memory not the original, herein lies a  huge place for  error.

[mauGR1]

11 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

Memories are only as  old as the last time you accessed that memory, you are only  remembering your last memory not the original, herein lies a  huge place for  error.

That's probably true, but my point was another.

My point was that if thoughts are real, the object of the thought is real.

( i could go further and say that gods exist because lots of people think that they exist, but i will spare you that)

[gunderhill]

4 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

That's probably true, but my point was another.

My point was that if thoughts are real, the object of the thought is real.

( i could go further and say that gods exist because lots of people think that they exist, but i will spare you that)

I think Gods a  tub of lard  called  Beryl, does  that make it real.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

That's probably true, but my point was another.

My point was that if thoughts are real, the object of the thought is real.

( i could go further and say that gods exist because lots of people think that they exist, but i will spare you that)

That is humans stuff....They think to much....The rest of Earths creatures don't do that stuff do they, they just get on with life/survival....????